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Some people want to crowdfund their house purchase. http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/24/real-estate-crowdfunding/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__lsa=2092-dbe1
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Jun 26, 2014 06:03
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Cultural Imperial posted:Some people want to crowdfund their house purchase. Financial Post posted:“We’ve shown that real estate is a safe asset,” he added. “It’s easy to valuate and people understand it.”  Also, Financial Post posted:He said real estate entrepreneurs are not all scam artists and can still be innovative and create jobs. Well, OK, most of us are, but...
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Jun 26, 2014 07:32
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A well researched and thought out Op-Ed on the state of Vancouver Real Estate prices and it's affect on the city. The highlight is the suggested 100% property value tax, which is fine because it would only be assessed to those people anyways.
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Jun 26, 2014 18:58
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ocrumsprug posted:A well researched and thought out Op-Ed on the state of Vancouver Real Estate prices and it's affect on the city. This Spencer guy is dumb as hell.
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Jun 26, 2014 20:35
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there are so many weird racist undertones and stupid generalizations in that "article" edit: the highlight for me was his idea for a 10 year tax vacation for small businesses (of which he is an owner) RBC fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Jun 26, 2014 |
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Jun 26, 2014 20:44
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A friend sent that to me the other day. Probably my favourite part is how he literally describes wealthy Chinese immigrants as "zero-value people."
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Jun 26, 2014 21:33
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http://business.financialpost.com/2014/06/26/canada-housing-market-osfi/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitterquote:
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Jun 26, 2014 22:56
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Vancouver condo, valued at $370K, sells for just $1,647 — before city council cancels the salequote:But at a meeting Tuesday, city councillors voted to cancel the sale after it was discovered that the property’s taxes were not in arrears after all. According to a report from staff, the owner had paid all taxes owed before the sale, but “due to a clerical error, the payment was applied to a different property.” Suuuuuuuuure they were.  MeinPanzer posted:A friend sent that to me the other day. Probably my favourite part is how he literally describes wealthy Chinese immigrants as "zero-value people." "From The loving Article posted:A very large percentage of wealthy foreigners who “park” their money here don’t actually live in Vancouver. Take a drive around most expensive areas and you’ll realize the homes are empty. At most, they send their kids to live in Vancouver, learn english/go to school, and then return to their country (usually to Hong Kong). For some reason this is okay with people who live here. The amount of value added to a city from this sort of activity approaches zero. In fact, I’d argue that these people actually leech off of the system more than anything else. I still struggle to understand the level of white guilt that people like you must be struggling under, to look at a paragraph like that and twist it into racism rather than "yeah, you know what, that's a pretty accurate statement." I mean, he doesn't even touch on the fact that these people will be coming back to Canada to retire on our medical and social assistance programs, after a lifetime of not paying a dime into the system. 
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Jun 26, 2014 22:56
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Wasn't there a recent report that showed that Filipino care aids contribute several times more money in taxes than the rich Chinese investor immigrants?
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Jun 26, 2014 23:15
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Even if they don't live here full time they still pay taxes for the property which must be at least $10,000 a year. They would have to hire gardener/lawnmower while they're away. They would have to buy furniture and groceries and food which contributes to both local businesses and taxes. It's not exactly zero value. It's definitely not ideal but they probably put more into the system than take away.
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Jun 26, 2014 23:29
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ianmacdo posted:Wasn't there a recent report that showed that Filipino care aids contribute several times more money in taxes than the rich Chinese investor immigrants? That would be awesome if you could find this.
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Jun 26, 2014 23:39
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Rime posted:Vancouver condo, valued at $370K, sells for just $1,647 — before city council cancels the sale Because it's a gross generalization about a specific race of people without any facts to paint them in a derogatory manner. That's the definition of racism. You can call it xenophobia, if you prefer.
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Jun 27, 2014 00:20
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What if the people that they paid the inflated house price to are white? That makes it OK right? Or is it only a specific sub-race of whites ("those who want to buy more houses for cheap") that we care about?
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Jun 27, 2014 00:23
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RBC posted:Because it's a gross generalization about a specific race of people without any facts to paint them in a derogatory manner. That's the definition of racism. You can call it xenophobia, if you prefer. I don't even know how to respond to this kind of idiocy in a moderate and polite fashion, time for a long bike ride.
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Jun 27, 2014 00:58
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I'll just give the benefit of the doubt and assume Poe's Law applies. That article is a manifestation of the creeping racism that everyone's gets to enjoy over the next few years. It is so well rationalized the writer probably would be mortally insulted if you called his opinions racist.
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Jun 27, 2014 01:30
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xerxus posted:They would have to hire gardener/lawnmower while they're away. You'd think so, but there's this game I like to play on my travels around Vancouver. It's called "spot the absentee home owner". It involves looking for overgrown yards and seeing if all the curtains on the house are drawn. It's not a very hard game. Try it!
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Jun 27, 2014 01:49
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It would be fantastic if there were a parallel universe where ethnic white German nationals take the place of Hongkongers in the Vancouver RE narrative. Whether or not you think there's actual racism going on here, there's basically no chance of having a serious discussion about the role of the 'other' thanks to the racial dynamic, real or imagined.
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Jun 27, 2014 02:10
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Rime posted:I still struggle to understand the level of white guilt that people like you must be struggling under, to look at a paragraph like that and twist it into racism rather than "yeah, you know what, that's a pretty accurate statement." Show me the studies that demonstrate that what he said is true. Like so much related to foreign investment in BC real estate, I'm seeing a lot of claims but not a lot of empirical evidence. Also, the author of that op-ed doesn't even realize that the majority of immigrants coming to Canada in recent years are from mainland China, not Hong Kong. Not to mention that he doesn't consider any possible domestic cause of inflated real estate prices - like, you know, low APR long-term mortgages. He's basically blaming the entire situation on wealthy Chinese immigrants, which is absurd. MeinPanzer fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Jun 27, 2014 |
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Jun 27, 2014 02:31
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Lexicon posted:It would be fantastic if there were a parallel universe where ethnic white German nationals take the place of Hongkongers in the Vancouver RE narrative. Funny you say that. Apparently Vancouver in the 60's was a cesspool of anti-german bigots. Two friends of mine with German fathers who immigrated around then told me that the grew up in the 70s segregated from good white canadians.
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Jun 27, 2014 02:44
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Cultural Imperial posted:Funny you say that. Apparently Vancouver in the 60's was a cesspool of anti-german bigots. Two friends of mine with German fathers who immigrated around then told me that the grew up in the 70s segregated from good white canadians. I'm sure the people who leap to the defence of the Chinese have just the most wonderful things to say about First Nations as well, behind closed doors of course.
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Jun 27, 2014 02:49
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Scratch a progressive, and it turns out there's a racist/xenophobe just underneath (oh boy, if the real estate discussion isn't enough, just look at the TFW discussion)! Embrace your anger, young Skywalker, and your journey toward the dark side will be complete.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:26
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I might be way out there, but I think the "Rich Chinese" are simply an easy target for growing class unease. Specially in a place like Vancouver where you have to be filthy rich to have something as basic as a house, something the "(north)american dream" promises us all. But we're still north americans, we aren't allowed to hate the rich or admit class is a huge problem. Vancouver can't say "gently caress the rich, gently caress the capitalist class and specially gently caress this lovely realestate investment class" because we're north americans, we just don't do that. The rich have earned their success and deserve their mansions. But those chinese?? They're an other. I bet they didn't even earn their riches like our rich did! Those rich chinese, they aren't like our filthy rich who are all pillars of the community and contribute to the economy. No no the chinese isolate them selves and don't contribute to the community, in fact they probably damage it. Basically the hate the "rich chinese" get is simply the pent up class issues of a society where racism is more acceptable than "class war". Or at least that's my lovely armchair Marxist psychology take.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:32
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Baronjutter posted:I might be way out there, but I think the "Rich Chinese" are simply an easy target for growing class unease. Specially in a place like Vancouver where you have to be filthy rich to have something as basic as a house, something the "(north)american dream" promises us all. It's not even an inherently modern/capitalist thing - a major point of opposing Jews in earlier times was that they had tons of money and were outsiders.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:36
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computer parts posted:It's not even an inherently modern/capitalist thing - a major point of opposing Jews in earlier times was that they had tons of money and were outsiders. If we follow this train of thought too far, we have to address the question of "was it okay to hate Jews because they had money?" And, frankly, that's a conundrum I really want to see a bunch of socialists puzzle out, so I very much approve it as a future topic for this thread.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:39
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Baronjutter posted:I might be way out there, but I think the "Rich Chinese" are simply an easy target for growing class unease. Specially in a place like Vancouver where you have to be filthy rich to have something as basic as a house, something the "(north)american dream" promises us all. I don't really think you understand what it takes to foment the hate of a thousand welsh coal miners. Canada doesn't have a class problem. Not by a long shot. Besides, all those people borrowing money to experience the pride of ownership are your comrades, zirping up that sweet sweet nectar of cmhc subprime insurance.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:43
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Cultural Imperial posted:I don't really think you understand what it takes to foment the hate of a thousand welsh coal miners. Canada doesn't have a class problem. Not by a long shot. Besides, all those people borrowing money to experience the pride of ownership are your comrades, zirping up that sweet sweet nectar of cmhc subprime insurance. There isn't really a huge level of hate. What do the rich Chinese get, a few articles sort of being a bit wink wink racist? They don't actually face any actual discrimination let alone hardship or threats. But the resentment is there, just sort of simmering on the back burner. I also think they're mostly a red herring until someone provides some actual hard data showing "they" are some how distorting the market. The CMHC's impact would absolutely dwarf what ever minor ripple they've caused. But it's so much easier to blame some rich outsiders than take a good hard look at our own financial system and government, let alone our cultural obsession with home ownership.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:54
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Baronjutter posted:There isn't really a huge level of hate. What do the rich Chinese get, a few articles sort of being a bit wink wink racist? They don't actually face any actual discrimination let alone hardship or threats. But the resentment is there, just sort of simmering on the back burner. Yeah the whole rich foreigner narrative is a convenient red herring since it helps distracts from the reality that it's easy credit and moral hazard that actually caused the housing crisis. So it's not Canadians having ownership of the problem but rather something caused by selfish foreigners invading local markets.
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Jun 27, 2014 05:56
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drat PT6A, you are on fiyah!
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Jun 27, 2014 05:58
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B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!
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http://m.scmp.com/news/world/article/1541520/canada-court-rejects-millionaire-migrants-compensation-claim-over-defunctquote:Canadian court rejects millionaire migrants’ compensation claim over defunct visa scheme
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Jun 27, 2014 06:38
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Is Canada like the US where they can just immigrate illegally anyways and nobody will do anything about it, and they will later get amnesty?
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Jun 27, 2014 06:53
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So like you guys who are mad about people mad about worthless rich people moving in and contributing nothing to the country, do you think that's a good thing that we want to happen? Like forget about whatever stupid thing you're mad about, do you seriously believe that Vancouver, or any other place, will be made better by having a bunch of rich people that don't work or contribute anything to society at all move in? I mean I don't know if you've been paying attention but rich people generally aren't worth much to anybody but themselves.
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Jun 27, 2014 07:00
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etalian posted:Yeah the whole rich foreigner narrative is a convenient red herring since it helps distracts from the reality that it's easy credit and moral hazard that actually caused the housing crisis. You're conflating the Canada situation with the Vancouver one. No one is even claiming that Canadian housing is expensive due to foreigners.
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Jun 27, 2014 07:09
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Cultural Imperial posted:http://m.scmp.com/news/world/article/1541520/canada-court-rejects-millionaire-migrants-compensation-claim-over-defunct The lawyer still made off like a bandit, since he charged $5000/head upfront. 
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Jun 27, 2014 07:28
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ChairMaster posted:So like you guys who are mad about people mad about worthless rich people moving in and contributing nothing to the country, do you think that's a good thing that we want to happen? Like forget about whatever stupid thing you're mad about, do you seriously believe that Vancouver, or any other place, will be made better by having a bunch of rich people that don't work or contribute anything to society at all move in? Given that if the foreigners mostly stay overseas, you've gotten a bunch of foreigners to basically give you money for free, which is a good thing. Also, the money primarily goes to older people who have owned houses for a long time, so the primary beneficiaries are your parents and grandparents, not the foreigners.
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Jun 27, 2014 07:35
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on the left posted:Given that if the foreigners mostly stay overseas, you've gotten a bunch of foreigners to basically give you money for free, which is a good thing. who is the 'you' here? Because individual gains are not terribly important if society at large doesn't see those gains (because most people don't own a house to be bought by foreign investors, and people without that tend to be worse off than those with it already)
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Jun 27, 2014 08:08
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JawKnee posted:who is the 'you' here? Because individual gains are not terribly important if society at large doesn't see those gains (because most people don't own a house to be bought by foreign investors, and people without that tend to be worse off than those with it already) Most people over 40-50 would have bought a house long enough ago to avoid the high prices, and i'd imagine that's a large enough share of the voting population of Canada to make a real difference
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Jun 27, 2014 08:10
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on the left posted:Most people over 40-50 would have bought a house long enough ago to avoid the high prices, and i'd imagine that's a large enough share of the voting population of Canada to make a real difference Doubly so because older people vote more and the baby boom happened.
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Jun 27, 2014 08:19
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on the left posted:Most people over 40-50 would have bought a house long enough ago to avoid the high prices, and i'd imagine that's a large enough share of the voting population of Canada to make a real difference But all those people are individuals though, so gently caress them. How does the individual gain of these helots benefit the fatherland? The loving mental gymnastics that Vancouverites will go through to justify their thinly veiled racism is amusing. "Welp, I can't think of any more reasons to curtail private property rights, so maybe private property should,like, just be abolished man!"
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Jun 27, 2014 08:33
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PT6A posted:If we follow this train of thought too far, we have to address the question of "was it okay to hate Jews because they had money?" But what you said is ridiculous so why would talk about it? What is your political stance btw? You don't like Socialists, don't like Leftists because of "what they could do" or something dumb, and you say you only vote Right because you don't have any other option.
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Jun 27, 2014 10:58
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Baronjutter posted:I might be way out there, but I think the "Rich Chinese" are simply an easy target for growing class unease. Specially in a place like Vancouver where you have to be filthy rich to have something as basic as a house, something the "(north)american dream" promises us all. This is exactly it. This recent spate of articles (there was this lovely op-ed, a New Yorker article, and an Economist article) on Vancouver's housing situation conveniently focuses on Chinese investors, but doesn't even touch on the fact that housing prices are elevated in all major Canadian cities. And, no, I don't want Vancouver to become a playground for the rich who buy up property and then contribute little to the city, but, again, I've seen no conclusive evidence that this is currently the case. About the best we have is this sparse collection, from that recent Economist article: quote:That analysis led to the conclusion that foreign investors own 8 out of every 100 apartments in pricey areas in downtown Vancouver. Another survey tracked where municipal assessments of property values were sent and found that less than 1% was mailed overseas to China. Yet another report counted mainland Chinese-sounding names on sales records for luxury homes that were priced at C$3m and more: 74% of the buyers ticked this box. The first two actually go towards demonstrating that Chinese investment in the Vancouver real estate market is pretty minimal compared to a lot of the claims being thrown around. The most damning point is certainly the last, but A) "mainland Chinese-sounding names" is seriously a poor criterion for identifying rich jetsetting foreigners (Chinese immigrants have been coming to Vancouver for decades and there's a bias towards investing in real estate in Chinese culture; what's not to say that a significant portion of these aren't wealthier permanent residents who are investing their money earned in Canada?), and B) it's not clear how much of an effect Chinese investment in the luxury real estate market would have on overall housing prices.
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Jun 27, 2014 13:00
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