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BlitzBlast posted:The MMO had Krillin and Tien as the new Turtle and Crane Hermits, so I would say they're about equally skilled. I've never played it, but I've read a bit about it on the Dragon Ball wiki and what they did with the setting seems like it was really cool.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:00
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Momomo posted:The easiest way I deem Krillin as the strongest is compare the amount of fights they've actually won. Tien beat the poo poo out of vegeta junior (the saibaman) as well. Krillin meanwhile got to beat up on some of freeza's henchmen. And... Yeah that's about it. He beats on some poor battery at the 25th Tourny.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:13
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I have yet to watch/read much of Dragonball, and hearing that people like Tien and even Yajirobe get to actually like, do something is mind boggling.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:18
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Momomo posted:The easiest way I deem Krillin as the strongest is compare the amount of fights they've actually won. Tien handily defeated a Saibaman before Yamcha was killed.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:22
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Didn't Krillin kill 4 Saibamen at once?
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Jun 9, 2014 22:25
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Momomo posted:I have yet to watch/read much of Dragonball, and hearing that people like Tien and even Yajirobe get to actually like, do something is mind boggling. Did you, and by extension everybody else who didn't watch Dragonall, never asked yourself who all these characters are and what they actually do?. I mean, Krillin has a pretty big role on Namek, but the rest really does nothing but train offscreen until to stand on the sideline the entire time. And they never actually explain the connection between them and Son Goku, so wasn't that confusing as gently caress?
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Jun 9, 2014 22:32
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e X posted:Did you, and by extension everybody else who didn't watch Dragonall, never asked yourself who all these characters are and what they actually do?. Are you really gonna care about that when you're a kid/teenager? You're there to watch muscular men punch lasers at monsters.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:34
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e X posted:Did you, and by extension everybody else who didn't watch Dragonall, never asked yourself who all these characters are and what they actually do?. I did, sort of, but the show certainly never gave them time to shine, so I never bothered caring about them all that much.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:37
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Momomo posted:I have yet to watch/read much of Dragonball, and hearing that people like Tien and even Yajirobe get to actually like, do something is mind boggling. Yajirobe is a loving badass and straight up as strong as (maybe a little stronger than) Goku in the King Piccolo saga when he shows up. He just never, ever does anything. I mean I guess he trains with Kami a bit but I think he just ate some chicken wings all day.
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Jun 9, 2014 22:50
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Prison Warden posted:Yajirobe is a loving badass and straight up as strong as (maybe a little stronger than) Goku in the King Piccolo saga when he shows up. He just never, ever does anything. I mean I guess he trains with Kami a bit but I think he just ate some chicken wings all day. Uh, Yajirobe took down Vegeta, so I think he's the real savior of the Earth.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:36
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They aren't saiyans so they're all equally useless.
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Jun 9, 2014 23:54
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Yamcha may have said that Krillin was the strongest human in order to save face. If Krillin is the strongest human in the world, Yamcha being weaker than him is less embarrassing.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:02
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Momomo posted:I have yet to watch/read much of Dragonball, and hearing that people like Tien and even Yajirobe get to actually like, do something is mind boggling. Even Yamcha was a match for Goku when he was first introduced.
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Jun 10, 2014 00:08
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Silver2195 posted:Even Yamcha was a match for Goku when he was first introduced. Didn't Goku not have food for like 3 days when they fought?
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Jun 10, 2014 00:35
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Kild posted:Didn't Goku not have food for like 3 days when they fought? Yeah, and Yamcha got wrecked right after Goku finished eating, so his only achievement was beating up a starving twelve-year old Goku. While he was sixteen. People joke about Yamcha, but he really was a chump for pretty much the entire series.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:17
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Guy got to the quarterfinals in...three different World Tournaments? He may be a chump, but he was consistently one of the eight strongest in the world back in Dragonball. He did get beaten in the quarterfinals in all of three of those, though.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:32
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Well that was back when losing to God wasn't that demeaning.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:39
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Well, encouraged by this thread i found myself watching a few of the DBZ movies and specials. The trunks one was alright, nicely filled that bit of backstory. Found myself pleasantly suprised by Fusion Reborn.  Had a good mix of slapstick and the fights were fun to watch for a change. Plus, there is something mildly cathartic about watching Gohan punch Frieza so hard it causes his minions to flee in horror. 
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Jun 10, 2014 01:39
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BlitzBlast posted:Well that was back when losing to God wasn't that demeaning. back then having your arm broken by Tenshinhan was the worst that could happen to you.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:45
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e X posted:back then having your arm broken by Tenshinhan was the worst that could happen to you. I think it was his leg, but yeah, same difference.
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Jun 10, 2014 01:52
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I have to say the only thing they cut I missed from Cooler movie was the part where Cooler knows Instant Transmission for no god damned reason
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Jun 10, 2014 02:25
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So I finished Dragonball yesterday (RIP the relevance of Tien and Krillan), and then started on the Z manga. And I feel that there was a very inconsistent characterization from Goku during his fight with Raditz in DBZ Chapter 6. After Raditz reveals that there are two people stronger than him. This exchange happens (Vizbig Translation). Picoolo (to Raditz): And so, should we succeed in striking you down down, we face twice your power, and more. Goku: Y'know, Piccolo, I coulda waited to heart that. Piccolo: Does it not thrill you, Son Goku?" Goku: Heh, "Thrill" probably isn't the word I'd pick. "Spitless" might be a better one..or "terrified". Maybe I read it too quickly, but I don't recall Goku ever showing fear in Dragonball. Is Goku a changed man after becoming a father? Or was this a way to show the threat of Raditz and further might be enough to scare even Goku?
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Jun 10, 2014 03:05
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Some Numbers posted:Guy got to the quarterfinals in...three different World Tournaments? He may be a chump, but he was consistently one of the eight strongest in the world back in Dragonball. Behold - even Yamcha can be pretty cool. That's his awesome theme song playing there. If I have one complaint about the Dragon Ball dub it's the lack of Insert Songs. However that isn't Funi's fault as far as I know. Toei just never gave them any copies of the show with the songs in them so we have to go without. A pity too since DB had the best insert songs. I hope you all celebrated Piccolo Day. Cozz posted:So I finished Dragonball yesterday (RIP the relevance of Tien and Krillan), and then started on the Z manga. And I feel that there was a very inconsistent characterization from Goku during his fight with Raditz in DBZ Chapter 6. After Raditz reveals that there are two people stronger than him. This exchange happens (Vizbig Translation). Goku knows he's the greatest warrior Earth has and even he wasn't enough to pose a threat to Raditz. Now there are two people on their way to Earth even stronger than Raditz while Goku is dying. My guess is he's more afraid for his family and friends than anything. Goku can know fear for those he loves, even if he himself is fearless. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 03:12
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RickoniX posted:I have to say the only thing they cut I missed from Cooler movie was the part where Cooler knows Instant Transmission for no god damned reason Obviously the big ghetto star visited yadarat  .
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Jun 10, 2014 03:34
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Cozz posted:So I finished Dragonball yesterday (RIP the relevance of Tien and Krillan), and then started on the Z manga. And I feel that there was a very inconsistent characterization from Goku during his fight with Raditz in DBZ Chapter 6. After Raditz reveals that there are two people stronger than him. This exchange happens (Vizbig Translation). I always loved that moment, I wish that particular piece of characterization stuck around longer in the series. In Dragonball, Goku saves the world throughout the series, but not with as much at stake personally other than the usual saving/avenging friends, beating bad guys, being the strongest, etc. Once he has a family he has to worry about, then for the first time he's personally worried. Contrast that with his fight with Piccolo Sr. (and to an extent, Jr.), where he either doesn't know as much how strong Piccolo Sr. is and what's at stake, and then he has the means to prepare and/or train, but still only knows that he can try to beat him and hopes he wins. There's kind of a ramping up, where he doesn't even know how strong Piccolo Sr. is when he first fights him, knows Piccolo's even stronger but is also stronger too and still ready to kick Piccolo's rear end the second time, training with Kami but still goes into the fight being less sure of his ability to win while ready to give it his all when he fights Piccolo, and feeling like he has barely a chance and needs Piccolo's help when he fights Raditz. Makes sense that he'd be "terrified" of the next set of fighters that Raditz just told him are that much stronger and on their way. And this happens when Goku is first presented as an adult in the series, and this attitude represents a change in his thinking that is more adult-like than his earlier care-free "don't care about how strong the bad guy is" attitude. Of course, that escalation of power and stakes continues throughout the series, but without the same progression in Goku's attitude, I think. Which also makes sense, since the defining thing about his character is his resilience and keeping up with his training in the face of increasing challenges. That said, that whole first arc is kind of a shake-up of Goku's usual attitude and views (other than trying to befriend someone he's fought); he fights two dudes (Raditz and Vegeta) stronger than him and doesn't definitively win either fight, doesn't fight by himself and needs help from his son and friends, finds out he killed his grandpa, finds out he's an alien and has a (now dead) brother. It's a different kind of challenge than the ones he faced so far, but still, the fact that Goku doesn't give up on saving the world and training even after all this (and including being dead) just reinforces that even as an adult, Goku has that same persistence in adversity that he had as a kid.
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Jun 10, 2014 03:55
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My favorite part of the Cooler movie was Piccolo yelling "Christ, just use your Kienzan!" Because really that's what Krillin should be doing in every fight but never does.
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Jun 10, 2014 09:19
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Like that time he used Solar Flare oN Freeza and had an excellent opportunity to kill him right then and there by cutting off his head. See, this is why people make fun of Krillin. At least Yamcha has the excuse he never came close to hurting the bad guys, Krillin had the opportunity several times and always hosed it up.
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Jun 10, 2014 12:39
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TwoPair posted:My favorite part of the Cooler movie was Piccolo yelling "Christ, just use your Kienzan!" It stopped having a point after Freeza, really, because everyone started regenerating. As I said earlier, though, Tenshinhan just has a bullshit attack that is way more powerful than him/it should be because it draws from life force as opposed to ki. It managed to annoy Cell because it stopped him from flying upwards for a minute. Other than that, he's never shown to do nearly as much as Krillen. Krillen killed multiple Saibamen at once, Tenshinhan killed one. Kicks Recoome in the back of the head, fights Guildo ok enough with Gohan Cuts Freeza's tail off and avoids him for a while Tienshinhan: Kills one Saibaman Gets beaten up by Nappa and kills himself with an attack that only hurts Nappa's armor Holds Imperfect Cell down for a minute with his life force attack The reason why people assume Tien is stronger is that Toei hates Krillen because he's small and hypes up bulkier people or something, while Toriyama doesn't think that way. SAll the times you're thinking about Tien actually doing something is probably a Toei addition. - Toei has Tenshinhan doing better than Cell Jrs than Krillen. Not in the manga. - Has him actually doing something against Buu besides rescuing people - Has him fighting the Ginyu force on Kai's planet On the flip side, it has Krillen getting beat up/being useless MORE, like: - kienzan doing nothing against Cell - Getting beat up in dumb filler eps - having stupid girlfriends and failing at good kamehamehas in filler eps. Then the movies have Krillen being scared and useless comic relief in every single one, while Tenshinhan gives Trunks a good fight before Trunks decides to go super. It automatically shapes your viewpoint outside of the manga.
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Jun 10, 2014 14:57
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Thyrork posted:Well, encouraged by this thread i found myself watching a few of the DBZ movies and specials. The trunks one was alright, nicely filled that bit of backstory. Not just his minions. Look at it again  Bojack and his crew, Brolly's father, Turles' crew, and Lord Slug's crew are there. it's really funny that Gohan blew up Freeza so hard that the much more powerful Bojack ran off.
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Jun 10, 2014 15:04
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Darko posted:Toei hates Krillin but loves Tien. Going to have to disagree here. Krillin gets more love than Tien in the manga because Krillin is and always was more of a central character than Tien. Even in the manga Krillin is never on Tien's level. Tien is easily the number 2 guy at the end of Dragon Ball and is pretty much considered on Piccolo's level before Piccolo's Kami power up (they at least get their rear end kicked by the androids with about the same effort). Yeah Tien might have a bullshit move, but Toriyama paints him as more powerful than Krillin all throughout the manga, he's just not as present as Krillin.
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Jun 10, 2014 16:30
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crankdatbatman posted:Going to have to disagree here. Krillin gets more love than Tien in the manga because Krillin is and always was more of a central character than Tien. Even in the manga Krillin is never on Tien's level. Tien is easily the number 2 guy at the end of Dragon Ball and is pretty much considered on Piccolo's level before Piccolo's Kami power up (they at least get their rear end kicked by the androids with about the same effort). Yeah Tien might have a bullshit move, but Toriyama paints him as more powerful than Krillin all throughout the manga, he's just not as present as Krillin. Theres no way Tien is even close to Nail fused Piccolo.
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Jun 10, 2014 16:50
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Kild posted:Theres no way Tien is even close to Nail fused Piccolo. There's nothing to say he isn't, and it's been years since Piccolo fused with Nail. Granted this is rapidly becoming another power levels are bullshit argument.
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Jun 10, 2014 17:10
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Darko posted:It's really funny that Gohan blew up Freeza so hard that the much more powerful Bojack ran off. To be fair, if I were Bojack and I saw that Gohan had gotten even stronger I'd loving leg it too. Dude knows what's up when it comes to that.
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Jun 10, 2014 17:16
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crankdatbatman posted:There's nothing to say he isn't, and it's been years since Piccolo fused with Nail. Granted this is rapidly becoming another power levels are bullshit argument. Training for 3 years with Chiaotzu doesn't really seem all that useful and I doubt it makes you go from Guldo levels to 2nd Form Frieza or higher levels especially as a Human.
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Jun 10, 2014 17:49
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And remember that while yes, Tien was "training" with King Kai, Krillin got the Elder Namek's power-up, which took him from Raditz level to nearly Vegeta on Earth level in a split second.
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Jun 10, 2014 18:08
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crankdatbatman posted:Going to have to disagree here. Krillin gets more love than Tien in the manga because Krillin is and always was more of a central character than Tien. Even in the manga Krillin is never on Tien's level. Tien is easily the number 2 guy at the end of Dragon Ball and is pretty much considered on Piccolo's level before Piccolo's Kami power up (they at least get their rear end kicked by the androids with about the same effort). Yeah Tien might have a bullshit move, but Toriyama paints him as more powerful than Krillin all throughout the manga, he's just not as present as Krillin. This isn't true, really. You're gong by colored perspectives. I always viewed Krillen as a bit of a joke character, colored by the anime movies and me being younger and thinking that the big strong bald guy would of course be better than the little bald guy with no nose. It always made me view him as weaker, even when that was contradicted. However, if you look at progression: - Tien starts off as stronger than Krillen by a tier (going by Budokai placement) - Tien is again a tier ahead in the next Budokai - Tien's power level (ugh, I know, I know) is scanned to be around 30 above Krillen's. - When Vegeta/Nappa come and everyone train with Kami, Krillen is slightly ahead by demonstratable results - While Tien is dead chasing Bubbles around or whatever he's doing, Krillen gets a huge power up from the Elder Namek - They both do self-training from that point on and who knows So, right when they train for the Saiyans, it shifts towards Krillen. From that point on, it's very questionable because neither do anything of note, really, except get beat up and killed. edit: However, one was training with 18, the other with Chiatzu, soooo
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Jun 10, 2014 18:54
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It's a shame no one else decided to learn the Kaio-ken.
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Jun 10, 2014 18:57
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bobjr posted:It's a shame no one else decided to learn the Kaio-ken. Toiyama probably forgot is existed.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:12
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I like DBA's reason for noone learning anything.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:13
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Maybe Tien did learn the kaioken and just kept it a secret since every one now was in awe of Super Saiyans? Maybe that's how he got as powerful as Nail fused Piccolo? He just would use it really quickly and quietly like Goku did against Freeza. I mean it's possible, since really all of this is just speculation.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:31
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