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Xtanstic posted:Yeah me too. Thirded
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Jun 14, 2014 03:49
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I just wish Dresden was making a little more progress as a character in this area instead of backsliding so badly. The high point on his character arc in this regard was probably when he told Molly that sex with his apprentice was never, ever going to happen because that would be morally wrong. Reading this reminded me of that scene, and I suddenly remembered something I had to go back and verify about it: Harry pours not just water on Molly, but ice water. Don't know if its intentional or not, but what with Harry's habit of Naming things I'd say its entirely possible the starborn baptized the new Winter Lady long before even Mab had ideas for it.
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Jun 14, 2014 04:00
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I really want to read the Leandsidhe's Godmother Files.
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Jun 14, 2014 04:11
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If there's not a Lea/Ramirez Buddy Also: Cold Days posted:"I...have a form of congenital dementia," [Sarissa] said. "I watched what it did to my older sister and..." She shuddered. "Doctors can't help me. Mab can." So basically everyone's right. Both Sarissa and (presumably) Maeve had this 'dementia', which, in context, is probably a covert reference to their changeling nature.
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Jun 14, 2014 04:54
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stayl posted:Being made into an inhumaan faerie queen is hardly a good thing. Speaking of which, maybe this has already been discussed but I finished the book yesterday and I really didn't understand the big deal Harry made out of Molly having a phone. That seemed to be to be a very obvious consequence of Molly becoming the Winter Lady, that she'd trade mortal rules like "Wizards can't computer good" for the fey ones like "unable to speak things which are not true". It seemed weird to me that Harry's paranoia was set off by someone not wanting to tell him all about her new phone, especially when Molly would have probably been able to use them when she was younger, and has a year to get used to the idea that she can use them again. Was there some significance to this that I missed?
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Jun 14, 2014 15:53
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I think it's just that Harry's afraid that Molly is already a whole lot less human than she seems. Of course it'll probably turn out that the svartalves can make magic-proof phones or something.
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Jun 14, 2014 15:58
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What? Molly isn't human, period. Seeing her casually using a cell phone just drove that home for Harry. I would argue that she's still Molly, but she's not human. She plays be different, tougher rules now.
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Jun 14, 2014 16:26
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The cell phone also represents a convenience that might appeal to Molly even though she's on a path to losing her humanity
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Jun 14, 2014 16:36
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I'm pretty sure from molly's pov being fey is a happily ever after.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:00
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TenaciousJ posted:The cell phone also represents a convenience that might appeal to Molly even though she's on a path to losing her humanity Something I found really amusing is that apparently Butcher wrote the magic-fucks-with-tech rules explicitly to disallow cell phones. He says they ruin everything, there's no tension if you see something going terribly wrong and you can just call someone better-equipped / smarter to come deal with it. Now that I think about it, cell phones would have ruined pretty much every one of the early books, because those have so many crises which are fundamentally about failures of communication. So my guess is that that's written as a significant moment not because it's much of one for Harry or Molly, but because it's significant for the plot of later novels, and we need to remember it.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:50
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SolTerrasa posted:So my guess is that that's written as a significant moment not because it's much of one for Harry or Molly, but because it's significant for the plot of later novels, and we need to remember it. Besides if she teams up with Harry again, then her cellphone will likely be producing smoke signals after just a few minutes of being near Harry. I reckon the cellphone thing was there to point out to both the reader and Harry that Molly is no longer a human wizard and to make Harry fear for Molly's soul/humanity. After all, Harry almost got a happy end and we can't have that. He needs something to angst about.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:36
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Its not proper noir if things arent as bad or worse than when they started out.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:38
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Shouldn't Molly's ability to use a cell phone be a pretty big tip off to her parents that something has changed with her? They are both pretty aware of Dresden's issues with technology and make a point to mention it every time someone doesn't get taken to the hospital, and given that they know she was his apprentice and pretty powerful in her own right she shouldn't really be able to get anywhere near a cell phone.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:54
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We didn't see Molly use the cellphone in front her parents. Either she's careful about that or she came up with some lie about a built-in magic circle or something. That said, Michael isn't stupid and he did notice that statue in Hades' vault. He doesn't seem like the type to confront Molly about it though. Raygereio fucked around with this message at 23:03 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 22:59
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Raygereio posted:We didn't see Molly use the cellphone in front her parents. Either she's careful about that or she came up with some lie about a built-in magic circle or something. I don't understand what conclusion we're supposed to pull from Molly looking like the Hecate statue. Is it supposed to mean that Molly's transformation to fae is happening faster than we realize? Or does it mean that Molly was always meant to become a fae because of historical incarnations?
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Jun 14, 2014 23:17
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Xtanstic posted:I don't understand what conclusion we're supposed to pull from Molly looking like the Hecate statue. Is it supposed to mean that Molly's transformation to fae is happening faster than we realize? Or does it mean that Molly was always meant to become a fae because of historical incarnations? The statue represents the current winter family. The Winter Lady looks like Michael's daughter. That is it.
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Jun 14, 2014 23:19
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Xtanstic posted:I don't understand what conclusion we're supposed to pull from Molly looking like the Hecate statue. Is it supposed to mean that Molly's transformation to fae is happening faster than we realize? Or does it mean that Molly was always meant to become a fae because of historical incarnations? The point I got from it was that it was supposed to hint at the Faerie Queens being merely the latest expression of their role and part of the slowly changing mythologies. i.e. the Hecate statues reflect whatever Hecate (or the equivalent) is currently, and one of the entities is currently Molly.
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Jun 14, 2014 23:26
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AllTerrineVehicle posted:The point I got from it was that it was supposed to hint at the Faerie Queens being merely the latest expression of their role and part of the slowly changing mythologies. i.e. the Hecate statues reflect whatever Hecate (or the equivalent) is currently, and one of the entities is currently Molly. This. In the same way that Dresden used the name Atropos when summoning Mother Winter in Ghost Story. "Old gods do new jobs," as Terry Pratchett put it.
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Jun 15, 2014 00:57
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The odd thing about the bit where Molly uses a phone is that Harry gets paranoid about her keeping secrets from him. quote:I waggled my fist and said, “Come on. You know you want it.” That drew a quick, merry laugh from her. She bumped my fist with hers, and turned away—and as she walked away from me, I saw her pull a cell phone out of her pocket and turn it on. That stopped me in my tracks. I wouldn't exactly call it "hiding things from him" when she uses a phone right in front of him, and the only reason he didn't already know was that he had barely spoken with her since the last book. Apoffys fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 01:15
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Raygereio posted:We didn't see Molly use the cellphone in front her parents. Either she's careful about that or she came up with some lie about a built-in magic circle or something. See, for example, his response to Harry having the mental projection of Lacsiel in his head, which he knows about for several books, but doesn't talk to Harry about until Harry comes to him.
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Jun 15, 2014 01:19
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After reading Skin Game twice, starting a reread at Death Masks I'm now at Turn Coat. Here are some stray thoughts. Harry and Kincaid are Eskimo Brothers now In, I think, Small Favor there is a bit where Bob is reading his harlequin novels and Harry is ruminating on Bob's excited running commentary. He mentions that to an Air Spirit fictional characters could be just as real to him as Harry is. He also comments on how Bob fixates on loving and how mortals procreate. Jim has mentioned in the past that this is related to Harry's age and general temperament when he acquired Bob. It's interesting to read after having read Skin Game and learning of Harry's other daughter. Another Small Favor observation is wondering how Harry's burned hand is acting on its own so well. I'm inclined to attribute it to his Brainchild since we know Lash was truly destroyed by then. There are other moments in Small Favor where Harry seems to have another mental presence. It's tough to parse between Divine Intervention and possible Brainchild foreshadowing though I'll post more when I think of them
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Jun 15, 2014 02:21
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Harry's burned hand can be chalked up to super wizard healing abilities and/or the winter mantle. Lash could never heal his and, but she could, say, make it sound like his guitar was making beautiful music instead of sound like someone strangling a cat. I doubt Brainchild has anything to do it with it (which is a fantastic name btw), it's just that after years of physical therapy bolstered by wizard healing powers (or vice versa, depending on how you wanna look at it, with some extra Winter Mantle mojo, it's back to normal for most purposes.
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Jun 15, 2014 07:09
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SpookyLizard posted:Harry's burned hand can be chalked up to super wizard healing abilities and/or the winter mantle. Lash could never heal his and, but she could, say, make it sound like his guitar was making beautiful music instead of sound like someone strangling a cat. I doubt Brainchild has anything to do it with it (which is a fantastic name btw), it's just that after years of physical therapy bolstered by wizard healing powers (or vice versa, depending on how you wanna look at it, with some extra Winter Mantle mojo, it's back to normal for most purposes. The thing is, the instances I referred to happened in Small Favor, before Harry became the Winter Knight
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Jun 15, 2014 14:39
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Rygar201 posted:The thing is, the instances I referred to happened in Small Favor, before Harry became the Winter Knight Then it's just years of physical therapy courtesy of butters and magical wizard healing abilities.
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Jun 15, 2014 16:42
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SpookyLizard posted:Then it's just years of physical therapy courtesy of butters and magical wizard healing abilities. Reread Small Favor. It's happening outside his control, and he doesn't attribute it to reflexes. It's one of the many things he says he'll look into later and never gets around to explaining in the same book. The closest explanation we get is Uriel saying he have Dresden a hand which I take to reference the Soul Fire hand instead. It's worth pondering I think, if only because it isn't clearly explained in the text
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Jun 15, 2014 16:46
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SpookyLizard posted:Then it's just years of physical therapy courtesy of butters and magical wizard healing abilities. Reread Small Favor. It's happening outside his control, and he doesn't attribute it to reflexes. It's one of the many things he says he'll look into later and never gets around to explaining in the same book. The closest explanation we get is Uriel saying he have Dresden a hand which I take to reference the Soul Fire hand instead. It's worth pondering I think, if only because it isn't clearly explained in the text
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Jun 15, 2014 16:46
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Xtanstic posted:I don't understand what conclusion we're supposed to pull from Molly looking like the Hecate statue. Is it supposed to mean that Molly's transformation to fae is happening faster than we realize? Or does it mean that Molly was always meant to become a fae because of historical incarnations?
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Jun 15, 2014 19:20
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Listening to the audiobook of White Night for the first time and I'm very glad he dropped all the 'Strike you funny' and 'Think you mild spoiler etc' and 'Ask you questions on the way' stuff cause it really stuck out.
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Jun 15, 2014 21:57
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MrGreenShirt posted:A short story entirely from Toot-toot's POV, if only to force James Marsters into doing that voice for the whole thing. I asked for one at a Ghost Story signing so at least the idea's in his head. Though he didn't seem very keen on the idea. He said something about having to drink a lethal amount of sugar to write it. I guess at least now he has more options. It could be a buddy cop deal with Lacuna, a Dirty Dozen spoof where he takes a platoon of other Za-guards on mission, or even a training day with some new recruits.
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Jun 16, 2014 20:35
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Dr. MonkeyThunder posted:I asked for one at a Ghost Story signing so at least the idea's in his head. Though he didn't seem very keen on the idea. He said something about having to drink a lethal amount of sugar to write it. I guess at least now he has more options. It could be a buddy cop deal with Lacuna, a Dirty Dozen spoof where he takes a platoon of other Za-guards on mission, or even a training day with some new recruits. Full Metal Za Guard This is my needle. There are many others like it, but this one is mine. My needle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life. Without me, my needle is useless. Without my needle, I am useless. I must stab my needle true. I must stab harder than my enemy, who is trying to kill me. I must stab him before he stabs me. I will. Before the Za-Lord I swear this creed: my needle and myself are defenders of my court, we are the masters of our enemy, we are the saviors of my life. So be it, until there is no enemy, but peace. Amen.
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Jun 16, 2014 23:14
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ConfusedUs posted:Full Metal Za Guard Toot already did this in Small Favor: "This is my box-knife. There are many who like it, but this one is mine."
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Jun 17, 2014 01:48
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Lord Hydronium posted:On that note, if Hades (the place) and Valhalla are real, does that mean that the Christian heaven exists in the Nevernever too? And theoretically, could you open a Way there if you find the right spot on earth? Oh god, so many potential joke answers: Spearmint Rhino, Liquor Barn, your mom, E3(it definitely wouldn't be heaven when you came back from using mortal magic in the middle of it, twice), an overstock bookstore fire sale, Microwave's mom, free comic book day, next Dresden Files release day... the list goes on. Though in this series if you want to open a way to The White God's domain your best bets would probably be the vestibule of the papal apartments, a small cave south of Jerusalem they used to keep livestock in, the presence of your own newborn child(we're talking hours old, you haven't changed a diaper or missed a night's sleep yet), or Micheal's house. ConfusedUs posted:Full Metal Za Guard But which would be better as Drill Sargent, Toot barking out nonsense with Lacuna rolling her eyes in behind him while the recruits take it deadly serious, or Lacuna saying things that would make R. Lee Ermey flinch while none of them get it?
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Jun 17, 2014 05:06
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Dr. MonkeyThunder posted:But which would be better as Drill Sargent, Toot barking out nonsense with Lacuna rolling her eyes in behind him while the recruits take it deadly serious, or Lacuna saying things that would make R. Lee Ermey flinch while none of them get it? First one, then the other. Bookend the story.
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Jun 17, 2014 06:20
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docbeard posted:So basically everyone's right. Both Sarissa and (presumably) Maeve had this 'dementia', which, in context, is probably a covert reference to their changeling nature. The 'dementia' is Nemesis. Mab and Sarissa were both fully clued into nemesis and Maeve's infection, plus she flat out states she has the same condition as Maeve. Mab cured the Lenansidhe but it was a fairly brutal procedure (lea was fully encased in the wellspring of winter) which would probably have killed a mortal, hence why Sarissa would need to see Mab every weekend for treatment so that adds up too.
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Jun 18, 2014 01:34
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DrFrankenStrudel posted:The 'dementia' is Nemesis. Mab and Sarissa were both fully clued into nemesis and Maeve's infection, plus she flat out states she has the same condition as Maeve. Mab cured the Lenansidhe but it was a fairly brutal procedure (lea was fully encased in the wellspring of winter) which would probably have killed a mortal, hence why Sarissa would need to see Mab every weekend for treatment so that adds up too. No, I don't think Sarissa was aware Maeve was infected by Nemesis. Its definitely Sarissa calling all the Sidhe, and especially Maeve, crazy.
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Jun 18, 2014 03:25
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Raygereio posted:I reckon the cellphone thing was there to point out to both the reader and Harry that Molly is no longer a human wizard and to make Harry fear for Molly's soul/humanity. After all, Harry almost got a happy end and we can't have that. He needs something to angst about. The ladies / queens / crones basically seem like they aren't considered mortal as soon as they get the job, hence why they need the various knights as their minions. 
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Jun 18, 2014 12:26
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I have a feeling that the nature of mortal/human will be a focus at some point. So Molly's humanity / mortality was destroyed when she became the Winter Lady. But will it come back if she ever ends up retiring from the mantle? Then again, are there degrees of mortal? Is a knight less mortal than a wizard, while he has the mantle? Is a wizard less mortal than Murphy? Are Murphy and Michael less mortal than Joe Average who doesn't know about things that go bump in the night? Fae are hard to kill, but not impossible. Is mortal a short hand for "easier to kill" and nothing more? Is immortality and the restrictions that mantles tend to bring part of the same package, or simply two separate features of the jobs the immortals we know have? I mean, we know that Donar Vadderung isn't mortal. We also know that "Odin" has different restrictions to "Kringle". Are there mantles without much in the way of restrictions on action, but with the immortality, or are the two tied?
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Jun 18, 2014 14:04
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Masonity posted:I have a feeling that the nature of mortal/human will be a focus at some point. Do the beings other than the knights actually have mantles, as such? A mantle is something that in principle you could take off or be stripped of, but I'm not sure if becomg part of the Fae as Molly did is something you can really give up. I'm not sure there are degrees of mortality, the way I'd generally take the term mortal is "can die of natural causes/old age". Though I couldn't imagine what would make that property special in terms of the flexibility and free will it gives mortals.
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Jun 18, 2014 14:30
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'Eldest' is apparently one of the more powerful mantles.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:19
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Tunicate posted:'Eldest' is apparently one of the more powerful mantles. Which makes sense, given the long-term popularity of the Three Billy Goats Gruff story.
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Jun 18, 2014 15:25
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