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Since B is in no way lacking for support, I will vote A for the Holy Seljuk Caliphate/pity vote.
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Jul 2, 2014 20:45
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I'd like a Seljuk HRE too, so A.
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Jul 2, 2014 21:06
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B
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Jul 2, 2014 21:30
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B.
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Jul 2, 2014 21:39
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A
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Jul 3, 2014 00:48
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A!
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Jul 3, 2014 02:21
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I definitely prefer A! Both because I like the sound of it and because I really want holy roman arabia.
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Jul 3, 2014 07:47
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I want an Islamic HRE more than I want an Indian HRE. So A.
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Jul 3, 2014 07:50
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I like the idea of B but I want the Seljuk HRE. Is it possible to do a version of B that doesn't have the HRE mechanics? I mean, the Holy Roman Empire wasn't necessarily a key factor in the development of the Renaissance in Italy. There could easily be an India divided into tons of tiny states that just lack an overarching emperor who theoretically rules all of them, leaving the actual HRE mechanic open for the Seljuks and the Caliphate.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:00
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vyelkin posted:I like the idea of B but I want the Seljuk HRE. Is it possible to do a version of B that doesn't have the HRE mechanics? I mean, the Holy Roman Empire wasn't necessarily a key factor in the development of the Renaissance in Italy. There could easily be an India divided into tons of tiny states that just lack an overarching emperor who theoretically rules all of them, leaving the actual HRE mechanic open for the Seljuks and the Caliphate. I believe the flaw is that without the HRE mechanics, India may just get gobbled up if it's so split up... like by China. Or what Persia is called.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:02
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Voting B
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Jul 3, 2014 10:46
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I vote for the ballin' option
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Jul 3, 2014 11:52
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back that rear end up.
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Jul 3, 2014 14:50
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Let it B. Also I don't want you to suffer having to mod the HRE.
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Jul 3, 2014 15:14
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Well at least we won't have any trouble It is also pretty funny that it looks like our Greek Empire's greatest rival will probably end up being an empire largely based in Persia. Ethiser fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 16:22
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ZearothK posted:Let it B. Well, I'm going to have to mod it in somewhere. The Middle Eastern version of it would have considerably fewer moving parts, though. Mod progress: Africa almost done-- all the tags are in, everyone has a flag, and the map is done, I just need to finish up writing national ideas for some of the more important tags (Ashanti is done, Mossi, Mbunda, Benin, etc. still need them, and I'm probably going to redo Ghana's since right now they just have Songhai's, which is maybe appropriate for Mali culture Sunni West African land power, but feels lazy for such an important country.) Preliminary work on the New World (making flags, coming up with tags, etc.) is almost done, and implementing it shouldn't be too much trouble beyond a bit of futzing around with tech groups. And, obviously, India isn't done yet.  After that's done, all that's left to do is events and testing. Oh god, events. EDIT: Ethiser posted:Well at least we won't have any trouble To be fair, our greatest rival will almost certainly be Empress Theonora fucked around with this message at 16:37 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 16:35
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A
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Jul 3, 2014 18:53
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B Speaking of which, are you going to post the completed mod in this thread? It's certainly interesting and different enough from vanilla EU4 and Gooniversalis.
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Jul 3, 2014 21:43
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I'm going to vote A because I have a sneaking suspicion that a divided India would be unable to blob early enough to prevent some really big land grabs by the European nations. Also I do like the idea of a Holy Persian Caliphate.
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Jul 4, 2014 02:30
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The Best one.
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Jul 4, 2014 04:19
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A]
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Jul 4, 2014 04:33
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You know, I want to ask: are we going to be doing this with Res Publica? About half our political parties pretty much demand Humanist ideas. Plus, they're pretty much required to have tolerance not be actively crippling versus conversion.
NewMars fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 21:55
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B
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Jul 4, 2014 23:06
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NewMars posted:You know, I want to ask: are we going to be doing this with Res Publica? About half our political parties pretty much demand Humanist ideas. Plus, they're pretty much required to have tolerance not be actively crippling versus conversion. Yeah-- the mod probably wasn't going to be ready by the time Res Publica came out anyway, and a lot of the features-- humanist ideas, accepted culture threshholds as national idea variables, moddable faction systems, etc.-- are basically made for this LP.
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Jul 4, 2014 23:34
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 A: 19 Rejected Fate YF-23 LJN92 RZApublican Rubix Squid Gyra_Solune Sky Shadowing Beerdeer Cestrian Soup du Jour GSD TinTower Aeromancia Claverjoe Duckbag JT Jag Zikan Clayren mcclay  B: 30 Dry Hump Semquais Luhood Caustic Soda nothing to seehere NewMars Blackunknown Lord Cyrahzax Freudian Ageofbob Technowolf WeaponGradeSadness sniper4625 Wentley Unwise_Cashew StrifeHira Alikchi Vagon catlord Hitlers Gay Secret Flesnolk shirunei AJ_Impy Jimmy4400nav Lynneth ThatBasqueGuy Danann ZearothK Ghetto Prince UrbicaMortis  Vote closed! I feel like the poor Seljuk/Saimid/Gauhar Ayin successors deserve some sort of mechanical consolation prize, but I'm not really sure what it should be. Maybe they're just doomed to be tasty snacks for Yilang and Da Qin. 
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Jul 6, 2014 08:33
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Rincewind posted:
(Also they should have a union tag just in case they manage to solidify their position into a single empire)
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Jul 6, 2014 09:07
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Possibly when a certain threshhold of them get eaten up comes they get a Victoria style Crown from the Gutter unification, and alternatively a manual unification option.
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Jul 6, 2014 15:45
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Perhaps give them a Shogunate style system where one is the leader and the rest are slowly annexed by said leader?
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Jul 6, 2014 16:13
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Blackunknown posted:Perhaps give them a Shogunate style system where one is the leader and the rest are slowly annexed by said leader? That could actually be a good idea, as it would allow them to compete amongst each other while maintaining a defensive alliance against outside aggressors. Very easy to mod too.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:19
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Blackunknown posted:Perhaps give them a Shogunate style system where one is the leader and the rest are slowly annexed by said leader? This, but with a "High Council" OPM as the nominal head, which safeguards their collective independence and has a minuscule chance of unifying all the members through clever diplomacy, but will probably get usurped half a dozen times as the members eat each other and jockey for position.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:37
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Can the unification tag still be the Caliphate? Or perhaps the Mashriq or something.
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Jul 6, 2014 16:59
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Seljuk Shogunate sounds fun to me. And yeah, a Caliphate or similar tag is too fun to pass up. (Was the Uighur rebel state still a caliphate? The Seljuk successors could have some sort of Caliphal Conflict with the Uighurs if they remain independent from the Ming, unless the two are conveniently different sorts of muslims.) GSD fucked around with this message at 20:57 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 20:54
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MOD PREVIEW: Where are they now? Crete remains part of the Roman Empire. While its feudal rulers were once known for possessing political deviousness equal to that of the ancient Cretan Republic, the theme of Crete has long since been folded into other more prestigious titles. It is currently just one territory among the many claimed by the powerful Doux of Samos.  Azerbaijan has been a possession of a succession of empires for centuries-- the Seljuks, Baytasids, and the other Turkish imperial regimes, followed by the Levantine Arabs. It was part of the vast swaths of territory seized from the Gauhar Ayin Sultanate by the Ming Frontier Army. The Azeris declined to join the Turks, Arabs, and anti-Frontier Chinese in the Eastern theater of Second War of the Hungarian League or the subsequent smaller rebellions in the Middle East, and Azerbaijan was duly incorporated into Yilang when the Frontier Army was demobilized. If the Azeris must accede to foreign rule, they apparently prefer the wealth, prestige, and advanced technology of the Hui to the constant dynastic struggles and feudal intrigue of the Turks and Arabs. Tabriz is now one of the most important urban centers of Yilang outside of the Persian core of their empire.  Against all odds, a small vestige of the Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, as established by St. Valeria so long ago, persists as an independent theocratic state. Wedged in between Da Qin and various rebel Chinese states, however, its prospects of survival look gloomy, even with Valerian Order nearby. However, while Orthodox Jerusalem endures, a steady stream of pilgrims continues to visit it before it's snuffed out. Its reliquaries are said to contain some really amazing skulls.  Swabia, which, had things gone a little differently, might have been known as the traditional homeland of the House of Hohenzollern, is part of the messy patchwork of small states left in the wake of the Ming retreat from southern Germany and the end of Holy Roman imperial authority in the region. Fortunately for the Swabians, they are insulated from Ao Di Li and the other Hui-German princely states by a ring of Orthodox nations. A theocratic metropolis, Swabia is known for producing some of the most finely-wrought icons in all of Western Europe, and Swabian icons of King Greger Dunin of Hungary-- Orthodoxy's second Living Saint-- stare down at parishioners in many German and French churches.  Bavaria is another German metropolis— but a much more important one than Swabia. Their situation is much less secure, however, as they share a lengthy border with Ao Di Li-- the Hui state of Austria. Ao Di Li and the other Hui states in southern Germany share common bonds with the Germans over their mutual liberation from the Ming Frontier Army-- but it's unknown how long these good feelings can prevent Ao Di Li from taking one look at their fancy guns, one look at Bavaria ripe for the plucking, and decide that their borders could really stand to be a bit prettier.  The Burgundians, far from their ancestral and rightful homeland in Bornholm, have come to rule a tidy, orderly domain in Switzerland.  Denmark has greatly benefitted from both the decline of the Holy Roman Empire and the total destruction of the kingdom of Sweden, seizing many of the wealthiest provinces of the dissolved kingdom for itself. Once a mere subject kingdom of Norway, it has eclipsed its neighbor as the premier power of Scandinavia. Catholic Norway, however, has no intention of going quietly into the night... Also, to Denmark's infinite frustration, the island of Fyn remains in the hands of the Croatian kingdom-in-exile.  In the 1200s, a confederation of Lübeck guilds and merchants known as the Hanseatic League briefly emerged. Unfortunately, their enterprise proved to be an ephemeral one-- between the declining economy and general malaise of the Holy Roman Empire in the years between its apex under Henry IV and its near total collapse under Gregory de Conteville and the near-total monopoly on North Sea trade held by the Republic of Iceland, the Hansa were never able to gain a commercial foothold and within decades the league had folded. Now, its territories are split between the Habsburgs' rump Holy Roman Empire, Denmark, and Pomerania, with the latter holding Lübeck itself.  Until its destruction at the hands of King Gregory de Conteville, Anglo-Norman England tended to ignore the rest of the British Isles, leaving Ireland at the tender mercies of Scotland. It was reduced to little more than a test-bed for Scottish colonialism and imperialism the Catholic Kyles of Scotland hope to put into practice elsewhere, and, occasionally, as a staging ground for rival Kyle claimants to the Scottish throne to launch dynastic struggles from. Many Irish have sought to escape their Scottish overlords by joining the Church Militant. Scotland, dependent on the Papal State and the deep coffers of Orbetello, has no choice but to let them go.  Sicily continues to prosper. The di Chios monarchs of the southern Italian Kingdom-- extremely distant descendants of the de Hautevilles-- have long been among the most loyal vassals of Rome and ardent supporters of the Yaroslavovich emperors and empresses, and the Senate has seen fit to reward them for their service with a degree of autonomy comparable to that enjoyed by the empire's merchant Republics and outlying exarchates— no small thing in an era of imperial governance defined by the marginalization of the landed nobility in favor of the Senate and the centralized state. In spite of their semi-autonomy, the di Chios remain fanatically loyal to Empress Basillike and her son, and have pledged to do everything they can to support Rome.  Ghana-- far removed from its Sahelian past and large, prosperous, peaceful, and devoutly Sunni-- has reigned in splendid isolation for centuries, only recently bothering to annex a handful of provinces from their pagan neighbors to gain access to the sea. The world is changing, though-- only time will tell if they will remain a beacon of stability, or if the chaos and mad dreams of continental empires that has gripped so much of the rest of the world will come to affect the sultans of Ghana.  Estonia, a small Orthodox kingdom on the Baltic, somehow managed to avoid being annexed by Lithuania in the latter nation's centuries of pagan atavism, raids, and Baltic expansionism, successfully running out the clock on Lithuania finally joining Christendom in the late middle ages. They have the potential to seize territory from the remaining pagans of Finland— if Kiev, Third Rome elects not to squash them like a bug.  "Serbia" is the titular kingdom used by those Croatians who are neither in the Roman vassal Republic of Ragusa nor amongst the Croatian court in exile in Fyn, which maintains its grip on the title to the Kingdom of Croatia. It is the product of centuries of chaos and confusion as Croatia was slowly eaten from within by dynastic struggles and from without by Roman, Bulgarian, and Hungarian expansionism.  "Brazil?" 
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Jul 8, 2014 02:57
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Liking what I see so far. Haha the irony of that "Serbia."
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Jul 8, 2014 03:45
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Also general mod progress: the map is totally, 100% done!! Well, I might shuffle a few around for balance purposes after the mod is ready for testing, but that won't happen until I'm done with everything else. India was way faster to set up than I thought it would be, with the most time consuming thing being trying to track down what was causing a crash (it turned out that I had HLR pointing to both IndianEmpire.txt and HolyRomanEmpire.txt in my countries directory-- and the HRM tag for the Hapsburg Northern Germany HRE I need a flag for the Kerala League, and I still have to give a bunch of countries ideas, but mostly all that's left to do is write events. Which. Might take a while. Since I know basically nothing about writing events, and I need to replace the entire Reformation event chain (among other things.)
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Jul 8, 2014 03:55
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Great work, Rincewind, I'm really looking forward to this! A preview of my own: Norman dogs! The blood of the brigand Guiscard remains? Enshrined by Yaroslavovich authority? An outrage! On the other hand, Jerusalem stands! I demand that the Empress immediately offer it vassalization, or at the very least an alliance! It cannot be allowed to fall into the hands of infidels or heathens! Never again! Lord Cyrahzax fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 03:56
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Thanks to all of our vassals, we start our game at the diplomatic relation limit, which will make the first decade or so... highly entertaining. (For people new to EU4-- you can go over the limit, but you take a penalty in diplo points)
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Jul 8, 2014 03:59
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I'm bad at graphic design, so I won't make a Kerala League flag myself, but for people who are good at it, flags from that part of India are very fond of both conch shells and elephants. For example, here are the coat of arms of the Kingdom of Kochi, the 18th-century Kingdom of Travancore, and the modern state of Kerala side-by-side, as they're all very similar:   (The English and Hindi text in the first two being later additions, replacing the original Malayalam, still visible in the last one). So this "two elepants flanking a conch shell" thing has been real popular for the last eight or nine hundred years. Other than that, the colors pink, yellow, and blue are pretty strongly associated with Kochi, as you can see from its coat of arms and its flag. I don't know if you want to just straight-up use one of these or if someone can come up with something cool making use of these emblems or if someone has their own, totally unique idea, but I figured this might be a good starting point for someone. Punished Chuck fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 04:33
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So how are the Ming Frontier successor states with respect to religion? Are all the non Sunni states going to have pretty much instant religious revolts that flip them to the native religions since most of them will have around 0% religious unity.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:10
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Most of the larger Ming successor states (Suo Ma Li, Da Qin, Yi Lang, the revolter states in the Middle east, etc.) were already mostly Sunni. Even Lai Ang had a ton of Sunni provinces, since a lot of it was carved out of Andalusia and Mauritania, and León proper had lost a lot territory to Sunni states in its last days of independence. The main exceptions are the minor revolters in Germany. I've been fairly generous in flipping their provinces to Sunni, since they have enough problems being mostly very small nations surrounded by hostile Orthodox powers. Ao Di Li has a mix of Sunni and Orthodox provinces.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:19
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