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Maybe there'll be a surprise quick kick on standing or something similarly meaningless!
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Jun 30, 2014 13:27
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Discendo Vox posted:The majority opinion and its stated reasoning are binding. The others are unimportant with the exception of a set of potential future outcomes that are unlikely under these circumstances. Looking up the buffers around polling places they are typically between 25 and 50 feet. This is not, I can't help but note, to far away for consensual communication. It is to far away for effective interpersonal threatening and intimidation. Which are not protected speech. You keep trying to ignore this or imply that the Supreme Court hasn't said clearly in this and other opinions that free speech doesn't cover that behavior. But the very link you provided going over the majority opinion flat out said that your 1A rights don't let you do the stuff clinic protestors do and that the justices main request is that MA should try a smaller area first then increase it if that doesn't work. You literally posted a link that said the majority would be cool with the 35 foot buffer if there was better documentation showing that a smaller buffer had been tried but had failed to protect staff and patients adequately. This contradicts your assertions that buffers are flatly unconstitutional and prior restraint is never ever acceptable to the court. The link you provided also speculates that the liberal justices probably think its bullshit but supported Roberts because he would go full crazy otherwise. Now 1A legislation gets tricky because while threats and intimidation aren't protected speech regardless of their political content courts have differentiated between "hyperbole" and "true threats". This is like trying to legally define porn in that we can't describe it but we know it when we see it. And it allows justices a lot of leeway since they can deem this to be a true threat and thus illegal and that to be hyperbole and thus allowed under 1A. Well they have leeway right up until someone actually gets hurt at which point the speech retroactively becomes a true threat regardless of its prior designation and thus loses constitutional protection. At which point Scalia cries crocodile tears about how sad it is that doctor was murdered and has no replacement. Question: how many medical workers have been killed or assaulted by no-choice activists? I can think of three murders off the top of my head besides Tiller. And I haven't even touched google yet. What happens when we have a shortage of reproductive health workers and/or access to them? Hint: in countries without modern medicine up to 1 in 15 women die from reproductive related causes. Well baby visits and prenatal care are important and the intense harassment visibly pregnant low income women get for going to PP is an obstacle to getting adequate medical care. Which is probably part of why, in your own link, the liberal justices + Roberts noted that ensuring safe access to these facilities is a public safety issue compelling enough to override 1A protests. The only quibble was how much buffer is needed, not whether or not buffers are appropriate in this case. You keep trying to extract this to a general case while stripping it of pertinent facts like that we are talking about medical facilities specifically, the long history of criminality (true threats) on the part of protestors, or that the protestors goal isn't to speak to the public at large but to coerce individuals. When they want to speak to the public at large they seek out crowds or legislators.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:03
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Ugh the waiting is the worst part. Besides for the completely asinine rulings of course.
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Jun 30, 2014 14:59
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Shifty Pony posted:Ugh the waiting is the worst part. SCOTUSBlog says there's 3 boxes of opinions. Since I think we only have 2 cases today we either have a lot of dissents, or some really long opinions.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:00
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Alito for both...
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Allaniis posted:Alito for both... Did anybody guess that? I don't recall Alito being considered a Hobby Lobby author by anyone.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Alito wrote both. Start drinking everyone.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Allaniis posted:Alito for both... Death is certain
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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I just made the  face.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:02
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Oh no... Both decisions are Alito decisions 
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Jun 30, 2014 15:03
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:/ They did not overturn Abood.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:03
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Haven't first amendment claims by government employees been pretty much universally shot down on the grounds that it doesn't apply to government employees acting on their official duties? And that's with claims much more directly applicable than "I don't want to join a union."
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Jun 30, 2014 15:04
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"This is a substantial obstacle to expanding public employee unions, but it does not gut them." "The Court does not overrule Abood. That opinion has questionable foundations, so we reverse to extend Abood to the situation here." From SCOTUSBlog
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Jun 30, 2014 15:04
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Harris is 5-4
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Jun 30, 2014 15:04
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....hooray?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:04
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Who placed bets on 5-4?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:05
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ComradeCosmobot posted:Who placed bets on 5-4?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:05
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"The Court recognizes a category of "partial public employees" that cannot be required to contribute union bargaining fees." So it's not as bad as it could've been.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:05
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It does not apply to full public employees. It could have been much worse.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:05
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axeil posted:"This is a substantial obstacle to expanding public employee unions, but it does not gut them." The second quote makes it sound like Alito is basically asking for a case he can actually overturn Abood with. 
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Jun 30, 2014 15:06
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Welp, probably have to wait another 2-3 years for the next case that challenges Abood directly.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:06
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So since Alito is writing Hobby Lobby, the question now is just how many corporations have rights under RFRA: does just Hobby Lobby, or does Wal-Mart as well?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:07
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ComradeCosmobot posted:The second quote makes it sound like Alito is basically asking for a case he can actually overturn Abood with. We can only hope.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:07
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evilweasel posted:So since Alito is writing Hobby Lobby, the question now is just how many corporations have rights under RFRA: does just Hobby Lobby, or does Wal-Mart as well? All corporations required to register a religion.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:07
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Green Crayons posted:lololol
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Jun 30, 2014 15:09
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axeil posted:All corporations required to register a religion. Oh you dont need to require it, they will all chose the religion that saves the most money. Going to start the cult of employee abuse
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Jun 30, 2014 15:09
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axeil posted:All corporations required to register a religion. SEC filings will be replaced by private confessions to the Pastor at the Church of Reagan.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:09
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evilweasel posted:So since Alito is writing Hobby Lobby, the question now is just how many corporations have rights under RFRA: does just Hobby Lobby, or does Wal-Mart as well? Sincerely held is likely to still be a thing though. Maybe will see a new line of jurisprudence on that front.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:10
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Allaniis posted:Alito hasn't written anything in a while, so scotusblog said it was pretty good possibility he would get one of these two. Surprising it was both. It is very surprising that Roberts didn't take one of them. I'm sort of wondering if that means something strange is going to happen in the Hobby Lobby case. Course, there's nothing good that could happen with Alito writing it so that's probably just me trying to hold onto hope.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:10
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evilweasel posted:It is very surprising that Roberts didn't take one of them. I'm sort of wondering if that means something strange is going to happen in the Hobby Lobby case.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:11
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axeil posted:All corporations required to register a religion. All persons required to register a religion. Also, the list of permitted religions is this list of various Christian denominations:
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Jun 30, 2014 15:11
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evilweasel posted:It is very surprising that Roberts didn't take one of them. I'm sort of wondering if that means something strange is going to happen in the Hobby Lobby case. Every corporation in America being given "religious rights" would be pretty strange!
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Jun 30, 2014 15:12
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Ghost of Reagan Past posted:It'll probably be really bad. "Additionally, the court finds that Jews are not eligible for coverage under the ACA". e: cunning edit.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:12
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"How shocked would you be, on a scale of 1 to Andy-Kaufman-Is-Alive, if Justice Alito writes an opinion where Hobby Lobby loses?" SCOTUSBlog commenters trying to keep things light.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:12
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3 boxes for opinions + 2 opinions + First opinion is only 70 pages (opinion + dissent) = crazy Hobby Lobby shenanigans? edit: Lyle: "Harris occupied only the first box."
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Jun 30, 2014 15:14
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Gregor Samsa posted:"Additionally, the court finds that Jews are not eligible for coverage under the ACA". Well I know 3 Justices that wouldn't be happy with that.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:15
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If businesses get religious exemptions to public laws it is time for a constitutional convention.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:15
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Green Crayons posted:3 boxes for opinions + 2 opinions + First opinion is only 70 pages (opinion + dissent) = crazy Hobby Lobby shenanigans?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:15
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I am really hoping that Alito writes some out-of-left-field opinion shooting down Hobby Lobby for the purposes of keeping the corporate veil as strong as possible.
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Jun 30, 2014 15:15
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Green Crayons posted:3 boxes for opinions + 2 opinions + First opinion is only 70 pages (opinion + dissent) = crazy Hobby Lobby shenanigans?
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Jun 30, 2014 15:15
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