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Advent Horizon posted:Rebranding isn't going to fix that, at least if you keep the name. Do people really think of a font and a logo when the name American comes up, or do they think about that one time they hosed a flight attendant on an empty flight? Customer Experience matters much more than a logo. That's a good point. When doing a rebranding, ya gotta change everything. The reason behind this is because the public's memory is short. That's actually taught in PR 101-type classes. It was something I learned earlier this year. Companies really bet on knowing that people forget nearly instantly.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:15
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I like going into the lavatories of US Air's A320s and seeing the cactuses and other desert theme stuff from America West they never removed.
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Jun 21, 2014 03:43
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0toShifty posted:I like going into the lavatories of US Air's A320s and seeing the cactuses and other desert theme stuff from America West they never removed. That's probably one of the better ways a sentence beginning "I like going into the lavatories of US Air's A320s" could have ended.
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Jun 21, 2014 05:09
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What the hell kind of runway uses bricks?      
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Jun 21, 2014 06:02
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Someone made a big booboo I thought Emirates when I saw the top picture but I can't identify the livery.
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Jun 21, 2014 06:23
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Sudo Echo posted:What the hell kind of runway uses bricks? Trust me it's held up way better than the last two runways built of straw and wood
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Jun 21, 2014 06:27
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According to this Airliners.net thread, it's pretty common for aprons, works pretty well, just like patio pavers. But when you don't maintain it and let the sand that holds the bricks together get washed out, and then do a full-power runup in a place you're only supposed to be taxiing, that happens. It's obviously not a runway, considering the building right there in front of the jet. Edit: also, it was in Pakistan, where "cheap" "good enough" and "not bothering to maintain it" aren't exactly rare. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 06:31
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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That's not long enough to be a runway, I think he got lost looking for the taxiway.
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Jun 21, 2014 06:32
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Barnsy posted:Someone made a big booboo Shaheen Air apparently: http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=167085
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Jun 21, 2014 06:34
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MrChips posted:You think that's a laugh? Try refueling a Mitsubishi MU-2 (which I will effortpost about someday). All the fuel is carried in the wings and a pair of big-rear end tip tanks, which will cause the aircraft to fall over if you don't refuel them in the proper order...at very least, you're gonna get the ladder wedged under the wing. Belated, but here I go. That plane was a death trap. My folks were both private pilots 20 years ago. They got one for the added speed bonus of it being a turboprop. Longstory short: It loved to dutch roll. It was loud as gently caress. It was uncomfortable to fly in. The engines were hyper finicky. My old man's co-pilot blew the engine by pulling back on the throttle too fast during landing- so he got to taxi it off the runway with an engine fire.
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Jun 21, 2014 10:35
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On a flight back to Indiana from DC, I missed flying on small planes (CRJ-200). Really want to score a dash 8 or other props flight some time but I'm not sure of any short hops where I want to go that still use them. Also US Airways blows.
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Jun 21, 2014 15:28
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Job Truniht posted:Belated, but here I go. I don't really know anything about turbines. Why would that happen? Too much fuel buildup or something?
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Jun 21, 2014 16:30
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Advent Horizon posted:Rebranding isn't going to fix that, at least if you keep the name. Do people really think of a font and a logo when the name American comes up, or do they think about that one time they hosed a flight attendant on an empty flight? Customer Experience matters much more than a logo. Try selling your house with the scuzz marks on the wall from where your cat has rubbed its face for the past 10 years, the furniture covered in mystery stains, and the overgrown yard and see how successful you'd be. Now try selling the same house with a fresh coat of paint on everything, some fresh modern furniture, and a mown lawn. That's what we're talking about here. Change the font might have looked cool and modern back in 1996 when you commissioned it, but now it's old and tired, just like your planes, your interiors and your flight attendants. Fresh new font, new paint, and new interior, and you just might be able to keep the interest of your jaded business clients tired of your old lovely stuff. And if your stuff is brand spanking new looking, suddenly your competition looks old and frumpy. You see a new livery AA plane parked at a stand, and a dirty old United with Continental tail taxis past, it doesn't matter if the plane is the same age, you're going to think AA is the better option.
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Jun 21, 2014 16:39
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Well sure, but I think people judge far more on interior condition. I wouldn't count that under rebranding, but I could see how you might factor that in. Still, I care if the seats are in good condition, not what colour they are - or, indeed, if a steward's jacket changes colour, or if the outside of the plane looks a little newer. I'm not saying looks can't matter, but they only matter if it makes something wrong, not if it makes something less good. Bathrooms having cacti on the walls, for example, would put me off an airline because it looks like they don't give a poo poo what the passenger sees. No effort at professionalism. If the steward's uniform is frumpy, or the seats are brown and orange tartan and look like they're from 1974 (this does presuppose the seats are in good condition, like not ripped, stained or faded), it's not something I'd worry about.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:08
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Linedance posted:Try selling your house with the scuzz marks on the wall from where your cat has rubbed its face for the past 10 years, the furniture covered in mystery stains, and the overgrown yard and see how successful you'd be. Now try selling the same house with a fresh coat of paint on everything, some fresh modern furniture, and a mown lawn. That's what we're talking about here. Change the font might have looked cool and modern back in 1996 when you commissioned it, but now it's old and tired, just like your planes, your interiors and your flight attendants. Fresh new font, new paint, and new interior, and you just might be able to keep the interest of your jaded business clients tired of your old lovely stuff. And if your stuff is brand spanking new looking, suddenly your competition looks old and frumpy. You see a new livery AA plane parked at a stand, and a dirty old United with Continental tail taxis past, it doesn't matter if the plane is the same age, you're going to think AA is the better option. Yes, but in this case you're not selling the house, you're trying to rent it out to people who want to pay the absolute least money possible and you're insisting your place can sleep thirty people inside if they just lie on the floor. And you're locking all the doors to the kitchen, too. Other stuff, like having your checking areas adequately manned, not having bagging fees, or just having good reliability at leaving on time, matter so much more than graphic arts. I'll go with new paint (where visible) and new interior helping, but that's because those are wear items, and new interiors can bring new entertainment tech along with freshly sprung and upholstered seats, not because anyone gives two toots about the contemporariness of the fabric patterns. New fonts and stripe patterns are often unnoticed. The graphic arts aspects of branding and their 'freshness' often fall into a trap where they're of tremendous concern to people who are paid specifically to be concerned about them, and totally irrelevant to everyone else, resulting in a ton of money being spent for no real gain.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:13
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CharlesM posted:I don't really know anything about turbines. Why would that happen? Too much fuel buildup or something? Compressor surge can occur if the turbine RPM decreases faster than the compressor RPM (and conversely, if the turbine RPM increases faster than the compressor RPM), which creates a pressure imbalance in the sections, and thus a fuel-air mixture is pushed back into the compressor. Dunno if that's what happened here, but it was a huge problem with early turbines and turboprops that required very delicate throttle controls. (It can also occur in 3-spool designs because the intermediate stage can create an RPM imbalance as well that results in a pressure imbalance)
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Jun 21, 2014 17:14
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CharlesM posted:I don't really know anything about turbines. Why would that happen? Too much fuel buildup or something? Even though I will concede that the Garrett TPE331 is a finicky engine to operate, that shouldn't happen unless you ignore operating procedures. A failure of one of the fuel governors *could* cause that, but my guess here is going into full reverse too early. Going into reverse pitch commands an increase of fuel to the engine to maintain engine RPM; doing this at a speed above the approved limit (90 knots + 1 knot for every degree above 90F) can cause the engine RPM to drop too low, which in turn reduces airflow through the engine, creating a scenario with the potential to overtemp the hot section and cause a monumental surge.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:16
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Job Truniht posted:Belated, but here I go. It also has huge full span double slotted flaps, using spoilers for roll control. It seemed like a great idea to have the wing area of a King Air for flying slow but could also clean up and cruise at 300kts. However an obscene number of MU-2's crashed because pilots on go-around would bring the flaps and lose 20%+ of the wings area.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:23
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Some years ago, the FAA mandated type ratings for MU2 crew, which is a sort of model specific training/certification requirement, due to the unique operating nature of the aircraft. Generally type ratings are only required for aircraft above a certain weight, but some special cases like the MU2 exist. I don't know for sure, but I thought I'd read that the MU2's safety record improved dramatically following the type rating requirement.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:30
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The Ferret King posted:Some years ago, the FAA mandated type ratings for MU2 crew, which is a sort of model specific training/certification requirement, due to the unique operating nature of the aircraft. Generally type ratings are only required for aircraft above a certain weight, but some special cases like the MU2 exist. It did. The majority of the fleet has been re-engined with more modern TPE331-10s, as well, which helps with the engine-management workload.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:36
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Yeah it gets its own entry in the federal regulations: Special Federal Aviation Regulation No. 108—Mitsubishi MU-2B Series Special Training, Experience, and Operating Requirements It's the only such aircraft I see in the table of contents that gets that kind of attention.
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Jun 21, 2014 18:40
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The Ferret King posted:I don't know for sure, but I thought I'd read that the MU2's safety record improved dramatically following the type rating requirement. It absolutely did. Since the SFAR regarding the MU-2 was issued in 2008, the MU-2 fleet has enjoyed the best safety record in its class, where it was previously the worst. E: Despite this, the aircraft still feels the effect of its previously bad record; MU-2s can be had for next to nothing, which was part of the problem pre-2008. You could buy a good example of a MU-2 for less than the cost of a new Piper Malibu, so you had a number of relatively inexperienced private pilots with more money than brains upgrading to the MU-2 and promptly crashing them because they didn't know how to fly them safely. MrChips fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Jun 21, 2014 |
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Jun 21, 2014 18:46
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The MU-2 was a great airplane to fly, although it sucked trimming and refueling it. Also coming up on 2 months since I finished my 787 sims and I still haven't flown yet 
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Jun 21, 2014 21:25
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Snowdens Secret posted:Yes, but in this case you're not selling the house, you're trying to rent it out to people who want to pay the absolute least money possible and you're insisting your place can sleep thirty people inside if they just lie on the floor. And you're locking all the doors to the kitchen, too. Am I the only one who would rather companies keep their logos for 100+ years? It shows you've been around and are probably going to stay that way. Either do minor changes regularly or pick something and keep it. A black suit and medium width tie never go out of style, but if you want to keep up with the latest it's a new tie nearly constantly and a jacket on a regular basis. Both options are valid but if you choose the latter you have to keep up on it. Nobody wants to see a skinny tie with a plaid jacket right now. As for the aircraft interiors, that's not a rebranding issue so much as maintenance. The entire interior has to come out every few years anyway; you really don't save money by keeping the tired old poo poo without repairing it. And as said, above all right now is what's included with the price. I choose Alaska because I like having assigned seats and 2 or 3 checked bags included with my fare. Not because they have Recaro seats.
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Jun 21, 2014 21:44
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SCOTLAND posted:The MU-2 was a great airplane to fly, although it sucked trimming and refueling it. Yup. Is the lack of flying down to a lack of airplanes? I've heard your second and third aircraft were delayed, are there more delays coming?
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Jun 21, 2014 22:21
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Advent Horizon posted:Am I the only one who would rather companies keep their logos for 100+ years? Imagine all of the VW Beetles running around with the original corporate logo:  And back in the day, the old Air France logo indicated that... you get Wi-Fi in brony class?  Honestly these days, it doesn't matter what paint is on the plane... The only logo that matters is the icon next to the cheapest airfare on a website, or which airline your company requires you to fly. And even if you could make a decision based on the latest paint scheme, it doesn't matter when at the last minute you hit the gate and your sparkly new A320 has been replaced by an old MD-88 with outdated livery.
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Jun 21, 2014 22:25
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benito posted:Imagine all of the VW Beetles running around with the original corporate logo: Fun fact: A320s have the shortest expected service life of any common narrow body mainline aircraft, with the average airframe age at time of scrapping (after the first ten airframes get scrapped,) at only just under twenty years. 737 Classics are around twenty-three years, Mad Dogs slightly older, 757s at twenty-five, while DC-8s and DC-9s will be used to ferry us around to the various space elevators of Earth in the twenty-fourth century.
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Jun 21, 2014 22:55
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MrYenko posted:Fun fact: A320s have the shortest expected service life of any common narrow body mainline aircraft, with the average airframe age at time of scrapping (after the first ten airframes get scrapped,) at only just under twenty years. 737 Classics are around twenty-three years, Mad Dogs slightly older, 757s at twenty-five, while DC-8s and DC-9s will be used to ferry us around to the various space elevators of Earth in the twenty-fourth century. Space DC-8s you say?  go on.... 
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Jun 21, 2014 23:13
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MrChips posted:Yup. The first three were and are going to be each delayed about a month and a half due to various reasons, and from what I understand we will only have 6 instead of 7 by the end of the year. Guys have been saying it's fun to do the touch and go's in it though.
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Jun 22, 2014 00:48
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benito posted:And back in the day, the old Air France logo indicated that... you get Wi-Fi in brony class? The seahorse logo evokes the days of long intercontinental shipborne journeys and is pretty cool. I haven't flown Air France since last millennium but it used to kick all sorts of rear end.
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Jun 22, 2014 01:42
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Snowdens Secret posted:The seahorse logo evokes the days of long intercontinental shipborne journeys and is pretty cool. I haven't flown Air France since last millennium but it used to kick all sorts of rear end. I had two connections to make with them on a trip to Europe this summer. They were late and caused me to miss both of them.  edit: also they lost my suitcase both times as a result StandardVC10 fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 01:49
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Powercube I know what you did yesterday, post the fuckin' photo we all want to see 
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Jun 22, 2014 02:12
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What naughty thing did Powercube do to Fifi?
SeaborneClink fucked around with this message at 02:23 on Jun 22, 2014 |
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Jun 22, 2014 02:18
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StandardVC10 posted:I had two connections to make with them on a trip to Europe this summer. They were late and caused me to miss both of them. Air France lost my dad's bags on a direct flight CDG-ATL. I mean, it doesn't get any simpler than that!
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Jun 22, 2014 03:28
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Linedance posted:Change the font might have looked cool and modern back in 1996 when you commissioned it, but now it's old and tired… The AA livery wasn't from 1996, it was from 1967, and Helvetica, which is timeless 
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Jun 22, 2014 05:12
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Snowdens Secret posted:The seahorse logo evokes the days of long intercontinental shipborne journeys and is pretty cool. I haven't flown Air France since last millennium but it used to kick all sorts of rear end. They're quite good in regards to pilot and safety standards, but holy crap have their customer service levels dropped. I won't fly on them any more, and I'm French.
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Jun 22, 2014 05:23
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The people on AF447 might disagree, if they could.
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Jun 22, 2014 11:27
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Barnsy posted:They're quite good in regards to pilot and safety standards, People love to poo poo on Ryanair, but the fact of the matter is they are a safer airline than Air France.
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Jun 22, 2014 11:39
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Snowdens Secret posted:The seahorse logo evokes the days of long intercontinental shipborne journeys and is pretty cool. I haven't flown Air France since last millennium but it used to kick all sorts of rear end. Recently took a brand new AF A380 from DeGaulle to Dulles. Because 'we are having issues with our computers', they only had two attendants checking tickets at boarding and 'we can't use the upper deck boarding ramp.' Took two and a half hours to get everyone on board and depart the gate   They're as bad as any of the US carriers at this point, about the only thing that distinguishes them at this point is wine with the inflight meals.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:36
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I thought all US carriers had free beer/wine in Y on transoceanic flights.
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Jun 22, 2014 14:44
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