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SpazmasterX posted:Kouta has been using the belt for sustenance for probably way longer than anyone else, which probably has the side effects we're seeing now. Nah, Demushuu was totes Kaito. Roshuo was either Kouta or Takatora. Not sure where Redyue fits into that theory, though. She's apparently female, and Minato, our closest equivalent, honestly doesn't seem like a particularly good match.
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Jun 9, 2014 11:32
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Darth Walrus posted:Not sure where Redyue fits into that theory, though. She's apparently female Wait, what? Of all the things to be surprised by.
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Jun 9, 2014 12:12
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T.G. Xarbala posted:Wait, what? The website and supplementary material apparently mention it. Yeah, I was weirded out too, though you can sort of see it in her armour design.
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Jun 9, 2014 12:16
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Burkion posted:The weird thing is, I get the feeling like...Kouta is still off. I'm not sure what it is, but he still doesn't feel... This is interesting to me. While Gaim does play around with the theme of adulthood, I would venture that Kouta doesn't come off as adult because, first, he isn't portrayed to have responsibilities and duties beyond that of 'occasionally attempting to find a job' and therefore doesn't bear the cost of choice. His older sister, whom he lives with, basically does that all for him. It doesn't help that the fruit bar enables him to run off to do his superherotime. Takatora does come off as adult as he does show responsibility over Micchy, and that he accepted the price of saving humanity as being able to rescue only a part of it. Kouta might demonstrate some maturing within the conflicting "becoming an Overlord" thing that Sagara prophecied, but that might only resolves at the end of the show. Second, a sign of adulthood and maturity is foresight and the capability to plan the means to your ends. Unfortunately, he's written to be just reactive to the plot. I can't remember a specific instance where he was responsible for something except for destroying the Scalar Weapons which imho is more impulsive than mature, rather than an active, willful player in plot advancement. Whatever character advancement there is basically a result of "Sagara gives Kouta a new toy because  ". Even his plans to speak to the Overlords for a solution are inadvertently being carried out by Takatora.
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Jun 9, 2014 14:00
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The parallels between the Overlords and Riders are pretty obvious, considering how, you know, they're coloured the same, and we have had two out of three join up. -Red: Kaito/Demushu. Both really, really like power and social darwinism, but while Kaito has higher values and is blatantly nicer than he tries to sound like, Demushu is obsessed with destruction and rage and ended up getting killed by Kouta. -Green: Micchy/Redyue. Both are manipulative and prefer to work in the shadows. -White: Takatora/Roshuo. Both had the same plan to save their races. Roshuo succeeded...and then realized he shouldn't have, and lost hope and now wants to mercy-kill humanity before they make the same mistake. If Sagara is an Overlord (which I'm not too sure about, he might be something beyond them entirely), then he'd definitely be blue, as Kouta's counterpart.
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Jun 9, 2014 14:00
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SpazmasterX posted:Kouta has been using the belt for sustenance for probably way longer than anyone else, which probably has the side effects we're seeing now. I'd take the crazy theory even further and say that Sagara is actually Future Kouta
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Jun 9, 2014 14:26
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Flat Banana posted:This is interesting to me. While Gaim does play around with the theme of adulthood, I would venture that Kouta doesn't come off as adult because, first, he isn't portrayed to have responsibilities and duties beyond that of 'occasionally attempting to find a job' and therefore doesn't bear the cost of choice. His older sister, whom he lives with, basically does that all for him. It doesn't help that the fruit bar enables him to run off to do his superherotime. Takatora does come off as adult as he does show responsibility over Micchy, and that he accepted the price of saving humanity as being able to rescue only a part of it. Kouta might demonstrate some maturing within the conflicting "becoming an Overlord" thing that Sagara prophecied, but that might only resolves at the end of the show. My bets are on this being totally intentional. Kouta's real challenge isn't in gaining the powerups, it's with using them responsibly--or resisting their temptation.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:24
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Mister Olympus posted:My bets are on this being totally intentional. Kouta's real challenge isn't in gaining the powerups, it's with using them responsibly--or resisting their temptation. This is my actual interpretation. Kouta's trials in the beginning of the show were learning the responsibilities and costs of his power, lessons delivered by Akira, Takatora, and even (sort of) Kaito. The more he took that to heart, the more he was tempted to fall back down under the excuse that it would be necessary. So far, he's been uncorruptible, reluctant to take power and reluctant to use what he has if he thinks there's another way. Sagara scoffs when it's pointed out to him that Kouta's first instinct on learning that the Overlords have the power to solve his problem was not to steal their power, but to ask for it. It's why he always ramps up in fights, because he doesn't want to use more force than necessary. He didn't bother using Triumphant against Demushu until he was convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was no terms to come to with him. Zenith isn't corrupting him (morally, anyway), but it doesn't have to. The temptation now is the Fruit of Knowledge, and whether he even wants it for himself. And Sagara is trying to lead him down that slippery slope, but even now the answer to that question is still "no." He still thinks of Zenith's power as the least he can force himself to grapple with, not something to gain more of. The hell of it is, he may be right about Kaito being a good choice. Or at least, Kaito now. Kaito at the beginning or middle of the show would have been a different story.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:39
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http://bonus--level.tumblr.com/post/80101904935/mighty-no-9-beck-call-in-kamen-rider-armors I found this in Mighty No. 9 backer updates, I thought others might appreciate it. But now I really want to play Mighty Number Gaim. You get lockseeds after you defeat each boss.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:32
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http://comicsalliance.com/kamen-rider-gaim-gotham-city-map-zawame-city/ Oh my god. I feel so dumb for not recognizing the map of Zawame now.
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Jun 15, 2014 21:36
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So what you're saying is that Yggdrasil is Wayne Enterprises?
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Jun 15, 2014 21:50
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Dexie posted:http://comicsalliance.com/kamen-rider-gaim-gotham-city-map-zawame-city/ The best part of this is that the map of Gotham was originally designed for the No Man's Land storyline, which is similar to the situation we're heading into now with Zawame City.
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Jun 15, 2014 21:55
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I'm disappointed Gaim vs Wizard didn't give us one Zangetsu transformation sequence.
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Jun 16, 2014 19:11
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Burkion posted:The weird thing is, I get the feeling like...Kouta is still off. I'm not sure what it is, but he still doesn't feel... I would imagine it's how stubbornly he clings to the idea that he can talk down everyone, how long it takes him to come to terms with the fact Demushu couldn't be talked down and how horrified he seemed at the idea someone like that could exist. In a show targeted towards kids it's understandable to draw that out since kids wouldn't be as like to know just how lovely people can be. He's not jaded enough yet basically. Burkion posted:It's almost like they're trying to provoke some parallels with Kamen Rider Kuuga and his message of power-only Kuuga was brutally honest in that regard. Power, while necessary, is not good. Much like violence. And it can result in some nasty loving poo poo. Kouta hasn't had to deal with his quest for power backfiring in his face yet, and I really hope he does because that's one of the BEST things about Kuuga. Kuuga, like Kouta, sought more power to save lives-and had so much power he accidentally NUKED A PREFECTURE TO DUST. Kouta just gets fancy new toys and it's all cool and awesome. To my understanding Kuuga's power didn't blow up that prefecture, the Grongi's belt exploding because of it's cracked stone did. It exploded more violently than the others of it's rank because Kuuga had destroyed a part of the belt that normally isn't or something if I recall. I could praise Kuuga for many things, and it is a great show, but lessons on the allure of and use of power is not one that would come to my mind. Godai never really has to deal with the implications of the power he obtains and the belt is destroyed at the end of the series with no hint of loss on Godai's part.
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Jun 17, 2014 02:46
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tsob posted:I would imagine it's how stubbornly he clings to the idea that he can talk down everyone, how long it takes him to come to terms with the fact Demushu couldn't be talked down and how horrified he seemed at the idea someone like that could exist. In a show targeted towards kids it's understandable to draw that out since kids wouldn't be as like to know just how lovely people can be. He's not jaded enough yet basically. It would probably take something like the revelation of Micchy's douchiness to snap Kouta out of it. But where do you go from there? Will that even be enough? Who knows, which makes the wait for the next episode a pain to deal with.
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Jun 17, 2014 04:23
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Dante Logos posted:It would probably take something like the revelation of Micchy's douchiness to snap Kouta out of it. But where do you go from there? Will that even be enough? Who knows, which makes the wait for the next episode a pain to deal with. In the short term, Kouta will probably react with sadness and anger. Oh, and denial. He is very good at that one. However, I sincerely doubt that Kouta would permanently give up on Micchy unless he starts killing people. He will ultimately try to save Micchy, even if it is from Micchy himself. That's just who Kouta is, and it isn't really something he should get rid of.
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Jun 17, 2014 04:53
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tsob posted:I would imagine it's how stubbornly he clings to the idea that he can talk down everyone, how long it takes him to come to terms with the fact Demushu couldn't be talked down and how horrified he seemed at the idea someone like that could exist. In a show targeted towards kids it's understandable to draw that out since kids wouldn't be as like to know just how lovely people can be. He's not jaded enough yet basically. Wasn't the entire conversation with Sagara, when Sagara gave Kouta Kachidoki Arms, about Kouta rejecting the rules the adult world had formed? I.e., you have to kill some for the sake of all? Demushu became, well, not even an exception because it didn't care for a single life -- it never shared a common point of belief with Kouta.
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Jun 17, 2014 05:52
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tsob posted:To my understanding Kuuga's power didn't blow up that prefecture, the Grongi's belt exploding because of it's cracked stone did. It exploded more violently than the others of it's rank because Kuuga had destroyed a part of the belt that normally isn't or something if I recall. I could praise Kuuga for many things, and it is a great show, but lessons on the allure of and use of power is not one that would come to my mind. Godai never really has to deal with the implications of the power he obtains and the belt is destroyed at the end of the series with no hint of loss on Godai's part. Actually it's pretty clearly Kuuga's power that does it-reacting with the power of his foes. This is why it keeps happening over and over again afterwards, and why they have to steer clear of populated areas. Also the threat of power *WAS* dealt with. Remember what happened when Godai got pissed off at the porcupine Grongi and savagely beat it to death? He had a flash of the black eyed Ultimate form. The entire point of the Ultimate form was that Godai had to seek that power, not out of anger or rage which was how he was building to it, but out of kindness, sorrow. That's what let him keep control. And when your final ULTIMATE BATTLE ends with two people beating the bloody poo poo out of each other, one laughing and the hero crying, until the hero, stripped of his power, beats the villain who is also stripped of his power to DEATH before collapsing in the blood soaked snow.... Yeah I think there might have been a message or two about why getting more power isn't a good thing.
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Jun 17, 2014 17:37
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Kuuga's the show that supposedly influenced Urobuchi when he was writing Madoka, right? Reading that has at least gotten rid of my assumption that this show would have a happy ending just because it was for kids. VVV Thanks, I'm terrible for mixing names up. Sakurazuka fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 19:08
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Sakurazuka posted:Kuuga's the show that supposedly influenced Urobuchi when he was writing Madoka, right? That would be more like Ryuki, which was also an inspiration for Fate Stay Night. In a fashion anyways.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:28
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Burkion posted:That would be more like Ryuki, which was also an inspiration for Fate Stay Night. In a fashion anyways. I'm watching Ryuki incidentally. Right now though, all I'm getting is notBatman is a rather huge dick.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:40
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Dante Logos posted:I'm watching Ryuki incidentally. Right now though, all I'm getting is notBatman is a rather huge dick. Basically it ties into the not quite apparent until later time loop fuckery that is pivotal to Ryuki, where Fate Stay takes more after the obvious THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE highlander nonsense and the contracting and how the contracting works, minus having sex with your contracted person. Pretty sure the time loop bullshit doesn't kick in til near the end, but Ryuki has like 3 or so different endings because of it. Effectively, Homorua or however her name is spelled is Knight with the power to kickstart the time loop at will. So yeah. And as noted, Kill La Kill 'homaged' OOO final fight pretty hard and heavy.
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Jun 17, 2014 19:47
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So Gaim is fantastic, and it's my introduction to Kamen Rider. Do any other shows in the franchise match, exceed, or even approach its level of quality?
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Jun 20, 2014 23:26
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Darth Walrus posted:So Gaim is fantastic, and it's my introduction to Kamen Rider. Do any other shows in the franchise match, exceed, or even approach its level of quality? OOOs is really hit or miss, where people REALLY love it or REALLY hate it. If you can connect with the main cast, it's really, really good. I've always heard Kuuga is also at the top of the best series, but I haven't seen enough of the series to judge. Anything pre-decade is going to feel a whole lot different than Gaim though.
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Jun 20, 2014 23:30
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I really liked Fourze, even if the ending is both too cliche and not thorough enough.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:39
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Yeah, the older shows, even just shows before Decade, have a whole different feel than Gaim. Gaim is, for all of its quality, kind of strangled by its toyline a lot of the time, especially in regards to power ups and when the hero gets 'em. It manages to get past this more than not, but the effect is still pretty obvious. The older shows clearly had toys, but they also clealry didn't give a poo poo about them and didn't go out of their way to be obtrusive. And then the original shows were just fun 1970s super hero romps. Unless it was Kamen Rider Black which is just a weird and unique show and RX which is a metal hero series.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:54
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Darth Walrus posted:So Gaim is fantastic, and it's my introduction to Kamen Rider. Do any other shows in the franchise match, exceed, or even approach its level of quality? I'd say Kabuto and Ryuki are up there.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:24
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boom boom boom posted:I'd say Kabuto and Ryuki are up there. Id agree with you but Id also be wrong. But I want to agree with you, really I do. Truly.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:37
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Kabuto has some of the best suit designs, Kagami makes a great protagonist and it has an awesome seconday cast, including the secondary Riders.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:43
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Potsticker posted:Kabuto has some of the best suit designs, Kagami makes a great protagonist and it has an awesome seconday cast, including the secondary Riders. Tendou Souji is the protagonist of Kamen Rider Kabuto.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:48
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boom boom boom posted:Tendou Souji is the protagonist of Kamen Rider Kabuto. Now let's not say things we can't take back.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:54
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Double is probably the most solid overall, but it has some incredibly awful episodes. Fourze is unrelentingly optimistic- I'm a fan, but it isn't much like Gaim at all. OOO has what I believe is the best supporting cast of these examples, but frequently the rest of the show is kind of bland. Kuuga is very slow and repetitive, but it makes up for it with the excellent character work all around. Black is a very silly show for most of its run (supposedly because it uses a bunch of generic stock toku scripts), paired with a very intense mc that doesn't really fit. Wizard and Decade are just plain bad. If you want to try anything else, you will have to go through tv-nihon subs, which I do not recommend.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:59
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Burkion posted:Now let's not say things we can't take back. It is undeniably true.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:05
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boom boom boom posted:It is undeniably true. Dude is the title character- giving him status of protagonist is a BIT presumptuous.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:10
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Poison Mushroom posted:I really liked Fourze, even if the ending is both too cliche and not thorough enough. That's because the ending is not in the actual series, but in Movie War Ultimatum.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:12
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Tendou Souji is the comic relief, in Kabuto.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:12
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Burkion posted:Dude is the title character- giving him status of protagonist is a BIT presumptuous. He is the title character. His character arc drives the plot. His tragic backstory is a central part of the plot. The secondary Riders all mirror him in some way, Kagami Arata. By any definition, Tendou is the main character. Compare that to Kagami Arata, the guy whose character arc is more of a character slightly inclined line, who's only affect on the plot is how he effects Tendou, and whose tragic backstory is dealt with 5 episodes in by someone else(the actual main character of the show) Tendou is the main character. If you say it's Kagami you're retarded.
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Jun 21, 2014 02:49
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I just said Kagami makes a good protagonist. Not that he was the protagonist. I was trying to be as positive as possible towards Kabuto, there. Which I thought was quite obvious.boom boom boom posted:Compare that to Kagami Arata, the guy whose character arc is more of a character slightly inclined line, who's only affect on the plot is how he effects Tendou, and whose tragic backstory is dealt with 5 episodes in by someone else(the actual main character of the show) Tendou has no character arc. He starts as the best and ends as the best. He destroys every badguy, even if he has no business doing so and it clips another character's arc. everythingWasBees posted:Tendou Souji is the comic relief, in Kabuto. This is a good post.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:11
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If you're going to watch Kabuto, which I would say is an enjoyable show, stop after the Iron Chef episode or when you see the bunker beach. Just make up some ending in your head and stop there, because it's better than the last bit of the show.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:19
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Potsticker posted:Tendou has no character arc. He starts as the best and ends as the best. He destroys every badguy, even if he has no business doing so and it clips another character's arc. His story is about discovering that he can trust other people,that other people have been through experiences like him and can understand him. He begins and ends the show as the best, but he's still a very different person at the end.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:36
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