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Chaotic Neutral posted:What? No it's not, not by a large margin, not even on 0 magic defense targets. -ra spells are power 50 vs -gas at power 185. Even if -ra spells had power 100, dualcast would still lose out on anything with a magic defense value. You're forgetting about Rod boosting, which brings it up to 75, so a Rod boosted Dualcasted spell is around 150 Power, stronger then base Aeroga. And very few enemies have any magic defense worth nothing.
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Jun 12, 2014 23:58
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Dr Pepper posted:You're forgetting about Rod boosting, which brings it up to 75, so a Rod boosted Dualcasted spell is around 150 Power, stronger then base Aeroga. Yeah, but it's not better than air knife boosted aeroga, which sucks rear end as a main offense option in the first place.
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Jun 12, 2014 23:59
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You can rod boost -agas too! That's more a point in their favor. Knife boosting if it's Aeros, but big deal. And when I say 'worth noting', I really mean 'better than 20'.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:00
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dis astranagant posted:When you have a mage who needs spammable mp recovery. !dance can do it but isn't reliable.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:01
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Chaotic Neutral posted:What? No it's not, not by a large margin, not even on 0 magic defense targets. -ra spells are power 50 vs -gas at power 185. Even if -ra spells had power 100, dualcast would still lose out on anything with a magic defense value. Oh shoot your right. I'm remembering some game where that is true, but now I can't tell which one it is.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:04
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This'll be my first time doing this too. I love FFV so this should be an interesting new way to play it.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:09
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Chaotic Neutral posted:You can rod boost -agas too! That's more a point in their favor. Knife boosting if it's Aeros, but big deal. You can rod boost Wind too; the Magus Rod doesn't boost Water (and Holy).
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Jun 13, 2014 00:22
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Dragonatrix posted:If you have both, you can give Dragoon the Maneater to do insane jumps. Which isn't possible here, so uh... I guess never as far as the fiesta is concerned. Maneater is Dancer equipment, and is one of the four items that Equip Ribbon allows non-Dancers to equip.
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Jun 13, 2014 00:34
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Shwqa posted:Oh shoot your right. I'm remembering some game where that is true, but now I can't tell which one it is. Probably the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance games. Dualcast is arguably even more ridiculous there than it is here since it doesn't need synergy to be absurd. Also regarding the Dancer/Dragoon debate, can we all agree that we're trying to compare the glassest cannon to an uninteresting meatsack and leave it at that apples and oranges point? Dancer has game-worst Vitality/HP, Dragoon has all of the  of Knights with none of the utility or knight swords, they're both loving terrible compared to the other two gamebreaking Earth Crystal jobs.
KataraniSword fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Jun 13, 2014 |
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Jun 13, 2014 00:53
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KataraniSword posted:Probably the Final Fantasy Tactics Advance games. Dualcast is arguably even more ridiculous there than it is here since it doesn't need synergy to be absurd. Dancer's worse because it's random. Dragoon is reliably .
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Jun 13, 2014 02:02
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Dancer is amazing because it has the best outfits.
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Jun 13, 2014 02:15
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Orange Fluffy Sheep posted:Dancer's worse because it's random. Dragoon is reliably Counterpoint: 
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Jun 13, 2014 02:19
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Sword Dance is way too strong for Dancer to be worse than Dragoon, even without Sword Dance Up. Doubling attack and multiplier makes it guaranteed to be a heavy hitter as soon as you get access to it.
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Jun 13, 2014 02:31
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Personally, I think Faris has a better Dancer sprite than Bartz.
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Jun 13, 2014 02:53
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Bellmaker posted:Counterpoint: We have a winner.
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Jun 13, 2014 02:57
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W.T. Fits posted:Personally, I think Faris has a better Dancer sprite than Bartz. The trouble with Dancer Faris is that Faris has the best sprite for way more classes than Bartz anyway (Knight, Thief, Summoner, Mystic Knight, Beastmaster, Bard...)
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Jun 13, 2014 02:58
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I have never played this game and have just registered for the fiesta 
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Jun 13, 2014 03:14
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Honestly, the first question in the OP ought to be "I haven't played this game before, what do? Sign up anyway because this game is cool"
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Jun 13, 2014 03:25
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Che Delilas posted:We have a winner. Supporting point for the counterpoint:  Heatwizard posted:Honestly, the first question in the OP ought to be "I haven't played this game before, what do? Sign up anyway because this game is cool" Good call.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:32
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Chaotic Neutral posted:Sword Dance is way too strong for Dancer to be worse than Dragoon, even without Sword Dance Up. Doubling attack and multiplier makes it guaranteed to be a heavy hitter as soon as you get access to it. See, the thing is, is that it basically comes out, in practice, as a 4x damage attack. Until you get the Dancer-specific gear (which isn't until you can do Phoenix Tower, I believe, unless you have a Thief?) you are doing that 4x damage attack approximately 25% of the time, with the other three results being much less efficient (or worthless - Tempting Tango doesn't do poo poo to bosses, the two draining skills are actively detrimental against undead). So ultimately, it comes out to a wash for most of the game, with the chance that the RNG will show mercy on you. Really, there's only one reason to say that Dancer is better than Dragoon, and that reason is this: Bellmaker posted:Counterpoint:
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Jun 13, 2014 03:52
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Also, Sword Dance is affected by row, which means that unless the Dancer is up front it's really not as powerful as everyone claims. And if your Dancer is in the front row in boss fights with powerful single target physical hits (like Exdeath), he'll be eating dirt most of the time, because Dancers have the worst HP in the game and can't equip shields. I actually used to like Dancer, and I grew to despise it after rolling one in a bad Fiesta party.
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Jun 13, 2014 03:58
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Y'all be forgetting how stupidly loving good ribbons are.code:
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Jun 13, 2014 04:16
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I have had multiple runs where Dancer was my most reliable source of damage and boss-killing (sad as that is). I don't think I've had a run where a meatsack that's never around to absorb hits has been the crux of my team. Jump was useful for Exdeath one time and that's it.
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Jun 13, 2014 04:23
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Kyrosiris posted:Y'all be forgetting how stupidly loving good ribbons are. Also rainbow suit is really good too code:
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Jun 13, 2014 04:34
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Kyrosiris posted:Y'all be forgetting how stupidly loving good ribbons are. Man, I love me some Dancers and still forgot about those wonderful stats. Hope I roll one after I finish my Classic run this year 
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Jun 13, 2014 05:49
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Frankly I'm inclined to agree that ribbons are, effectively, rear end-slappingly good. Immunity to effectively all status effects that matter? Yes plz I enjoy having my cake and eating it too yum yum.
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Jun 13, 2014 08:29
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You people are talking like you never put Final Fantasy Ribbons on every single character who can equip them and just stick to Hermes Sandals because gottagofast.
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Jun 13, 2014 11:51
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Ribbons are amazing, just like they are in every single Final Fantasy game. Pity the only classes that can equip them respectively get oneshot by physical attacks and are illegal in the 4JF!
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Jun 13, 2014 11:57
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Gologle posted:You people are talking like you never put Final Fantasy Ribbons on every single character who can equip them and just stick to Hermes Sandals because gottagofast. The discussion isn't about the obvious status defenses. It's about how it's still a completely ridiculous helmet without them.
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Jun 13, 2014 11:58
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Yeah, even without the status immunity, Ribbons grant +5 to all your stats, have the defense of a late-game helm, and weigh practically nothing.
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Jun 13, 2014 14:38
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Ribbons mean you can completely ignore the Grand Cross part of Neo-Exdeath.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:33
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Gologle posted:You people are talking like you never put Final Fantasy Ribbons on every single character who can equip them and just stick to Hermes Sandals because gottagofast. You can do both; Ribbons are helmets. Zombies' Downfall posted:Pity the only classes that can equip them respectively get oneshot by physical attacks and are illegal in the 4JF! Dancer. Freelancer. Anything with Equip Ribbon. None of that is barred; you have to Job Fair to get Freelancer but that's it.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:36
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Fister Roboto posted:Ribbons mean you can completely ignore the Grand Cross part of Neo-Exdeath. Ehhh, I wouldn't say that. You can still be Zombied, Minied, Paralyzed, Confused...
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Jun 13, 2014 15:36
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ProfessorProf posted:Dive straight into the Fiesta like a boss. This thread will be able to carry you to victory. Okay, so gently caress my common sense, I will go ahead and try this as my first FFV run ever.
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Jun 13, 2014 15:48
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With the talk if worst combinations of classes, it got me wondering about the best classes. I get the idea that lots of class combinations can completely break the game. Are there any classes that can carry the game just by themselves? Like if you get a specific class, you know the game will be a cakewalk, no matter what the other classes you are assigned?
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Jun 13, 2014 17:11
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Orvin posted:With the talk if worst combinations of classes, it got me wondering about the best classes. I get the idea that lots of class combinations can completely break the game. Are there any classes that can carry the game just by themselves? Like if you get a specific class, you know the game will be a cakewalk, no matter what the other classes you are assigned? Chemist, Blue Mage, Summoner, probably Black Mage. Maybe Mystic Knight and Archer.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:13
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Blue Mage and Summoner are common calls. Chemist can carry you through literally every boss fight, too, but it takes a little effort.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:14
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Forgot Samurai on the maybe list.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:16
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Most of the ones I'd pick were said already, though I'd definitely put Mystic Knight on because it's real good at the toolbox solution: if you are weak to something or have a status vulnerability, he will find it. Additionally, I'd add Samurai if you're willing to throw money at problems you can't get by any other way. (I hate doing that because I'm cheap.)
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Jun 13, 2014 17:16
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Last year I got Blue Mage, Mystic Knight, Ninja, Chemist for my second run. I can't think of a better team, except maybe a Summoner in place of the MK. My completion time was about 10 hours faster than my first run of Black Mage, MK, Ranger, Dancer.
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Jun 13, 2014 17:18
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