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patentmagus
May 19, 2013

A Game of Chess posted:

I can't even imagine working in a court that cares about rules like that. I'd say approximately 50% of the things that come across my desk don't technically conform to the rules. I don't have the time to care about font or margins and my judge would rather just address things on the merits and dispose of it that way, than get pedantic about form. Again, can't speak for any other courts, it's just such a foreign way to look at things.

The courts must enforce the rules lest everything comes in with 6 point proportional font and 1/16" margins.

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ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

patentmagus posted:

The courts must enforce the rules lest everything comes in with 6 point proportional font and 1/16" margins.

Just make a word count limit and call it a day.

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

ulmont posted:

Just make a word count limit and call it a day.

Limiting syllables would be smarter.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

patentmagus posted:

Limiting syllables would be smarter.

Word count you can check with Microsoft word. Syllables not so much.

patentmagus
May 19, 2013

ulmont posted:

Word count you can check with Microsoft word. Syllables not so much.

Tools/plug-ins/services to do it will appear almost instantaneously given the opportunity to object to opposing counsel's filings.

I dread the unreadable law-speak that we'd end up using if word limited.

CmdrSmirnoff
Oct 27, 2005
happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy happy
Do you guys know of any cool programs for litigators to help out with...whatever? Note taking during trials, prepping a cross exam, etc. I wanna buy a tablet or laplet and want to explore a world beyond Word and Excel

the milk machine
Jul 23, 2002

lick my keys
On a similar note, I'd love to hear about any sort of scheduling/task/organizer software anyone uses. My trusted "scrawled out lists and post its all over the place" system is showing its limits lately, and Outlook sucks.

gvibes
Jan 18, 2010

Leading us to the promised land (i.e., one tournament win in five years)

Jagchosis posted:

In week three of my judicial externship in a very popular district for patent suits, I must ask patent litigator goons; how do patent litigators not go crazy/and or commit suicide at a rate of ~100%?
Patent law best law

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord
http://www.dallasnews.com/news/local-news/20140607-obama-plans-steps-to-ease-student-debt.ece

Obama is going to extend pay as you earn. Hurrah.

ulmont
Sep 15, 2010

IF I EVER MISS VOTING IN AN ELECTION (EVEN AMERICAN IDOL) ,OR HAVE UNPAID PARKING TICKETS, PLEASE TAKE AWAY MY FRANCHISE

patentmagus posted:

I dread the unreadable law-speak that we'd end up using if word limited.

FRAP 32(a)(7)(B) allows a word count option that is much more generous than the page limits.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008


The joke here is that people on IBR will somehow be able to "buy homes" or "start businesses," right?

Petey
Nov 26, 2005

For who knows what is good for a person in life, during the few and meaningless days they pass through like a shadow? Who can tell them what will happen under the sun after they are gone?
xposted

hendersa posted:

quote:

Dear Colleagues:

I have been pestered and harassed into writing this letter on behalf of <name redacted>. When Ms. <name redacted> first asked me for a letter of recommendation in support of her application to your law school, I respectfully declined. She then began to come to my office on a near-daily basis, hounding me to change my mind. She argued that because she had taken three classes from me, and because I am an attorney, I was in the best position to write such a letter advocating for her admission to law school. I explained to her that she never earned a grade higher than a “C” in any of the assignments she submitted in my courses. I further explained that she was frequently absent or late to my classes. When did attend, she was rarely prepared for class. In fact, I could not recall a single instance in which she performed well in a Socratic dialogue. I, therefore, could not recommend her admission to law school in good conscience.

In spite of my explanations about her unsuitability for law school, Ms. <name redacted> and her mother came to my office to demand I write a letter on Ms. <name redacted>’s behalf. In fact, Ms. <name redacted>’s mother threatened me with legal action if I did not write her daughter a letter. She yelled and cursed at me, saying, “I pay your f#%&*@ salary! I will make sure you are denied tenure for failing to attend to the educational needs of your students!” So, I agreed to write this letter. Here is my honest assessment of Ms. <name redacted>:

In my opinion, you should not accept Ms. <name redacted> into your entering class of law students. She is neither smart enough nor mature enough to handle the rigors of law school. Moreover, she represents the exact type of personality that is likely to bring disrepute not only to your law school, but to the legal profession as a whole. Accordingly, I urge you to reject her application.

Sincerely,

<removed>, J.D., Ph.D.
Assistant Professor of Law and Justice
Pre-Law Advisor

MoFauxHawk
Jan 1, 2007

Mickey Mouse copyright
Walt Gisnep

What the grad school thread doesn't mention is that, considering what law schools she would have had a shot of getting into with those kinds of grades and what I imagine is a crappy LSAT score, he's not only doing the schools she applies to a favor, but a favor to her because now she hopefully won't go to law school.

Though this may just mean she only gets into her "safety" schools and those schools are especially bad. I still like the letter and think it's a net positive.

Vox Nihili
May 28, 2008

MoFauxHawk posted:

What the grad school thread doesn't mention is that, considering what law schools she would have had a shot of getting into with those kinds of grades and what I imagine is a crappy LSAT score, he's not only doing the schools she applies to a favor, but a favor to her because now she hopefully won't go to law school.

Though this may just mean she only gets into her "safety" schools and those schools are especially bad. I still like the letter and think it's a net positive.

I really doubt that the bottom-feeder schools, in their present, desperate condition, would reject someone based on a poor letter of recommendation. Hell, it wouldn't even bring down their incoming class LSAT ranking, something they actually care about.

Pook Good Mook
Aug 6, 2013


ENFORCE THE UNITED STATES DRESS CODE AT ALL COSTS!

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Vox Nihili posted:

I really doubt that the bottom-feeder schools, in their present, desperate condition, would reject someone based on a poor letter of recommendation. Hell, it wouldn't even bring down their incoming class LSAT ranking, something they actually care about.

Ya, I doubt some of those schools even open the letters of recommendation. And if the girl is applying to one of the myriad unaccredited law schools in California I doubt they'd care even if they read it.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

This letter says SO much more about the writer than it does about the student.

Gutless, backstabbing and passive-aggressive. If it wasn't for the pathological inability to handle the mildest level of conflict, he/she'd make a half-decent crappy lawyer.

(Unless it was one of those "cathartically write in anger and then delete" letters)

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

joat mon posted:

This letter says SO much more about the writer than it does about the student.

Gutless, backstabbing and passive-aggressive. If it wasn't for the pathological inability to handle the mildest level of conflict, he/she'd make a half-decent crappy lawyer.

(Unless it was one of those "cathartically write in anger and then delete" letters)

I'm pretty sure when you tell someone you won't write them a letter of recommendation because it will be terrible for a variety of very good reasons, then they coerce you into writing one, they deserve that letter.

Glambags
Dec 28, 2003

evilweasel posted:

I'm pretty sure when you tell someone you won't write them a letter of recommendation because it will be terrible for a variety of very good reasons, then they coerce you into writing one, they deserve that letter.

I don't disagree but it still seems kind of unprofessional. Responding to unprofessionalism with unprofessionalism doesn't seem like a good idea to me. If I ever wrote something like that and people actually saw it, I'd be mortified. Good luck getting hired/people taking you seriously if they saw that. I guess good for them for having their name redacted. Reading it for a second time I did get a fw:fw:fw:fw urban legend type feeling from it though.

Also, this person is a "pre-law advisor" and therefore the worst kind of monster.

WhiskeyJuvenile
Feb 15, 2002

by Nyc_Tattoo
It's not passive-aggressive, it's regular aggressive.

quepasa18
Oct 13, 2005
I regularly write letters of recommendation for my students, and I would never write a letter like this because I think it would make me look bad as well as the student. I would write, and have written, the most tepid letter possible that doesn't specifically recommend a person but doesn't say not to hire or admit them either. There's always something positive to say, even if it is completely irrelevant. Employers and schools, if they care, will get it.

That said, this is what I would write in my head.

MoFauxHawk
Jan 1, 2007

Mickey Mouse copyright
Walt Gisnep
She threatened legal action against him. She straight-up threatened to sue him if he didn't write a letter for her. His mom yelled at him and cursed him. Dude was angry. If you basically hold a gun to somebody's head and tell them to write a letter, you deserve whatever they write. And it's not like he was waxing poetic. He just described the events exactly (I assume) as they happened. He gave them the story of why he's writing this letter.

He may have never written a tepid letter of recommendation before, too, and wanted the admissions people to know that he wasn't just writing it because he was too mean to be frank and decline to write the letter.

MoFauxHawk fucked around with this message at 17:25 on Jun 11, 2014

quepasa18
Oct 13, 2005

MoFauxHawk posted:

I mean she threatened legal action against him. She straight-up threatened to sue him if he didn't write a letter for her. Dude was angry. If you basically hold a gun to somebody's head and tell them to write a letter, you deserve whatever they write.

Students threaten legal action all the time when they don't get what they want. This guy is an attorney so he should know full well such a lawsuit would get immediately dismissed. We aren't under some kind of legal obligation to write reference letters. I agree the student deserved that letter; I just think writing that kind of letter is unprofessional.

I had a student threaten to sue me when he got a B. He had predetermined he needed a 4.0 to get a job and I was preventing that. Of course, he was all bluster, as most of them are. Although when I was working at a law firm we once got a call from a student who wanted to sue a teacher over their grade. We didn't take the case, but this is an increasing problem. Students think by paying tuition they are entitled to they grade they want.

evilweasel
Aug 24, 2002

quepasa18 posted:

Students threaten legal action all the time when they don't get what they want. This guy is an attorney so he should know full well such a lawsuit would get immediately dismissed.

As an attorney he should also (and probably does also) know full well that just because a lawsuit is meritless does not mean it will be immediately dismissed and does not mean it will not cost him money and look bad professionally. Also that a parent willing to make that sort of threat may not follow through with it but may follow through with trying to hurt him professionally. I'm not sure if "Assistant Professor" means he has tenure or is trying to get it, but without already having tenure he should absolutely just write the terrible letter rather than risk professional retaliation.

Ersatz
Sep 17, 2005

quepasa18 posted:

I . . . have written, the most tepid letter possible . . . .
Did you first warn the student(s) that, although you could write a letter, they would be better off asking other professors?

G-Mawwwwwww
Jan 31, 2003

My LPth are Hot Garbage
Biscuit Hider
The best thing is when people make legal threats to me while we're inside the courthouse.

"I'm going to sue you for sanctions!"

"Go do it. I waive notice. Let's go in there and do it right now!"

"I'll take it to the judge!"

"Ok. I agree. Let's go do it."

"I haven't had time to brief."

Unamuno
May 31, 2003
Cry me a fuckin' river, Fauntleroy.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

It's not passive-aggressive, it's regular aggressive.

It's not regular aggressive, it's stdh.txt. Did the HLS admissions committee stand up and do a slow clap after hearing it read aloud?

e: oops, EvilJimmyCarter beat me to it but still.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

WhiskeyJuvenile posted:

It's not passive-aggressive, it's regular aggressive.

If the letter was directed to mom or kid, it'd be regular aggressive.

ibntumart
Mar 18, 2007

Good, bad. I'm the one with the power of Shu, Heru, Amon, Zehuti, Aton, and Mehen.
College Slice

Unamuno posted:

It's not regular aggressive, it's stdh.txt. Did the HLS admissions committee stand up and do a slow clap after hearing it read aloud?

e: oops, EvilJimmyCarter beat me to it but still.

The admissions officer at the law school was so amazed by his flawless sick burn that she married him the next day, too.

Beerdeer
Apr 25, 2006

Frank Herbert's Dude
An undergrad member of my national fraternity posted on Facebook for some advice on LSAT prep. I was heartened to see quite a few "no, don't do it"s.

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord

CaptainScraps posted:

The best thing is when people make legal threats to me while we're inside the courthouse.

"I'm going to sue you for sanctions!"

"Go do it. I waive notice. Let's go in there and do it right now!"

"I'll take it to the judge!"

"Ok. I agree. Let's go do it."

"I haven't had time to brief."

Ahh family law.

MaximumBob
Jan 15, 2006

You're moving who to the bullpen?

evilweasel posted:

As an attorney he should also (and probably does also) know full well that just because a lawsuit is meritless does not mean it will be immediately dismissed and does not mean it will not cost him money and look bad professionally. Also that a parent willing to make that sort of threat may not follow through with it but may follow through with trying to hurt him professionally. I'm not sure if "Assistant Professor" means he has tenure or is trying to get it, but without already having tenure he should absolutely just write the terrible letter rather than risk professional retaliation.

As an attorney he should probably also know that someone might very well file a meritless lawsuit over a letter like that, too, though.

joat mon
Oct 15, 2009

I am the master of my lamp;
I am the captain of my tub.

MaximumBob posted:

As an attorney he should probably also know that someone might very well file a meritless lawsuit over a letter like that, too, though.

Plus, more likely to get sued in a personal capacity for such a letter than for refusing to write the letter.

bub spank
Feb 1, 2005

the THRILL

MaximumBob posted:

As an attorney he should probably also know that someone might very well file a meritless lawsuit over a letter like that, too, though.

If you're gonna have to defend a frivolous suit either way, you may as well have some fun with it I guess

bub spank fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jun 12, 2014

quepasa18
Oct 13, 2005

Ersatz posted:

Did you first warn the student(s) that, although you could write a letter, they would be better off asking other professors?

Yes. Usually I write vague letters when students tell me they don't have anyone else to ask. It's also in my syllabus that if they ask me for references they should be aware that I will be honest. Most know whether asking me is a good idea or not.

I have also flat out refused to be a reference and never had anyone contest that or argue about it.

quepasa18 fucked around with this message at 04:02 on Jun 12, 2014

Zarkov Cortez
Aug 18, 2007

Alas, our kitten class attack ships were no match for their mighty chairs
I had one professor who refused to write reference letters for jobs, but would write reference letters for clerkship applications.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Zarkov Cortez posted:

I had one professor who refused to write reference letters for jobs, but would write reference letters for clerkship applications.

academia.txt

yronic heroism
Oct 31, 2008

joat mon posted:

Plus, more likely to get sued in a personal capacity for such a letter than for refusing to write the letter.

Depends if the student exercised the option to see the letter I think? At least when I was doing the common app there was an option to check some box waiving that right, and I know did that because I figured it would make me look ballsier not looking over a reference's shoulder. It didn't sink my chances of getting accepted, but on the flip side I always wondered what they wrote. Probably still something pretty generic since I didn't take a lot of classes with any one prof.

So Assistant Professor is only a true big dog indifferently taking on extra liability if that student was going to see the letter.

I mean in theory, anyway. Now it's out there on the internet so who knows when it might land on Above the Law and get recognized, assuming this is poo poo that did happen.

Roger_Mudd
Jul 18, 2003

Buglord
Way to ruin that letter folks. drat lawyers.

Soothing Vapors
Mar 26, 2006

Associate Justice Lena "Kegels" Dunham: An uncool thought to have: 'is that guy walking in the dark behind me a rapist? Never mind, he's Asian.

Roger_Mudd posted:

Way to ruin that letter folks. drat lawyers.
Right?

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Tetrix
Aug 24, 2002

I'm suing you guys for having a legal discussion over the letter rather than laughing at this girl who demanded it.

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