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My point is yay France and East Germany and Poland were never compete decks in alb but they saw a lot of play anyway because of deck point balance. Viable incomplete decks made the game more varied. This is no longer the case.
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Jun 14, 2014 05:53
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Infantry in houses are not the problem with Red Dragon. They were actually pretty fun in Airland Battle. I liked the fight for the town in Uppsala (old Gavle) in ALB. The big maps, long resupply lines, lovely AA, and ATGM/tank power creep edges out all the fun bits like Argle said. And they replaced the really really good deckbuilding system in ALB with a lovely one in RD in order to encourage people to use specializations which are still worthless.Arglebargle III posted:My point is yay France and East Germany and Poland were never compete decks in alb but they saw a lot of play anyway because of deck point balance. Viable incomplete decks made the game more varied. This is no longer the case. Yeah the coalition system has made all competitive decks mostly the same, with maybe a few differences in best-in-class units here and there, plus PACT in general gets hosed. I used to think that people prefer NATO because it's more fun due to being more varied, and this was probably true in ALB, but in Red Dragon I think it's because PACT is legitimately harder to play well. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 05:56 on Jun 14, 2014 |
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Jun 14, 2014 05:54
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I just realized that I have yet to actually call in naval troops. But I've had way less free time since RD came out than I did while I was playing ALB--if DLC1 comes out late this month/early July that would be the sweet spot for me actually having time to play with the new fun units.
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Jun 14, 2014 09:00
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The thing about Red Dragon to me is that I feel like they took several steps back from ALB. As much as people say they want a slower pace, I find that even the good games of Red Dragon are plodding affairs that are largely decided by one or two battles rather than the frenetic action of ALB at its best. The unit balance is nowhere near as well thought out, and it feels like Eugen just put in things to change it up. Deck APs are no longer any consideration in deckbuilding compared to managing the limited slots. I think Eugen wanted to make an infantry expansion but knew it wouldn't sell unless they put in the half-baked navy. To their credit, the navy is better than it was in the beta, but it still sucks. Ironically, the game is extremely unfriendly to infantry in most situations and now since 1 point trucks are unavailable, dirt cheap tanks take their place in non-city situations(though the uber-cheap tanks were a big part of the ALB ranked meta, too).
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Jun 14, 2014 12:53
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I just picked up ALB in the steam sale and I have a couple of dumb questions. 1) What do you do with empty humvees once their occupants are dead? 2) I was doing a tutorial mission and kicking rear end, and all of a sudden, despite having quite a few control zones and many req points, I couldn't summon any more tanks. Then I couldn't summon any more helicopters and soon I was reduced to only supply trucks. Can you run out of that stuff?
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Jun 14, 2014 17:11
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MoreLikeTen posted:I just picked up ALB in the steam sale and I have a couple of dumb questions. Send em at the enemy to scout out enemy positions and force them to expend ammunition. Alternatively, ignore them, they don't count against your unitlimit or anything. quote:2) I was doing a tutorial mission and kicking rear end, and all of a sudden, despite having quite a few control zones and many req points, I couldn't summon any more tanks. Then I couldn't summon any more helicopters and soon I was reduced to only supply trucks. Can you run out of that stuff? Yes. When you call in new units, there is a counter next to their veterancy that decreases. If that counter reaches zero, you can't call in any more of that unit.
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Jun 14, 2014 17:24
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MoreLikeTen posted:I just picked up ALB in the steam sale and I have a couple of dumb questions. 1) Some people like to send them forwards as impromptu "scouts" and "tripwires" for incoming enemies. 2) Yes, yes you can. There's a little orange number that says how many of each you have left to call in. e: dammit ^^^
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Jun 14, 2014 17:25
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It's so funny that there's a limit, because in the previous mission I was mashing the m1a1 button with reckless abandon, and in the next mission I ran out after six. I'm glad there's a limit actually, it encourages caution.
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Jun 14, 2014 18:29
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Chantilly Say posted:I just realized that I have yet to actually call in naval troops. But I've had way less free time since RD came out than I did while I was playing ALB--if DLC1 comes out late this month/early July that would be the sweet spot for me actually having time to play with the new fun units. The way I do naval troops is to select the cheapest, highest availability unit and take it as a naval card, then when I call it in swap it out with the unit I actually want in the landing craft.
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Jun 14, 2014 20:48
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Protip: as France you can get a total of four Caesers because you can get two through naval call-ins on landing craft.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:14
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MoreLikeTen posted:It's so funny that there's a limit, because in the previous mission I was mashing the m1a1 button with reckless abandon, and in the next mission I ran out after six. I'm glad there's a limit actually, it encourages caution. When you start getting into multiplayer and building your own decks, you'll see that the limit for each unit depends on what forces you choose to bring. If you want a ton of M1A1s... well, I don't actually remember how many you can get. You can definitely get a lot of Abrams spread out across the different variants.
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Jun 14, 2014 21:31
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In case nobody noticed, the game seems to have been ported to Mac now, which is nice. I can run it on my 2013 Macbook Air without too many problems; on 10v10s, though, I can sometimes drop from games towards the end when there's a ton of units, even on Very Low settings. 4v4s are mostly fine, though.
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Jun 15, 2014 23:47
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Just bought Red Dragon in the sale, had a few questions: How do you access the prototypes, is it through selecting single nation only like in ALB, or through the smaller alliances? Also how come BLUFOR get no cool big ships other than the Kongo? I guess I imagined there would be more than 11 command ships, and more than 30 total given how boats where supposed to be the new thing. I know it doesn't actually make that much difference I just wanted to zoom in and  over new stuff while all my jets die.
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Jun 16, 2014 13:53
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Heliosicle posted:Just bought Red Dragon in the sale, had a few questions: As for prototypes, you can also get them through picking the coalitions, yes. And for boats, well, honestly the naval combat is so bad in a way that has nothing to do with the number of different ships available. They really should have just excluded all the blue-water ships and just went with brown water stuff.
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Jun 16, 2014 13:56
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My entire line of thought for RD is "this sounded better in theory then it turned out to be" The difference between navies and airplanes was airplanes were a direct addition to the existing gameplay, navies are a totally different aspect to the game. There is no way they will be able to make navies fit well given that, you'll always have to have someone dedicated to navy to do it right on any given map. The new nations don't add anything of value outside of China with its few gimmicks like the 2975m ATGM. I know that people like playing their nations and stuff but we really didn't need so many new nations where we could've just made the ALB nationals even better matched instead. The Coalition idea is just bad in practice. It would've been better if they just merged the real minors (Scan, NSWP) into a single deck (just keep the unit flags) and kept nations like France, Germany and the UK separate entities. While I can't say there is anything legit wrong with any of the above, none of it feels like an improvement to what ALB was. Then again, I made a similar post to this before and like I said, I was looking for ALB 2 all along ..so yeah. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 15:09
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Mazz posted:My entire line of thought for RD is "this sounded better in theory then it turned out to be" I feel like the coalition system, and the new nations, would've worked out much better if they'd stuck to the old style of deckbuilding where national restrictions gets you additional activation points. If there were there'd be a greater reason to play National France or Germany rather than just always going for Eurocorps. As it is there's really no reason for me to pick France over Eurocorps, I would've kept playing French national decks if it'd still been giving me the extra activation points instead of losing a couple units per card. I think you touched on it when you mentioned the restrictions on categories earlier, it's pretty common for me to call in almost every infantryman I have, but I don't think I've ever run out of tanks.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:47
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ArchRanger posted:I feel like the coalition system, and the new nations, would've worked out much better if they'd stuck to the old style of deckbuilding where national restrictions gets you additional activation points. If there were there'd be a greater reason to play National France or Germany rather than just always going for Eurocorps. As it is there's really no reason for me to pick France over Eurocorps, I would've kept playing French national decks if it'd still been giving me the extra activation points instead of losing a couple units per card. I think you touched on it when you mentioned the restrictions on categories earlier, it's pretty common for me to call in almost every infantryman I have, but I don't think I've ever run out of tanks. Well, I actually think the availability bonuses are better than any extra AP because the deck slot limit severely limits what you can do with extra AP. The only thing extra APs will do is get me to take a fifth plane because I can pretty much get everything else I want with the standard slot limits and AP. In ALB, APs mattered a bit more because there weren't any slot limits(up to 9 anyway), so the extra APs let you load up your infantry tab or whatever.
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Jun 17, 2014 16:50
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Panzeh posted:Well, I actually think the availability bonuses are better than any extra AP because the deck slot limit severely limits what you can do with extra AP. The only thing extra APs will do is get me to take a fifth plane because I can pretty much get everything else I want with the standard slot limits and AP. Again sticking to the Eurocorps/French comparison, the extra availability just isn't worth it compared to being able to grab German units/prototypes as well. Going French national I can get what, two extra Legionnaire per card or three extra chasseurs? It's really not a big bonus compared to being able to also grab Fallschirmjager and other German units. Under the old deckbuilding system I could use the bonus from going French national to grab another card of units entirely, even if they wouldn't be Legion due to the limited number of cards. I mean, there were a few steps in the right direction, I like the idea of choosing a specialization giving you extra slots in certain categories, but the poor Vehicle tab is still sorely neglected.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:11
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ArchRanger posted:Again sticking to the Eurocorps/French comparison, the extra availability just isn't worth it compared to being able to grab German units/prototypes as well. Going French national I can get what, two extra Legionnaire per card or three extra chasseurs? It's really not a big bonus compared to being able to also grab Fallschirmjager and other German units. Under the old deckbuilding system I could use the bonus from going French national to grab another card of units entirely, even if they wouldn't be Legion due to the limited number of cards. I mean, there were a few steps in the right direction, I like the idea of choosing a specialization giving you extra slots in certain categories, but the poor Vehicle tab is still sorely neglected. There are some coalitions/nations that get decent value out of the VEH tab, but you're right that coalitions are kind of a problem. I just don't think extra APs are of much value in the current deckbuilding system. As long as you're willing not to take a fifth plane you can get anything else you want.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:20
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Deck balance is a big issue leading to early burnout, as well as a meta that favors commando actions and artillery or planes instead of large scale maneuver warfare. It's made the game even more about the opener. Whoever wins the opener can buy artillery or aircraft and there is no real response to either except an investment in support units that aren't direct combat units, and thus do not help at the pointy end. Which leads to little happening. The inability of eugen to properly IE: Not bandaid fix problems with aircraft have lead to extremely constricted availability of both number and cards of aircraft which makes deck building stale. The combination of a 5 unit limit per type, and turning most deck specializations into steaming piles of poo poo has reduced variety heavily. Available slots should go up for picking a national deck, as well as a category deck. National +1 (So 6 instead of 5) Cat B should get +1 (6 in a coalition, or 7 in a national deck) Cat C should get +2 (7 in a coalition, or 8 in a national deck) Typed decks should get availability bonuses in their specialization types, as well as less restricted options in general based on TO&E instead of whatever their "vision" was.
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Jun 18, 2014 02:31
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Panzeh posted:There are some coalitions/nations that get decent value out of the VEH tab, but you're right that coalitions are kind of a problem. I just don't think extra APs are of much value in the current deckbuilding system. As long as you're willing not to take a fifth plane you can get anything else you want. Well I was saying that I preferred the old deckbuilding system and think the coalitions would work better with it, so I agree! Where before there would've been some sort of meaningful trade-off, that's not really the case in most situations now. The difference between two-three squads or access to multiple nations' prototypes is a really easy choice most of the time. I still play national decks occasionally for the fun of it, but balance-wise there doesn't seem to be much of a reason to. Edit: I guess I'm sort-of saying under the current system the national decks need larger boosts, but the whole game needs a pretty big balance overhaul, which is why there are several mods now floating around. ArchRanger fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jun 18, 2014 |
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Jun 18, 2014 03:57
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Uh, the VEH tab is the best tab as far as I'm concerned. Enormous quantities of spammable units giving you large map presence is really hard to counter. As NATO, the VEH tab gives me Ferret Entacs to fast move into the enemy backfield, spamming ATGMs the whole way; 20 point napalm carriers that can wipe out entire towns by themselves; 30-35 point TOW/Milan carriers that can be placed in every treeline in large enough numbers that they'll obliterate cheap units, panic heavy units, and probably wipe them out with flanking shots; 10 point HEAT guns and 15 point RR carriers to eat shots, cover the backfield, and bulk up your forces against infantry and autocannon spam; plus things like dirt cheap non-radar SPAAGs for guarding your air call-in against commando raids; reasonably priced (50-70) HOT/TOW-2 carriers for popping heavy units, and weird poo poo like the Chimera. VEH is my second most used category at 15.9%. Also, mechanized decks are awesome.
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Jun 18, 2014 05:49
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In the absence of a handy-dandy "report" button what's the best way to deal with abusive players in this game? Fools errand, I know, but for the sake of curiosity?
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Jun 19, 2014 02:45
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:In the absence of a handy-dandy "report" button what's the best way to deal with abusive players in this game? Fools errand, I know, but for the sake of curiosity? Put your head out of the window and yell "X is a wanker". (there's also a thread on the official forums somewhere)
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Jun 19, 2014 02:49
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Was browsing another forum when i happened upon this gem: Did not know there was an LMG variant of the G11 in works.
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Jun 19, 2014 03:00
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Inb4 it appears ingame with 90/90 hit chance The DLC is pretty sweet so far from armory inspecting. Availability changes are a necessity though or else the current meta issues will remain an issue despite new units. Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 03:30 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 03:27
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quote:The DLC is pretty sweet so far from armory inspecting. Availability changes are a necessity though or else the current meta issues will remain an issue despite new units. So I have a question for people. What do people like/what works with the new deck/slot system and what do people miss from ALB Shanakin fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jun 19, 2014 |
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Jun 19, 2014 03:33
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Dandywalken posted:Inb4 it appears ingame with 90/90 hit chance Replacement for L. MG3
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Jun 19, 2014 03:37
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Wait did the DLC drop?
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Jun 19, 2014 05:41
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Hob_Gadling posted:Put your head out of the window and yell "X is a wanker". Reporting players for anything other than spamming (which you can mute/ignore) is useless. I can't tell you how many times I TK'd people on the official Eugen 10v10 servers in ALB, and even several times in RD. I've been reported in that thread. Nothing ever happened. Shanakin posted:Well I could tell you that much. Most people could. I actually like the current deck/slot system. My main two complaints are that Coalitions are almost always preferable to a single nation except in rare cases; and Cat. B is still useless and needs more than a +5 AP bump (Cat. C is still useful at a +10 AP bump, and I've had a lot of success with Cat C decks. But it too could use a small buff to make it more appealing tradeoff between advanced units and more cards of weaker stuff.) I surprisingly don't miss much from ALB. The only thing I think I do miss is the smaller map sizes allowing for faster reinforcement.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:44
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Naw, we got the test build yesterday. An early one, I just did some armory browsing. Honestly, I dont do MP outside of Coop but I still like to toe the party line that "Shits too spammable! Radar AA is useless and MANPADS are too good! Infantry veterancy damage bonus is whack! Napalm more like GAYPALM!" The last one hasnt caught on yet, but I'm hoping I can get it to with time.
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Jun 19, 2014 05:44
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For whatever reason I'm finding napalm a lot less frustrating in RD than in ALB
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Jun 19, 2014 06:02
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Less choke-points/longer travel time for planes due to the bigger maps? Some maps in ALB were just right bastards in the opener if one side knew how to time napalm strikes at the right place.
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Jun 19, 2014 06:29
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Leif. posted:I surprisingly don't miss much from ALB. The only thing I think I do miss is the smaller map sizes allowing for faster reinforcement. This is my main issue. I can deal with everything else, but a few smaller maps would be lovely, if only so I dont have to wait 30 minutes for reinforcements to show up.
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Jun 19, 2014 20:28
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Shanakin posted:What do people like/what works with the new deck/slot system and what do people miss from ALB Honestly I think the concept behind the new deck system is flat out better than the ALB one. They just need to work on the implementation. For national decks the availability bonuses could be way bigger. Almost doubled probably. Also I think more units could be prototyped to give players a greater reason to play a nation or coalition over mixed. For specializations I think it's probably more of a matter of just tweaking the units that are available so taking one doesn't cut your choices so badly. For others I think the problem is unit balance. For example armored isn't very good right now because with the current balance you just don't need that many tanks. Fix that and you fix armored. Mechanized is already pretty good but the higher availability on IFVs that's coming with the DLC will hopefully help it. Motorized probably needs +1 xp for infantry. Also I kind of feel like the base AP is a little too high and could probably be cut by 5-10 points to make cat B/C more appealing. Dandywalken posted:Naw, we got the test build yesterday. An early one, I just did some armory browsing. Any chance you could tell us what's in the new armory?
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Jun 20, 2014 01:03
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sgnl05 posted:Honestly I think the concept behind the new deck system is flat out better than the ALB one. They just need to work on the implementation. Do you have any reason behind this opinion?
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Jun 20, 2014 01:28
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sgnl05 posted:Any chance you could tell us what's in the new armory? Sure, but I'm gonna be a human being about it as to not be TOO specific :P Thermobaric bombs Tanks with autocannons (best new model in the DLC IMO) 8 ROF for a tank series that has been sorely in need of it  Land ASHM's NSWP sharing that RPG-29 love TOR's slightly younger brother Those were the first that came to mind
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Jun 20, 2014 01:32
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Dandywalken posted:Land ASHM's Can you get them in naval transports?
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Jun 20, 2014 01:40
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Dandywalken posted:Sure, but I'm gonna be a human being about it as to not be TOO specific :P  its a bit of a shame though that they won't do the Scandinavians in this DLC. You just sort of get the idea that Eugen is really fed up with the entire franchise and are focusing heavily on their next game.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:42
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The worst part of tanks mod is all the dipshits who think destruction is superior game mode to conquest. Seriously they believe that destruction promotes more dynamic gameplay and that it's not broken at all when CVs cost 35 points.quote:Sure, but I'm gonna be a human being about it as to not be TOO specific :P This is beautiful, although I want to see what the Tor's younger brother is.
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Jun 20, 2014 01:44
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