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Southern Heel posted:Loudness Talk!
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Jun 9, 2014 03:51
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I played an HT Club 40 at Guitar Center and I think I'm in love with it
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Jun 9, 2014 04:30
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Southern Heel posted:I'm having a real crisis of identity with my guitar playing at the moment: I'm enjoying playing more than ever but nothing feels right with my current setup! Sound-wise I'm looking for something between NWOBHM and Motley Crue/Kiss/Skid Row. If possible I'd like the ability to push it into that chugga-chugga Metallica/Megadeth style, and the ability to get that crusty stoner-metal sound is a big bonus. I seem to have gotten myself wrapped up with a totally inappropriate guitar (which is a separate story) and an amp that just can't keep up: Before you get or try a new amp, spend a while on the not-boosted channel instead. It is much more natural sounding (i have a feeling the channel switch introduces some diode clipping) and I think better voiced for actual heavy music. If you have a cheap overdrive pedal put that in front with very little gain and as much volume as you can (an sd1 or some sort of tubescreamer clone would be perfect). I really like this little amp, and have used that channel for recording heavier stuff than you're asking about. If you're still not happy, you might need to make a jump to a guitar with humbuckers. Having said that the dark terror sounds really, really good. Sockington posted:I got an amp for $5 at a church charity thing today. Man I love these old rear end simple amps. I keep missing out on similar stuff locally, especially for that cheap - I really want one with a couple vintage analog delay and reverb units running into it for 50's/60's style stuff.
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Jun 9, 2014 05:48
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DrChu posted:Where are you measuring the decibel level at? Where the mic would be positioned or where your ears would be? If its where the mic is, it will be less from where you'd be standing, and if even that feels too loud just stand farther away. I'm using an iPhone app, with the iPhone sitting on my office chair. While it's probably not as accurate as a dedicated db-meter it's enough to get a general gist IMO. field balm posted:Before you get or try a new amp, spend a while on the not-boosted channel instead. I've got a Bad Monkey, Grunge, Mooer Rage Machine, and a Fulltone OCD and they all definitely perform better on the clean channel, but in general I've found that 'my' HT-1R just doesn't take pedals very well (at least out of the stock speaker) compared to an old 15" 17w tube amp. Almost certainly due to the speaker size, which I'm looking to remedy as a first port of call. I'm going to revisit the clean channel again tonight and see how things pan out, it certainly gets crunchy and performs better with my HH Yamaha than my SSS Strat. comes along bort posted:There's always iso cabs and attenuators, but a lot of the sound and feel of tube amps comes from a certain volume level where the power section clips and the cab is moving air. 100% agreed - the issue is if that feel is gained at a volume level around 90-95db or 100+, the latter of which is unfortunately unacceptable. philkop posted:Get some ear plugs if your worried. Also non gigging who records? Are you a studio guitarist? I've thought about doing this since I've always been a Jack of all trades master of none kind of player. Honestly to me using ear-plugs would be a sign that I'm going in the wrong direction and clearly biting off more than I can chew. I'm not a gigging guitarist but I do like writing and composing. I don't think I'm ever going to be good enough to be a studio guitarist, but I'm trying hard with both guitar and bass guitar and hopefully the latter will open more doors for me.
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Jun 9, 2014 11:18
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Southern Heel posted:Honestly to me using ear-plugs would be a sign that I'm going in the wrong direction and clearly biting off more than I can chew.
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Jun 9, 2014 12:27
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Earplugs are just a good idea, don't mess up your hearing for no reason. You can buy an amp and a guitar and some poo poo to play around with? Cool you can definitely afford earplugs. You're not "biting off more than you can chew," you're protecting your loving hearing  It's important, and tinnitus is a real pain in the YOU WILL NEVER SLEEP IN A SILENT ROOM AGAIN
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Jun 9, 2014 12:40
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Agreed posted:Earplugs are just a good idea, don't mess up your hearing for no reason. You can buy an amp and a guitar and some poo poo to play around with? Cool you can definitely afford earplugs. You're not "biting off more than you can chew," you're protecting your loving hearing Just turn on a fan for that sweet buffeting effect between the squeals. It's like a tinnitus-tremolo.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:15
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So has anyone looked into or played these yet? http://www.hotoneaudio.com/nanolegacy/ 5w Class AB micro heads with effects loop, direct output, and an EQ section, one is a bass head that's suppose to model a SVT, one is suppose to model an AC30, one is suppose to model a Plexi Super Lead, and one is suppose to model a Rectifier, all for $100 each.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:54
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A Winner is Jew posted:So has anyone looked into or played these yet? That sounds way too awesome to be real haha.
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Jun 9, 2014 16:58
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iostream.h posted:It takes a surprisingly small amount of SPL to cause hearing loss, you're so incredibly wrong here that it's not even funny. I'm very aware of hearing loss issues vis-a-vis concerts and playing too loud, but if I am REQUIRED to play loud enough to possibly cause hearing loss to get a tone out of a given amp (and I won't be gigging with said amp) then then that seems quite backwards, no? I am going to take my HT1-R to the shop this week and try it out with a 1x12, and then A/B it with the different Terrors. Having said that, a Blues Jr, Marshall DSL15, Terror, OR15, AC15, etc. are ALL 15w amps and CLEARLY not every single person gigs with them, there must be usable tones at home levels, right?
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Jun 9, 2014 17:40
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Southern Heel posted:I'm very aware of hearing loss issues vis-a-vis concerts and playing too loud, but if I am REQUIRED to play loud enough to possibly cause hearing loss to get a tone out of a given amp (and I won't be gigging with said amp) then then that seems quite backwards, no? I am going to take my HT1-R to the shop this week and try it out with a 1x12, and then A/B it with the different Terrors. Dirt pedals and preamps, meet forums user Southern Heel. Southern Heel, meet dirt pedals and preamps. Open the wallet and let the good times roll, 'cause what you're describing is the bedroom experience in a nutshell - a shitload of awesome sounding stuff that doesn't require a ton of air moving (but still won't feedback or anything like that unless you DO get that air moving). Got a price range and a desired sound? I have an obscene amount of these things and can point you in a direction if you can give me a hint what you're looking for.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:25
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Dirt posted:That sounds way too awesome to be real haha. 2 of them look to be real enough.  Now If they actually deliver on successfully mimicking the classic heads they're trying to mimic is another story, but for $100 even if it comes close that's impressive. A Winner is Jew fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 18:28
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Kinda want to get a Heart Attack before Metallica sues the poo poo out of them for that logo. Aw who am I kidding nobody can sue a Chinese company for trademark infringement. Southern Heel posted:I'm very aware of hearing loss issues vis-a-vis concerts and playing too loud, but if I am REQUIRED to play loud enough to possibly cause hearing loss to get a tone out of a given amp Wait, are you in a place where you can turn an amp up that loud in the first place? Just put it in another room and shut the doors. You don't actually have to be in the same room with the amp unless you're trying to get a lot of feedback. In which case get some ear plugs like everyone else. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 18:41
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Southern Heel posted:I'm very aware of hearing loss issues vis-a-vis concerts and playing too loud, but if I am REQUIRED to play loud enough to possibly cause hearing loss to get a tone out of a given amp (and I won't be gigging with said amp) then then that seems quite backwards, no? I am going to take my HT1-R to the shop this week and try it out with a 1x12, and then A/B it with the different Terrors. BUT, if you're recording with a mic on a cab and you're trying to keep the volume on the cab low, unless you're in a really nice room you're going to have to jack the gain up on the mic so much that you'll be picking up a ton of other poo poo that you really don't want on tape. Throw in some plugs and jack up the volume a bit. Absolutely unrelated to 'tone' in any way. If you're amplifying at ALL, you're very likely into hearing loss territory in some way or another. Remember that damage starts to occur around 85db and just plain piano practice averages around 90db. Get some of the Etymotics plugs from Amazon for like $15 and just stick 'em in whenever. They're filtered so you don't have that high-end attenuation that a lot of the cheap plugs do. I'm confused about your insistence on a non-gigging amp too, what are you trying to say? No, not everyone gigs a Tiny Terror and not everyone gigs a Plexi either. I play any of my 100w heads at home as much as or more than my low-watt heads and I'm perfectly happy with the sound, but then, I'm not relying on power tube distortion, even live, so I'm happy at pretty much whatever volume. If you want great sound quality at low volume AND also be able to lay down a quality, low-noise track, you should probably look into direct-in options (11 Rack, AxeFx, Kemper, GSP1101, etc) instead of micing a cab. Hell, I love my MP-1 DI every bit as much as I do cranking a big amp when it comes to putting something on tape, so there are a LOT of options there too. Take Agreed up on his offer to pick his brain, dude gets some goofy good sound without EVER having a 'real' amp in line and he's a goofy good font of knowledge regarding preamp style pedals. I'm not trying to argue with you or convince you that you're wrong I'm right etc, but I'm still just kind of confused what your actual concern IS.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:38
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Southern Heel posted:Having said that, a Blues Jr, Marshall DSL15, Terror, OR15, AC15, etc. are ALL 15w amps and CLEARLY not every single person gigs with them, there must be usable tones at home levels, right? Get a Traynor Dark Horse. 2 watt mode (which uses a 12AU7 as a power tube) would be just what you need.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:58
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jwh posted:Get a Traynor Dark Horse. 2 watt mode (which uses a 12AU7 as a power tube) would be just what you need. A little pricier than some of the others, but not by a lot and especially if you look at what it does.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:08
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iostream.h posted:THD Univalve might be optimal based on the fact that he's more into recording and it's got a slew of options for studio use. Aren't they out of production and hard to find?
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Jun 9, 2014 21:34
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jwh posted:Aren't they out of production and hard to find? There's one on eBay for $750 that looks to be in great shape however, but yeah, apparently they are. drat, I'd kind of decided to pick one up myself recently.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:57
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I'm super sad, the last original 10" CTS in my '68 Super Reverb is dying  It might be time to buckle down and buy a set of Webers.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:13
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iostream.h posted:If you're amplifying at ALL, you're very likely into hearing loss territory in some way or another. Remember that damage starts to occur around 85db and just plain piano practice averages around 90db. And drums are around 120dB+ Loud volume is pretty much unavoidable as a musician. I got tinnitus ages ago from high school marching band (100dB is a quiet practice), and I'm surprised hearing protection isn't yet mandated for students and teachers. NIOSH even put out a report on it a couple years ago: http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/hhe/reports/pdfs/2011-0129-3160.pdf That's one of those things where in a couple decades we're gonna look back and wonder how we could've been so barbaric. Alec Bald Snatch fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 22:40
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Considering we're still encouraging high schoolers to give each other brain damage through contact sports, I think widespread gently caress-giving about hearing loss might be more than a few decades away. I'd like to think otherwise. I've felt pretty hypocritical for a while since I evangelize about hearing protection all the time and use it when I play, but then there's audience members six feet in front of me who don't have any hearing protection and here I am turning up so I can be heard over 120dB of drums... I wish there was a way to play energetic music without deafening everyone close enough to enjoy it, but I don't really know what it would be. Drum kits, instrument amplifiers and PAs are all designed to be loud as hell. And people seemingly really enjoy the sensory experience of really loud poo poo. Still, knowing that it's my playing chipping away at someone else's hearing freaks me out a bit. Good for making solos more tasteful though: I just have to think "Is each of these notes really worth the contribution it will make to these peoples' tinnitus in a few years?"
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Jun 9, 2014 22:54
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True, also there's also a whole lot more money behind not changing football.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:18
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A Winner is Jew posted:So has anyone looked into or played these yet? These are solid state right? So they'd be one of chinese pedals modeling those amps with a 5w power amp or something? Eitherway, the videos of the plexi one sound cool - If I can try one out I might have to bite for my birthday. I gotta say I love all the tiny amps coming out - gives bedroom/apartment players a way to have loads of "real" sounds without taking up a whole room with gear! E: goddamnit the heart attack one sounds good too, I need something for getting my melodeathz on as well... field balm fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 02:50
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So what's a good pair to get? I've never when plugs but I think I'm to start. My last jam left my head hurting for the rest of the day. Are the erasers any good? I'd like the lowest profile plugs that don't mess up what I hear. I don't want to be "what!?ing"all of the time. I don't mind spending some money on these if it's something I can use for a long time. Are these mostly permanent or throwaways?
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Jun 10, 2014 19:52
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philkop posted:So what's a good pair to get? I've never when plugs but I think I'm to start. My last jam left my head hurting for the rest of the day. I've also got a custom set made from molds I had my audiologist take, they're a LOT nicer and fit much better but they're an order of magnitude more expensive as well. Those Ety's don't muffle the frequencies you hear so much as just attenuate the volume itself, I've used them onstage, in-studio and at concerts and events where I was an observer. They're easy to clean and pretty damned sturdy too.
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Jun 10, 2014 21:14
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Thank you all for the helpful advice, I went and played through both a DSL15H and a Tiny Terror and both, surprisingly to nobody, were nice sounding even at 'bedroom' volumes, the untenable noise only arrived at >50% volume >60% gain and if it's simply a combination of fine tuning that's fine with me. I appreciate all your tips and suggestions, it has helped greatly.
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Jun 10, 2014 21:22
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I have a little carvin tube amp (v16) That I will eventually swap the speaker of. I am really into the Eminence "Lil Texas" because it will make this amp even lighter and I dig the sound. Thing is I have only ever seen this speaker in 125 Watts. It gets highly recommended for a Blues JR but I have also heard that around double your amp wattage is good for a speaker putting me somewhere in the 20-30 watt range. What gives?
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Jun 11, 2014 13:16
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Being offered an Orange Rockerverb 50 MKII 2 head with the Orange 2-button footswitch for $1,200 (USD). As close to mint as you can get - bedroom only, dozens of hours played, in a non-smoking environment. I already know I like the amp, but I don't know a ton about the used value, so I'm looking to find out if this is a pretty solid price or not. I know it's around $2,200 new for the head and $50 for the switch. I checked eBay but only found one or two comparisons. They're around the same price, but are noticeably more used. Any thoughts?
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Jun 11, 2014 14:24
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philkop posted:I have a little carvin tube amp (v16) That I will eventually swap the speaker of. I am really into the Eminence "Lil Texas" because it will make this amp even lighter and I dig the sound. Thing is I have only ever seen this speaker in 125 Watts. Lower wattage speakers get more breakup as you crank the amp.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:26
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Speaker breakup is not necessarily desirable if that's not the sound you're going for. A lot of cabs are rated for 240 watts which is more than double most heads. If you like the sound of the speaker and you don't care that you're not going to make the amp sound like it's going to explode then don't sweat it.
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Jun 11, 2014 14:40
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hedgecore posted:Any thoughts? That's a great amp, built like a tank too. I loved my 100w MkII, jump on it!
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Jun 11, 2014 14:40
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Declan MacManus posted:Speaker breakup is not necessarily desirable if that's not the sound you're going for. A lot of cabs are rated for 240 watts which is more than double most heads. Since wattage is rated clean, tube amps put out a lot more than what they say when they're actually pushed. For a 100-120W head a 240W cab isn't really that far past the maximum output. When you have the amp turned up and hitting the strings hard, those speakers are definitely getting worked. quote:If you like the sound of the speaker and you don't care that you're not going to make the amp sound like it's going to explode then don't sweat it. True. On the other hand really efficient speakers like those Eminences sound kinda dull with low wattage amps unless you have them turned up pretty far IMHO. I have a 2x12 with a Texas Heat and Swamp Thang, which is something like 225W, and it really sounds best with bigger heads.
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Jun 11, 2014 16:20
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comes along bort posted:Since wattage is rated clean, tube amps put out a lot more than what they say when they're actually pushed. For a 100-120W head a 240W cab isn't really that far past the maximum output. When you have the amp turned up and hitting the strings hard, those speakers are definitely getting worked. Good to know. I think I'll try to cope with my speaker until I'm more sure that I want to switch. I was most excited about the weight reduction.
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Jun 11, 2014 18:53
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So I my carvin v16 as counter to my JC 120. I'll be posting a big write up about it in the next few weeks as it's an all that doesn't get talked about much. But for now what are some ways to run both amps? Someone mentioned a volume pedal to bring in and out the JC. Do you also run a volume on the tube amp? What other cool things can I do since I now have two amps?
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Jun 17, 2014 01:45
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philkop posted:But for now what are some ways to run both amps? Someone mentioned a volume pedal to bring in and out the JC. Do you also run a volume on the tube amp? You can if you want to blend the two or just have the extra control. I usually want a volume pedal anyway. For a while I used an Ernie Ball stereo volume/pan, for fading between them, but there was too much volume drop near the middle so I gave that up. I generally would use a clean tube amp like a Fender, or an Orange with the gain down, distortion via pedal when needed, and use that for my main sound, adding clean JC or fuzz JC to taste, always with the chorus on. Volumes are after the dirt pedals so they get a full signal to work with (can still use guitar volume to clean up vintage fuzz, etc). I never use an a/b box. Either I'll split with a stereo phaser, or the guitar will be wired for stereo, one pickup to each amp. I have an EHx Switch Blade modified to swap the outputs with the foot switch, stereo cable in, two mono outs.
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Jun 17, 2014 08:55
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Gorgar posted:I never use an a/b box. Either I'll split with a stereo phaser, or the guitar will be wired for stereo, one pickup to each amp. I have an EHx Switch Blade modified to swap the outputs with the foot switch, stereo cable in, two mono outs. This seems best for me, do you get that hum everyone talks about when running two amps? Or out of phase problems. There's seems to be a lot of hooplah out there about what should be pretty simple, just a split signal path. I have a RadioShack y cable that gets the job done now but there's not much control. I'd have to walk up to the amp to switch anything. I have no hum issues though. I'd run a reverse of your setup, JC always on with a volume on the tube. I can't get enough of those JC cleans. Don't get me wrong my little 16 watt tube amp has better sounding notes, but I loose the space between then notes compared to the JC. I don't use these chorus much unless I have my acoustic through it. I actually really enjoy the cleans with s little reverb. It's great though because both amps literally have a ton of character but are polar opposites. E: I should note that running both amps at once would be cool for some fat sounds but my main goal is to play these like separate amps... Together. Easily. I do a lot of looper work so I can have one amp playing while I jam on the other. Basically I become two guitarist. philkop fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 15:04
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I think the easiest is literally just adding the dirt amp when you need it and keep the JC120 always on. When you switch from A/B there might be kind of drastic tone change. When you add the second amp on top, you are flavoring the original sound more than replacing it (since both amps will never 'sound' the same, it will almost sound like a different guitarist playing when you switch between them) Just something to try.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:15
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Sockington posted:I think the easiest is literally just adding the dirt amp when you need it and keep the JC120 always on. When you switch from A/B there might be kind of drastic tone change. When you add the second amp on top, you are flavoring the original sound more than replacing it (since both amps will never 'sound' the same, it will almost sound like a different guitarist playing when you switch between them) Good advice. I was sleepy and didn't explain it well. When I switch the the dirt amp the JC will be looping rhythm and melody so there will be no odd changing of the character just out of nowhere, it will be like a second guitarist started playing over me. I've gotten an amazing blend between the two by looping the guitar though JC and then unplugging the guitar and plugging it manually into the tube. Great sound I just want to make this process more fluid in a jam. It depends on the situation, if I am solo or the only guitarist this is the setup I'd like. I don't play out yet but if I were to I probably wouldn't get a chance to loop much so running both at once for the interesting fat mixed tone would be best.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:22
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philkop posted:This seems best for me, do you get that hum everyone talks about when running two amps? Or out of phase problems. There's seems to be a lot of hooplah out there about what should be pretty simple, just a split signal path. You'll probably be all right if you aren't getting hum now. It seems to depend somewhat on the amps. I had great results with a bunch of combinations including Orange, Fender, Roland, and Eden. Two pairings stood out as not working: dual Fender Supers hummed kind of annoyingly, and the Engls just hissed like mad when paired with anything else. For what you're doing, I probably wouldn't bother with a volume pedal. It seems like you want one amp at a time and a clean transition between them, so maybe an a/b/y would be the thing. I use a volume pedal so I can vary the amount of extra chorus guitar, for instance in leads or to highlight a riff, and when the delay is on, I have the option to give it a signal that has no attack so it's less distracting when it repeats.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:23
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Gorgar posted:I use a volume pedal so I can vary the amount of extra chorus guitar, for instance in leads or to highlight a riff Makes a lot of sense of you do a lot of lead stuff. Adds a whole new set of expressive options. I'll make a cheap aby ( probably with kind of tuner built in or at least the option to run one always on regardless of which amps are on.) What makes sense to me is just an on off stomp for each amp and maybe an internal toggle for dual mono vs stereo out. I'll be putting a piezo system in my strat eventually which I might rig to be one side of the stereo signal. Better idea. On/off switch for each amp each with another stomp to select left or right channel. theoretically I could choose piezo or magnetic to either or both amp in any combination. I'll try to borrow a volume pedal to see if it fits my needs but it's sounding less like my style from your post. Thanks!
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Jun 17, 2014 19:54
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