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Angry Grimace posted:You're talking about a different card and deck, though. I was (trying at least) to talk about the "dies to doomblade" argument specifically. It's brought up from time to time, but it doesn't make sense. It completely dismisses a card because it can be removed. Just because it can be removed does not mean it won't see play. E: I referred to the wrong card so let me fix that. Angry Grimace posted:Dies to Doom Blade and doesn't do enough after that to be all that playable because then you're paying 11 mana to get a single 3/3 vanilla token. I can't fathom a scenario where I'd rather have Soul rather than Hydra Broodmaster. Soul of Zendikar has reach and can block fliers and gives value when in the graveyard. It dies to doom blade and then later you have a flash creature. Hydrabroodmaster also dies to doomblade, and can be killed during its monstrosity activation, also wasting a buttload of mana. Either way I'm not predicting this is the next big control/ramp finisher or whatever, but I don't think the "dies to doomblade" argument is a good way to evaluate a card. Bread Set Jettison fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 20:34
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I was (trying at least) to talk about the "dies to doomblade" argument specifically. It's brought up from time to time, but it doesn't make sense. It completely dismisses a card because it can be removed. Just because it can be removed does not mean it won't see play. If you opponent manages to get you to spend 11 mana on a 3/3, he's probably winning. "Dies to Doom Blade" is a perfectly relevant observation that people just don't like because its a catch phrase that dismisses pet cards. You could phrase it "too expensive of a card with no evasion" I guess, but that's just semantics. Polukranos doesn't protect itself, either, but it also is a 5/5 for 4 with a potential board-sweeping upside. There's a reason why Obzedat, Blood Baron and Stormbreath Dragon are all staples in this Standard block - because they have some kind of relevant protection and/or do something when they hit the field. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 20:42
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Bread Set Jettison posted:I was (trying at least) to talk about the "dies to doomblade" argument specifically. It's brought up from time to time, but it doesn't make sense. It completely dismisses a card because it can be removed. Just because it can be removed does not mean it won't see play. "Dies to Doom Blade without giving value" has been historically a large knock against 5+ costing creatures, especially in control. It's the reason a card like Kalonian Hydra hasn't seen any play and the only exceptions I can think of are Serra waaay back in the day when there wasn't anything better, and Meloku in CoK era standard, and it was possible to play Meloku around removal by just playing it when you could bounce some lands and get some guys.
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Jun 20, 2014 20:55
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Elyv posted:"Dies to Doom Blade without giving value" has been historically a large knock against 5+ costing creatures, especially in control. It's the reason a card like Kalonian Hydra hasn't seen any play and the only exceptions I can think of are Serra waaay back in the day when there wasn't anything better, and Meloku in CoK era standard, and it was possible to play Meloku around removal by just playing it when you could bounce some lands and get some guys. Therein lies the problem for me - the 3/3 beast after Soul dies isn't terribly great value. Ideally, you'd prefer to cast something better (e.g. an Arbor Colossus).
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Jun 20, 2014 21:01
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Promoted Pawn posted:And in the end everything dies to Storm. Entropy wins. Yeah but storm dies to Flusterstorm. ... wait.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:06
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Yeah I don't think it's facile to say 'an expensive creature needs to be best-in-class or have some kind of spell-like impact when you cast it to justify playing it into efficient removal'. That's what 'dies to Doom Blade' is actually supposed to mean, and it's why things like Polukranos now (or Baneslayer back in the day) succeeded despite dying to Doom Blade.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:14
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Dies to a Timewalk'd Birds of Paradise
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Jun 20, 2014 21:20
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Stinky Pit posted:Am I reading right that bots are buying Vintage Masters boosters at nearly eight dollars, has anyone actually seen that in the wild? The best buy price I've seen is 7.20 and that was yesterday, briefly. Now looks like most bots are steady at around 7 on their buy prices.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:24
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Attorney at Funk posted:Yeah I don't think it's facile to say 'an expensive creature needs to be best-in-class or have some kind of spell-like impact when you cast it to justify playing it into efficient removal'. That's what 'dies to Doom Blade' is actually supposed to mean, and it's why things like Polukranos now (or Baneslayer back in the day) succeeded despite dying to Doom Blade. Baneslayer also went from 50$ to like 10$ after Jace the Wallet Sculptor dropped. It didn't study for the Jace test. 
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Jun 20, 2014 21:25
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TheKingofSprings posted:Baneslayer also went from 50$ to like 10$ after Jace the Wallet Sculptor dropped. Nobody passes the Jace test, except for Bloodbraid Elf wrecking the curve.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:40
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Do they no longer sell those ~50 card booster packs? The shop I went to today didn't know what I was talking about. I remember them from around Onslaught.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:44
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Rinkles posted:Do they no longer sell those ~50 card booster packs? The shop I went to today didn't know what I was talking about. I remember them from around Onslaught. They were called tournament packs, and no, they no longer sell them.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:47
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Rinkles posted:Do they no longer sell those ~50 card booster packs? The shop I went to today didn't know what I was talking about. I remember them from around Onslaught. The term you're looking for is Starter pack or Tournament pack. And no, they don't make them anymore. edit: Sealed is just played with 6 boosters these days, and if you're just looking for one to crack you get more value out of cracking 3 boosters instead. The only thing you're missing is the basic lands.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:47
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Soul of Phyrexia 
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Jun 20, 2014 21:54
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Attorney at Funk posted:Nobody passes the Jace test, except for Bloodbraid Elf wrecking the curve. Solemn Simulacrum passes, Thragtusk passes, the majority of the titans, Huntmaster of the Fells, all of these are problematic if Jaced.
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Jun 20, 2014 21:55
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Has this argument achieved BINGO yet?
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Jun 20, 2014 21:56
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Jesus Christ, how did Onslaught come out 12 years ago? Sorry, I just never felt the weight of time as strongly as just now.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:05
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Rinkles posted:Jesus Christ, how did Onslaught come out 12 years ago? Sorry, I just never felt the weight of time as strongly as just now. It's cool bro, we'll get together and play some ONS block sealed with 1 Onslaught tournament pack and 1 each of Legions and Scourge boosters like god intended. Also damage on the stack because that's just the way Morph was meant to work dammit.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:09
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Rinkles posted:Jesus Christ, how did Onslaught come out 12 years ago? Sorry, I just never felt the weight of time as strongly as just now. Right? This kind of thing happens to me all the time, to me "old" cards are just cards that are older than Tempest.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:11
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Promoted Pawn posted:Also damage on the stack because that's just the way Morph was meant to work dammit. Wow I just realized why damage on the stack matters. Morph got super nerfed by that change. Would it clear all damage once it's morphed because the dealt damage would have been to the 2/2?
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Jun 20, 2014 22:12
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legoman727 posted:Soul of Phyrexia Soul of Phyrexia with casting cost WUBRG would be awesome.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:12
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Mortimer posted:Wow I just realized why damage on the stack matters. Morph got super nerfed by that change. Would it clear all damage once it's morphed because the dealt damage would have been to the 2/2? No, the damage would still be dealt, but it was relevant for cards like Wall of Deceit.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:13
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Promoted Pawn posted:It's cool bro, we'll get together and play some ONS block sealed with 1 Onslaught tournament pack and 1 each of Legions and Scourge boosters like god intended. That would be great, friend, but my entire collection from that period was stolen. It was devastating. Part of the reason I quit years ago. Promoted Pawn posted:Also damage on the stack because that's just the way Morph was meant to work dammit. I'll have to read up on the change.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:15
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Rinkles posted:I'll have to read up on the change. Some rules changes since Onslaught: Damage no longer goes on the stack, so you can't do things like block a 2/1 with a Sakura-Tribe Elder, get a land, and kill the 2/1 with the damage. Mana Burn no longer exists(RIP Spectral Searchlight )Planeswalkers exist Legendaries work differently Enchant Creature/Land/whatever is no longer a type; instead, some enchantments have the type enchantment - aura and then have the ability "enchant creature" or whatever Elyv fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Jun 20, 2014 |
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Jun 20, 2014 22:23
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Elyv posted:Some rules changes since Onslaught: The Legend Rule was changed twice even.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:25
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Elyv posted:Some rules changes since Onslaught: Thank you. How do Legendaries work now?
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Jun 20, 2014 22:27
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Rinkles posted:Thank you. Each player can have a given copy of a legendary permanent(so, for example, both you and your opponent could have a Kamahl, Pit Fighter in play with no problems). In addition, if you control two Legendary permanents with the same name, instead of both hitting the graveyard, you choose which one dies.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:31
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Current Legend Rule is that no 2 Legendary Permanents with the same name can exist on the same side of the Battlefield. So if you have say a Nykthos and your opponent plays one nothing happens but if you play a second one (and there are actually reasons you would want to do so) you have to chose one of those permanents to keep and sacrifice the other. Planeswalkers work the same way with a small difference. They work off Subtype instead. So you can't have 2 Chandras going at the same time regardless of their actual name.
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Jun 20, 2014 22:31
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Dear Something Awful Forum Software, Please do not eat my posts. I am certain that it is not healthy for you. We care about you. Signed, Cernunnos
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Jun 20, 2014 23:47
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I love MtG. I played Standard from Alara block to Scars of Mirrodin but haven't touched it since and I sold off every single card I own since "I'll never want to play this again". I want to play this again! Card protectors are annoying and most people that play MtG are gross. Any reason NOT to get back into this with MtG:Online? No dwindling population issues or reasons why it would be less fun? Planeswalker question: Can my opponent and I each have a Jace? Or is that part of the Legendary rule still around?
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Jun 20, 2014 23:48
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:
Yes, you can each have a jace.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:01
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:I love MtG. I played Standard from Alara block to Scars of Mirrodin but haven't touched it since and I sold off every single card I own since "I'll never want to play this again". Yes, you can have a Jace TMS and so can your opponent.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:02
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:
Real life people are funnier to watch when you play a deck that pisses them off. You can call slow play IRL if your opponent sits there staring at a freshly wiped board with no lands until the timer runs out. You probably won't get called a 'human being' in person. I play paper only, but I'd recommend, if you're going modo, to try to complete 4x paper sets and redeem right before windows close for that. Also, if you play paper, too, I'd recommend ridiculing people with anime titty alters and sleeves. Call judges, because gently caress 'em.
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Jun 21, 2014 00:23
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Oh Grand Prix, you're a special kind of hell that still somehow winds up being enjoyable.... Came THIS close to scoring two byes in a side event. I'm running the white anthem deck I posted a while back (albeit tweaked a bit). Launch the Fleet is getting poo poo DONE. I would have taken the whole thing if I had drawn my next land just one turn sooner against control to drop my last one-drop that turn and swing for lethal the next....instead he survived at 4 life  . Glad to see they still side into Brimaz and Archangel of Thune, that actually favors my deck very heavily since I have more removal than they expect.Oh well, I won half a booster box and was able to get all my poo poo signed by the artists while it's still relatively quiet. Not bad for $5 (they give you a $15 voucher to use on side events when you preregister, kind of nice). Peter Mohrbacher is kind of a dick, though. His disdain for the players is pretty palpable, clearly just showing up for a paycheck. Swanland and Rush are cool guys, though, I spent a while talking to them between rounds. The line for Steve Argyle was atrociously long.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:07
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Peter Mohrbacher is kind of a dick, though. His disdain for the players is pretty palpable, clearly just showing up for a paycheck. Swanland and Rush are cool guys, though, I spent a while talking to them between rounds. The line for Steve Argyle was atrociously long. Well that's kinda lame since he's got some pretty cool card art. What'd you have him sign?
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Jun 21, 2014 01:17
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Cernunnos posted:Well that's kinda lame since he's got some pretty cool card art. What'd you have him sign? All my Brimaz and Foil Gavony Townships. And I think he did Swan Song.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:58
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On the advice of LSV I ended up building Meliraless Melira Pod on MODO. I think it cost roughly twice what vintage dredge would which is kind of funny. I think the fetches cost nearly as much as the entire vintage dredge deck would have.
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Jun 21, 2014 04:43
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rabidsquid posted:Meliraless Melira Pod
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Jun 21, 2014 05:03
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It's nothing but value. I want to make workshop online but wastleland is more than half the cost of the deck.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:22
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BaronVonVaderham posted:Oh Grand Prix, you're a special kind of hell that still somehow winds up being enjoyable.... Just got home from doing two grinders at the GP, also won half a box, but didnt get any buys which is what I was hoping to get. Oh well.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:31
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