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Sire Oblivion posted:Isn't Primus Cybertron? So doesn't he basically exist in every Transformers universe? Or does he not appear in some of the series and Cybertron is just a planet and nothing more? I'd love for the films to conclude with Unicron and Primus fighting across galaxies, loving poo poo up in different nebulae and destroying planets and star systems due to the collateral damage they cause. Then have Optimus fight to the death on the surface of both of them. Man that'd be awesome. It's kind of messy, but according to Hasbro certain characters are multiversal singularities who exist across all Transformers continuities as individual beings. In other words, they are literally the same person appearing in multiple universes, not different interpretations of character archetypes like Optimus or Megatron. Primus and Unicron are the two most notable, but also the original 13 Transformers (including The Fallen - Hasbro had to come up with a crazy explanation about how it's the same guy in the Dreamwave G1 comics and the RotF movie despite their completely different origins and motivations being due to the quantum nature of multiversal singularities allowing them to interact with timelines in different ways, etc.), probably Maccadam, etc. Logically speaking, Primus should be Cybertron across all continuities but some writers, like the IDW team and the Animated staff, go out of their way to ignore this because it conflicts with the stories that they want to tell. In Japanese G1 continuity Primus = the Oracle (the supercomputer from Beast Machines) = the helper of Primacron, the monkey alien who built Unicron (who in the cartoon G1 universe was never depicted as a god, although later multiversal continuity states that he must be so and maybe he tricked Primacron into building him a body or something). The Aligned continuity is the only franchise explicitly outside of the multiverse but that's also sort of been torpedoed recently with the Rise of the Dark Spark game, which is a crossover between Aligned and the movies.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:10
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CJSwiss posted:The Aligned continuity is the only franchise explicitly outside of the multiverse but that's also sort of been torpedoed recently with the Rise of the Dark Spark game, which is a crossover between Aligned and the movies.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:13
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Arquinsiel posted:Not entirely. Cybertron is clearly sentient in WFC (because it talks to the player) and Unicron is, as mentioned, Earth. Well yeah, the Aligned continuity does have Primus and Unicron, but they aren't the SAME Primus and Unicron as literally every other Primus and Unicron. Relatedly, the Aligned version of The Thirteen Original Transformers doesn't line up with the revealed members of the Thirteen in the greater Multiverse (i.e. Logos Prime).
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Jul 3, 2014 06:19
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Arquinsiel posted:Not entirely. Cybertron is clearly sentient in WFC (because it talks to the player) and Unicron is, as mentioned, Earth. Oh I know, but Hasbro's official statement regarding Aligned when they unveiled it was that it was outside of the multiversal canon and ("Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity.") I think the most obvious example of this is how Optimus Prime is treated as a member of the 13 in Aligned continuity, which makes absolutely no sense outside of the TF: Prime production bible and is basically impossible with every other TF franchise. Primus being Cybertron in WFC in this case does not mean "This is the same guy as the Energon cartoon and the Marvel UK G1 comics", just that they liked that archetype and decided to continue it. Aligned is supposed to be a total reboot of Transformers without any of the expanded universe continuity junk. But they've gone and messed around with that. quote:Well yeah, the Aligned continuity does have Primus and Unicron, but they aren't the SAME Primus and Unicron as literally every other Primus and Unicron. Relatedly, the Aligned version of The Thirteen Original Transformers doesn't line up with the revealed members of the Thirteen in the greater Multiverse (i.e. Logos Prime). CJSwiss fucked around with this message at 06:41 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 06:20
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CJSwiss posted:Oh I know, but Hasbro's official statement regarding Aligned when they unveiled it was that it was outside of the multiversal canon and ("Anything you know from past generations of the brand may or may not be factual in the new continuity.") I think the most obvious example of this is how Optimus Prime is treated as a member of the 13 in Aligned continuity, which makes absolutely no sense outside of the TF: Prime production bible and is basically impossible with every other TF franchise. Primus being Cybertron in WFC in this case does not mean "This is the same guy as the Energon cartoon and the Marvel UK G1 comics", just that they liked that archetype and decided to continue it. Aligned is supposed to be a total reboot of Transformers without any of the expanded universe continuity junk. But they've gone and torpedoed though. Fun thing about Optimus Prime being one of The Thirteen: It's a plot point ripped off from two 1990s Doctor Who tie-in novels of debatable canonicity, in which The Doctor is said to be the reincarnation of "The Other", a mysterious figure in Time Lord history who threw himself into the "genetic Looms" that Time Lords (according to those two books and basically nothing else) use in lieu of sexual reproduction - basically, the Allspark. Funny, that.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:23
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DoctorWhat posted:Fun thing about Optimus Prime being one of the Thirteen: Well you know, Doctor Who and Transformers are canonically tied together because of Death's Head... quote:Optimus is totally going to come back as Star Saber in Transformers 5. He even has the whole 'knight' theme going on.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:26
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CJSwiss posted:Well you know, Doctor Who and Transformers are canonically tied together because of Death's Head... It just goes to show, ~everything comes down to (do do, do do, do do, do do) everything comes down to - LOOMS!
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Jul 3, 2014 06:27
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DoctorWhat posted:Well yeah, the Aligned continuity does have Primus and Unicron, but they aren't the SAME Primus and Unicron as literally every other Primus and Unicron. Relatedly, the Aligned version of The Thirteen Original Transformers doesn't line up with the revealed members of the Thirteen in the greater Multiverse (i.e. Logos Prime). CJSwiss posted:Well you know, Doctor Who and Transformers are canonically tied together because of Death's Head... 
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Jul 3, 2014 06:29
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Arquinsiel posted:Yeah but the thing about multiversal roles is that when you kill one Unicron you kill them all. It's just easiest to accept that "this universe is more different" rather than try reconcile 30 years of "gently caress it, sell more toys" continuity written across three continents in two languages. I don't know, it seems easier to me to just go along with the idea that Aligned isn't part of the multiverse than to pretend that it is when the writers didn't intend it to be. But like I said, Rise of the Dark Spark messed that all up. I guess it's workable if for no other reason than that (Tonka's) Go-Bots are canonically Transformers and Gobotron is canonically a version of Primus and that show is about as far from Transformers continuity as possible.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:34
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Arquinsiel posted:Not entirely. Cybertron is clearly sentient in WFC (because it talks to the player) and Unicron is, as mentioned, Earth. Really? I love that game but I don't remember Cybertron talking to you. Though it's been a while. And this Primus, Unicron and multi-verse character spanning is confusing as poo poo.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:36
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I've not seen any actual plot details for Dark Spark ANYWHERE on the internet, for some bizarre reason, so until I do I can't really pontificate on its implications for multiversal singularity theory.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:37
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Sire Oblivion posted:Really? I love that game but I don't remember Cybertron talking to you. Though it's been a while. This is Hasbro's official statement on multiversal singularities (specifically relating to The Fallen): The complex nature of the multiverse demands much from singular creatures like the Fallen, Primus, Unicron, the 13, etc. These beings are of a fundamentally different nature from regular individuals, who are repeated endlessly throughout the infinite variation of creation. They must be designed or evolved to deal with certain situations that would drive lesser beings mad. First of all, time flows differently from dimension to dimension. By necessity, this makes it possible for creatures like the Fallen to appear to exist in two places at the same time. Second, whole new universes are spawned every moment by the resolution of quantum uncertainty. Most of these universes are dead ends that exist for only a few seconds or minutes at most, and encompass only a few critical moments. Therefore, at certain critical junctures, the Fallen becomes a quantum event, experiencing two or more possible outcomes at once, until one of those outcomes proves to be a dead end and collapses. The Fallen then reverts back to the "real" universe. Every story has dozens or hundreds of endings we never see. But the Fallen sees them. One of the side effects of the Fallen's quantum nature is that his appearance changes slightly from dimension to dimension, based on the expectations of others, and the unique history he has (or has not) established in a particular dimension. He is also bound by the "rules" (gravity, magnetism, etc.) of any dimension in which appears – many of which rules he may have actually helped shape when the multiverse was young. So if time flows backwards in a certain dimension, he is bound to live and experience – forgetting as he goes along – everything backwards. Smart and savvy dimensional travelers spend time in reverse timescale dimensions, slow-time dimensions, or dimensions in which time does not move at all. This ensures that even if they are "killed," they continue to exist. As you can see, the idea of sequential experience as you and I understand it is pretty meaningless to guys like the Fallen. He does experience all these things, but his mind operates on a higher order so all of this stuff totally makes sense to him.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:38
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Clearly, the Fallen is Michael Bay's target audience.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:39
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Transformers canon is completely ridiculous.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:40
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YOU'RE completely ridiculous!
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Jul 3, 2014 06:41
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Milky Moor posted:Transformers canon is completely ridiculous. Have you heard of Kiss Players? 
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Jul 3, 2014 06:43
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I really wish I had the Psyduck gif with the Metal Slug explosion because god drat.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:43
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I think while Prime had tendencies, it isn't until he dies and is resurrected by Sam that he becomes a murderous killing machine with a child's concept of justice. In the first he seemed somewhat ok. In the second after merging with matrix Sam, who also died and came back, does it go hard core childish and villainous. Basically Sam made Optimus that way just as Sam turned Megaton feminine by using the the cube on him and making him incompetant or maybe impotent. Prime became a child's version of a car to on hero all masculine and hard and right and wrong and the villain all feminine. In the first Prime was more normal and Megaton was hard core asskicker. With any luck the creators can flip the evil switch to good on Prime.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:44
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CJSwiss posted:Have you heard of Kiss Players? I wish I hadn't. I agree with Michael Bay himself: "The Fallen is kind of a poo poo character".
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Jul 3, 2014 06:44
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Maybe Prime is just angry all the time because his personality is being affected by the Unicron Singularity. 
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Jul 3, 2014 06:45
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CJSwiss posted:Have you heard of Kiss Players? NO! We do NOT TALK ABOUT KISS PLAYERS IN THIS FANDOM WE DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE IT
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Jul 3, 2014 06:45
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DoctorWhat posted:NO! TF5 will be all about Galvatron searching for Brave Maximus after he crashlands on ancient Earth with a group of pop stars.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:47
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I would like a pop Barbie team up with the Transformers. Maybe the Tour Bus can be the new hero.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:48
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CJSwiss posted:TF5 will be all about Galvatron searching for Brave Maximus after he crashlands on ancient Earth with a group of pop stars. Kiss Players Position is the most retardedly fan-wanky thing in the world. It's so fanwanky that it surpasses the entirety of TFWiki, despite TFWiki cataloguing all the events of Kiss Players Position. Kiss Players Position is the Unicron Singularity.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:48
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Gatts posted:I would like a pop Barbie team up with the Transformers. Maybe the Tour Bus can be the new hero. Finally Bendy Bus Prime will have his time in the spotlight!  edit: His sidekick can be Signal Lancer.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:51
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CJSwiss posted:Finally Bendy Bus Prime will have his time in the spotlight! Hahaha. I hope his special attack is moving around like a slinky. And he can double as an acordian. There are a lot of tactical rolls the TF s do. It is comical. Like making fun of or viewing action from a child's pov.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:54
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Gatts posted:I think while Prime had tendencies, it isn't until he dies and is resurrected by Sam that he becomes a murderous killing machine with a child's concept of justice. A few years ago someone presented a notion that maybe when he took on parts of a Decepticon in RotF, it was corrupting Optimus. Sort of doubtful the series could/would pull an arc where Prime becomes a full-on badguy to the point that we get a Superman 3 evil twin junkyard fight.
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Jul 3, 2014 06:55
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I kind of want some sort of final reveal that the Creators just issued a product recall on the Transformers, and Lockdown and Optimus are just blowing everything out of proportion. They just wanted to install a firmware update, and maybe fix the thing where they lock up in cold weather, but nooooo. Optimus goddamn Prime is going to bust in like a barbarian king and wreck up the place. Come to think of it, wasn't there that whole subplot where the Transformers will inevitably go extinct without the AllSpark or something? That sounds like the sort of thing a creator-race could help with. Like, they probably have an extra in the back of a cupboard somewhere.
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Jul 3, 2014 07:48
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Gatts posted:I think while Prime had tendencies, it isn't until he dies and is resurrected by Sam that he becomes a murderous killing machine with a child's concept of justice. But then, you have the opening scenes of Revenge - where he hunts down and kills this dude who calls him a tyrant to his face.
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Jul 3, 2014 08:13
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CJSwiss posted:Have you heard of Kiss Players? I just looked this up and what the gently caress. God drat it Japan.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:09
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a cock shaped fruit posted:Some people have expressed distress about Optimus reportedly being 'built' by the makers, but has anyone spared a thought to consider that maybe what they mean is that he was 'rebuilt'? Perhaps cribbing a little from other lore in the sense that before he was Optimus Prime he was Orion Pax, nerdy basic transformer and perhaps these 'Creators' gave him the opportunity to be rebuilt as a bigger, stronger bot in exchange for some kind of price and now they are collecting via Lockdown. I don't think this makes sense, since their existence is obviously news to him. Unless they wiped out his memory as well. Honestly, I have a feeling that whatever they go with is going to be freaking stupid: if Sentinel and the Fallen and Jetfire are all supposed to be older than Optimus (right?), did they somehow not notice this random new guy on the scene with no history? Or are we supposed to assume they knew about the Creators but just never mentioned it? But Jetfire makes some throwaway line about his parents in RotF. But if Transformers typically know their parents, then does Optimus have false memories of fake parents or somehow think he was born but not know anything about them? I could probably keep going down this hole, but expecting a sensible continuity from the Bayformers seems like a real mistake.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:24
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The Quintessons (Creators) are the perfect antagonists for Movie Prime, since they're literally made of faces.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:48
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Silhouette posted:The Quintessons (Creators) are the perfect antagonists for Movie Prime, since they're literally made of faces. snortpocket posted:Innocent! Sire Oblivion posted:Isn't Primus Cybertron? So doesn't he basically exist in every Transformers universe? Or does he not appear in some of the series and Cybertron is just a planet and nothing more? I'd love for the films to conclude with Uniceon and Primus fighting across galaxies, loving poo poo up in different nebulae and destroying planets and star systems due to the collateral damage they cause. Then have Optimus fight to the death on the surface of both of them. Man that'd be awesome. Sire Oblivion posted:Interesting, never thought of that. I wonder if the toy will brand him as an Autobot or Decepticon. The MSJ posted:In Transformers Prime, Unicron is Earth. CJSwiss posted:Well you know, Doctor Who and Transformers are canonically tied together because of Death's Head... Sounds like territory partially covered by Galvatron in this film but they could always revisit the idea, especially with Prime being elsewhere in space.
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Jul 3, 2014 10:41
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As someone who has a fairly good grasp of DC continuity all the way from pre-crisis to nu52, Transformers continuity seems rather impenetrable to me. Of course, I've spent far more time with the former subject. I saw that this is the first film to use digital IMAX 3D cameras. Does that come through at an IMAX showing? Is the aspect ratio for IMAX?
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Jul 3, 2014 11:05
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I only really became acquainted with Transformers again with the Bay films, although I had thought transforming robots were cool ever since I first saw G1 during my childhood. As far as Transformers continuity goes, it's been around for - what - thirty years or so? Not only that, but it seemed to go through a fairly interesting period in the eighties and nineties where there wasn't much, well, creative oversight and all sorts of ideas were thrown against the wall. For example, I've never liked Beast Wars and while a lot of people seem to, that whole thing is really something that wouldn't have come around in today's entertainment world. It, and a lot of things Transformers-related, strike me as ideas that were floated because Transformers was a brand everyone knew about but no one actually cared about. I know that around the early 2000s, there was a really obviously anime-inspired Transformers series, too and Transformers: Animated which was very, I don't know, Tartakovsky inspired? And all of it is really, really different. Style, characters, whatever. I'm not going to say I'm the biggest fan of the Aligned continuity so far. Much of it, particularly TF: Prime, strikes me as something that Hasbro isn't using to its fullest potential even if it feels like they've realised they need to make a coherent core for Transformers as a whole, taking the best concepts and ditching the worst. But Transformers has a long, long way to go before it's not, well, still kind of weird. For example, gender representation is still an issue with Arcee remaining, it seems, the only well-defined female character from that canon. In that sense, Aligned feels very safe. It's not taking the risks they should be. The Bay films have shown that people love robots that turn into cars and fight. But, in this age of great TV series, cinematic video games, books and whatever, Transformers sticks to comics, kid's TV and movies. And I don't know about you, but comics remain one of the hardest types of media to break into. For a franchise that lends itself incredibly well to video games, there's really not many. The Cybertron series was pretty fun but, jeez, I could give you half a dozen concepts that might be interesting. Has there been any game ever that has yet people, I don't know, create their own Transformer character? I get that Hasbro just wants to maximise profit, and that action figures, comics and such are probably the best and easiest way of doing it but, man oh man, the things you could do with this license and universe! As far as Imax cameras go, sleepingbuddha, the film definitely looks better in Imax than it does in a normal cinema. However, there seemed to be something weird where the aspect ratio was changing between scenes and even between shots - letterbox bars would appear and disappear. I don't know if this was just a thing from IMax films or a problem with my cinema but it was fairly distracting.
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Jul 3, 2014 11:49
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My google-fu is pretty strong, but I can't seem to find the patch they use for Cemetery Wind in the new movie anywhere. Has anyone seen it on the web at all? I'd like to get a patch for my molle bag.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:28
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A cousin once described a then-current season of a transformers show as actually pretty decent and funny. Would any of you happen to know which one it is / make a recommendation? The newer comics are pure gold.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:33
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Hbomberguy posted:A cousin once described a then-current season of a transformers show as actually pretty decent and funny. Would any of you happen to know which one it is / make a recommendation? The newer comics are pure gold. How long ago? Transformers Prime had its moments. I'd assume either Prime or Animated, just based on what I hear. Initially, TF: Prime was pretty decent with a light edge but quickly just became mediocre. It probably has the best interpretation of Shockwave a lot of the other characters yet, though.
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Jul 3, 2014 13:57
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The problem with Prime was how much of it was just treading water on a plot-development level. The final season had a decent pace owing to its reduced episode count, but seasons 1 and 2 had glacial pacing.
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Jul 3, 2014 14:01
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DoctorWhat posted:The problem with Prime was how much of it was just treading water on a plot-development level. The final season had a decent pace owing to its reduced episode count, but seasons 1 and 2 had glacial pacing. That and the interesting characters, like June, were just kind of side-lined. The show felt like it was marketed to a very wide age range leaving the show feeling rather awkward. It's like, sometimes you'd get episodes dealing with the Jack, June and Arcee family dynamic or Unicron mythology or death and torture and sometimes you'd get episodes that were so incredibly light-hearted and strange that it felt like a different show. Milkfred E. Moore fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 14:07
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