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Reading here about Al Haig during the Nixon years suddenly makes his "I am in control here" freak-out after the assassination attempt on Reagan seem a lot more sensible.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:49
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mooyashi posted:President: The nuclear bomb, does that bother you?...I just want you to think big, Henry, for Christsakes. Good goddamn. "What Henry, too pussy to appreciate vaporizing a few million people and risking the deaths of billions in global nuclear war, all for no reason? You mary" 
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Jun 29, 2014 05:52
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Does anyone still have those Adam Smith quotes about how even he didn't agree with a totally free market?
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Jun 29, 2014 05:52
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gradenko_2000 posted:Does anyone still have those Adam Smith quotes about how even he didn't agree with a totally free market? No, but there's this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wegHBgfqoVo
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Jun 29, 2014 05:54
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Accretionist posted:And how do you think the no-cops alternative would play out? Ah, yes. The only alternative to the ever-expanding abuses and militarization of the police: no cops at all.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:56
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SedanChair posted:Ah, yes. The only alternative to the ever-expanding abuses and militarization of the police: no cops at all. That it'd be an improvement follows from saying they're a net negative.
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Jun 29, 2014 05:59
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SedanChair posted:No cop makes the world a better place, period. 
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Jun 29, 2014 06:01
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Nixon, aged 10 posted:Nov. 12, 1923 Nixon had issues.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:02
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SedanChair posted:Who gives a poo poo? Maybe they visited kids' hospitals too. quote:It doesn't matter what they do that's good. You call it that, I call it being a human being  It is entirely possible for people to be good people on an individual level but be, well, college cops, on an organizational level. They know what is going on, I had more than one drunkenly open up to me about how the rape statistics were completely buried to make the school look better and he wouldn't let his daughter go there. There is just a sense of nihilism about fixing it and I don't even know what to tell them, much less what to do to make it better
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Jun 29, 2014 06:02
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Jesus christ you're talking about campus police? Way to matter.Accretionist posted:That it'd be an improvement follows from saying they're a net negative. 1) I didn't say they're a net negative, although you could argue it, and I will right now: they're a net negative. 2) It's piss-poor reasoning to infer that any criticism of a system being a net negative necessarily invokes a need to immediately destroy it without considering the effects. 3) What I am saying is that police do enough bad as a part of their job that the good they do is irrelevant. 4) gently caress it, let's go ahead and do it. Replace every cop with a social worker.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:06
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Fried Chicken posted:There is just a sense of nihilism about fixing it and I don't even know what to tell them, much less what to do to make it better Are you serious? They wish they could do something. They claim knowdlege of secret conspiracies when drunk. They cut corner when convenient. Are you trying to see if we pick up that they are the rapist??
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Jun 29, 2014 06:13
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SedanChair is trolling, right? His stated position is advocating for a world without law enforcement-unless he's proposing the military enforce the laws.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:15
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There's a reported shooting in progress on the east side of town! Send in the social workers.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:15
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I'm exaggerating, but yeah. Cops don't exist to stop shootings. Jesus, has it really gotten that lax around here? Cops? Really?
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Jun 29, 2014 06:16
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Discendo Vox posted:SedanChair is trolling, right? His stated position is advocating for a world without law enforcement-unless he's proposing the military enforce the laws. Nah, he just wants Judge Dredd.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:16
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SedanChair posted:It's piss-poor reasoning to infer that any criticism of a system being a net negative necessarily invokes a need to immediately destroy it without considering the effects. It's piss poor reasoning that underlies loving up your read of a rhetorical question that badly. You have to factor in all the poo poo they're corking up. There's plenty of incredibly corrupt departments which are a net negative but in general? Really?
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Jun 29, 2014 06:16
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SedanChair posted:Jesus christ you're talking about campus police? Way to matter. Femur posted:Are you serious? They wish they could do something. They claim knowdlege of secret conspiracies when drunk. They cut corner when convenient.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:18
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Accretionist posted:It's piss poor reasoning that underlies loving up your read of a rhetorical question that badly. It wasn't a rhetorical question, it was a stupid hyperbolic pretend case of the vapors, popular among cop apologists when anyone suggests the system is too far gone to save.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:19
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Oh man, do I get to talk about tone? SedanChair, you've made it impossible to distinguish your rhetorical position from your actual one. That you continue to respond in a rhetorical manner makes your audience feel that you aren't speaking or acting in good faith.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:27
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SedanChair posted:I'm exaggerating, but yeah. Cops don't exist to stop shootings.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:28
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The GBS one was mildly entertaining until fog tripper et al ruined it with gunchat.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:33
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Fried Chicken posted:How the gently caress do you get complaining about the administration manipulating statistics to "they are the criminals!" All co-conspirators share in the crime? But your story was weird because they are clearly lying, their statements of beliefs are not internally consistent.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:37
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Femur posted:All co-conspirators share in the crime? But your story was weird because they are clearly lying, their statements of beliefs are not internally consistent. you read too much fiction. See that red title of yours? Take it as a hint.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:38
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Cops are actually bad.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:38
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SedanChair posted:It wasn't a rhetorical question, it was a stupid hyperbolic pretend case of the vapors, popular among cop apologists when anyone suggests the system is too far gone to save. Your rhetorical posture is some silly poo poo if you're having this much trouble with its implications. Either they're a net negative, and their disappearance overnight would be good. Or they're a net positive, and their disappearance overnight would be bad. Which is it? You can't argue they're a net negative but paradoxically their disappearance would be bad.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:38
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His original statements were even stronger- they're not just bad in sum, they're categorically bad. I think SedanChair's position is best summed up as "the only good cop is a dead cop".
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Jun 29, 2014 06:43
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SedanChair posted:Ah, yes. The only alternative to the ever-expanding abuses and militarization of the police: no cops at all. It's better than the militarization of my dumbfuck neighbor and whatever other brokedick whistle-rear end who thinks their yard is a free-fire zone. I'll take that over eliminating the societal role of police officers any day.
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Jun 29, 2014 06:44
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Discendo Vox posted:Oh man, do I get to talk about tone? SedanChair, you've made it impossible to distinguish your rhetorical position from your actual one. That you continue to respond in a rhetorical manner makes your audience feel that you aren't speaking or acting in good faith. I just looked at your post with the same expression on my face as if it was a backed-up toilet. So your tone's great! You often seem to have a tough time making sense of things so let me spell it out real good. The policing system in the United States is broken. It was made broken. It was never not broken. It needs to be scrapped. That doesn't mean Judge Dredd or The Courier or hippie communes or something. Just Norway cops would be a start. How dense do you have to be not to get that? e: Discendo Vox posted:His original statements were even stronger- they're not just bad in sum, they're categorically bad. I think SedanChair's position is best summed up as "the only good cop is a dead cop". They are bad people. There are no good cops. Very obvious from context. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 06:59
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It's very difficult to understand your position of advocacy for a Norway style law enforcement system when your previous posts have been such gems of nuance, explanation and rigorous argumentation asSedanChair posted:Police are your enemies. SedanChair posted:No cop makes the world a better place, period. or, for that matter, SedanChair posted:They are bad people. There are no good cops. Very obvious from context. This last quote contradicts parts of the same post. Maybe this can be a collaborative project. Could other folks guess what they think SedanChair's position is? No one seems to be able to identify it, including SedanChair. Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 07:05
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what is the endgame here?
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Jun 29, 2014 07:07
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See what you've done, Sedanchair? You've got people coming out in support of the police. I hope you're happy. Some rhetoric, you've got. Miltank posted:what is the endgame here? SedanChair gets practice/feedback on inflammatory rhetoric. Accretionist fucked around with this message at 07:10 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 07:08
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no cops, no managers I mean for real though how is it controversial to argue that the police are, and have been, tools of repression, state violence, and social control since basically forever? It's bad. What the police do are bad. That some cops might be good and decent folks outside of their job doesn't really matter when they literally work for one of the most repressive institutions in our society.
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Jun 29, 2014 07:10
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Miltank posted:what is the endgame here? A derail to carry us through to the July thread
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Jun 29, 2014 07:17
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Swan Oat posted:no cops, no managers It's actually very controversial- it's strange to argue against the existence of law enforcement without presenting some alternative position. Asserting a flat negative isn't the same as asserting a meaningful policy position.
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Jun 29, 2014 07:19
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Discendo Vox posted:SedanChair is trolling, right? His stated position is advocating for a world without law enforcement-unless he's proposing the military enforce the laws. If everyone was armed and open carried there would be no need for cops. Checkmate gun grabbers 
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Jun 29, 2014 07:24
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Discendo Vox posted:It's actually very controversial- it's strange to argue against the existence of law enforcement without presenting some alternative position. Asserting a flat negative isn't the same as asserting a meaningful policy position. The solution is full communism.
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Jun 29, 2014 07:26
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Talking about the administration of justice, wotta fuckin' derail from politics!  Discendo Vox posted:It's actually very controversial- it's strange to argue against the existence of law enforcement without presenting some alternative position. Asserting a flat negative isn't the same as asserting a meaningful policy position. I realize you're a zombie centrist but do you, like, realize that it's possible to criticize a system as being harmful and yet not have a way to fix it? I'm giving you examples of law enforcement that are less corrupt, less worthless and you're like "buh buh that's inconsistent, I thought all cops were bad!" Because you need poo poo spoon-fed to you, I will give you a series of meaningful policy proposals. Ready? -demilitarize police: scrap APCs, riot gear and select-fire carbines. End all SWAT. -outlaw police unions -require cops live where they work -mandate community oversight boards with the power to fire -mandate always-on body cameras But all of that's tactical, understand? It won't make policing any more of a valuable institution, just a less damaging one. It will still be what it always has been, a tool to enforce prejudice and inequality. woke wedding drone fucked around with this message at 07:34 on Jun 29, 2014 |
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Jun 29, 2014 07:32
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Based on your final sentence, SedanChair, you're still avoiding an actual position beyond the categorical unethicality of law enforcement. The rest of your post kind of doesn't do anything in that regard.Swan Oat posted:The solution is full communism. Are you saying there would be no law enforcement under full communism, no need for law enforcement under communism, or that law enforcement stops being problematic under full communism?
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Jun 29, 2014 07:35
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Discendo Vox posted:Based on your final sentence, you're still avoiding an actual position beyond the categorical unethicality of law enforcement. The rest of your post kind of doesn't do anything in that regard. Write more clearly, please. What's your problem with what I'm saying? Take a position yourself.
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Jun 29, 2014 07:36
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Discendo Vox posted:It's actually very controversial- it's strange to argue against the existence of law enforcement without presenting some alternative position. Asserting a flat negative isn't the same as asserting a meaningful policy position. My alternative position is law enforcement that hasn't been thoroughly root-and-branch all-the-loving-way-to-the-top infected with the following two ideas: #1- "If you ain't cop, you ain't poo poo." #2- "HOOOO RAAAAH!" >cocks M4< I'm genuinely scared of them and wouldn't even ask one for help if I needed it unless it was a literal life and death situation. That's a hell of a thing to say about members of an organization whose creed is "To Protect and Serve," but I'm always 100% aware they can beat your rear end or straight-up kill you for no reason whatsoever and in 99.99% of all cases they'll face absolutely no repercussions whatsoever outside of some rubber-stamp review board or a "trial" with a completely foregone conclusion that leads to a "bad boy" letter and a week or two of desk work before being rearmed and sent back out to A good start would be to wire every single cop in the loving country with a camera and mic that records constantly and require all tape to be reviewed at regular intervals by groups of citizens completely unconnected with law enforcement. At the end of the review said group would vote on whether that officer is worthy of their badge and gun. There is currently a complete and total disconnect between the police and the people being policed and frankly that's a terrible, and terribly dangerous, state of affairs.
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Jun 29, 2014 07:37
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