|
I think the blurby nature of what you've got works fairly effectively and makes it seem interesting. Providing it does accurately represent your novel in the way you want, of course. Blurby-ness can be good at hooking an agent just like it would a reader. As is my experience. I interned for an agent for like half a year, but that doesn't mean I know what I'm talking about. But if that's all you've got then you're not really cutting the mustard, just hastily putting it into a ramkin. So I think your blurb is all right. But I'd suggest adding a couple of things: 1) More context/information about your novel. All you have is this at the moment: magnificent7 posted:SNAPSHOT is a 51,000-word thriller with bloody bodies, shallow graves and old people who can't run that fast. It's my first novel. Give a bit more non-blurby information about your novel along with this stuff. Like why you think it's exciting, what your USP (unique selling point) is if you have one. Maybe mention anything about yourself if it's relevant too. Studied English or something? Always loved reading thrillers? Sprinkle yourself on that. 2) Personalise your query to each agent or publisher or they might get a little bit sad. I know often the case can be that you eventually just send it wherever you can, but there must still be some reason you send it to them and not some totally unrelated agent/publisher. What else have they published or who else have they worked with? What makes you think your writing would be a good fit for them? It's a two way street of them looking for what you can offer, and you for what they can offer. Let you know what you think about that relationship specifically. Hope that helps a little bit! As for order, whatever you think feels right I guess. Sometimes it seems to be good to open with something a bit blurby to hook that fish. Might want to trim your blurb a bit though. Try and think elevator pitch. While I'm thinking about it maybe try. 1) Blurby hook paragraph ("Marvin Hill is too old for this nonsense. Killing bums used to...") 2) Contextual paragraph ("SNAPSHOT is a 61,000-word thriller with...") 3) Why you're sending a query ("I'm contacting you with this manuscript query because I really...") 4) Thank you bye It's a format I've definitely seen work. And I have definitely seen a good query letter (with a juicy as hell blurby bit and contextual information) sell someone on what turned out to be quite a bad manuscript (read by me). Good luck! Also if you're sending multiple queries be up front with that.
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 02:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:14 |
|
|
Reading that query: 1) this sounds like vigilante justice porn with this nice old man killing bums to keep his city "clean," and fuuuuck no, I do not want to read that. 2) nagging ghost? Wtf. Is that going to be funny? Creepy? Is this a paranormal thriller? 3) I also get no sense that this is a book about a college-aged woman investigating a crime. I LIKE that kind of book. 4) if those are the stakes for your main character.... Uh, those are lovely stakes, why is she your main character? 5) how is this a thriller? What is thrilling? MC needs to face some kind of thrilling threat, and since Mary is dead and her grandpa is trying to protect her, not kill her....where is the threat? Mary could be the biggest threat, but she is already dead. Is she going to nag grandpa into killing Kate? Wtf is she even nagging him about? "Could you water the rises on my grave a little more often? You never visit anymore. Why doesn't Kate find a nice doctor to settle down with?"
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 02:52
|
|
|
Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Reading that query:
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 03:06
|
|
|
Anomalous Blowout posted:2. This reads more like the blurb on the back of a finished book than a query letter. This is interesting because the stuff I read on Query Shark suggests that a LOT of query letters follow the same basic structure, and open up with the kind of back-of-book blurb used here. Of course, Query Shark is where bad query letters go to get beaten into shape, but I've never seen (or maybe I just blocked out) any criticism against using blurbs. What am I missing here?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 03:57
|
|
|
DivisionPost posted:This is interesting because the stuff I read on Query Shark suggests that a LOT of query letters follow the same basic structure, and open up with the kind of back-of-book blurb used here. Yeah, sorry, I could have phrased that better - there's no problem with a query being blurby, but what struck me was there wasn't much additional information of the not-blurby variety. I admit it's been a while since I caught up on Query Shark but I recall that some information on who the book is intended to appeal to and why the agent should be interested are important bits of a good query. Basically there isn't much in his query that actually tries to SELL the book, just describes the premise and characters in pretty broad strokes. Given the ambiguity of how he describes the premise and characters and the slightly comedic tone of the query, a bit of "this would appeal to fans of..." would probably help a lot because I can't figure out if it's supposed to be a paranormal-ish thriller or a jokey ghost comedy.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 04:19
|
|
|
Slightly obscure question, but maybe someone will have some answers. As a writer, my biggest influences are David Foster Wallace and Thomas Pynchon. I have a blast writing stories in a mix of their styles and trying to add some of my own. My question is where I can send this stuff. Does anyone know which are the best literary journals to read experimental short stories? I want to both subscribe to and submit to some places that often publish this type of material, but I'm having a hard time sorting through all the options. I spent a few hours in my local bookstore today and read N+1 which had a hilarious piece in the structure of a play, and a couple stories from a McSweeny's. Both of those publications seem like good bets for my type of stuff. What else? And yes, I will actually read the magazines, not just blindly submit.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
DivisionPost posted:This is interesting because the stuff I read on Query Shark suggests that a LOT of query letters follow the same basic structure, and open up with the kind of back-of-book blurb used here. I went through Queryshark at the suggestion of somebody on here, and used a lot of her guidelines as the basis for my letter. Of course - there's STILL the problem of condensing a complex tale, (with moments of odd comedy to break up the suspense) into a short letter. Who knew how hard it could be to summarize a thing you've been working on for over eight months? I could tell you a summary, but every time I've tried to do it in a single pass that encapsulates the important parts, I get stuck in my tracks.
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 05:52
|
|
|
magnificent7 posted:I went through Queryshark at the suggestion of somebody on here, and used a lot of her guidelines as the basis for my letter. Of course - there's STILL the problem of condensing a complex tale, (with moments of odd comedy to break up the suspense) into a short letter. Who knew how hard it could be to summarize a thing you've been working on for over eight months? I could tell you a summary, but every time I've tried to do it in a single pass that encapsulates the important parts, I get stuck in my tracks. You really should keep working on this kind of summary. It's important both for queries and for the story. I suggest making a retrospective plot outline--the plot you have actually written already. What is the main thrust of your book? The main goal, the main obstacle, even the "theme." What are the act breaks? The main decisions made by your characters and the consequences of those choices? A good blurb will usually take you through the end of Act I, in my opinion, right up to the major choice that gets the protagonist firmly embroiled in the main conflict. Also, take a look at "suggested" outlines. I'm a fan of the Save The Cat beat sheet, but that is by no means the ONE TRUE WAY to structure a story. But I think it is particularly helpful in getting through the often-challenging first half of Act II. I'm not saying follow it exactly, but check it out, and see if it gives you any ideas for 1) how to look at your plot for writing the condensed version, and 2) any places you can build on to add the extra words you need. You can also examine that picture of an angler fish or dragon or whatever, I think it covers a lot of the same points. You really do need to be able to explain your own book in a short summary, and if I got totally the wrong idea from your current blurb, keep working on it. Edit: the difficulty in summarizing indicates a lack of clarity, the process of summarizing will improve clarity. Improved clarity will make summarizing easier, and almost certainly help you improve the story as well. Keep on cycling. Dr. Kloctopussy fucked around with this message at 09:20 on Jun 20, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 09:17
|
|
|
blue squares posted:Slightly obscure question, but maybe someone will have some answers. As a writer, my biggest influences are David Foster Wallace and Thomas Pynchon. I have a blast writing stories in a mix of their styles and trying to add some of my own. My question is where I can send this stuff. Does anyone know which are the best literary journals to read experimental short stories? I want to both subscribe to and submit to some places that often publish this type of material, but I'm having a hard time sorting through all the options. I spent a few hours in my local bookstore today and read N+1 which had a hilarious piece in the structure of a play, and a couple stories from a McSweeny's. Both of those publications seem like good bets for my type of stuff. What else? Have you tried The New Yorker?
|
|
#
?
Jun 20, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Unless that book is supposed to be a kooky comedy about my whacky grandpa who whacks people, the tone seems wrong - I am definitely not thinking "thriller". That query also says that Marvin is the main character. If he is not, then either your query or your novel needs a rewrite. If Kate is your main character, what is the book about? I've heard that for a query, you need to answer these questions: - What does your protagonist want? - How far will they go to get it? - How far will someone go to prevent them from getting it? - What are the stakes if they fail? You're not answering any of those with respect to Kate. This sounds like a story about Kate's grandfather, which is troublesome, because he does not seem like an especially appealing protagonist. Also, Kate being a lesbian does not belong on the query, it's an incidental detail when your story is a thriller about murdering grandpas. Stick to the most pertinent facts. Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Reading that query: This is just my personal opinion, but I agree as well. I read the first chapter which showed the old man burying a victim, and I did not care for him as a protagonist. First impressions count big-time, and having the very first thing Grandpa does is being a serial killer burying a body is going to overwhelm all other qualities he might have, good or bad from that point on. But that may just be me. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Jun 21, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 00:06
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:Unless that book is supposed to be a kooky comedy about my whacky grandpa who whacks people, the tone seems wrong - I am definitely not thinking "thriller". That query also says that Marvin is the main character. If he is not, then either your query or your novel needs a rewrite. That was a joke; I appreciate everybody's input on this. When you've spent 8+ months on a story, it's hard to step back and condense it down in a clear concise way. The grandfather is supposed to be disliked. He's not the protag. I gotta work on the query a lot more. Thanks everybody.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 00:19
|
|
|
magnificent7 posted:I really hate it when you people are right. For an experiment, try this: Re-write the query from the point of view of Kate, who does not know her Grandpa is a serial killer. Don't tell us anything about Kate's grandpa that Kate does not know. How does her story start, what does she want, what are the stakes, how far will she go.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Have you tried The New Yorker? Are you being sarcastic? I love the New Yorker but have no illusions about getting published there anytime soon.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 00:38
|
|
|
You can still submit there though. I would submit at the highest markets first and work your way down.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 02:35
|
|
|
I know this will sound like an absurdly nice problem to have, but it's really bothering me. I have my first story in an anthology coming up, written by invitation. I'll be alongside a bunch of authors I really respect. The problem is that the story's just dreadful. I reread it for proofs and I can't stand it at all.  I don't think it's just the usual self-conscious preciousness writers have, either; it really is a pretty unsuccessful piece of fiction on nearly every level.I don't know what to do. I'm going to be ashamed to see it, and odds are it'll be the worst piece in the anthology by a good margin. But I don't want to pull it - it's a sale, and I'd be inconveniencing the editor hugely if I pulled out now. I might be able to pull out a heroic rewrite at the last minute, but it's so very late. I apologize again for what must seem like a lot of angst about a good thing, but it's eating me up.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 07:35
|
|
|
So, it was written by invitation, but have the editors read and approved it for final? And, if so, did they make any comments? Really, you are your own worst critic, which isn't necessarily a bad thing; it means you want to do well, and your writing means a lot to you. But, unless the editor has some issue with it, just go with it, man. If they like and want to publish the story, then that is all that matters in the end. You've made an audience happy. If you really are alongside other authors you enjoy, then how many times do you think that kind of opportunity will show up again if you pass on it now? Ride that tide, dude, and let us know when it's out. 
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 09:03
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:I know this will sound like an absurdly nice problem to have, but it's really bothering me. I have my first story in an anthology coming up, written by invitation. I'll be alongside a bunch of authors I really respect. The problem is that the story's just dreadful. I reread it for proofs and I can't stand it at all. You seem a really nice guy Battuta, and I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but that is a total humblebrag. Talk to the editor: that is their job, after all. If they agree they can help fix it, if they don't; well, it's their anthology.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 09:54
|
|
|
General Battuta posted:I know this will sound like an absurdly nice problem to have, but it's really bothering me. I have my first story in an anthology coming up, written by invitation. I'll be alongside a bunch of authors I really respect. The problem is that the story's just dreadful. I reread it for proofs and I can't stand it at all. Well really-- say that to the editor, you know? This is what you've got, you're really unsatisfied with the work, but you don't want to pull out, what do they suggest? Sometimes fresh eyes are the important thing for that kind of work in the first place, and there is, as always, the chance that your current impression of the piece is wrong. But you wouldn't have been invited if the editor wasn't willing to work with you, so work with the editor. If it really is the crap you think it is, you know, they'll work it out in some way or another and you'll look better for having tried to work it out with them rather than just tossing it in their lap as-is or fleeing.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 11:43
|
|
|
Not knowing the publisher or the anthology in question, just an assumption of mine: I imagine that editor is being paid. You were invited to be part of the project. It is that editor's job to ensure all pieces are up to snuff, even yours if it's actually poo poo (it may not be, we are our own worst enemies). Trust their editing team. I have never been happier as a writer than I currently am with my sportswriting because I have reached the stage where I feel like my editors improve my work and help me write better. It is, after all, their job.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 11:52
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:You seem a really nice guy Battuta, and I'm sure you don't mean it that way, but that is a total humblebrag. Talk to the editor: that is their job, after all. If they agree they can help fix it, if they don't; well, it's their anthology. I'm sure it sounds that way, but it feels like one of these social terror dreams where you realize you're conducting the orchestra with no pants. Nobody wants to be the standout bad story, especially not if it's your first appearance in an anthology. I've already spoken to the editor, and I suppose we'll see what can be done.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 15:52
|
|
|
My take: I've got a story coming up in an invitational anthology, myself (it's something put together by a bunch of people on another message board), and I think my story's pretty dreadful. But nobody else has told me so at this point, so I'm just going to defer to their judgment. Hopefully that'll work out in the end. Has anyone else ever read The Courage to Write? It's all about the anxiety professional authors feel about their writing, and it includes anxieties just like this.
|
|
#
?
Jun 21, 2014 16:56
|
|
|
How do you guys feel about certain plot point being revealed early in the story? As in, Chapter 1 early? See, in my story: 1: Protagonist has lovely starship 2: Sponsors refurbish lovely starship 3: Sponsors reveal that they're with Central Intelligence, BUT- 3A: They don't really want Protagonist to take part in Intelligence work. 3B: They just needed to spend their remaining annual budget to avoid it being cut next year. 3C: Also one of them needs a vacation. All of this is the main thrust of Chapter 1, with the rest (I have another 11 tentatively planned and mapped out) being 4: SPACE ADVENTURES. Do you think this works?
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 02:57
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:How do you guys feel about certain plot point being revealed early in the story? As in, Chapter 1 early? See, in my story: How long is the chapter? Never mind. This seems like too much stuff for Chapter 1. In fact, I'd say that sounds like at least two or three chapters to me. Sci-Fi/Fantasy features the fantastic, and tends to need a lot more explanation. Even if it didn't, you need to establish some stuff first. Chapter 1 should be your introduction to the world and your lovely starship. Spend some time establishing how lovely it is, to make the upgrade to a new ship seem meaningful. Maybe end Chapter 1 with the guy coming in and saying "I've got a proposition for you"? Chapter 2 would be the refit or whatever, with the captain getting hyped up at the idea of being a space spy or something. Maybe partway through, THEN you have them go "uh well, actually..." *** What does the protagonist want, back when he has a lovely starship? What does he want after he gets the brand new one? (I'm guessing he wants to be a cool Captain-Spy.) I'll take a stab and say that most of the book's plot comes from the Captain trying to prove his worth as a spy, and getting into trouble. Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 03:14 on Jun 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 03:11
|
|
|
Stabbey_the_Clown posted:What does the protagonist want, back when he has a lovely starship? What does he want after he gets the brand new one? (I'm guessing he wants to be a cool Captain-Spy.) I'll take a stab and say that most of the book's plot comes from the Captain trying to prove his worth as a spy, and getting into trouble. She's actually a trader who wants a steady business, that's all. There's a few more twists in the upcoming chapters, but this is all I'm planning to reveal so far. As for preliminary worldbuilding, I've decided to move that to a prologue chapter instead.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 03:49
|
|
|
Info dump in the prologue sounds great. Not.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 04:35
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:How do you guys feel about certain plot point being revealed early in the story? As in, Chapter 1 early? See, in my story: This sounds like a Douglas Adams kind of story, and he would totally have jammed all that into a single chapter. If you can make it snappy, easy to follow, and fun, then do it.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 04:41
|
|
|
CommissarMega posted:She's actually a trader who wants a steady business, that's all. There's a few more twists in the upcoming chapters, but this is all I'm planning to reveal so far. As for preliminary worldbuilding, I've decided to move that to a prologue chapter instead. Yeah if you do that, that's going to make anyone who reads it skip the prologue as soon as they realize what's happening. And if they skip the prologue and can follow along with the story fine, you could have saved everyone the trouble and just cut it entirely.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 04:42
|
|
|
Dr. Kloctopussy posted:Info dump in the prologue sounds great. Not. I should hope it isn't! It's along the lines of (preliminary copy): quote:Stereotypical as it was for an orc, Harguk could almost smell the tension. Everything in the control room seemed normal, with techs and staff quietly working on and around their consoles, their Concord Navy uniforms clean and pressed, epaulettes gleaming in Windfall’s sun- but it was there. Faint, true, but there- a twinge of fear and tension in the control room’s air. It just wasn't natural, all these pirate attacks in the outlying systems- and most worryingly of all, those behind Windfall in the ley-line network. EDIT: Basically, I'm writing the prologue to start the story off with a bang (with some worldbuilding snuck in), cool things down for the first chapter, then ratchet things up again.
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 04:43
|
|
|
gently caress I just realized the story I'm writing for that TOR.com thing isn't going to be near 17500 words. I'm like a two thirds through and it's only 7k. This makes me sad
|
|
#
?
Jun 26, 2014 22:06
|
|
|
We've all heard the maxim "show don't tell". Can I get a example of too much show? I also need some help with structuring dialog.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 00:33
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:I also need some help with structuring dialog. What part of dialogue are you having trouble with? Putting together a conversation, putting together individual lines, the tags (he said, etc)?
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:05
|
|
|
Djeser posted:What part of dialogue are you having trouble with? Putting together a conversation, putting together individual lines, the tags (he said, etc)? The tags and ways to potray verbal idiosyncrasies. (Stammers, distorted vocal pitches, heavy accents etc)
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:12
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:We've all heard the maxim "show don't tell". Can I get a example of too much show? Jacques Sauniere, reknowned curator, pulled his elegant and stylish coat around him against the cold and eyed the famous rock singer, who was called Mick Jagger. "Your pants are too large for you, sir," he said. The legendary rock singer smiled because he knew his pants were exactly the right size to hold the eleven inch ball of pure gold with a street value of one million dollars he had stuffed down there.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:15
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:Jacques Sauniere, reknowned curator, pulled his elegant and stylish coat around him against the cold and eyed the famous rock singer, who was called Mick Jagger. "Your pants are too large for you, sir," he said. The legendary rock singer smiled because he knew his pants were exactly the right size to hold the eleven inch ball of pure gold with a street value of one million dollars he had stuffed down there. Son of a bitch http://i.somethingawful.com/images/emot-dance.gif My issue is that I don't know to depict three guys arguing with their mentor. They keep talking over each other until the mentor loses his cool and breaks into a rant.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:Son of a bitch http://i.somethingawful.com/images/emot-dance.gif Each of the three is having a different conversation, in his head, than the others. They keep correcting each other on what they're actually talking about. Also: people never talk to each other. They talk around, through, over, against each other.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:36
|
|
|
sebmojo posted:Each of the three is having a different conversation, in his head, than the others. They keep correcting each other on what they're actually talking about. So how would I portray that? I basically gave up and made each of them take their turns and collectively guffaw at the mentor's outrageous indifference.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:42
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:The tags and ways to potray verbal idiosyncrasies. (Stammers, distorted vocal pitches, heavy accents etc) When you're adding in verbal idiosyncrasies, be careful, because it's very easy to get to the point where it's almost difficult to understand. The best way to clearly convey different voices is through word choice and sentence structure. You can still throw in one or two more obvious verbal tics, but once the reader has a clear idea of the character's voice, you don't need to constantly remind them. The subtle differences in the way you write the dialogue will keep those accents in mind. As for the tags, remember that 'said' is invisible. If you feel like you're using it too much, you can let the sentences attribute themselves. If you're trying to show people interrupting each other, you should put the cut-off words right next to the next person's words, but on a separate paragraph. Or, at the very least, move from cutting off one person to whatever action cuts them off As so: quote:"I don't think we should kung fu lawyer our way to victory in the Stevenson case," Bruce Fightsman said. "We are men of--"
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:42
|
|
|
gently caress, you people are way better than me. Another Question: What's the proper sound effect for getting kicked in the dick? [italics] He crumpled with a squeel[/italics] just isn't doing it for me. quote:Lamenting his crushed manhood, Byron contorted in a puddle of his own hemorrhaging piss.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 01:55
|
|
|
Sithsaber posted:gently caress, you people are way better than me. sithsaver, fyi, italics is [ i ] and [ / i ] (without the spaces, or you can highlight the text and go ctrl i) and you do emoticons by going : (emoticon name) :.
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 02:55
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 15, 2024 15:14 |
|
|
The man fell over and grabbed at his pants like he'd just been kicked in the dick. "Ow, you kicked me in the dick!" Other man spun around in a post-dick-kicking fashion and popped his collar. "I sure did. Straight in the dick, EL HOMBRE." The man massaged his dick that had so recently been kicked, and whimpered. "Please don't kick me in the dick again." The other man flicked his cigarette to the ground. "Then tell me where Mick Jagger hides his gold."
|
|
#
?
Jun 27, 2014 02:58
|
|
