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computer parts posted:When a major part of your argument is "the US is slipping behind other countries". I think monopoly pricing problems would tend towards exactly this situation. Prices can be too high for consumers across the board. Also I have never experienced this magical fishmech world where bandwidth limits are not enforced. Also I don't like how downwithslavery has given the industry shills* a chance to duck those numbers: shareholders are sucking more money out of the telco industry every year than they spend on networks. Name another utility where profit margins exceed capital outlays! *Sorry guys, you are. the "it's not as bad as it looks, honest" posts really dug your graves.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:00
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Why do people use the lower speeds when access to higher speeds is there? Is it because our low speed internet is expensive and our high speed internet is prohibitively expensive? Probably a combination of: 1. Inertia. They're on the same internet they bought in 1998 and it's okay for them. 2. Cost, as you said (though the prices I've seen for DSL are comparable with cable internet). 3. Just low demand. If you're not streaming video or downloading games you can get by with a rather low amount of bandwidth (my parents had a 3Mbit connection from 2005-2011 and it was fine for them; even now they only have an 8Mbit connection). Also DSL providers typically don't have an internet cap so if you really care about your data but not the speed you get it that's an appealing factor (assuming caps are enforced).
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Jun 14, 2014 17:13
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Arglebargle III posted:Also I don't like how downwithslavery has given the industry shills* a chance to duck those numbers: shareholders are sucking more money out of the telco industry every year than they spend on networks. Name another utility where profit margins exceed capital outlays! What is the proper amount for AT&T to spend on its network and why?
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Jun 14, 2014 17:23
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Mormon Star Wars posted:The worst part of the 10gb satellite cap is that the minute you go over it, the connection gets throttled in a way that makes it pretty much impossible to load any but the most text-only websites. Half the time I can't load somethingawful with images off. Satellite systems have caps because it's frankly a hack solution to provide service without any land connections. A million or so subscribers are squeezed together onto about 10 satellites, with limited capacity at every stage. It's this reason that the FCC does not consider satellite internet to count as broadband access when they issue figures on what proportions of the country have access to broadband at various speeds. But even in rural areas, only a small fraction of households are restricted to satellite as their only option, and it's shrinking all the time. The rural access that gets caps is almost always fixed terrestrial wireless operations or satellite. And both of those systems actually have structural capacity limits. Such systems also have caps when they're used in urban areas, because the problems with them don't go away, but that's why people don't bother using them there. Grand Theft Autobot posted:Why do people use the lower speeds when access to higher speeds is there? Is it because our low speed internet is expensive and our high speed internet is prohibitively expensive? Neither, it's because people generally don't bother to upgrade. Also, a lot of people genuinely do not understand what the benefit to them would be to pay more for faster speeds. Arglebargle III posted:
Ohhh yes, the magical world known as the vast majority of American broadband customers. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 18:02
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I think that the primary reason is cost. I put up with absolute bullshit for years from Comcast because I simply couldn't afford faster speeds. Even if I could afford faster speeds, it literally isn't worth it to spend the money, because the speeds offered at premium prices are complete poo poo too. From Comcast today I can get 6 mb/s download for $50, which is laughably lovely. If. I want more speed I can grab 25 mb/s for $67 plus fees. Obviously, I'm not going to pay 70 loving dollars a month for 25 mb/s because I'm not loving brain-dead. $50 for 6 mb/s is unimaginably bad too, but it is as cheap as it goes. It strikes me that ISPs price bullshit speeds at ridiculous prices, and high speeds at also ridiculous prices. If people don't see any good reason to switch to a higher speed, its probably because the marginal value of extra speed is already clearly being subsumed by the price. So they stay at lower speeds not because it is a good value, but because it is literally the only choice.
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Jun 14, 2014 18:41
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:I think that the primary reason is cost. I put up with absolute bullshit for years from Comcast because I simply couldn't afford faster speeds. Even if I could afford faster speeds, it literally isn't worth it to spend the money, because the speeds offered at premium prices are complete poo poo too. From Comcast today I can get 6 mb/s download for $50, which is laughably lovely. If. I want more speed I can grab 25 mb/s for $67 plus fees. Obviously, I'm not going to pay 70 loving dollars a month for 25 mb/s because I'm not loving brain-dead. $50 for 6 mb/s is unimaginably bad too, but it is as cheap as it goes. Have they shut off analog cable in your area yet? You seem to be in a territory that hasn't gotten the DOCSIS 3 upgrades yet, and it tends to follow shortly after they shut off analog cable. (You'll also know it's coming once they start bugging you to swap out your modem, if you haven't just started service). Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 18:49 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 18:44
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:I think that the primary reason is cost. I put up with absolute bullshit for years from Comcast because I simply couldn't afford faster speeds. Even if I could afford faster speeds, it literally isn't worth it to spend the money, because the speeds offered at premium prices are complete poo poo too. From Comcast today I can get 6 mb/s download for $50, which is laughably lovely. If. I want more speed I can grab 25 mb/s for $67 plus fees. Obviously, I'm not going to pay 70 loving dollars a month for 25 mb/s because I'm not loving brain-dead. $50 for 6 mb/s is unimaginably bad too, but it is as cheap as it goes. Paying for speed upgrades doesn't make sense anyway. You won't get your full speed at the "peak hours" (i.e. the hours you actually want to use it) anyway, no one cares about the peak speed at 4am on a Tuesday night. Even people who saturate their connection 24/7 won't be able to make good use of it because of the bandwidth caps (which usually don't increase along with the speed) and only a subset of those people really care about instantaneous speed anyway. If only there was some upgrade I could pay for that would keep my cable from dropping out for 1-2 hours a couple nights a week. I think it might have something to do with humidity/precipiation, but regardless I'm certainly not seeing this miraculous cable network with perfect reliability and 100% of advertised speeds that fishmech keeps talking about. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 19:09
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Paul MaudDib posted:Paying for speed upgrades doesn't make sense anyway. You won't get your full speed at the "peak hours" (i.e. the hours you actually want to use it) anyway Yes you will on most ISPs, including Comcast: http://www.fcc.gov/measuring-broadband-america/2013/February Stop posting lies, friend.
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Jun 14, 2014 19:44
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Paul MaudDib posted:Paying for speed upgrades doesn't make sense anyway. You won't get your full speed at the "peak hours" (i.e. the hours you actually want to use it) anyway, no one cares about the peak speed at 4am on a Tuesday night. If only the FCC had tested actual vs promised speed at peak hours (defined as 7-11 PM local time) and determined that cable providers are right around 97% and most providers are also in that range, with some delivering higher than promised speeds. Oh, wait, they did. It'd be one thing if people were complaining about actual flaws, but could you guys stop posting things that are out and out lies?
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Jun 14, 2014 19:45
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Nintendo Kid posted:Have they shut off analog cable in your area yet? You seem to be in a territory that hasn't gotten the DOCSIS 3 upgrades yet, and it tends to follow shortly after they shut off analog cable. (You'll also know it's coming once they start bugging you to swap out your modem, if you haven't just started service). That happened here in 2008. I live in St Paul. edit: Comcast could offer better speed/price rates, but they have literally no reason to do so. You can either take 6 mb/s for $50, or you can gently caress off. Grand Theft Autobot fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 20:01
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:That happened here in 2008. I live in St Paul. Weird. I have Comcast, and $50 a month nets me 25 Mbps.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:15
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:That happened here in 2008. I live in St Paul. Would you mind posting a screenshot of what you get at http://192.168.100.1/ ? And if there's a link on the resulting page that says "HW/FW Versions", posting that too?
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Jun 14, 2014 20:19
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ayn rand hand job posted:Weird. I have Comcast, and $50 a month nets me 25 Mbps. It is almost like they jack up prices in areas where they don't have competition.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:20
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ayn rand hand job posted:Weird. I have Comcast, and $50 a month nets me 25 Mbps. Are you on an intro deal or a bundle of any kind? I'm mobile most of the day, so I corroborate when I get home. Full disclosure: I was able to get an intro deal from CLink last Fall when they finally established in my hood. I'll have to go back to poo poo in a couple months, unless they take a threat to jump to Comcast (lol) seriously.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:26
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Xae posted:It is almost like they jack up prices in areas where they don't have competition. They have no meaningful competition in the area I'm in - the FIOS expansion permanently halted 3 years ago, and the only other option than comcast is a grip of DSL providers that promise nothing more than 7 megabits per second (and comes with a disclaimer that you might only get 1.5 megabits!) and then only for $35 a month. Yet, the Comcast plan I have is $30 a month and 30 down / 6 up. Which goes to show you that competition doesn't mean jack poo poo for what service you can get.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:27
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Grand Theft Autobot posted:Are you on an intro deal or a bundle of any kind? I'm mobile most of the day, so I corroborate when I get home. Yeah, I'm in a bundle, but that's apparently the price if I were to drop the bundle entirely and move to the package. I can't switch out my ISP because Comcast has a wired line exclusivity deal with my building. That reminds me, I need to call them and threaten a jump to Dish or something because it's about time to reup.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:37
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ayn rand hand job posted:That reminds me, I need to call them and threaten a jump to Dish or something because it's about time to reup. Yep, another fun part of today's cable industry is that your rate doubles after 6 months if you don't call retention and tell them that they are assholes and to keep the rate where it is. Another awesome part of being an American broadband customer.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:55
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down with slavery posted:Yep, another fun part of today's cable industry is that your rate doubles after 6 months if you don't call retention and tell them that they are assholes and to keep the rate where it is. Another awesome part of being an American broadband customer. It's cute that you think this is in any way America only, or even cable only. 
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Jun 14, 2014 20:57
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Nintendo Kid posted:It's cute that you think this is in any way America only, or even cable only. I never said it was, just another lovely thing cable companies do that they shouldn't be allowed to. It's like Verizon forcing me to mail in a rebate for $50 dollars when I buy a phone. It's bullshit business tactics that just take advantage of the people who don't have the time to deal with it (surprise, the poor) I'm sure privately owned ISPs do insane stupid poo poo around the world too, I in no way think America has a monopoly on unethical business practices being pursued by large megacorps down with slavery fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 20:59
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down with slavery posted:I never said it was, just another lovely thing cable companies do that they shouldn't be allowed to It's not lovely, and it's not something they shouldn't be allowed to do. down with slavery posted:It's like Verizon forcing me to mail in a rebate for $50 dollars when I buy a phone. So it's like something completely reasonable? Nice. down with slavery posted:It's bullshit business tactics that just take advantage of the people who don't have the time to deal with it (surprise, the poor) No it isn't. Especially now that they have to list what the terms will be when the introductory period is over.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:01
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Nintendo Kid posted:It's not lovely, and it's not something they shouldn't be allowed to do. Hahaha yes totally legit business tactic. I love even that the salesman when I get my internet tells me "hey, make sure you call in 6 months so you can keep the same rate" awesome way for them to do business. Not. quote:So it's like something completely reasonable? Nice. Yeah, that's a great way to save money as a business, advertise lower prices and then put a heap of paperwork on the back end so x% of the people don't actually get the price. Not shady at all. Totally the world I want to live in. Can't wait to get a mail-in rebate when I buy a bundle of bananas from the grocery store, what a deal! quote:No it isn't. Especially now that they have to list what the terms will be when the introductory period is over. MY GOD THINK OF THE POOR INDUSTRY!! People just need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and read the terms and conditions (lmao)
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Jun 14, 2014 21:03
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Fishmech, what won't you defend? Is Comcast the model US Corporation?
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Jun 14, 2014 21:04
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down with slavery posted:Hahaha yes totally legit business tactic. I love even that the salesman when I get my internet tells me "hey, make sure you call in 6 months so you can keep the same rate" awesome way for them to do business. Not. It is a legit business tactic, it's a drat discount. So you're too stupid to mail in a rebate, and that's what you're upset over? poo poo the dude at the Verizon store will mail it for you if you can't handle placing the thing in the free business reply mail. Once again you're just shrieking for no reason. No one said anything close to your pathetic strawpile.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:05
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Nintendo Kid posted:It is a legit business tactic, it's a drat discount. Do you understand why it's unethical? Like I explained it to you, what don't you get? quote:So you're too stupid to mail in a rebate, and that's what you're upset over? poo poo the dude at the Verizon store will mail it for you if you can't handle placing the thing in the free business reply mail. No I'm quite capable of mailing in a rebate, in fact I do every time I get a phone. What I don't understand is why it's legal for them to advertise a price they aren't going to give me without me filling out a bunch of paperwork and sending them the original UPC when I'm standing in a goddamn Verizon store when I buy the phone. Literally the only reason they do this is so that some people (namely the "stupid" ones- way to be an rear end in a top hat) don't take advantage of it. quote:Once again you're just shrieking for no reason. No one said anything close to your pathetic strawpile. Again with the shrieking, can you keep your sexism to yourself? edit. also still want to know if Comcast is the model US corporation in your eyes, can they do wrong? (hint: no)
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Jun 14, 2014 21:07
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Nintendo Kid posted:It is a legit business tactic, it's a drat discount. It's price discrimination, plain and simple. It is a pricing strategy designed to capture a greater proportion of what would otherwise be consumer surplus, and is a way to increase prices (and profits) at the expense of consumers while offering no additional product or service. Why are you defending this? AreWeDrunkYet fucked around with this message at 21:11 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 21:09
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You must be really attached to those animes comcast streams your way to post so fervently in their defense
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Jun 14, 2014 21:09
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down with slavery posted:Do you understand why it's unethical? It isn't unethical, down with reading comprehension. They advertised the price with a rebate and noted you had to send in a rebate. Your entire complaint about it makes no sense. If you don't like it, don't buy phones that have a mail-in rebate. You're sexist for assuming shrieking is sexist, down with reading comprehension. AreWeDrunkYet posted:It's price discrimination, plain and simple. Which has nothing wrong with it. down with slavery posted:You must be really attached to those animes comcast streams your way to post so fervently in their defense I deal in facts, not opinions, down with sanity. Hence you're baffled by why noone falls for your failed appeals to ignorance.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:09
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Nintendo Kid posted:It isn't unethical, down with reading comprehension. Oh yeah, let me just go and pick one out... oh wait no all Verizon phones have a mail-in rebate because they are a lovely corp just like the rest of the telcos. quote:You're sexist for assuming shrieking is sexist, down with reading comprehension. Hooray for ignorance!
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Jun 14, 2014 21:10
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Nintendo Kid posted:Which has nothing wrong with it. Hahaha what a shithead. FYGM indeed. I guess if you have no problem with predatory business practices and loving the poor at any chance these companies do look pretty swell.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:11
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down with slavery posted:Oh yeah, let me just go and pick one out... oh wait no all Verizon phones have a mail-in rebate because they are a lovely corp just like the rest of the telcos. No one is forcing you to buy the discounted phones. You can pay full price for any phone at the Verizon store.  Yes, hooray for your posting. down with slavery posted:
I'm not ok with that, but that has literally nothing to do with discounts and having to mail in a rebate, friend.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:11
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Nintendo Kid posted:No one is forcing you to buy the discounted phones. You can pay full price for any phone at the Verizon store. You have to pay full price for the phones at the Verizon store. That's my whole point. There is no "choosing to buy a discounted phone" they are all discounted, advertised as such, and have a trail of paperwork once they've gotten you in the door with the price.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:12
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Nintendo Kid posted:Which has nothing wrong with it. Edited this in above, but since this thread is moving fast - it is a pricing strategy designed to capture a greater proportion of what would otherwise be consumer surplus, and is a way to increase prices (and profits) at the expense of consumers while offering no additional product or service. Why would you defend that practice?
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Jun 14, 2014 21:13
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down with slavery posted:You have to pay full price for the phones at the Verizon store. That's my whole point. There is no "choosing to buy a discounted phone" they are all discounted. You can't even keep your story straight between three sentences here. AreWeDrunkYet posted:Edited this in above, but since this thread is moving fast - it is a pricing strategy designed to capture a greater proportion of what would otherwise be consumer surplus, and is a way to increase prices (and profits) at the expense of consumers while offering no additional product or service. Why would you defend that practice? Please describe what you think is the problem. They tell you what the price is going to be when the introductory period is up, that's the law.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:13
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Nintendo Kid posted:You can't even keep your story straight between three sentences here. See the thing is I'm not making a story up I'm talking about reality. You know, where most of us exist. I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about, as you seem to have no problem with just about anything Verizon or Comcast can do. Nintendo Kid posted:Please describe what you think is the problem. They tell you what the price is going to be when the introductory period is up, that's the law. DIDN'T YOU READ THE FINE PRINT?! All hail the mighty dollar
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Jun 14, 2014 21:14
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down with slavery posted:See the thing is I'm not making a story up I'm talking about reality. You know, where most of us exist. I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about, as you seem to have no problem with just about anything Verizon or Comcast can do. You are making up a story. First you claim all of the phones are full price, then you claim all of them are discounted. At least one of these claims has to be wrong, and in reality, they're probably both wrong. Yes you're supposed to read things before signing them. But they openly state "price only good for first x months" in the first place!
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Jun 14, 2014 21:17
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Nintendo Kid posted:Please describe what you think is the problem. They tell you what the price is going to be when the introductory period is up, that's the law. They should be required to clearly advertise the final price up front. The problem is the advertising, not the initial discount.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:17
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Arglebargle III posted:the industry shills* Seriously, everyone stop calling people shills, it's really obnoxious. Even more obnoxious than "Comcast is doing the best they can" or whatever.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:18
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zachol posted:They should be required to clearly advertise the final price up front. They show you what the price after the introductory period is before you actually sign and start using the service. That's more than good enough, especially since the advertising already mentions it's an introductory price (and additionally usually takes the time to mention the offer is only open to new customers or returning customers too). Hell, half the mailers I get these days even list the introductory price in big numbers and then have the "after 12 months" price immediately next to it in smaller numbers.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:19
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Nintendo Kid posted:You are making up a story. First you claim all of the phones are full price, then you claim all of them are discounted. At least one of these claims has to be wrong, and in reality, they're probably both wrong. If only there was some way to classify these providers where we could better regulate their prices and services offered, oh well. XyloJW posted:Seriously, everyone stop calling people shills, it's really obnoxious. Even more obnoxious than "Comcast is doing the best they can" or whatever. What's really obnoxious is people who blindly defend the practices of predatory corporations for no reason other than being a contrarian idiot. How is it debate and discussion when half the people are posting "They aren't" "They don't" "Stop lying" in the face of evidence and support for arguments... it's a joke.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:20
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Nintendo Kid posted:That's more than good enough No, it's absolutely not.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:21
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