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Acebuckeye13 posted:That is so painfully arbitrary I don't even know where to begin. I mean good lord, a US Codex is worth 2 Painboyz but an Australian Codex is worth 3? What are the minimum wages of the two countries in question?
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Jun 17, 2014 07:47
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Wow, 52 pts for a transport with 3 scorchas on it. That's an absolutely sick assault vehicle. Roll it up, drop off da Boyz, flame the gently caress out of other targets. You couldn't ignore 3 flamers, great vehicle to draw fire. I love it already!
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Jun 17, 2014 07:58
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The face on that Painboy seems wrong. Not sure why, but the sweeping cheekbones don't fit Orks at all. On the cost of the codex in Australia, I'd gues that import taxes are way higher on the book than on the model.
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Jun 17, 2014 08:06
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Raphus C posted:What are the minimum wages of the two countries in question? I'm pretty tired so I'm not sure if you're joking or not, but there is no possible explanation beyond "We pick prices by throwing darts at numbers" why a book in the US would cost the equivalent of 2 models from the same manufacturer in US currency whereas the same book in Australia would cost the equivalent of 3 of those same models in their own Australian currency. Edit: I mean hell, just look at all the other relative conversions between books and models. UK Painboy is 15.50, book is 30. EU Painboy is 20, book is 39. Canadian model is 31, book's about 60. It all follows the ~2 models are equivalent in price to a single book, until we hit Australia and New Zealand where it suddenly turns into a 3-1 ratio. What, does shipping books to Australia suddenly cost a hell of a lot more than shipping plastic now? It just doesn't make any realistic or economic sense. Edit Edit: What's even more ridiculous is that the Australian Painboy is priced about the same as the British one, with a rate of 15.50 British Pounds equating to 28.09 Australian Dollars. But when the codex comes into play, the economics fly completely out the window-were the Australian codex to be priced the same as the British one, it would only cost 54.37. Instead it's priced at 83 dollars, a thirty dollar markup in Australian dollars or ~16 pounds. And even ignoring the sane(er) pricing on the Painboy, the "higher minimum wage is the reason why Australian costs are so high" argument is a load of bunk, as the purchasing power parity of the Australian dollar and the Pound Sterling are pretty much the same. It's flat-out highway robbery by GW, and it's no reason why they're getting the poo poo kicked out of them there. Acebuckeye13 fucked around with this message at 08:32 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 08:07
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Raphus C posted:What are the minimum wages of the two countries in question? This always has been, and always will be a poo poo and baseless way to defend extreme markups on products in Australia, and really any other country. The exact same logic says that all the cheap Chinese poo poo America is addicted to should be 5x the price because hey, the American slave wage is much higher than Chinese one. NTRabbit fucked around with this message at 08:26 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 08:11
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Acebuckeye13 posted:That is so painfully arbitrary I don't even know where to begin. I mean good lord, a US Codex is worth 2 Painboyz but an Australian Codex is worth 3? Shipping weight? I dunno. Speaking of price chat, I've been digging away at setting up to play some Heavy Gear Blitz this week, and the prices for that game are pretty comparable to GW's. You've got $50 5-man boxes (metal, though, with worse sculpts), $40-50 for a tank or walker, and they charge like $70 for the core rulebook (Free digital) and $60 for their version of codexes ($20 digital). Anyway, I found the comparison interesting.
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Jun 17, 2014 08:39
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Cataphract posted:Axis of Awesome Holy crap, how did you manage to score that Buckethead LP? Color me green with envy. If I could make it out to the Warhammer World deal I would. I won't be in the EU until sometime next year. 
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Jun 17, 2014 09:05
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Fix posted:Shipping weight? I dunno. Yes, I was going to say that the hardback books weigh a lot so the shipping on them is extreme. Compared to a single plastic mini. And Australian award wages vary by industry but the minimum wage (from July 1st) will be $640 per week.
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Jun 17, 2014 09:07
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Fix posted:Speaking of price chat, I've been digging away at setting up to play some Heavy Gear Blitz this week, and the prices for that game are pretty comparable to GW's. You've got $50 5-man boxes (metal, though, with worse sculpts), $40-50 for a tank or walker, and they charge like $70 for the core rulebook (Free digital) and $60 for their version of codexes ($20 digital). Anyway, I found the comparison interesting. I realize you weren't trying to score a sick rhetorical slamdunk or anything, but the provision of free/low-cost digital rules alone means that at worst their head is significantly less deeply embedded in their rectum than GW's. I don't really know enough about the size and mass of the miniatures in question to say how bad $10 apiece is, but being a relatively small outfit pouring metal gets you some slack already--Reaper is sort of the benchmark in my mind for a mini company that hasn't completely guzzled the capitalist kool-aid and their human-sized metals seem to start in the $6-8 range for relatively simplistic models. (One of the problems with GW in particular is that it seems like the consumer sees very little of their economies of scale and of improvements in material. When PP or Reaper start making models in a cheaper material, the price usually goes down. With GW, it's gone up as they've gone from metal to finecast to plastic.) Woo pricechat 
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Jun 17, 2014 09:21
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Cataphract posted:And Australian award wages vary by industry but the minimum wage (from July 1st) will be $640 per week. Just a big chunk of my Word Bearers army (sans cultists) shipped from Nanjing for half of that, p much owns.  Got a heap of these to use as Helbrutes, think the sizing is fine? 1500pts for me is a stupidly expensive Khorne Zealot, a squad of Terminators (Cataphractii), two Predators (old school), a Helcult (1 Helbrute + 20 cultists) then another 30 or so cultists for troops, then allied in Karanak, 10 Bloodletters, 10 Fleshhounds + a Skullcannon. Might end up switching to Crimson Slaughter and adding in Possessed to take advantage of the skullcannon even more.  Using this badboy as a multimelta, might paint it all hot and fire looking like some sort of heat laser. Karandras fucked around with this message at 09:25 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 09:23
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JerryLee posted:I realize you weren't trying to score a sick rhetorical slamdunk or anything, but the provision of free/low-cost digital rules alone means that at worst their head is significantly less deeply embedded in their rectum than GW's. I don't really know enough about the size and mass of the miniatures in question to say how bad $10 apiece is, but being a relatively small outfit pouring metal gets you some slack already--Reaper is sort of the benchmark in my mind for a mini company that hasn't completely guzzled the capitalist kool-aid and their human-sized metals seem to start in the $6-8 range for relatively simplistic models. Oh yeah, I think they're definitely doing some things right, but like you say, the economy of scale only allows them to go so far with it, and GW is really pressing the advantage there. But I can only heap so much blame on them so far because in terms of sculpting and book art they're at least investing it right back in. Some of Heavy Gear's artwork looks like it came out of a high school notebook, and they've been at it for 20 years. It's nowhere near what GW is doing on setting-building, and you're still buying resin/metal combo kits. DreamPod9 has definitely got the right idea with the digital copies, though. Shame for them that they have to sell indirect. You'd think that bandwidth would be one area where scale would be flipped on its head, but they're probably in a middle ground there. Fix fucked around with this message at 09:41 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 09:30
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Fix posted:Shipping weight? I dunno. I would think shipping volume would probably be more important in a container on a boat. That is higher too though I suppose. Still, it has to be shipped everywhere from where it's printed (China?) the same.
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Jun 17, 2014 09:35
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I have to admit I'm really liking those Orks. I 
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Jun 17, 2014 10:12
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Mango Polo posted:I have to admit I'm really liking those Orks. I I came close to picking up a Morkanaut today and then I reminded myself that I just built a stompa that needs to be painted as well as 2 battlewagons, a trukk , 6 koptas, 9 bikes and 50 more boyz.
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Jun 17, 2014 11:31
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starkebn posted:I would think shipping volume would probably be more important in a container on a boat. That is higher too though I suppose. Still, it has to be shipped everywhere from where it's printed (China?) the same. That's what gets me. If it's going by boat from China, the "shipping costs" logic would mean that the UK would be the most expensive due to the longer distance. The US and Canada would probably be cheapest followed by Austrailia, probably. But that's not the case. And it still doesn't explain why models are similarly expensive everywhere yet the AU book is massively inflated.
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Jun 17, 2014 12:45
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I think the books are printed in China, right? and the models are manufactured in the UK? Not that that explains anything, if true, the logic just does not follow in any link of the chain.
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Jun 17, 2014 12:53
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Import duty might be higher on books than plastic...things.
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Jun 17, 2014 12:59
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Lungboy posted:Import duty might be higher on books than plastic...things. Seems unlikely, given the raw quantity of plastic goods shipping out of China on a daily basis. That said, not producing plastics in China probably cuts down on the amount of counterfeiting they have to deal with significantly. Also it would likely be smarter/more cost effective to do print runs of the books in the countries they'll be sold in. Books are dense as gently caress and shipping them is expensive.
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Jun 17, 2014 13:29
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This is going to make me get back into the hobby isn't it.
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Jun 17, 2014 13:42
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Just picked up 2 battlewagons, 3 sets of grots and a weirdboy. Here's hoping they don't nerf this poo poo out of battlewagons. Not super worried because the old codex is so bad I'm not thinking there's too much to nerf (lol nids).
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Jun 17, 2014 13:59
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Ignite Memories posted:Holy poo poo, that painboy is like 2nd edition ugly. I think you mean Rogue Trader awesome  
adamantium|wang fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 14:00
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Beer4TheBeerGod posted:This is going to make me get back into the hobby isn't it. Judging by your avatar/text combo? Yes.
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Jun 17, 2014 14:07
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I'm a little confused by the Mek model by himself. Are Mek Boys going to be their own thing now as opposed to when you just took Meks with KMBs in the last codex? Also while cheap Killkannons are cool it looks like you can take ten point Deffrollas on the looted wagons as well now. CyberLord XP posted:Just picked up 2 battlewagons, 3 sets of grots and a weirdboy. Here's hoping they don't nerf this poo poo out of battlewagons. Not super worried because the old codex is so bad I'm not thinking there's too much to nerf (lol nids). I guess at this point it's too late to hope for an updated buggy model, huh. :/ SRM posted:Yeah, but Unbound is kind of a cool thing for that. Orky Seej Kompany with tons of mek guns and gunwagons second edit because i am really excited about posting today BULBASAUR posted:Deffrollas? Go old skool: Power Player fucked around with this message at 14:12 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 14:07
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Yeah, I shouldn't have said bad, just outdated. It had it's day. I'm wondering if looted wagons will be a dedicated transport option (they are for lootas in dreadmobs).
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Jun 17, 2014 14:19
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CyberLord XP posted:Yeah, I shouldn't have said bad, just outdated. It had it's day. I'm wondering if looted wagons will be a dedicated transport option (they are for lootas in dreadmobs).
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Jun 17, 2014 14:23
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TheChirurgeon posted:That said, not producing plastics in China probably cuts down on the amount of counterfeiting they have to deal with significantly. You mean the part where practically everything GW and FW makes is readily available from China for 1/3 of the price, and the process is so well organised that any of the new Ork items should be available for purchase about 1-2 months after their official retail release? I'm not sure that moving their own production to China could actually increase the amount of counterfeiting from what it is right now.
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Jun 17, 2014 14:25
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Power Player posted:All I honestly want out of this codex is for trukk-lists to be viable again and for bikes to stay the same/not get nerfed because I need to have my 150 point 6-toughness Power-Klaw Ork Warboss on a bike regardless of what kind of list I make. The only reason I'm not crazy for this myself is because pretty much the only Ork things I don't have are bikes and Trukks (my poor wallet).
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Jun 17, 2014 14:31
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CyberLord XP posted:The only reason I'm not crazy for this myself is because pretty much the only Ork things I don't have are bikes and Trukks (my poor wallet). EDIT: By that I mean trukks, not bikes. Bikes are still really good right now. Power Player fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jun 17, 2014 |
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Jun 17, 2014 14:37
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Power Player posted:That may just be my own bias but I do feel as if they got hit the most with the rules changes. Honestly I would be pretty shocked if bikes didn't get a decent point reduction. Which would make them pretty gross.
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Jun 17, 2014 14:40
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NTRabbit posted:You mean the part where practically everything GW and FW makes is readily available from China for 1/3 of the price, and the process is so well organised that any of the new Ork items should be available for purchase about 1-2 months after their official retail release? It could always be worse, and the counterfeit items be of a higher quality. Think less "recasting" and more "stealing the moulds."
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Jun 17, 2014 15:04
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Any chance that you will be able to make a Dread Mob in the new codex, or can you still use the FW rules with the new codex? Basically, I'd like an all walker Ork army including Kanz, Dreds, *orkonauts and a Stompa 
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Jun 17, 2014 15:06
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TheChirurgeon posted:It could always be worse, and the counterfeit items be of a higher quality. Think less "recasting" and more "stealing the moulds." Well, I guess the only way it could be worse is if the counterfeiters were actually selling injection moulded ABS counterfeits instead of resin recasts of hard plastic parts, their resin reproductions of finecast are already significantly higher quality, and the Forgeworld copies are on par with the originals or better. Edit: Here, have some WIP Gorgon Terminators 
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Jun 17, 2014 15:08
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The Gorgons look really cool and show how dumb and doofy the Tartaros poo poo looks.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:25
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TKIY posted:Any chance that you will be able to make a Dread Mob in the new codex, or can you still use the FW rules with the new codex? Isn't this exactly why Unbound exists? Related: at this point, what are the odds that a new Boyz kit is on the way? Or a new buggy? Those kits (though recut, iirc) are from the mid 90s, right?
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Jun 17, 2014 15:26
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Sulecrist posted:Isn't this exactly why Unbound exists?
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Jun 17, 2014 15:29
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TKIY posted:Any chance that you will be able to make a Dread Mob in the new codex, or can you still use the FW rules with the new codex? Well, with Unbound you can do whatever you want. Nothing's stopping you! Who knows, they might even keep it so Big Meks let you take a Deff Dread as a troops choice. In that case, you could take two meks with two Dreads, load up the heavy support slots with all the other walkers you want, and if you're feeling really randy, ally with yourself for more of the same!
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Jun 17, 2014 15:33
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Power Player posted:The Boyz kit was from the last codex, so they're not that old. The buggy kit is SUPER old and I'm really surprised that there hasn't been anything about updating that. Maybe next week? I kinda doubt it at this point, though. Yeah but the last Codex was 3rd Edition and came out like 15 years ago. I think the box originally had 16 or 20 and the sprue was recut to 10 (I might be making this up) but I don't believe the models themselves have changed since I was in middle school. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I don't play Orks but I'm putting together a Kill Team, starting with the Kommandos I ordered from Two Feet From Bread.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:33
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Sulecrist posted:Yeah but the last Codex was 3rd Edition and came out like 15 years ago. I think the box originally had 16 or 20 and the sprue was recut to 10 (I might be making this up) but I don't believe the models themselves have changed since I was in middle school.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:34
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Power Player posted:The last codex was fourth edition, and it came out in 2008. I think I either misunderstood what you meant by "last" or there were two Ork codexes that came out while I was out of the game. (I dropped out of the hobby in late 2007/early 2008--did the current one come out in 2011ish?) Either way I haven't seen in person the sprues in the 10-man kit so maybe they're all new and I just have rose-colored glasses re: the 90s kit.
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Jun 17, 2014 15:40
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Sulecrist posted:I think I either misunderstood what you meant by "last" or there were two Ork codexes that came out while I was out of the game. (I dropped out of the hobby in late 2007/early 2008--did the current one come out in 2011ish?)
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Jun 17, 2014 15:43
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