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Just finished season 2 and drat that was a satisfying ending. The addition of the oldies was great and so was the justification for doing so: "oh yeah, old people are invisible to younger people".
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Jun 13, 2014 22:59
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Daya got promoted to regular lol. and they cast Mary Steenburgen!
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Jun 13, 2014 23:03
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ElGroucho posted:I kind of want this show to just be Piper's life getting worse and worse while everyone else has adventures, I could live with that Her life hasn't really been getting worse though, I mean she dodged the perjury and she had nothing to do with Vee. Her "punishment" for writing a newsletter criticizing the administration was to get sent to Martha Stewart's old jail.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:11
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Wouldn't it be extremely difficult to prosecute her for perjury? I mean, the "I do not recall" defense is pretty bullet-proof since no one can actually read your mind. She didn't say "I definitely did not meet him," just that she doesn't remember. For example: Alberto Gonzales.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:30
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Worked for Reagan.
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Jun 13, 2014 23:45
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Just finished Season 2. Overall I liked this season better than the first. None of the episodes felt like they dragged and we got to see more of the other inmates instead of just shoehorning them in around the misadventures of Piper. I will admit that I skipped through any scenes with Larry that didn't really relate to the prison and any Piper and Alex flashbacks because they are boring as poo poo. Thankfully I didn't have to skip too much this time around. Some favourite moments: - O'Neil's banjo-lele song to the nuns - Sad Pennsatucky and Healy sharing a Valentine's cookie - Morello's insane backstory and the confrontation with Christopher - Boo laughingly telling Piper she's a horrible person - Any time Pennsatucky got angry at Brook or the other girls in the laundry - That Golden Girl going to stab Vee only to get the wrong person - Jimmy escaping and sitting in the bar watching Caputo with leaves in her hair - Maritza and Flaca drunkenly kissing and then laughing it off - Boo's talk about "The Gay Agenda" - Gloria's abusive ex getting hit with the Santeria curse - Crazy Eyes punching Piper in the face - Piper yelling at Alex "Get that bug!" - The flaming bag of dog poo - Any scenes with Piper's brother - Rosa's escape and Vee's well deserved hit And of course the things I didn't like: - Anything to do with Daya and Bennett. Good God that couple sucks. It was literally the same thing with them for 13 episodes ending with Bennett choosing to do the stupidest thing possible. I honestly wouldn't care if they just disappeared in between seasons with no explanation. - The next annoying couple on the show, Polly and Larry. Their whole romance is so clichéd and while Piper may have deserved to be cheated on, I just felt really bad for Pete. - BROOK. I know she's supposed to be the new Piper and being annoying is her schtick, but it's not funny to me, it's just incredibly irritating. At least with Piper she had to suffer for her stupid actions. Getting starved out, being served a tampon sandwich, getting hit with pies, having a scary prison wife stalker, going to the SHU twice, almost getting killed by Pennsatucky... It just doesn't seem fair that Brook hasn't had to face any harsh reality yet and continues to waltz through everything like she's at a summer camp. - The Latina girls getting pushed aside. So far we only know about Gloria's background and got to see a little bit of Maria's family, but know virtually nothing about Maritza, Flaca and Flores. Compared to all the backstories we got for the white girls last season and then the black girls this season I'm hoping we'll get to see more of the Spanish group in Season 3. - The under-usage of Laverne Cox! She hardly seemed there at all this season. Anyway I really enjoyed how they ended the season, it was much better than the one before. There was enough closure to events while still leaving you wanting more. Too bad we have to wait another year. 
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Jun 13, 2014 23:57
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Norma was a pop/rock singer in the 70s-80s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdHX3op6Fbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHqpdVNd88g 
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Jun 14, 2014 00:11
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I think I'm the only person who likes Daya and John. A lot of the complaints you guys had about them are fair enough, but I honestly think it's just the writing around them that's making them really suck. They have a lot of potential - we just needed more scenes like that one where Daya was panicking during the storm, and the other guard surprised everyone by being better equipped to handle it than John. I mean, John's adorable but he's also utterly useless. All those boring one-on-one scenes with moody Daya and incompetent John can go. Or at the very least they can be scattered out and mixed in with a bunch of other vanilla moments so that they don't look so bad.
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Jun 14, 2014 01:18
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The surprising thing about Daya and Bennet is how Fig of all people is the one to point out that a relationship between a guard and inmate is automatically non-consensual, and yet their sex scenes are played as no big deal most of the time. Like, did anyone ever doubt Bennet would be automatically forgiven the moment he walked through that door to talk with Caputo?
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Jun 14, 2014 07:12
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So they eliminated every antagonist at the end of this season, including an obvious deus ex machina in the last thirty seconds. Not sure what next season will bring.
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Jun 14, 2014 07:14
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Vee rises from the dead to punch Daya in the belly, then promptly re-dies.
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Jun 14, 2014 07:43
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the posted:So they eliminated every antagonist at the end of this season, including an obvious deus ex machina in the last thirty seconds. Not sure what next season will bring. Caputo will be his own worst enemy.
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Jun 14, 2014 07:46
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Kind of surprised that anyone liked this season. I think back to all of the memorable and surprising stuff from season one and there was none of it in season two. There wasn't anything that could compare to the screwdriver in the pocket sequence, and nothing credibly scary and chaotic like the threat of the screwdriver in general. The after-school-special resolution of the Vee storyline was stupid and juvenile compared to the total violence at the end of S1. It became the usual Kohan babyproofed kiddie poo poo where people's actions don't have moral consequences. (what was the consequence of beating down Pennsatuckey? Nothing? Resolved for no reason, because Suzanne, a truly interesting character from last season, became a generic crazy person?) It was disappointing because so much of S1 was about how Piper, by trying to be diplomatic and please everyone, only ended up putting herself in danger because symbolic stuff like the baptism really mattered to the other inmates. Saying the right words wasn't enough, and her inability to actually stand for something was an enormous liability where simply avoiding different people wasn't really an option anymore (as it is in a big world where you can avoid anyone you want). But then most of the S2 issues seem to be resolved when people involved with whatever conflict find common ground and say the right words to one another, unless they're a true bad egg like Vee. It's feeble. No Wave fucked around with this message at 08:24 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 08:21
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I liked Season 2. Maybe that's because I find Piper's storyline incredibly boring and this season didn't seem to focus as much on her. The ending was great. I don't think this show will ever be in the top tier of TV, but it's consistently good. I hope they continue to focus more on the supporting cast in Season 3.
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Jun 14, 2014 10:00
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Bown posted:Daya got promoted to regular lol. 
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Jun 14, 2014 10:12
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the posted:So they eliminated every antagonist at the end of this season, including an obvious deus ex machina in the last thirty seconds. Not sure what next season will bring. Can you really call it a deus ex machina when the series has essentially been building up to it? I mean it was pretty likely that Rosa would pass Vee on the road (there seems to just be one road leading away from the prison) and it had already been well established that Rosa disliked Vee and no longer gave a poo poo about what she did to anyone. Deus ex machina is reserved for something being pulled out of the writer's arse at the last minute. This was just a slightly coincidental bringing together of the storylines. Thought it was great tbh.
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Jun 14, 2014 10:13
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Steve2911 posted:Can you really call it a deus ex machina when the series has essentially been building up to it? I mean it was pretty likely that Rosa would pass Vee on the road (there seems to just be one road leading away from the prison) and it had already been well established that Rosa disliked Vee and no longer gave a poo poo about what she did to anyone. lol you dont know what a deus ex machina is everyone point and laugh please hah ah ha ha ha
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Jun 14, 2014 14:35
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I hope this series has as many seasons as Breaking Bad, and becomes legitimately as loving intense and crazy, too. I hate the cop-out of bringing Alex back in though. I really like Brooke, she has a lot of potential, and a lot like Piper we saw her slowly breaking down and realize how lonely she is. I actually felt really bad that Piper's realization of how alone Soso/Piper were wasn't to be Brooke's friend. 
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Jun 14, 2014 15:31
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I think it's less a copout and more to do with Prepon not being available during most of the season 2 shooting.
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Jun 14, 2014 15:52
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Steve2911 posted:Can you really call it a deus ex machina when the series has essentially been building up to it? I mean it was pretty likely that Rosa would pass Vee on the road (there seems to just be one road leading away from the prison) and it had already been well established that Rosa disliked Vee and no longer gave a poo poo about what she did to anyone. Yeah, Vee was gone the moment her goons wised up and turned on her. Which was a result of her drugs being stolen. The ending was pretty great.
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Jun 14, 2014 16:18
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Bown posted:I think it's less a copout and more to do with Prepon not being available during most of the season 2 shooting. I thought that she was almost out because Scientology told her she shouldn't show boobies on television.
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Jun 14, 2014 16:24
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No Wave posted:Kind of surprised that anyone liked this season. I think back to all of the memorable and surprising stuff from season one and there was none of it in season two. It's cotton candy poo poo. Every opportunity to have conflict and tension was thrown away within the first minute. Vee is a villain but it's not like she's cunning or interesting and no one seems to care about her intentions. For a "bad rear end" villain, I feel like she would be annihilated in maximum security prison. Also what I don't understand about this season is who are they catering now. This season became more gratuitous which is fine by me ( which sucks the pepron wasn't around) but the storylines were cheesy lovely schlock. The writing just didn't fit with the tone and although it suppose to be minimum security prison, it's too loving bubblegum. Like So-so, meadow or whatever, she was suppose to be there to showcase that piper has grown as a character, but literally that was for maybe 20 minutes between two episodes. Other than that, she's an annoying useless character with shallow hippy jokes attached to her. I'm only on episode 8, but that's 8 hours of my life gone. Is it really worth the next 5 hours for a two minute conclusion that has everyone saying this is a great season?
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Jun 14, 2014 17:43
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bubblelubble posted:I think I'm the only person who likes Daya and John. A lot of the complaints you guys had about them are fair enough, but I honestly think it's just the writing around them that's making them really suck. They have a lot of potential - we just needed more scenes like that one where Daya was panicking during the storm, and the other guard surprised everyone by being better equipped to handle it than John. I mean, John's adorable but he's also utterly useless. All those boring one-on-one scenes with moody Daya and incompetent John can go. Or at the very least they can be scattered out and mixed in with a bunch of other vanilla moments so that they don't look so bad. Your solution for making a lovely couple more likable is to have more scenes of them being a lovely couple? Combed Thunderclap posted:It's absolutely true. I agree that the overwhelming stupidity is actually plausible. That doesn't make it entertaining or endearing.
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Jun 14, 2014 18:49
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ChristianDB posted:I'm only on episode 8, but that's 8 hours of my life gone. Is it really worth the next 5 hours for a two minute conclusion that has everyone saying this is a great season? the truth posted:I agree that the overwhelming stupidity is actually plausible. That doesn't make it entertaining or endearing. This season added nothing to that, but there really wasn't much to add. No Wave fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:45
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Combed Thunderclap posted:Unfortunately, Daya's incessant mood swings and passive-aggressive suggestions that Bennett should go to jail weren't shlock — more like the kind of counterproductive stupidity that I feel could actually happen in real life. The acting was OK, but the constant repetition of their hand-wringing conversations was absurdly awful. I saw it as the opposite, actually. That it wasn't Daya being stupid - it's Daya finally starting to wise up and realize the ramifications of having a baby in prison with the sort of guy who will let himself be seduced by a prisoner. It's slow and stupid in coming because she's young, and moreover she's mentally and emotionally immature for her age. Just look at the lovely manga art she shyly shows off in season 1. Just look at that pregnant horse comic. That is the mental level she's operating at. When she has that conversation with Fig, the subtext is that they're not really talking about Pornstache but about Bennett. Daya flirted because she wanted to feel like a human being, and yet it was still rape because of the power imbalance. That power imbalance is revealed more and more as the season goes on, and Daya finally clues in that 1) she made a stupid decision and is powerless in this situation to correct it, and 2) Bennett made a stupid decision, has some power to correct it, but has proven that he can't be trusted with his power, and 3) her baby is going to suffer one way or another as a result of having two dumbass parents. I wouldn't have necessarily needed to see more with those two this season, but I thought their storyline fit in well with the overarching theme of when it is and isn't in inmates' best interests to trust the system. The show gets us champing at the bit, willing certain characters to stop with the 'snitches get stitches' bullshit and just tell someone in power what's going on, and then introduces a scenario where most of the audience is instead going, "Tell the truth? What are you, crazy?"
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Jun 14, 2014 21:07
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When Daya was talking about her kid having to keep it a secret that Bennett is the father I don't understand why she couldn't just tell the kid that Bennett is the step-father and the real dad is dead or something. Then when the kid's old enough she could tell them the truth. It's not like anyone outside the prison would know or care that it was Daya who was raped by Mendez and besides people lie about their baby daddies to their kids all the time. She could just say that she and Bennett met in the prison and decided to get together when she got out. Or don't even mention prison at all!
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Jun 15, 2014 04:49
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How long was Daya in prison before she got knocked up anyway? She if it was only a few weeks they could have fudged it and said she got pregnant right before.
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Jun 15, 2014 05:06
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bobjr posted:How long was Daya in prison before she got knocked up anyway? She if it was only a few weeks they could have fudged it and said she got pregnant right before. She came in at the same time as Piper.
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Jun 15, 2014 05:10
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I don't understand why they'd have to lie to the kid at all. Would her name even be released to the public? Would anyone care in 6 or 7 years or whenever the kid would be able to understand? Just tell the kid Bennett is his father. No one is going to care or contradict it. The whole storyline turned really dumb.
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Jun 15, 2014 05:14
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nooneofconsequence posted:I don't understand why they'd have to lie to the kid at all. Would her name even be released to the public? Would anyone care in 6 or 7 years or whenever the kid would be able to understand? Just tell the kid Bennett is his father. No one is going to care or contradict it. The whole storyline turned really dumb. Pretty much. Daya's whole insistence that Bennett confess is absurd...she literally wants both of her future child's parents in prison. She can either "lie" and have the father continue to earn money for them, or have her child born into a world where both parents are unemployable felons, one of whom a convicted sex offender. Daya's friends and family are likewise either idiots or totally heartless towards her. They're blackmailing Bennett for free poo poo, but the leverage they're using is telling Caputo the truth. Which, as they are all aware, would involve sending Bennett to prison and thrusting Daya and her future child into poverty. It's one thing if they don't give a gently caress about a C.O.'s life, but they also clearly don't give much of a gently caress about Daya's. Or, more likely, they're just bluffing and Bennett is either too stupid or too cautious to call them on it. Pretty much, gently caress that plot. It's stupid and frustrating at best, mind-numbingly uninteresting at worst. Come up with a plot for Flaca or Maritza to silence some of that bullshit.
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Jun 15, 2014 05:39
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Xealot posted:
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Jun 15, 2014 05:53
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he called them on their bluff eventually too
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Jun 15, 2014 08:22
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nooneofconsequence posted:I don't understand why they'd have to lie to the kid at all. Would her name even be released to the public? Would anyone care in 6 or 7 years or whenever the kid would be able to understand? Just tell the kid Bennett is his father. No one is going to care or contradict it. The whole storyline turned really dumb. Daya and Bennet both seem really stupid. I've never been bothered by their logic because they just seem like two really dumb people trying to make this situation work. I don't know if that's what the show is going for, but that's what I took out of it.
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Jun 15, 2014 09:02
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I think what stopped their storyline from being 100% useless for me was the moments where Bennett would try and assert himself and just came off like a maniac. Sending Maritza to the SHU because he couldn't handle being blackmailed by her is a great prequel to him going batshit in the ghetto later on.
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Jun 15, 2014 10:12
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I think what's important to remember is not just that Bennett winky-winky, nudge, nudge, technically-under-the-law-but-not-really raped an inmate. Those laws are there for a reason. The show draws it up like, "Well, sure, but they're both actually consenting adults." They're not. She's in Prison. He took advantage of his position and had sex with an incarcerated woman. That's unfathomably wrong. "But it's love," the show says. Ugh. Maybe I could ignore the moral implications of the plotline if the two characters actually seemed to like one-another, but they don't. They way don't. They wouldn't even be friends on the outside. So whenever the story comes on-screen, I sigh and wait for something important to happen. Then it doesn't, and I continue regretting not just skipping the plotline entirely. He's a rapist, and she's written as mood-swing: the person. The whole thing is just a sickening mess.
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Jun 15, 2014 10:22
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I see where you're coming from, but I feel like the show knows that, even if the characters don't.
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Jun 15, 2014 10:26
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I enjoyed season 2 overall, but I can already tell this is going to have the same issue I had with Weeds- the characters don't remain interesting over the course of multiple seasons. Season 1- I legitimately enjoyed the characters and their "backgrounds". I wanted to know what all the inmates did to get to prison. But everything is so exaggerated in this show that I start to roll my eyes and it starts to take away my enjoyment. I like that the show overall has a light hearted feel, im fine with that, but it IS prison, and nothing "really bad" ever happens this season. And when things DO go down, there's always a positive resolution for the most part. Season 1 did it much better, piper being starved to death, the vending machine scene when they made the machine out of order and she is pleading for food, thats interesting. Soso and the nun starving herself was......completely uninteresting. That scene where Vee stomps on the broomstick and holds a sharp piece of wood to someones throat felt threatening for just a second, but I feel like the show needs more of that. It needs to make people guess more (who's safe?) I hate that most of the conflicts this season get resolved in a good way. We'll see what next season brings.
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Jun 15, 2014 10:57
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I agree with Bown. Orange is the New Black does a very interesting thing that's extremely rare in television: it lets characters say things that are actually untrue without being lampshaded, or shot in a way that suggests they're wrong, or framed with sinister music. The show doesn't go out of its way to point out what the truth is, it just asks you to draw your own conclusions. Like, in the finale this season, Fig has a dramatic moment where she tells Caputo that sure, she did some bad things, but it was all in the service of keeping the prison running, she'd like to see him do a better job, she really tried hard. The way it's delivered on camera is totally straight: the actor sells it, the camera holds steady on it, there's no sting suggesting that she's lost it and has delusions of her own virtue. We just know she's wrong because she patently didn't try that hard and was unequivocally terrible in an administrative role. If you read the scene in the common parlance of television, it's Fig saying something dramatic to Caputo that we should take seriously, that would force us to reconsider her. In OITNB's language, though, it's just another habitual egotist who's bought in to her own bullshit. There are tonnes of scenes like this with other similarly self-obsessed characters: Larry, Polly, Piper, Alex, V, all have scenes where they give a motive or dramatic speech that is patently self-serving ego balm if you think about it for a second. The show's shot editing treats these moments with almost total impartiality. Part of what makes these characters complex, interesting to watch, or genuinely deceptive is the fact that when they say something that isn't true, we don't get a dozen boilerplate editing cues telling us "this character is lying", or "they don't know what they're talking about". Daya and Bennett is similar. We slowly see that their relationship is hosed up and fundamentally based on a power imbalance, but the show doesn't play oppressive strings whenever Bennett is being unfair to her or give you a maudlin closeup of Daya when she's feeling trapped. We just hear them speak to each other in a way that often doesn't convey a correct apprehension of the situation - although we move towards that over the course of the season when Daya begins to realise and point out just how little power she has in the relationship. It absolutely is messed up that Bennett is carrying on a relationship with her, but Bennett is obviously not in a position to realise that (he's the one in the position of power, and he entered into the relationship in the first place), while Daya is young and immature enough to believe, at first, that she's found real love. We see the relationship only as the two of them, and the people around them, experience it. In other shows there would definitely be framing which suggested more overtly the illicit or unethical nature of the relationship. OITNB knows that it's unethical and illicit, I'm convinced, but this is a show where you just see things happening to people: there's very little non-naturalistic interference from camera or score. Android Blues fucked around with this message at 11:33 on Jun 15, 2014 |
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Jun 15, 2014 11:27
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I finished it last night and one thing confused me in the last episode, maybe I dozed off, but what did Norma and Gloria actually make and throw on Vee? Was it actually arsenic, or some kind of vodoo thing that didnt pan out because Rosa ran her rear end over?
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Jun 15, 2014 15:41
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Khorne Flakes posted:I finished it last night and one thing confused me in the last episode, maybe I dozed off, but what did Norma and Gloria actually make and throw on Vee? Was it actually arsenic, or some kind of vodoo thing that didnt pan out because Rosa ran her rear end over? It was some magic voodoo thing that obviously worked perfectly because Vee got run over.
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Jun 15, 2014 16:08
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