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tithin
Nov 14, 2003


[Grandmaster Tactician]



http://m.canberratimes.com.au/national/cba-ignored-evidence-of-100m-fraud-20140621-zsh6i.html posted:



The Commonwealth Bank repeatedly ignored evidence of an alleged $100 million fraud that implicated its own staff, and instead, seized the homes of victims in a bid to recoup its losses.

Fairfax Media can reveal the CBA allowed the alleged architects of the scam, Bill Jordanou and Robert Zaia, to continue to broker tens of millions of dollars in loans after failing to heed the findings of an investigation by the bank’s internal fraud division almost seven years ago.

The failure to act on the information raises serious questions about the CBA’s culpability in the losses and its decision to continue to seize the homes of Victorian families that police have identified as victims.

Mr Jordanou, Mr Zaia and three accomplices were charged last month with hundreds of counts of fraud and financial deception resulting from a decade-long alleged scam run from suburban accountancy firm Zaia Arthur & Associates.

Victoria Police’s fraud squad launched an investigation into the firm in late 2011 after the CBA reported loan applications lodged on behalf of clients that were supported by falsified documents.

The scheme allegedly involved taking out loans for property developments that were never started. While some of the money went for repayments to keep the loans out of default, most was allegedly siphoned off to fund a lavish lifestyle for the perpetrators.

But documents obtained by Fairfax Media show CBA’s internal fraud unit had investigated an incident as early as 2007 relating to Zaia Arthur & Associates’ alleged involvement in forging client cheques – more than four years before the bank approached police about the company.

In 2007, plasterer Jim Barker and wife Debbie Mann were facing foreclosure on their Mildura property over a $1.5 million loan organised by Mr Jordanou and Mr Zaia. The couple reported to the CBA that income documents used to get the loan had apparently been doctored with the complicity of a senior CBA loan manager. They also queried two unauthorised withdrawals totalling $26,000 from Ms Mann’s account.

CBA’s fraud unit investigated the cheques, which had been requested in writing and faxed from the offices of Zaia Arthur & Associates with a signature Ms Mann claimed was forged. The fax included a demand to issue one $21,000 cheque made payable to the company.

‘‘Mann alleges that her signature was forged on a letter received by the bank on 23 November 2005 authorising two cheques to be issued,’’ the CBA acknowledged in a compensation offer sent to Ms Mann in late 2007.

‘‘In order to resolve any dispute between the bank and Mann, the bank agrees to settle such dispute with Mann fully and finally in order to avoid litigation.’’

The CBA refunded the $26,000 but the couple ultimately had to sell their property after the bank refused to accept that the loan documents were also forgeries.

Despite the findings of the CBA investigation and the compensation payment, the bank allowed Zaia Arthur & Associates to broker at least a dozen other loans of more than $40 million during the next four years.

The loans were approved through the CBA’s Box Hill branch, regardless of whether the properties were in Toorak, Brunswick, South Yarra, Mildura or New South Wales. Victims have alleged the company had an ‘‘inside man’’ at the branch, who received a share of the profits, luxury goods and holidays as payment.

About a dozen other banks and finance groups would also be allegedly stung, taking the total fraud to more than $100 million. Hundreds of allegedly forged documents were eventually uncovered by the fraud squad at the offices of Zaia Arthur & Associates during a raid in 2012.

But while the original fraud allegations are now seven years old – and the CBA reported its concerns to the fraud squad nearly three years ago – the bank has persisted in foreclosing on the homes of victims.

CBA is seeking seizure orders in the Supreme Court for at least four properties despite the owners being identified as victims by police in criminal cases to be prosecuted in the Magistrates Court later this year.

But Fairfax Media can also reveal that fear of public exposure has seen the bank back off one foreclosure bid and try to shift blame onto Zaia Arthur & Associates as a defence in another pending lawsuit.

An attempt to repossess the home of a 91-year-old woman caught up in the rort was abandoned last year when her family threatened to sue the CBA for damages. ‘‘We were told that the bank didn’t need this kind of exposure and we could get the title back to her house if we signed a non-disclosure agreement,’’ a victim said.

In a 2013 lawsuit brought by another victim, the CBA has recently amended its defence to claim that the bank’s financial liability should be limited due to the actions of Zaia Arthur & Associates.

The inconsistency in the CBA’s responses to victims – and the alleged involvement of a bank insider that was crucial to making the scheme work – has left victims shocked and angry.

‘‘Altogether, my family probably has 120 years as customers of the CBA and that’s why we felt so comfortable with them,’’ a victim said.

‘‘We just couldn’t believe that they would try to take our mother’s house when one of their own staff was involved and they’ve known for years that this has all been a scam.’’

A CBA spokeswoman refused to comment on the foreclosure cases.

“In regard to your questions relating to events in 2007, you would appreciate that there are currently fraud allegations regarding Zaia Arthur & Associates before the court and as such it is not appropriate for us to comment,” she said."


:toot:

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Horseshoe theory
Mar 7, 2005


All banks are scum, news at 11.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Sir Shion posted:

Banks are hosed

The actions of the financial sector are always the best evidence for "Should we deregulate finance?"

"No, seriously, we don't need all this red tape, we're a mature and responsible industry!"
*covers up rampant illegality and corruption for profit*
"errrr"

CATTASTIC
Mar 31, 2010

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Has deregulation ever not resulted in this sort of poo poo?
I'm trying to think of an example of an industry that hasn't just used it to gently caress people over. Privatisation too.

Pidgin Englishman
Apr 30, 2007

If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Palmersaurus posted:

Has deregulation ever not resulted in this sort of poo poo?
I'm trying to think of an example of an industry that hasn't just used it to gently caress people over. Privatisation too.

At times I pull my Fountainhead bed-sheets up tight and wonder if maybe regulation does have a purpose (other than pure evil).

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

Palmersaurus posted:

Has deregulation ever not resulted in this sort of poo poo?
I'm trying to think of an example of an industry that hasn't just used it to gently caress people over. Privatisation too.

Why do you think they do it?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop
Low hanging fruit but the Arestralian has a knack for presenting data in the worst possible ways:



Supposed to show a decline in ATAR standards. I guess it does if you look really carefully at it while trying to make it show that.

Also deregulation and privatisation. I have an open challenge for anyone to provide data of any example of a privatisation that has resulted in lower costs and/or prices. To date there has been a single privatised prison in WA given as a positive example (I'm keeping a very close eye on that one). Easy to talk up benefits, hard to actually find them. For instance the first round of economic rationalisation got rid of tea ladies in the 1980's. You'd think that there would be a huge amount of data in showing what a clever move that was by now.

http://thisisseriouscom.wordpress.com/2014/05/13/the-tea-lady-an-case-study-of-economic-rationalisation/

In fact quite the opposite turns out to be the case.

Cartoon fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Jun 23, 2014

i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
let's see what Josh Frydenberg thinks about deregulation of fincance (he is a merchant banker and member for Kooyong)

quote:

It is a pleasure to be here at the Sydney Institute.

It is a place which for over 20 years has seen ideas and debates flourish and our democracy enhanced.

The two people responsible for making this institution what it is today are Anne and Gerard Henderson.

Both are distinguished authors, Anne for her biographies of Joseph and Enid Lyons and Gerard for his seminal book ‘Menzies Child’. Both are brave commentators often taking on trenchant critics from the political left. Both are people I consider good friends.

Indeed, one of my fondest memories with Gerard and Anne was a few years ago after Gerard had delivered the Menzies Lecture where he recounted among other things his days growing up in the Kooyong electorate. We went back to The Hotel Windsor and to the very room where Menzies stayed as prime minister. We discussed the halcyon days of the Menzies era and lessons it provided for today. I quickly learnt what great repositories of political history and wisdom Anne and Gerard were and long may they continue to guide and inspire.

Tonight, I will talk about the Government’s deregulation agenda – our strategies and our priorities.

It comes at a time when the Coalition is moving quickly on a number of economic fronts.

The Commission of Audit, chaired by Tony Shepherd, has just been announced, plans are under way to privatise Medibank, for a new White Paper on Tax, a Productivity Commission inquiry into the Fair Work Act, a Productivity Commission review into construction costs, and the terms of reference are currently being finalised for a ‘root and branch’ review of competition laws.

But no micro-economic reform issue is more important or urgent than that of deregulation.

I want to start with a quotation:

‘The truth is business regulation is now right out of control. The quantity and complexity of business regulation today is eating away at the entrepreneurial spirit of Australian business.’

Who said this? Kevin Rudd, in an address to the National Press Club in April 2007.

Unfortunately however, prime ministers Rudd and Gillard did not solve these problems, in fact they exacerbated them.

During Labor’s nearly six years in office, over 21,000 additional regulations were introduced, productivity declined and Australia fell in the global competitiveness rankings.

In the five years from mid-2007, multi-factor productivity declined across the country by three per cent.

Last year the respected The Economist Intelligence Unit ranked 51 countries for productivity growth, with Australia coming in second last, ahead of Botswana.

Out of 148 countries surveyed by the World Economic Forum, Australia ranks a sad 128th ‘for burden of government regulation’, down from 96th the year before.

Illustratively, the Australian Chamber of Commerce and Industry surveyed its members and found that 73 per cent of businesses felt the compliance burden had increased in the past two years.

This should all come as no surprise.

The Government has a regulatory impact assessment process to evaluate the burden of new regulation.

But remarkably since 2008-09 there have been more than 80 examples of non-compliance or exemptions from the regulatory impact assessment process.

The most significant legislative changes over recent years, the Carbon Tax, the Mining Tax, the NBN and changes to the Fair Work Act all escaped detailed scrutiny following exemptions granted by Rudd and Gillard.

In fact, the independent Borthwick-Milliner review, commissioned by Labor and which reported last year, found ‘a widespread lack of acceptance of and commitment by ministers and agencies’ to the regulatory impact assessment process.

This scandalous culture of piling on new regulations without assessing the consequences for productivity, and the costs involved, must now come to an end.

We need a new approach.

Questions must be asked first before new regulations are passed.

What is their purpose? What is their cost? What is their impact on productivity? What is their impact on new entrants? And what is their effectiveness in managing risk?

Only then, when it is absolutely necessary and with no sensible alternatives available, should we proceed to regulate.

We need a new conception of acceptable risk and we need to much better understand the cumulative impact of regulation on business decision making.

Business is not sentimental and capital is mobile.

An adverse regulatory regime can make all the difference to the productivity of an enterprise and to a decision when, or whether, to proceed with any major investment.

For every new regulation it is easy to find a stakeholder or lobby group who will argue in favour.

Protecting the consumer, the environment and the worker is often their only battle cry.

These are legitimate interests but there are other legitimate interests that need also to be taken into account.

It is at this point that the distinction between the approach of the Liberal Party and that of Labor becomes most evident.

Liberals understand the best outcomes for society and the economy are not always within the unique provenance of government.

Interestingly, politicians who support the new regulatory action are, in the words of former Productivity Commission chairman Gary Banks, ‘often rewarded with public acclaim, as tangible evidence that the government is ‘doing something’’.

These ‘uneven political pressures’ said Banks, are ‘the antithesis of good regulatory process.’

It is a point Tony Blair also made when he was prime minister of Britain. He said in 2005:

‘We are in danger of having a wholly disproportionate attitude to the risks we should expect to run as a normal part of life. This is putting pressure on policy making, not just in Government but in regulatory bodies… to act to eliminate risk in a way that is out of all proportion to the potential damage. The result is a plethora of rules, guidelines, responses to ‘scandals’ of one nature or another that ends up having utterly perverse consequences.’

Put simply the incentives are all wrong. The impact is to deter investment and innovation and stifle productivity.

This is why the Abbott Government is determined to change course.

We need reform at five different levels.

First, we must tackle the volume of regulation itself, clearly already too high.

Secondly, we must work to eliminate the extensive duplication and regulatory overlap that exists between different layers of government, particularly federal and state.

Thirdly, we must improve the quality of consultation between government and those to be affected by any new regulations. Using particularly strong language, the Productivity Commission has said ‘consultation processes remain a weak point when developing regulations. In many areas consultation lacks transparency, continuity and time frames are too short.’

This clearly has to change.

The mantra of regulatory reformers should be, according to Gary Banks, ‘consult, consult, consult’ at ‘all stages of the regulatory cycle’.

This doesn’t mean that policy makers engage in so called ‘negotiations’ with stakeholders but rather, undertake genuine consultation. Banks makes the point that ‘realpolitik necessitates a degree of political negotiation to get policies enacted and implemented’ but without real consultation, ‘negotiation has no anchor and is liable to produce undesirable policy outcomes’.

Fourthly, we must ensure there are rigorous and mandatory post implementation reviews to determine how effective new regulations have been. If it is found that the regulations no longer effectively meet their purpose, then their repeal must be an option. Greater use of sunset clauses may also be a useful tool towards this end.

Fifth, we need to tackle the regulators to ensure they are at all times transparent, accountable and efficient in administering regulations. Regulators are at the front line of this debate and must be brought along as part of any new sweeping cultural change.

If we can achieve reform in all these five areas we will save billions of what would otherwise be wasted dollars.

The Productivity Commission has estimated that regulatory compliance costs could be as high as four per cent of GDP and by removing inefficient regulation savings could be up to 1.6 percent of GDP. In terms of Australia’s current GDP, of around $1.5 trillion, the benefit to the economy from reducing regulation could be anywhere between $12 billion and $24 billion a year.

So now we know why we need regulatory reform, the question becomes what will the reforms look like?

Based on the excellent work done in Opposition by the Coalition’s Deregulation Taskforce chaired by Senator Arthur Sinodinos with deputies Kelly O’Dwyer MP and Senator David Bushby, the Coalition took to the election a detailed policy blueprint which will enable us to cut $1 billion a year in red and green tape.

The reforms involve a series of new measures which will hold both ministers and the bureaucracy to greater account.

Cabinet submissions proposing legislative changes with a significant regulatory impact will no longer be exempted from the regulatory impact assessment process.

Ministers have been tasked to establish designated units within their own departments to advise on deregulation priorities while each minister will appoint an advisory committee, with business representation, to provide advice on where regulation can be cut.

Senior members of the public service will have their remuneration directly linked to their performance in reducing red and green tape and two parliamentary sitting days will be set aside for repealing legislation each year. This initiative is not too dissimilar to that under way in other jurisdictions such as the United States, where the House of Representatives has regular repeal days under what is known as the Corrections Calendar.

All these changes will be overseen by the Prime Minister and his department which has taken over responsibility for the deregulation unit and the Office of Best Practice Regulation previously located in Finance.

Regulators too will be subject to the new approach.

The Government will be instructing the Productivity Commission to prepare a framework for auditing the performance of regulatory agencies.

As the Australian Institute of Company Directors has said: ‘regulators have tended to adopt an unduly risk-averse approach to the administration of regulation and are often overly bureaucratic in their interactions with business.’

If we are able to enhance the effectiveness and efficiencies of key bodies such as the ATO, ACCC, ASIC and APRA in the way they administer regulations, it will be a big step forward in generating the cultural change we so need.

Reinvigorating the COAG agenda will also be important.

So many of the deregulatory challenges require an inter-governmental approach.

There are plenty of areas ripe for reform – retail, planning, corporate governance, transport and environment to name but a few.

It just seems ridiculous that the length of time a person can legally drive a truck without a break differs from state to state and, as the Australian Institute of Company Directors has documented, that director’s liabilities are governed by not just the Commonwealth corporations law, but also more than 700 state and territory statutes.

Or that an environmental approval process, as documented by the Business Council of Australia, can drag out for years, cost the company involved more than $25 million, require more than 4,000 meetings and lead to a 12,000 page report – only then to see the approval comes back with 1,500 conditions attached – 1,200 from the State and 300 from the Commonwealth - including a further 8,000 sub-conditions. In an internationally competitive climate, how can we expect our big investors to participate in a process like that?

James Fazzino, CEO of Incitec Pivot, an ASX Top 50 company with 5,000 employees, talks openly about his company’s own experience called ‘the tale of two plants’.

Incitec Pivot was seeking regulatory approval to construct similar chemical plants in Louisiana USA and Newcastle Australia, each involving around $850 million in expenditure and each creating hundreds of new jobs.

In Louisiana, approval was granted in six months. In Australia, it has taken more than two years with the approval process still ongoing. Fazzino says the Australian plant is now put on hold with a ‘critical aspect’ of that decision being the lengthy and complex regulatory approval process.

Fortunately, with the new environment minister Greg Hunt now at the helm, we have quickly seen an improvement in federal-state cooperation on environmental approvals, with the Coalition pursuing its plans for a one-stop shop process.

In order to remove duplication, the Commonwealth will create a single approvals and documentation process under the Environmental Protection and Biodiversity Conservation Act via the state system, while at the same time ensuring the highest environmental standards apply.

Queensland has recently signed on to the one-stop shop plan. There are more state signatures on the way.

There are many other areas where the burden of regulation is holding us back.

Take our universities for example. Governed by 100 separate federal and state acts, it is estimated our universities spend $280 million a year just on compliance and reporting requirements, with each university operating a compliance department typically with 15-20 dedicated staff.

Universities Australia have detailed how a typical university will be ‘required to report over 50 different data sets to the Department of Industry, Innovation, Climate Change, Science, Research and Tertiary Education (DIICCSRTE) annually, comprising 200 reporting instances per year, and over 50 data sets to other Government departments.’

Reducing this burden is a real priority for the Government with education minister Christopher Pyne sending a strong message last week by issuing a ministerial direction to the Tertiary Education Quality and Standards Agency (TEQSA) to start cutting red tape and to report back to him with progress and the level of expected savings.

The health, financial services and small business portfolios are others areas where the Government wants to move quickly.

We took to the election a commitment to streamline medical research grant processes having heard from the sector about the inordinate amount of time wasted by our top researchers applying for grants.

We will extend National Health and Medical Research Council grants from three to five years to provide greater funding certainty and adopt an ‘early triage’ of applications that are unlikely to be approved which will hasten the grants process and reduce the administrative burden.

According to one academic survey, Australian scientists spent more than 500 years’ worth of research time preparing and applying for grant schemes in 2012. This is time that could have otherwise been spent in the laboratory looking for cures. There must be a better way.

In addition to this interesting issue medical research, I acknowledge there are many other areas where the not-for-profit sector has a legitimate interest in deregulation and it is a topic to which I will return at a later date.

In terms of the financial services sector, there is much disquiet about Labor’s Future of Financial Advice (FOFA) legislation. The industry has estimated that the additional red tape will cost $700 million to implement and lead to a $375 million annual compliance cost.

Conscious of this additional regulatory burden the Assistant Treasurer, Senator Sinodinos, has already committed to removing one of Labor’s new measures, the opt-in requirements, and is consulting with key stakeholders about the implications of the rest.

We recognise small business is the engine room of our economy.

We will offer small business relief from the regulatory burden by moving responsibility for administering the paid parental leave scheme from small business to the Family Assistance Office.

We will also give employers the option to remit compulsory superannuation payments directly to the ATO which will enable them the opportunity to avoid being bogged down in paperwork, sending multiple cheques to multiple superannuation funds.

I could go on for hours. There are just so many other areas where we need to cut red tape, like the government procurement process, where there are around 80 different procurement panels with service providers facing costs that have been estimated to be in excess of $40,000 per panel.

In just over the last year, the then Labor Government passed new regulations through the Parliament without sufficient consultation affecting a range of areas including: 457 visas, the water trigger, coastal shipping, the Fair Work Act and the purchase of materials on major projects under the Jobs Act.

James Fazzino, of Incitec Pivot, has said of the new coastal shipping regulations, it is now cheaper to ship 40,000 tonnes of fertiliser from Townsville to India than from Townsville to Melbourne. In Fazzino’s words this regulatory change is just another ‘deal done with the MUA’ in which ‘the benefit you get being a large manufacturer in Australia in given up because of some crazy regulations over coastal shipping’.

Once again Labor was doing the bidding of the unions with a tin ear to business.

Our political opponents may think in the short term these regulatory changes protect union membership, but in the end it is the workers themselves who really lose out.

It is after all business, not government, that creates real wealth and long term jobs.

In conclusion, if we do not act now to tackle this avalanche of red and green tape we will be unnecessarily raising the risk on Australia’s $400 billion investment pipeline and, in the process, endangering tens of thousands of potential new jobs.

We must never forget in a competitive world, capital is mobile and in the Asian Century, where the opportunities are so large, we not only need to seize every advantage but we need to eliminate every disadvantage.

This is why the deregulation agenda is just so urgent and important.

We must act now.

The choice is ours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ7xBuljD-M&t=11s

V_V

DEREGULATE IT ALL STOMP ON THE POORS MONEY MONEY MONEY

i got banned fucked around with this message at 01:37 on Jun 23, 2014

Zenithe
Feb 25, 2013

Ask not to whom the Anidavatar belongs; it belongs to thee.
It's not like banks are directly responsible for the biggest economic failure since the great depression or anything.

SBJ
Apr 10, 2009

Apple of My Eye

Laughter in the Sky

Zenithe posted:

It's not like banks are directly responsible for the biggest economic failure since the great depression or anything.

Robbing a bank is one of the few victimless crimes available.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

an utterly incompetent shitbag posted:

Based on the excellent work done in Opposition by the Coalition’s Deregulation Taskforce chaired by Senator Arthur Sinodinos with deputies Kelly O’Dwyer MP and Senator David Bushby, the Coalition took to the election a detailed policy blueprint which will enable us to cut $1 billion a year in red and green tape.

Honest Arthur

Fair Dinkum Kelly

&

'Grown up' David

It turds all the way down.

Seagull
Oct 9, 2012

give me a chip



I put in as much, if not more, effort as they did.

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Captain Pissweak posted:

I put in as much, if not more, effort as they did.
Needed a little bit of cleaning up.

i got banned
Sep 24, 2010

lol abbottwon
http://www.theage.com.au/world/north-korea-wants-to-punish-julie-bishop-over-kim-jongun-comments-20140623-zsidt.html

quote:

Seoul: North Korea has condemned Australian Foreign Affairs Minister Julie Bishop as a US "stooge" after she criticised its leader Kim Jong-un in an interview.

Pyongyang's foreign ministry on Sunday described Ms Bishop as "no more than a stooge carrying out the US hostile policy" toward it.

North Korea "will never pardon but resolutely punish anyone who dares slander the dignity of its supreme leadership", a ministry spokesman told Pyongyang's official news agency without elaborating.
North Korean leader Kim Jong-un gives field guidance at the May Day Stadium in Pyongyang in a photo released last week. Julie Bishop said Mr Kim can "hardly claim legitimacy as a leader".

North Korean leader Kim Jong-un gives field guidance at the May Day Stadium in Pyongyang in a photo released last week. Julie Bishop said Mr Kim can "hardly claim legitimacy as a leader". Photo: Reuters/KCNA

Last week Ms Bishop in an interview with US radio station Voice of America criticised Mr Kim and his pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Ms Bishop said she had "very serious concerns" with the policies that Kim Jong-un is adopting, she was quoted as saying on the VOA website.

Mr Kim could "hardly claim the legitimacy as a leader" when his regime defied international standards, she added.
Musudan-class missiles on display during the 100th birthday celebrations of the late North Korean leader Kim Il-sung in 2012. North Korea has no intention of giving up its nuclear weapons program.

Musudan-class missiles on display during the 100th birthday celebrations of the late North Korean leader Kim Il-sung in 2012. North Korea has no intention of giving up its nuclear weapons program. Photo: AFP/Ed Jones

Ms Bishop urged the young leader to abandon atomic weapons and respect the human rights of his people, according to the website.

North Korea angrily rejects any external criticism of its leader, part of the dynasty which has ruled since the country was created in 1948.

It has also indicated it has no intention of giving up its nuclear weapons program.

AAP


I hope North Korea send a sub over here, kidnap her and retrain her in glorious North Korea.





Also everyone has already forgiven Liberal for its "tough but fair" budget and will vote them into power again next election because austerity owns mate, just look at England and how sweet everything is over there at the moment.

Never mind the fact that austerity actually costs more for society (in terms of money because money is the only thing that matters) than having social safety nets in place for the most disadvantaged.

i got banned fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Jun 23, 2014

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008
Guys I don't know why you're so upset with CBA. It's not like anyone tried to go out and actively do harm to others. I am sure they are all just doing what they thought was the right thing. Stop trying to paint your enemies as comic book villains.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe
^^^ Comic book villains usually aren't just petty, thoughtless, selfish arseholes. They're usually trying to achieve something grander with their villainy instead of just "grab what I can get when the opportunity presents". I'd prefer comic book villains frankly, at least they'd be interesting.

Thanks for the blog post Cartoon, that was interesting.

It seems there's a lot of "common sense" that goes into business and management decisions that is incorrect. Things like "Austerity is Good" and "Fire staff = more productivity" that are taken as gospel but don't actually work. Work fired our level's admin person and I know that I'm using my time well as a highly paid engineer when I spend two hours at the printer rather than passing that on to her.

Drugs
Jul 16, 2010

I don't like people who take drugs. Customs agents, for example - Albert Einstein
Today:
http://www.smh.com.au/business/the-economy/australias-tax-rate-uncompetitive-says-richard-goyder-20140623-3amw7.html#ixzz35Q7vaj00

quote:

The boss of supermarket giant Wesfarmers has backed fresh calls for bigger cuts to made to the corporate tax rate, amid concerns that living standards and jobs could be at risk if Australia continues to fall behind Asia and the developed world in attracting big business.
...
Richard Goyder, chief executive of Wesfarmers, which owns Coles and chair of the B20 advisory group, said Australia risks putting its business and economic credentials at risk by not being more competitive on tax.
"If Australia's tax rate is uncompetitive and it's increasingly uncompetitive, then capital will flow to other markets and we won't get the investment in productive assets that will improve economic growth and the creation of jobs and wealth creation in Australia," he told the Nine Network's Financial Review Sunday program.
He added that while the majority of Wesfarmers' business was Australian based, the company would need to look offshore if it's to continue to grow.
"The jurisdictions off shore that will be attractive to us will be ones where there's economic growth and an attractive investment criteria around tax rates," said Mr Goyder.

February
http://www.smh.com.au/business/wesfarmers-lifts-dividend-as-profit-beats-forecasts-20140219-32zg8.html#ixzz35Q9mBcSf

quote:

Wesfarmers has once again drawn on its powerhouse retail banner groups such as Coles supermarkets, Bunnings, Officeworks and Kmart, to deliver an 11.2 per cent jump in half-year profit.
The $1.4 billion profit exceeded analyst expectations, with group revenue of $31.9 billion, up 4 per cent, also overshooting the hopes of investors.




Get hosed Dick

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008

hooman posted:

^^^ Comic book villains usually aren't just petty, thoughtless, selfish arseholes. They're usually trying to achieve something grander with their villainy instead of just "grab what I can get when the opportunity presents". I'd prefer comic book villains frankly, at least they'd be interesting.

Thanks for the blog post Cartoon, that was interesting.

It seems there's a lot of "common sense" that goes into business and management decisions that is incorrect. Things like "Austerity is Good" and "Fire staff = more productivity" that are taken as gospel but don't actually work. Work fired our level's admin person and I know that I'm using my time well as a highly paid engineer when I spend two hours at the printer rather than passing that on to her.

It's almost as if the entire system we have is set up to reward people for making decisions which give short term cosmetic benefits to budgets(expenses are down!) but don't penalise them for decisions which carry long term consequences(no one knows how to turn the eftpos machine on anymore!)

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

How strange, whenever I'm trying to choose a place to invest in I always look for the highest taxes and economic decline. Do Wesfarmers know something the rest of us don't?

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS
Completely unrelated but I think I stubled across the LNP's leadership strategy while studying for an exam:

quote:

Some behaviors that appear relevant for understanding charismatic leadership were overlooked in the theories and the related research. There seems to be a preference for socially acceptable behaviors rather than manipulative behaviors that increase follower perception of leader expertise and dependence on the leader. Some examples of these manipulative behaviors are the following: misinterpreting events or inciting incidents to create the appearance of a crisis; exaggerating the leader's positive achievements and taking unwarranted credit for achievements; creating the appearance of miracles; using staged events with music and symbols to arouse emotions and build enthusiasm; covering up mistakes and failures; blaming others for the leader's mistakes; limiting member access to information about operations and performance; limiting the scope of subordinate work roles; limiting communication of criticism or dissent; indoctrinating new members; using deference rituals and status symbols; and creating barriers to isolate members from contacts with outsiders.
Taken from: Yukl, G. (1999). An evaluation of conceptual weaknesses in transformational and charismatic leadership theories. Leadership Quarterly, 10(2), 285.

hooman
Oct 11, 2007

This guy seems legit.
Fun Shoe

Gough Suppressant posted:

It's almost as if the entire system we have is set up to reward people for making decisions which give short term cosmetic benefits to budgets(expenses are down!) but don't penalise them for decisions which carry long term consequences(no one knows how to turn the eftpos machine on anymore!)

I'm struggling to convince my work that hiring "cheap" foreign riggers isn't a good move. Yes, I know they "cost less" but we're on a 300k a day vessel, all communication issues has to cost us is 30 minutes a shift (which is easily, easily does) and that's 12.5k every day. I am sure you aren't saving 12.5k a day hiring these guys rather than the expats we usually use.

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008

gay picnic defence posted:

Completely unrelated but I think I stubled across the LNP's leadership strategy while studying for an exam:

Taken from: Yukl, G. (1999). An evaluation of conceptual weaknesses in transformational and charismatic leadership theories. Leadership Quarterly, 10(2), 285.

I would call the leaders of the Liberal Party many things. Charismatic is not one of them.

I would blow Dane Cook
Dec 26, 2008

Cartoon posted:

Low hanging fruit but the Arestralian has a knack for presenting data in the worst possible ways:





Can anyone explain what's wrong with the graph? The number of ATAR 30 - 60 illiterate peasants has increased, the 71-80 group has stayed about the same, 81 - 90 has decreased and the ubermench 90-100 has stayed about the same so isn't that a net decrease in quality overall?

public school student sorry

open24hours
Jan 7, 2001

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/business/economists-facing-flak-over-ethics-20140622-3am9r.html

Can you regulate economists? Even if you could would it be a good idea?

Cartoon
Jun 20, 2008

poop

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Can anyone explain what's wrong with the graph? The number of ATAR 30 - 60 illiterate peasants has increased, the 71-80 group has stayed about the same, 81 - 90 has decreased and the ubermench 90-100 has stayed about the same so isn't that a net decrease in quality overall?

public school student sorry
Without knowing what the ATAR distribution for each year was overall the data has no meaning whatsoever. It might be noise. It might be any number of things. Even on face value, as you have summarised, it doesn't seem like a really big change AND you had to look hard to find it. It basically just shows that ATAR marks are a bell curve distribution. Yay!?

https://www.teachervision.com/skill-builder/graphs-and-charts/48945.html

Cartoon fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Jun 23, 2014

Webcormac McCarthy
Nov 26, 2007
Rumours of a $40m-50m ABC funding cut going around.
https://twitter.com/QuentinDempster/status/480834740224684034
:suicide:

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Sanguine posted:



Less howl, more dog whistle.

I'd wear this, except that you would have to explain it to almost everyone. You would get more confused, upset, dismissive and disgusted looks then you would wearing an actual wolf shirt. At least with the wolf shirt, you'd get people who look down on you with a sort of disgusted pity.


The proof of the pudding is in the eating :eng99:

If you take away the background image it looks like something that might be in a research paper. It's dense, but presents 8 curves with a single glance.

If it was interactive, you would hover over the year and grey out the rest, making it somewhat useful. But this is a graph in a newspaper, for the regular folk.
Make the pain stop.

quote:

Also deregulation and privatisation. I have an open challenge for anyone to provide data of any example of a privatisation that has resulted in lower costs and/or prices. To date there has been a single privatised prison in WA given as a positive example (I'm keeping a very close eye on that one).

From what I recall of the report on that prison, its has similar outcomes to government operated prisons. Looking at how prisons are being privatised, prisoners are not the target of cost savings measures, its the employees.
All I see are mentions of how its all the same, except prison staff are managed by the private sector and don't have access to public service benefits.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/op...9-1225795536019

quote:

THE controversial privatisation of Parklea Prison has slashed taxpayer-funded overtime for all prison guards by a massive $70,000 a day, ploughing $25 million a year back into the public purse.

The revelation follows claims of widespread overtime rorts among prison guards, with the overtime bill more than $40 million last year, double the budgeted amount.

Yet only days after the jail was taken over by private prison operator GEO, the Government is saving almost $500,000 a week because it has been able to place almost 200 officers from Parklea elsewhere across the system.

This has slashed the daily overtime bill from about $110,000 to about $40,000. If the pattern continues it will deliver an annual saving to taxpayers of about $25 million.

Yet despite this, the Greens have claimed the privatisation has caused a staff shortage across the state and compromised security.

Greens corrective services spokeswoman Sylvia Hale said that by seconding some casual staff from the government, GEO was taking staff from "essential security posts" at other jails and said it was a "debacle".

But in fact the reverse appears to be true. Ms Hale also failed to mention the number of casual guards temporarily employed by Parklea but The Daily Telegraph understands it is about 50, as compared to 195 full-time officers freed up for other jails. Corrective Services Minister John Robertson rubbished the Greens' claims.

Fire 200 full time guards, hire 50 casual guards; pocket the difference.
What could possibly go wrong?!?

Tokamak fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Jun 23, 2014

gay picnic defence
Oct 5, 2009


I'M CONCERNED ABOUT A NUMBER OF THINGS

Gough Suppressant posted:

I would call the leaders of the Liberal Party many things. Charismatic is not one of them.

Neither would I. But I suspect they are trying to cultivate that perception.

Pidgin Englishman
Apr 30, 2007

If you shoot
you better hit your mark

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Can anyone explain what's wrong with the graph? The number of ATAR 30 - 60 illiterate peasants has increased, the 71-80 group has stayed about the same, 81 - 90 has decreased and the ubermench 90-100 has stayed about the same so isn't that a net decrease in quality overall?

public school student sorry

This is true, though I'd hazard a guess that normal variations could explain away most of those perceived differences. Note though that the 51-70 students are still in the top half of the rankings and the upper end of that would give access to quite a few degrees, they're hardly illiterate.

The main thing I take from it is one glance at that mess of data makes it look as though 'something' peaked around 2009 and has since plummeted. Given that title you'd assume it was 'standards'.

Tokamak
Dec 22, 2004

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Can anyone explain what's wrong with the graph? The number of ATAR 30 - 60 illiterate peasants has increased, the 71-80 group has stayed about the same, 81 - 90 has decreased and the ubermench 90-100 has stayed about the same so isn't that a net decrease in quality overall?

public school student sorry

The 80-90 band has dropped ~10% over 7 years, and the 30-70 bands have increased by ~10%. Since a 85 course wouldn't change to a 35 overnight, you would expect most universities have had to lower their requirements in order to account for gradual change.

So it is essentially saying: all but the most prestigious universities (90-100) have had to lower their entrance requirements, but what does this actually mean? ATAR is only a measure of how popular a course it; it is based on supply and demand for enrolments. Maybe financial incentives have changed, there's more placements being offered, or maybe the perception of financial/job security has been on the decline; who knows?

The paper would like you to think the lower score means more dummies are becoming teachers, but that would only happen if the courses were also being dumbed down. If anything standards are being tightened, so while a dumb-dumb can enrol for a education degree, they are far less likely to graduate. The graph says nothing about the quality of students enrolling, or the quality of students graduating.

It would sound like a travesty if the ATAR requirements for Science degrees were dropped. But if you enrol with an ATAR score of 50, the odds are against you for graduating.

Its just right-winged dog whistling from every imaginable perspective.

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008
Based on the Australian's understanding of ATARs, the rise in petrol prices means we must be getting much higher quality petrol.

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."

Jumpingmanjim posted:

Can anyone explain what's wrong with the graph?
It's trying to cram too much information onto one chart, and then fucks it up further by adding in background poo poo.

It's also trying to display a trend over time but doesn't have time as the x-axis. It would be easier to follow if they had each year as the main entry on the bottom, so you could see the changes from year to year.

adamantium|wang
Sep 14, 2003

Missing you

You Am I
May 20, 2001

Me @ your poasting


That man can't help but be smug in ever selfie he does.

Gough Suppressant
Nov 14, 2008

This afternoon: race riots at Red Hill School as Grade 6 children exercise their right to be bigots.

Arcanen
Dec 19, 2005

Personally, I think high achieving students generally make bad teachers. High achieving students often go through school without needing much if any assistance from teachers and don't need to be taught to pay attention and to develop an interest and good learning skills. So they grew up never paying much attention to how teachers controlled the classroom (and often are placed in the classes with other high achievers such that they aren't in rooms that really need to be controlled anyway). Average to slightly above average students generally pay more attention to how teachers direct classrooms (since it's often directed at them) and also have strong ideas about how teachers were able to get them engaged with the material.

The biggest thing though, is that people who instantly grasp most material often have a great deal of trouble explaining that material to those who don't, ending up frustrated that students can't understand immediately or don't care to understand. This is my biggest problem when I'm teaching (though since I teach at a university I generally only deal with the former rather than the latter). I have a hard time getting a feel for how abstracted explanations should be, how much can be taught at a high level (with the belief that students will grasp it and the underlying principles immediately) and how much needs to be broken down into smaller components that are explained individually.

So I don't really find the movement in ATAR, even if it isn't just statistical noise (which I'm not so sure is that likely), that concerning. That said, perhaps my experiences and the issues I have with teaching are explored in teaching degrees. All I know is that PhD students are pretty poo poo teachers and generally don't have a knack for teaching despite excelling at learning. Fortunately lots and lots of experiences can sometimes make awful PhD student teachers into decent teachers by the time they become professors.

Flaky
Feb 14, 2011
Probation
Can't post for 3 years!

Cartoon posted:

Low hanging fruit but the Arestralian has a knack for presenting data in the worst possible ways:



Supposed to show a decline in ATAR standards. I guess it does if you look really carefully at it while trying to make it show that.


I don't see the problem, other than the background image. The graph shows that from 2005-2012 the percentage of teaching degree entrants by ATAR score is increasing across all bands 30-70, and decreasing for all bands 70-100. I agree that this doesn't say much about teacher quality or address reasons why this may be the case (probably the increasingly poo poo conditions of being a teacher making it less attractive as a career choice, but what do I know). Teaching is the one profession where it is entirely appropriate to abandon common sense, they should always be getting better all the time even if we slash their conditions because education is a hermetically sealed environment, teachers teach teachers, so education standards should always be going up because progress!!!

Another star piece of public policy from the generation that brought you the idea that 'house prices always go up!'.

Flaky fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Jun 23, 2014

Smegmatron
Apr 23, 2003

I hate to advocate emptyquoting or shitposting to anyone, but they've always worked for me.
The underlying assumption is that the best students make the best teachers.

Anyone who's seen what happens when a Best Student runs head first into a teaching degree will understand how hilariously and disastrously wrong that assumption is. Unless of course you believe that what we really need in our schools is a bunch of neurotic sycophants who can't relate to any students with sub-genius IQs... oh :stare:

Also when you look at what a 91-99 ATAR lets you do at uni, as well as the type of personality required to achieve that kind of score, it's pretty loving obvious why none of them want to spend years studying for a $60k job with almost no realistic prospect of full time work in the first two or three years out of uni.

That aside, you shouldn't even be allowed to enrol in a teaching degree until you're at least 25.

Smegmatron fucked around with this message at 05:32 on Jun 23, 2014

HookShot
Dec 26, 2005

Gough Suppressant posted:

I didn't think any canadians played hockey, I thought they only played ice hockey :confused:

Hockey is played on ice, field hockey is the one no one here plays :colbert:

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Quantum Mechanic
Apr 25, 2010

Just another fuckwit who thrives on fake moral outrage.
:derp:Waaaah the Christians are out to get me:derp:

lol abbottsgonnawin
NSW Greens have just voted to block supply 8D

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