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Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

Pagan posted:

I consider stock removal knife making to be kinda cheating, but it's still something you should try. I've made two knives that way, and even though there was only a little forging, I'm glad I was able to practice handle making and sharpening. One of the posts I read on a smithing forum said that making wooden knives or swords was good practice. After all, if you can't make it out of wood, you'll never make it out of metal.

Stock removal helps teach one pretty awesome skill to have with less chance of screwing yourself over: grinding and sanding. The more metal you have to play with as you remove things down, the more practice you can get so you get a more precise and even grind/finish.


As for airflow, pure coal requires far far more air than charcoal does. Charcoal will happily run off a 120mm computer fan, and using a hairdryer or a shop-vac can be overkill depending on your piping setup. The bituminous coal and coke I use won't. I use a hairdryer with it, tho I really need to rig it to a foot pedal rheostat. A constant running high flow air setup will eat through coal like crazy.

I also have a Champion blower but my rivet style forge can't really accommodate it. I'm going to experiment with a flat forge and a side blower since I can set up something like that. Going to make a pit of firebrick essentially.

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rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome
ok welp drilling & filing it is thx guys

Ambrose Burnside
Aug 30, 2007

pensive

Pusheen plaque is done. wasn't feeling great about it til I did the final surface texturing and detailing. the cat mostly has the 'original' repousse texturing, planished down and evened out somewhat, 'cause i thought it worked well, and my texturing punches need a heavy hand that would've collapsed the cat body. in retrospect I could have backed the plaque with thermoplastic instead of pitch and done it but I'll try that next time. kinda screwed up the patina, I hadn't worked with diluted liver of sulfur before and didn't get the look I was going for but didn't have time to redo it. it's fine, though.

Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jun 11, 2014

p0stal b0b
May 7, 2003

May contain traces of nuts...
So I just started an introductory course in arc welding (stick, MMAW, SMAW, why do we need so many names?), & after a couple hours of theory, we got to practice. But not just any practice, we got to practice on a Lincoln Electric Vrtex 360 virtual reality welding simulator, one of only 5 or so here in NZ. That thing is wicked sweet. You weld with a VR headset & motorized rod holder, which retracts the rod to simulate it being consumed, & it scores you out of 100 in work angle, travel angle, arc length, speed, accuracy, & accurately models heat transfer, spatter, flux inclusions, etc. Then it graphs all this info over time so you can see your progress over the course of the weld in all factors. The amount of useful info this thing records is mind-boggling, especially when it comes to identifying & fixing technique errors. Today we start welding for real, but we'll get another chance to go back to the simulator later, which I imagine will help correct any bad habits we might pick up along the way...

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

p0stal b0b posted:

So I just started an introductory course in arc welding (stick, MMAW, SMAW, why do we need so many names?), & after a couple hours of theory, we got to practice. But not just any practice, we got to practice on a Lincoln Electric Vrtex 360 virtual reality welding simulator, one of only 5 or so here in NZ. That thing is wicked sweet. You weld with a VR headset & motorized rod holder, which retracts the rod to simulate it being consumed, & it scores you out of 100 in work angle, travel angle, arc length, speed, accuracy, & accurately models heat transfer, spatter, flux inclusions, etc. Then it graphs all this info over time so you can see your progress over the course of the weld in all factors. The amount of useful info this thing records is mind-boggling, especially when it comes to identifying & fixing technique errors. Today we start welding for real, but we'll get another chance to go back to the simulator later, which I imagine will help correct any bad habits we might pick up along the way...

That sounds like it's more likely to create bad habits than correct them. There is no substitute for actually burning rod on steel since a computer simulation that could predict every possible occurrence of what happens when welding is going to cost a hell of a lot more than most schools that actually teach welding invest in the program. Especially since every welding machine is different even in the same models, and anything you're likely to actually work with in the field is likely going to be 20 years older and in far worse shape than what your school has. (I learned this the hard way going from newish machines at school into a job with welding machines made in the 60s)

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Yeah I gotta think that you'll get better practice from fifty bucks' worth of scrap 1/8" plate and a box of rods than from any VR simulator.

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

Sagebrush posted:

Yeah I gotta think that you'll get better practice from fifty bucks' worth of scrap 1/8" plate and a box of rods than from any VR simulator.

I actually just watched the demo video from LE, and the view inside the helmet looks nothing like it does when I'm welding with a real MIG welder.

I won't lie, the system looks neat and they compare it directly to a video game, but I still stand by the statement that it doesn't replace the real deal.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple derangement syndrome

Sagebrush posted:

Yeah I gotta think that you'll get better practice from fifty bucks' worth of scrap 1/8" plate and a box of rods than from any VR simulator.

I dont know anything about this setup but I do know that simulators of this class for physical skills are used for training people who aren't learning correctly. The instructor gets to look through your eyes and identify what you're doing wrong as you're doing it, instead of after the results are apparent. Everyone says "well, you just need to practice more" but it can be a very useful tool for people who just aren't getting it for whatever reason.

I make no claims about cost-effectiveness.

p0stal b0b
May 7, 2003

May contain traces of nuts...
Yeah, you're all right, it's not so much a learning tool as a diagnosis/correctional tool. We got to run 1 fillet bead with it at the end of the first theory night, & all the rest of the classes are practical, welding in the shop. I just thought it was a pretty neat bit of kit, & a useful application for VR.

I seem to be doing better than most of the class so far, but I put that down to having a bit of practice at home, & having an auto-darkening helmet. Those things make learning so much easier. Also the fact that I started practicing a while ago in my poorly-lit garage with a cheap buzz-box using damp 2.4mm rods on 3mm plate stuck in a vice with nowhere to brace myself on. Working in a nicely lit shop with good kit after that is a picnic. :)

ArtistCeleste
Mar 29, 2004

Do you not?
I have never heard of a VR for welding. I'm a little skeptical about it's value for practicing, but I could see how it could detect things, like the angle you are welding at, that an instructor may not see.

I too have decided to learn to be a better welder. I am looking into better welding courses. I know that there is at least one operation near me that offers free coursework and certification for women, but I don't know the details of such a course.

I am about to set up a studio visit with someone I am acquainted with who owns a stair railing/gate company. I am very interested in getting my C-23 Ornamental Ironwork Contract License. The coursework available for getting the license goes over a lot of the math, fabrication and finishing, safety, and install techniques. I am getting more interest in my work and I want to be legitimate. I also know that I could use help with the engineering/structures sides of things. I have been reading books on the subject, but there is no substitute for hands on experience. Besides, I can't find any books that cover the kinds of practical things I want to know.

ductonius
Apr 9, 2007
I heard there's a cream for that...
All this talk of VR welding reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygcm0AQXX9k

High dynamic range (100,000,000:1 contrast ratio) binocular cameras for welding. The last half of the video has some pretty impressive video.

p0stal b0b
May 7, 2003

May contain traces of nuts...
Now that is pretty cool.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer
I am looking to buy a TIG welder just to do little stuff with aluminum and learn with. Four or five years ago I bought a cheapo plasma cutter off of ebay, and it's served me pretty well even though I've broken everything and had to modify scrounged consumables for it. Would this TIG welder work for me? http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-AMP-DC-...=item2ec8dfccfd

I already have a buzz box, so the more expensive three in one deal isn't that appealing.

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

Hu Fa Ted posted:

I am looking to buy a TIG welder just to do little stuff with aluminum and learn with. Four or five years ago I bought a cheapo plasma cutter off of ebay, and it's served me pretty well even though I've broken everything and had to modify scrounged consumables for it. Would this TIG welder work for me? http://www.ebay.com/itm/200-AMP-DC-...=item2ec8dfccfd

I already have a buzz box, so the more expensive three in one deal isn't that appealing.

Looks legit, but if you've never welding on aluminum before, make sure you have a ton of scrap to practice with. Aluminum goes from not enough heat, to welding good, to puddle of molten aluminum with-in just a couple amps. We had an old wire feed MIG welder when I did engineering work for a tool and die group, that we'd have to spend 10 minutes welding scrap just to make sure the machine wasn't going to freak out and melt holes through our expensive cast aluminum parts.

ductonius
Apr 9, 2007
I heard there's a cream for that...

No. You need AC to do aluminum. That welder appears to be DC only.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Yeah, you can't do aluminum with just DC. Search for AC TIGs if you want to get into that. I personally don't find aluminum to be significantly harder than steel -- you need better heat control and a good eye for the weld puddle, yes, but the process is the same. Really thin stuff (<20ga) can be a pain if your machine doesn't have a good stable arc, but hobbyist stuff with 1/8 or 3/16 is not bad.

I have one of these http://www.amazon.com/Everlast-Powertig-Micro-Welder-Inverter/dp/B0081BEOD4 and I absolutely love it and definitely recommend it, but I don't know if $900 is in your price range. For what it's worth, the cheapest Miller or Lincoln AC TIG is going to be around twice that, and they hold their value.

Kasan posted:

We had an old wire feed MIG welder when I did engineering work for a tool and die group, that we'd have to spend 10 minutes welding scrap just to make sure the machine wasn't going to freak out and melt holes through our expensive cast aluminum parts.

I loathe doing aluminum with a MIG gun. When you get the settings dialed in perfectly, it is fast and works well enough. If you're off even a tiny little bit, your wires are just exploding all over the place and jamming the gun again and again and again. Screw spool guns.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 06:17 on Jun 21, 2014

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer
Thanks for the heads up, Sagebrush, your machine led me to this guy: http://www.amazon.com/AHP-AlphaTIG-200DX-200-Amp-Welder/dp/B00EL8UQH4/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top it looks like it comes with a few accessories that the Everlast 185 doesn't come with (regulator, foot pedal and stick holder). Not sure how much I should care about that.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

I'm not familiar with that model, but the reviews seem to indicate that it works fine. It looks to be at least twice the size of my Everlast machine, which may or may not bother you (I really like the portability a lot because of the sort of work I do with it). IIRC my machine did come with a regulator, albeit nothing fancy, but it didn't come with the stick holder or pedal. I actually find myself using the torch switch more than the pedal these days (welding big awkward frames at weird angles is a pain in the rear end with a pedal) and stick capability is nice to have in theory though I've never actually used this machine for that purpose...but both are good accessories to have for sure as long as they aren't total crap quality or something.

If you get one, let me know how it is.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jun 21, 2014

Wicaeed
Feb 8, 2005
Maybe related to this thread:

How does one go about getting a custom piece of metal fabricated?

I have a computer chair whose arms I have removed, leaving two slots that I can mount something in. I would like to have something fabricated that I can then use to put a HOTAS joytick/throttle combo on each side of the chair for my flight sim sperging.

The more I think about it the more I realize I have absolutely no idea how to even begin making something to accomplish this.

ductonius
Apr 9, 2007
I heard there's a cream for that...

Wicaeed posted:

How does one go about getting a custom piece of metal fabricated?

I would look into taking the arm-pads off and seeing if there's a metal plate inside that you can screw/bolt some plywood to. What you're looking to do might not seem complicated, but shop time is expensive and you could be looking at 2-3hrs work for what you want, which will be $200-400 all said and done.

If money is no object then call around to welding shops in your area to find one that does small jobs. Go to visit (bring the chair), talk to them and work out a design. They may be able to build it while you wait. Bring cash.

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

ductonius posted:

I would look into taking the arm-pads off and seeing if there's a metal plate inside that you can screw/bolt some plywood to. What you're looking to do might not seem complicated, but shop time is expensive and you could be looking at 2-3hrs work for what you want, which will be $200-400 all said and done.

If money is no object then call around to welding shops in your area to find one that does small jobs. Go to visit (bring the chair), talk to them and work out a design. They may be able to build it while you wait. Bring cash.

Check your local community college as well. Some welding and machinist instructors don't mine taking ideas and getting students to work on projects as long as you're willing to supply the raw materials.

ArtistCeleste
Mar 29, 2004

Do you not?

p0stal b0b posted:

Yeah, you're all right, it's not so much a learning tool as a diagnosis/correctional tool. We got to run 1 fillet bead with it at the end of the first theory night, & all the rest of the classes are practical, welding in the shop. I just thought it was a pretty neat bit of kit, & a useful application for VR.


Are you taking classes just to learn p0stal bob, or are you trying to get your certification? Does anyone else here have certification or experience within a fab shop? Didn't someone here attempt to start a welding business?

I am definitely interested in getting better at welding. I have heard of programs that are 4-6 weeks that prepare you for basic certification, but I can't seem to find any. I can only find 4 year vocational programs. The C-23 is also a certification that is supposed to come after 4 years of vocational training. I am currently doing blacksmithing full time, am teaching a lot and I have quite a few commissions lined up. I don't think I want to give it up for a vocational program that does not fit in very well with my current path. I am trying my best to do this legally. I may have to just subcontract under someone with their license for the installation process.

Has anyone had experience with subcontracting? I am not sure how that works.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer

Sagebrush posted:

I'm not familiar with that model, but the reviews seem to indicate that it works fine. It looks to be at least twice the size of my Everlast machine, which may or may not bother you (I really like the portability a lot because of the sort of work I do with it). IIRC my machine did come with a regulator, albeit nothing fancy, but it didn't come with the stick holder or pedal. I actually find myself using the torch switch more than the pedal these days (welding big awkward frames at weird angles is a pain in the rear end with a pedal) and stick capability is nice to have in theory though I've never actually used this machine for that purpose...but both are good accessories to have for sure as long as they aren't total crap quality or something.

If you get one, let me know how it is.

I went ahead and ordered the AHP tig welder, off to the gas supply place tomorrow to pick up an argon bottle. What's a good size to start out with? Do I really need a diamond wheel to grind tungsten? The cheapest wheel I found was like $140 or so.

The youtube tutorials I've found say you should just try and make 100 or so straight lines without using a rod, and then doing it again with the rod before actually trying to do anything.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

150 cubic feet is a good place to start I think. It's a good balance of price and weight if you're doing this as a hobbyist. If you're doing regular fab work in a static location, get the biggest one you can handle obviously.

If you want to know how long the bottle will last, divide its capacity by the desired flowrate and subtract somewhere between 5% and 20% for the postflow depending on how often you stop and restart the arc. Eg: you have a 150 cubic foot bottle, your flowrate is somewhere between 15 and 20 cfh, at the upper end that's 7.5 hours before the bottle is empty, subtract 20% and you have a minimum of around 6 hours of arc-on time from that bottle. This is why the small bottles aren't really worth it: a 40cf will last like an hour and a half.

You don't need a diamond wheel to grind tungstens -- any regular black wheel will work. Obviously the wheel needs to be dressed and you should be letting the wheel do the cutting, not shoving the tungsten into the face...that will definitely groove up your wheels something awful :iamafag:. Something around 150 grit is a good start. Finer wheels leave a better finish but take longer to grind off the junk that you'll inevitably get on the electrode all the time when you're learning, so don't go too fine.

Since you'll need to buy electrodes, I recommend the 2% lanthanated ones (blue top). They work equally well for DC and AC and you sharpen them the same way for both techniques. The 2% thoriated electrodes (red) are cheaper, but they only work well for DC and the grinding dust is mildly radioactive. The pure tungsten electrodes (green) that used to be the standard for AC are not suitable for the inverter machines and will just get burnt up into nothing, so don't even try.

And yes, you should definitely try and make 100 lines and practice getting a nice pool and keeping the torch height and angle consistent. Then make 100 lines with filler, practicing getting the torch out of the way of the bead as it grows, because if you touch the electrode to the workpiece it's contaminated and you'll quickly see the arc degrade and become useless. Start will steel and move on to aluminum when you've got the technique down.

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

ArtistCeleste posted:

Are you taking classes just to learn p0stal bob, or are you trying to get your certification? Does anyone else here have certification or experience within a fab shop? Didn't someone here attempt to start a welding business?

I am definitely interested in getting better at welding. I have heard of programs that are 4-6 weeks that prepare you for basic certification, but I can't seem to find any. I can only find 4 year vocational programs. The C-23 is also a certification that is supposed to come after 4 years of vocational training. I am currently doing blacksmithing full time, am teaching a lot and I have quite a few commissions lined up. I don't think I want to give it up for a vocational program that does not fit in very well with my current path. I am trying my best to do this legally. I may have to just subcontract under someone with their license for the installation process.

Has anyone had experience with subcontracting? I am not sure how that works.

Here's the quick and dirty about welding certifications: They don't matter. Any place you try to get gainful employment that involves any amount of serious welding, will require you to take THEIR welding test prior to being employed. The fancy pieces of paper that you get saying you're accredited or certified might get you the interview a few bodies ahead of some schmuck off the street, but in the end your ability to lay a bead with out serious defect is really all that matters.

I would however check your local state regulations. Some states might require you to hold a certification with a third party (usually AWS in the united states) to be able to "legally" offer welding services, but most states don't.

Honestly your best method of experience would be to buy a welder, weld the poo poo out of scrap metal and do your own destructive testing to gauge your progress. The easiest method of destructive testing is to cut through the center of your weld with a band saw, and to etch the steel with ferric chloride (or even coke works if you leave it over night). You can see most of the major defects (slag inclusion, porosity and improper weld penetration) doing this, and as long as you can manipulate the metal with a saw, works for just about any weld type. Once you can consistently test pieces and not find the evidence of defects, you're good to spend the dime and take a national certification. Just make sure you practice the weld type for the certification your going for. It wouldn't make much sense to practice nothing but flat butt welds when you're trying to get your 6G certification. (Open root, 60 degree fixed position pipe)

ArtistCeleste
Mar 29, 2004

Do you not?
Thanks Kasan. I weld all the time, and have regular access. But the only classes I have taken have been TIG I and II (32 hrs of class). And I am still terrible at it, because I never practice. My MIG welding skills are what I care about. I know plenty of welders, so I guess if classes don't matter I will pay one of them for a bit of time walking me through the important stuff and research the standards for a professional welder.

Mostly I wanted the class to legitimize myself. I don't think a certification is required for starting my own ornamental business or for working for someone else.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer
So I got that AHP TIG-200X, and went over to the welding store and got me an S bottle.

I tried to make beads on 1/8" thick mild steel and I'm obviously doing it wrong:




I set the machine to start at 10 amps, main amps at 125 (0.001" / amp right?) and tried (and failed to keep a good speed).

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Well TIG welding is hard. Those are just tracing the torch across making lines without any filler metal, right? They aren't terrible for a first attempt. Your main issue it looks like is keeping the movement steady and even -- that's a new type of motor skill you need to learn, though, so a learning curve is expected. Doing that one plate puts you about 0.001% of the way to mastery of the process, so keep going. Do at least half a dozen more plates like that before you start poking around with the filler metal, and then another dozen or so with the filler, and so on.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer

Sagebrush posted:

Well TIG welding is hard. Those are just tracing the torch across making lines without any filler metal, right? They aren't terrible for a first attempt. Your main issue it looks like is keeping the movement steady and even -- that's a new type of motor skill you need to learn, though, so a learning curve is expected. Doing that one plate puts you about 0.001% of the way to mastery of the process, so keep going. Do at least half a dozen more plates like that before you start poking around with the filler metal, and then another dozen or so with the filler, and so on.

Thanks for the encouragement, I see the stack of dimes welds and compare it to mine and I'm like, this sucks rear end. And yes, no filler material.

I ordered some more stock to practice with. I figure I'm in it for $750 for the welder. $170 for a 5 year lease on an S bottle, and $56 for an Argon fill for the first charge. I guess I better try to get good at it, but boy does this stuff add up quick. I already had a helmet, my Hobart Solar helmet actually had me seeing spots, but I think that's cause I didn't have it in enough light to charge the solar thing. The cheapo sleazeball helmet with the coin cell lithium though worked like a champ.

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

Hu Fa Ted posted:

I set the machine to start at 10 amps, main amps at 125 (0.001" / amp right?) and tried (and failed to keep a good speed).

Holy balls, that's your problem. 125 amps will melt through a quarter inch of steel in no time flat, let alone 1/8th.

If all you want to do is practice laying beads of metal, or hell, just practice the movements and not waste filler rods (You can carry a weld pool with out applying filler metal with a TIG torch), set that bad boy to cap out at 45A and go to town on that sucker.

I don't recall, is it foot petal or torch operated? If it's foot petal, practice finding the sweet spot in terms of amps. Takes a lot of practice to walk, talk, chew gum, and not go blind in the process.

Also desired degree of penetration really determines the "thickness" of what you're welding. That unit says "3/8 mild steel with a 7018/6013" in reality, you could probably get enough penetration to do 5/8ths easy.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Hu Fa Ted posted:

Thanks for the encouragement, I see the stack of dimes welds and compare it to mine and I'm like, this sucks rear end.

I am a teacher, and this attitude from my students always baffles (and somewhat angers) me. Yes, your work does suck rear end compared to that done by an expert with thousands of hours of practice over decades of experience. Why do you think it wouldn't? You have, like, an hour invested in this so far. The people who do the perfect gorgeous fishscale welds have been working for a very long time to build their skills to that level. Getting frustrated that you can't pick up the machine and make perfect welds right off the bat is kind of insulting to the experts in that regard.

Not mad, just pointing out that it's going to take a while to learn, and you shouldn't be discouraged any more than you would say "this will never work" after trying to play a guitar for a couple of hours and failing to produce amazing music.

Note: I am not a professional welder. I sometimes luck into a couple of inches of nice stack-of-dimes weld and that makes me happy, but for the most part I hack around and make stuff that is strong enough for my needs and looks alright but not spectacular. It's always a learning process.

e: oh ha yeah I glossed right over your power settings looking at the pictures. Bring that waaaay down, especially if you're going slow while you're learning. Half that much current is a good place to start with 1/8" plate.

TerminalSaint
Apr 21, 2007


Where must we go...

we who wander this Wasteland in search of our better selves?
I've heard it said that it takes about a mile of welding before you're decent.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer

Kasan posted:

Holy balls, that's your problem. 125 amps will melt through a quarter inch of steel in no time flat, let alone 1/8th.

If all you want to do is practice laying beads of metal, or hell, just practice the movements and not waste filler rods (You can carry a weld pool with out applying filler metal with a TIG torch), set that bad boy to cap out at 45A and go to town on that sucker.

I don't recall, is it foot petal or torch operated? If it's foot petal, practice finding the sweet spot in terms of amps. Takes a lot of practice to walk, talk, chew gum, and not go blind in the process.

Also desired degree of penetration really determines the "thickness" of what you're welding. That unit says "3/8 mild steel with a 7018/6013" in reality, you could probably get enough penetration to do 5/8ths easy.

I guess I misunderstood the amp / thousandth rule? 1/8" is 0.125, which tells me 125 amps? I guess that means you need 125 amps for full penetration? This particular model has both a hand switch and a foot switch, I was using the foot switch. I saw the arc light off at 10 amps pretty well, and can get that going easy enough.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer

Sagebrush posted:

I am a teacher, and this attitude from my students always baffles (and somewhat angers) me. Yes, your work does suck rear end compared to that done by an expert with thousands of hours of practice over decades of experience. Why do you think it wouldn't? You have, like, an hour invested in this so far. The people who do the perfect gorgeous fishscale welds have been working for a very long time to build their skills to that level. Getting frustrated that you can't pick up the machine and make perfect welds right off the bat is kind of insulting to the experts in that regard.

Not mad, just pointing out that it's going to take a while to learn, and you shouldn't be discouraged any more than you would say "this will never work" after trying to play a guitar for a couple of hours and failing to produce amazing music.

Note: I am not a professional welder. I sometimes luck into a couple of inches of nice stack-of-dimes weld and that makes me happy, but for the most part I hack around and make stuff that is strong enough for my needs and looks alright but not spectacular. It's always a learning process.

e: oh ha yeah I glossed right over your power settings looking at the pictures. Bring that waaaay down, especially if you're going slow while you're learning. Half that much current is a good place to start with 1/8" plate.

I don't mean to imply that I should be able to weld like that by the way. I meant to say, I've seen the perfect weld a professional TIG welder can do and my initial welds don't even look anything like that. It's pretty stark really. I'm not trying to imply I should be able to do that off the bat. I know welding is hard and people dedicate their lives to making safe, quality welds. It should be obvious to me that there's no way in hell that I can do that so I'm not sure what to say.

Thanks again for the comments. Everything is a learning process and this stuff requires a lot of technique and I can see that.

Sagebrush
Feb 26, 2012

Well there's a couple of factors. First of all, those sort of rules are for production work where you're moving at a good clip and trying to keep up with an assembly line or something. When you get good at it, you might be moving along about 10 inches a minute, so only 5-6 seconds per inch. Moving into new metal that fast needs more power. You are likely moving much more slowly, which gives the arc more time to blow through a given area.

Second, the usual work method wouldn't have you drawing lines up and down the same piece over and over again -- you'd finish the weld where it needed to be done and move on to the next piece. In this case, a fter you've welded a couple of lines, you've effectively preheated the plate, which has the effect of reducing the power you need for the same weld.

Finally, in a real weld the filler metal has a pretty powerful cooling effect on the pool, to the point where you'll often get the filler rod stuck to the plate when you're learning to TIG. When you don't have the thermal mass and cooling effect of the additional filler, you don't need as much power to keep the pool going.

All this kind of stuff is why welding in general, and TIG welding in particular, takes a while to learn. Keep at it.

Hu Fa Ted posted:

I meant to say, I've seen the perfect weld a professional TIG welder can do and my initial welds don't even look anything like that. It's pretty stark really.

They won't! No more than your first noodling on a guitar would sound like Eric Clapton. But that is totally normal so just keep practicing and eventually you'll get something that looks nice.

Sagebrush fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Jun 27, 2014

Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

TerminalSaint posted:

I've heard it said that it takes about a mile of welding before you're decent.

I can vouch for this. I've only been welding for about 4 year and I know I still have a long way to go in terms of technique and consistency.

Sagebrush posted:

Finally, in a real weld the filler metal has a pretty powerful cooling effect on the pool, to the point where you'll often get the filler rod stuck to the plate when you're learning to TIG.

Also this. If you get sticking with a stick electrode, that's a little bit different, but same principle. (and with a TIG rod, you at least aren't causing the electrode to cook. I had a welding rod heat up to the point the flux exploded off it and the copper on the stinger fused to the steel because I didn't know what the hell I was doing despite being shown by a teacher. Fun times :v: )

Kasan fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Jun 27, 2014

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer

Sagebrush posted:

Well there's a couple of factors. First of all, those sort of rules are for production work where you're moving at a good clip and trying to keep up with an assembly line or something. When you get good at it, you might be moving along about 10 inches a minute, so only 5-6 seconds per inch. Moving into new metal that fast needs more power. You are likely moving much more slowly, which gives the arc more time to blow through a given area.

Second, the usual work method wouldn't have you drawing lines up and down the same piece over and over again. After you've welded a couple of lines, you've effectively preheated the plate, which has the effect of reducing the power you need for the same weld.

Finally, in a real weld the filler metal has a pretty powerful cooling effect on the pool, to the point where you'll often get the filler rod stuck to the plate when you're learning to TIG. When you don't have the thermal mass and cooling effect of the additional filler, you don't need as much power to keep the pool going.

All this kind of stuff is why welding in general, and TIG welding in particular, takes a while to learn. Keep at it.


They won't! No more than your first noodling on a guitar would sound like Eric Clapton. But that is totally normal so just keep practicing and eventually you'll get something that looks nice.

That's a really good metaphor by the way. Keep that one in stock for the next guy like me that comes along.

Pimblor
Sep 13, 2003
bob
Grimey Drawer
I reduced power to 45 amps and tried again before work:



Am I going down the right track now?

p0stal b0b
May 7, 2003

May contain traces of nuts...

ArtistCeleste posted:

Are you taking classes just to learn p0stal bob, or are you trying to get your certification? Does anyone else here have certification or experience within a fab shop? Didn't someone here attempt to start a welding business?

Yeah, just learning so I can make some stuff I've been wanting to build for a while, mostly distressed industrial furniture & art lamps, that sort of thing.

In course news, using iron powder electrodes to weld a fillet joint between round pipe & flat plate sucks serious arse. They put out so much metal & heat, & starting a new electrode to weld around the base of a curved pipe while trying to keep the right work & travel angles feels like trying to forge a signature with a paintbrush on the end of a 10 foot pole whilst whistling God Save The Queen in a minor key standing on one foot.

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Kasan
Dec 24, 2006

Hu Fa Ted posted:

I reduced power to 45 amps and tried again before work:



Am I going down the right track now?

Those are some gorgeous looking beads. Sans filler metal right? Looks like your well on your way. Don't forget, you can grind off your welds (or surface it if you have a mill) and reuse your coupons to save on metal. In a welding shop, there is no such thing as scrap metal, only previously used metal.

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