Ontario Election Thread: The Most Successful Name In Politics Is Win

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Who will you be voting for?
	A Liberal
	A Progressive Conservative
	A New Democrat
	A Comedy Option

Rynder: Mar 26, 2009

Oh yeah I forgot about the Vegan Environmentalist Party. I think I let out an audible "what?" when I scanned down the list.

My vote was bought out with bitcoins so I voted libertarian.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 17:50

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 10:26

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Goosed it. posted:

Half a million actually.

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/lfss01b-eng.htm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3uKT-5YlYo&t=24s

... did you somehow not see any PC ads?

# ? Jun 12, 2014 17:57

Juul-Whip: Mar 10, 2008

Jimbozig posted:

The data I've seen indicate that the government spends less money per capita on First Nations than on other Canadians.

For instance, this idiotic article seems to indicate that First Nations are getting $9868 per person ($9056 federal and $812 provincial) while the average Canadian (incl. First Nations) got $16801 per person ($7316 federal and $9205 provincial). How you can look at those numbers and then write an article headlined "Taxpayers Have Been Overly Generous to First Nations" is baffling. It just goes to show that while people like to use numbers to prove their points, they often lack the numeracy needed to understand those numbers.

...and now I'm waiting for somebody to point out that I've misunderstood the numbers in the article.

Well you see Indians aren't Taxpayers like the rest of us.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:08

Thomase: Mar 18, 2009

Jimbozig posted:

First Nations are getting $9868 per person ($9056 federal and $812 provincial) while the average Canadian (incl. First Nations) got $16801 per person ($7316 federal and $9205 provincial).

You seem to believe that people who think like this don't resent the fact that the government is providing $16801 to the average Canadian.

I just read an article commented onto my facebook timeline about people livid at a woman in the niagra region who was disappointed that she'd have to wait 8 years+ for affordable housing. 50% of her welfare benefit and child benefit were going directly to paying rent, a good portion to fees associated.

But you know, she smokes, so shes a leech and needs to get drug tested... oh man.

"Piss test the bitch"
"She does not live paycheque to paycheque as stated in there. She lives handout to handout!!!!!"
"Get a job. Useless leech"
"I haven't anything nice to say... So I will say nothing at all while I shake my head in disgust. There was a time this single mom worked 3 jobs... So... Not working & receiving more money than some people who work very hard infuriates me!! (So much for saying nothing) Even if you have some issues... Work from home... Figure it out..."

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:28

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

Jimbozig posted:

For instance, this idiotic article seems to indicate that First Nations are getting $9868 per person ($9056 federal and $812 provincial) while the average Canadian (incl. First Nations) got $16801 per person ($7316 federal and $9205 provincial). How you can look at those numbers and then write an article headlined "Taxpayers Have Been Overly Generous to First Nations" is baffling. It just goes to show that while people like to use numbers to prove their points, they often lack the numeracy needed to understand those numbers.

You aren't including the provincial money spent on everybody into the money spent on aboriginals. You should because they have access to the same hospitals, highways and gas plant relocations that we all do.

code:

		Everybody	Aboriginal Bonus	Aboriginal Total
Provincial	$9,205		$812			$10,017
Federal		$7,316		$9,056			$16,372
Total		$16,521		$9,868			$26,389

So if you're non-aboriginal, the average provincial + federal amount spent on you is $16,521. If you're aboriginal and have access to the same hospitals, highways, etc, the amount is $26,389. It's definitely wrong to conclude that we actually spend more on the general population than we do on aboriginals.

Postess with the Mostest fucked around with this message at 18:32 on Jun 12, 2014

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:29

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

Ikantski posted:

You aren't including the provincial money spent on everybody into the money spent on aboriginals. You should because they have access to the same hospitals, highways and gas plant relocations that we all do.

Someone should tell the people of Attawapiskat!!!

You should probably edit your post to say something less stupid.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:32

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Ikantski posted:

You aren't including the provincial money spent on everybody into the money spent on aboriginals. You should because they have access to the same hospitals, highways and gas plant relocations that we all do.

Hahaha you actually believe this.

No they don't.

They in no way have access to anywhere near the same level of services that the rest of the country does.

e: oh my god you did it for the federal portion too, holy poo poo

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:40

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

eXXon posted:

Someone should tell the people of Attawapiskat!!!

You should probably edit your post to say something less stupid.

Most natives in the province don't live like Attawapiskatians. Most live near civilization and use the same hospitals, highways and other town services that rural and northern people do.

I'm not sure how the article calculated the numbers but I think it's an error to not include money spent on everybody as money also spent on natives because that money does build highways, hospitals and other government services that the majority of status natives use. Fewer natives live on reserve than off reserve and most of those reserves are close enough to regular towns that they could regularly use them.

I suspect that the money spent on natives living on reserve is much higher than natives living off reserve but the article was just giving sweeping averages while you guys are picturing the most disadvantaged. Or maybe people from Toronto actually believe that the average Ontario native lives on a reserve off James Bay.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:44

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Yeah, fuckin' Torontonians don't know anything about how natives live, now let me tell you about how great their lives are because of all the government funding they get.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:46

Precambrian Video Games: Aug 19, 2002

49% of natives live on reserves in Canada. 37% in Ontario.

Adding up all of the money that gets spent on natives, and saying it funds services for all of them, including the half who don't live on reserves, is absolutely stupid. So is assuming that native living on reserves get additional funding equal to the per capita spending on anyone else in Canada, as if they actually have access to resources equivalent to your average urban Canadian. But I guess this is what Hudak calls new math.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:49

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

I'm just going to go ahead and quote the recent UN Special Rapporteur for Human Rights report on this. You can find it here.

quote:

Of the bottom 100 Canadian communities on the Community Wellbeing Index,
96 are First Nations, and only one First Nation community is in the top 100.

16. One might expect that the costs of social services required by indigenous peoples
would be higher than those of the general population given their needs and the geographic
remoteness of many indigenous communities. However, it does not appear that Canada has
dedicated higher resources to social services for indigenous peoples. The Auditor General
of Canada, an independent parliamentary officer, has alerted the Government that the lack
of appropriate funding is limiting social services delivery and thus the improvement on
living conditions on reserves.

24. The housing situation in Inuit and First Nations communities has reached a crisis
level, especially in the north, where remoteness and extreme weather exacerbate housing
problems. Overcrowded housing is endemic. Homes are in need of major repairs, including
plumbing and electrical work. These conditions add to the broader troubling water situation
in First Nations reserves, in which more than half of the water systems pose a medium or
high health risk to their users.16 The housing crisis has been identified by Inuit
representatives as a high priority issue. It is worth noting that the chronic housing shortage
has a severe negative effect on a wide variety of economic and social conditions.
Overcrowding contributes to higher rates of respiratory illness, depression, sleep
deprivation, family violence, poor educational achievement, and an inability to retain
skilled and professional members in the community.

25. Trying to meet their communities� housing needs is a major contributor to deficits
and financial difficulties for indigenous peoples throughout the country. The federal
Government, through AANDC and the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation
(CMHC), provides some support for on-reserve housing in First Nations communities First
Nations report that, with this funding, over the past five years they have built approximately
1,750 new units and renovations to more than 3,100 existing units. However, as is the case
off reserve, First Nations are expected to seek other sources of funding to meet housing
needs (such as private sector loans), which is a daunting task for many communities.

29. The health of First Nations, Inuit and M�tis people in Canada is a matter of
significant concern. Although overall the health situation of indigenous peoples in Canada
has improved in recent years, significant gaps still remain in health outcomes of aboriginal
as compared to non-aboriginal Canadians, including in terms of life expectancy, infant
mortality, suicide, injuries, and communicable and chronic diseases such as diabetes. The
health situation is exacerbated by overcrowded housing, high population growth rates, high
poverty rates, and the geographic remoteness of many communities, especially Inuit
communities in the north.

30. Healthcare for aboriginal people in Canada is delivered through a complex array of
federal, provincial and aboriginal services, and concerns have been raised about the
adequacy of coordination among these. A recent positive development in British Columbia,
which could provide a model for other areas, is the 2013 implementation of a tripartite
agreement to achieve a more responsive health cares system. The oversight and delivery of
federally funded health services in British Columbia have been transferred to First Nations,
while the three levels of government (First Nations, provincial and federal) work
collaboratively to support integration and accountability.

It keeps going, but hopefully you get the idea.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 18:58

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

vyelkin posted:

Yeah, fuckin' Torontonians don't know anything about how natives live, now let me tell you about how great their lives are because of all the government funding they get.

I never said their lives were great, all I said was that, using the numbers from the article, it's incorrect to conclude we spend more on the average Canadian than we do on the average native. It is very Torontonian to equate money with happiness though.

eXXon posted:

Adding up all of the money that gets spent on natives, and saying it funds services for all of them, including the half who don't live on reserves, is absolutely stupid.

That's fine but it's also dishonest to argue that the average native doesn't use any federal or provincial services other that what's paid for by Aboriginal Affairs. Off reserve natives are entitled to benefits under the Indian Act so some of that money should count though right? I think comparing suicide rates would probably be the best response to that article but I'm not sure what the solution is to that.

(First Nations is 24, not sure why they used 3 shades of purple)

# ? Jun 12, 2014 20:13

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

You really just need to stop, because all you're doing is making sweeping generalisations about an oppressed group of peoples, many of which are demonstrably incorrect. It's very offensive.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 20:38

Pussy Cartel: Jun 26, 2011; Lipstick Apathy

Debate Disco � Ontario Election Thread: It is very Torontonian to equate money with happiness

# ? Jun 12, 2014 21:23

Sovy Kurosei: Oct 9, 2012

Ikantski posted:

(First Nations is 24, not sure why they used 3 shades of purple)

You realize that graph is mislabeled, right? And that First Nations suicide rate for men is 126 per 100,000?

# ? Jun 12, 2014 22:08

Reince Penis: Nov 15, 2007; by R. Guyovich

Do we have an IRC channel to livechat the results tonight? #toronto seems a bit... torontocentric.

e: Global news reporting, based on exit polls, that turnout will be down again to somewhere in 45% territory.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 22:16

Dr. Witherbone: Nov 1, 2010; CHEESE LOOKS ON IN
DESPAIR BUT ALSO WITH
AN ERECTION

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

Do we have an IRC channel to livechat the results tonight? #toronto seems a bit... torontocentric.

You could head into the all-purpose canada #diefenbunker, it's usually pretty dead in there.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 22:19

Solis: Feb 2, 2011; Now you can take this knowledge and turn it into part of yourself.

So apparently if you've applied to vote by special ballot you can't vote in person even if you bring in your un-mailed special ballot.

I got mine then realised it isn't postage paid and I have no real easy way to get stamps working 91 hour weeks, so I figured I'd just wake up early and go in person before I start my night shift. Nope.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 22:56

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

PK loving SUBBAN posted:

Do we have an IRC channel to livechat the results tonight? #toronto seems a bit... torontocentric.

e: Global news reporting, based on exit polls, that turnout will be down again to somewhere in 45% territory.

Bit early to be saying this given polls are nowhere near closing, but advance poll numbers were way down so I won't be at all surprised if they're right.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:11

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

vyelkin posted:

Bit early to be saying this given polls are nowhere near closing, but advance poll numbers were way down so I won't be at all surprised if they're right.

Advance polling only dropped 6% despite the fact that there was 43% more advanced voting days in 2011 than this year, so that's not really a clear indicator of anything other than that more people would vote if we made it easier for them to do so.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:19

Mad Hamish: Jun 15, 2008; WILL AMOUNT TO NOTHING IN LIFE.

Just held my nose and voted Liberal, mostly because their budget proposal was amazing, but to my shock and horror there was a Libertarian candidate on the ballot. I didn't think there would be a worse choice than Conservative, but there you go.

There was also some Canadian Freedom party which I assume is a tiny, very right-wing Christian party, confirm / deny?

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:30

RBC: Nov 23, 2007; IM STILL SPENDING MONEY FROM 1888

the freedome party is basically the tea party

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:36

Chicken: Apr 23, 2014

Mad Hamish posted:

There was also some Canadian Freedom party which I assume is a tiny, very right-wing Christian party, confirm / deny?

Uhh, Wayne Gretzky's uncle and Marc Emery (the weed seed guy) have both been members of this party so it's probably pretty cool. Oh wait, Wikipedia has them down as Ayn Randians...

What time do the polls close and results start coming out?

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:41

Dallan Invictus: Oct 11, 2007; The thing about words is that meanings can twist just like a snake, and if you want to find snakes, look for them behind words that have changed their meaning.

Polls close at 9pm so I guess usable amounts of results will start coming in around 9:30 ish.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:43

angerbot: Mar 23, 2004; plob

Well, I voted (in the weirdly far away polling station instead of at city hall as per usual but whatever.) Turnout seemed pretty low from glancing at the lady's sheet but there was a pretty steady trickle of people coming in.

I'll be interested to see what happens in Kingston and the Islands - it's been pretty solidly Liberal territory for a long while but there's been a fuss over closing some of the highschools and the Liberals are popularly seen as being "behind it" so I think the NDP/Con numbers will climb a bit. Probably still go Liberal.

# ? Jun 12, 2014 23:46

less than three: Aug 9, 2007; Fallen Rib

Chicken posted:

What time do the polls close and results start coming out?

9PM EST

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:00

Mordecai: May 18, 2003; Known throughout the world! Chop people's head off to the ground! Angry eyes that frighten people! Dragon among humans, king of dragons... Manchurian Derp Deity, Ha Che'er.

I was going to decline, but after reading an interesting article (which, among other things, pointed out that declining your vote is heavily encouraged by conservatives) I decided to vote for the best local candidate.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:04

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

Let's see if this election can set a record lower than 49.2% turnout from last time. A number of people I talked to at work today are either indifferent or did not get a voter card (how does happen?).

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:09

Generation Internet: Jan 18, 2009; Where angels and generals fear to tread.

angerbot posted:

Well, I voted (in the weirdly far away polling station instead of at city hall as per usual but whatever.) Turnout seemed pretty low from glancing at the lady's sheet but there was a pretty steady trickle of people coming in.

I'll be interested to see what happens in Kingston and the Islands - it's been pretty solidly Liberal territory for a long while but there's been a fuss over closing some of the highschools and the Liberals are popularly seen as being "behind it" so I think the NDP/Con numbers will climb a bit. Probably still go Liberal.

When I voted a few weeks ago at the early polls in the West end there was a fairly steady stream of people coming in, which was encouraging, but they were all retired, which activated all kinds of stereotypes in my head. It probably didn't help that the first thing they said was 'it's so nice to see a young person voting'.

I also work for the city in the culture department now, so everyone's been really nervous about a potential PC win. I'm hopeful if only because the Liberals have had the most active campaign around here.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:10

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

Generation Internet posted:

When I voted a few weeks ago at the early polls in the West end there was a fairly steady stream of people coming in, which was encouraging, but they were all retired, which activated all kinds of stereotypes in my head. It probably didn't help that the first thing they said was 'it's so nice to see a young person voting'.

Seriously, the old guy at my polling station was overjoyed to see me come in and vote. He said he had a very lonely day. :smith:

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:13

DynamicSloth: Jul 30, 2006; "Man is least himself when he talks in his own person. Give him a mask, and he will tell you the truth."

yellowcar posted:

A number of people I talked to at work today are either indifferent or did not get a voter card (how does happen?).

Very easily but you do not need a voter card to vote as long as you have one piece of identification that includes both your name and residential address.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:16

Duck Rodgers: Oct 9, 2012

Mordecai posted:

I was going to decline, but after reading an interesting article (which, among other things, pointed out that declining your vote is heavily encouraged by conservatives) I decided to vote for the best local candidate.

I generally vote against candidates (conservatives), and I don't think that officially declining a ballot will have an effect, in the same way that I don't really think voting has much of an effect. However I don't like articles like this that seem to imply that the only voice we have is our vote. Most activist groups that call for people not to vote (ie anarchists) aren't saying just stay home and do nothing, they're calling for people to get involved in on the ground activism and use their democratic rights in a different way. I think part of the problem with our democracy is that its so limited to voting every four years.

Anyways I ended up going in to polling stations three times (why don't they let you vote at any station? would be easier for a lot of people who work long hours I'm sure). Finally got my vote cast though. First time in a while that I've been in a competitive riding (Kitchener Waterloo).

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:23

Kwik: Apr 4, 2006; You can't touch our beaver.

Dallan Invictus posted:

Polls close at 9pm so I guess usable amounts of results will start coming in around 9:30 ish.

It's apparently not gonna cause a delay in releasing province-wide results, but Dufferin-Caledon, Trinity-Spadina, and Kenora-Rainy River will all have polling places staying open past 9pm- 9:30 for Dufferin and Trinity, and 9pm CT for Kenora. Results for those ridings will not be released until all polls have closed.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:30

bunnyofdoom: Mar 29, 2008; [b]BUNNIES ARE CUTE BUT DEADLY/b]

So, unofficially, and anecdotal, but my roding is showing a good deal of turnout (60-70%) identified voters have voted.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:33

yellowcar: Feb 14, 2010

DynamicSloth posted:

Very easily but you do not need a voter card to vote as long as you have one piece of identification that includes both your name and residential address.

I know that you don't need the voter card itself to go vote. What I meant was that a lot of people that didn't get a voter card had no clue where their polling station was and weren't savvy enough to go to the Elections Ontario website to find out.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:33

Thomase: Mar 18, 2009

Voted liberal, hope that NDP swings back to the left with better progressive policies next election.

And one less horvath.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:38

Postess with the Mostest: Apr 4, 2007; Arabian nights
'neath Arabian moons
A fool off his guard
could fall and fall hard
out there on the dunes

bunnyofdoom posted:

So, unofficially, and anecdotal, but my roding is showing a good deal of turnout (60-70%) identified voters have voted.

I've talked to at least two mid 40s people in my riding who voted for the first time today too, I think voter turnout might be high for this one.

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:42

Drunk Canuck: Jan 9, 2010; Robots ruin all the fun of a good adventure.

Dr. Witherbone posted:

You could head into the all-purpose canada #diefenbunker, it's usually pretty dead in there.

Yeah, this is the idea. Join everyone in #diefenbunker on synirc

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:42

JohnnyCanuck: May 28, 2004; Strong And/Or Free

I gotta choose if I'll stay up and froth at the mouth every time a new batch of results comes in, or get drunk and play videogames and find out in the morning.

...oh hell I'll do both, won't i?

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:45

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# ? Jun 9, 2024 10:26

FowlTheOwl: Nov 5, 2008; O thou precious owl,
The wise Minervas only fowl

I saw a few younger people at my polling station this morning and it was pretty busy when I drove by. I noticed a lot of peer pressure (age 25-30) on Facebook to vote which I think is good, got to remind people. I feel it will be pretty good turn out, not great but good enough.

Is there a turn out limit? Like if it goes below 30% they try again? It can't be good to have a government/democracy with that low confidence in the process.

FowlTheOwl fucked around with this message at 00:51 on Jun 13, 2014

# ? Jun 13, 2014 00:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Ontario Election Thread: The Most Successful Name In Politics Is Win

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