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I don't see what was so idiotic about Nightwing's death. Accidents happen, this was nuanced enough that Batman isn't entirely right to be such an rear end in a top hat about it, even though it's understandable that he feels the way he does. It would have been much dumber if Damian ripped out Nightwing's still-beating heart or something like the game implied.
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Jul 3, 2014 17:12
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It was poorly paced and badly drawn. The latter made it look goofy and the former wasn't doing it any favors. The concept is good, the whole arc is about super hero gently caress ups made worse by overly-emotional reactions compounded by the unaddressed personality flaws of the superheroes, but the execution made it look like a joke. They could have just had "Damian expects Dick to dodge, Dick expects Damian not to carry through on the hit," which would have been less "why has this never happened before?"
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Jul 3, 2014 17:32
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It goes completely against expectation. Which I suppose is the point. Sometimes people get hurt or die in the most stupid and pointless ways. And with a Superhero, the heroic death is so expected we usually use the random stupid death as one note comedy rather than drama.
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Jul 3, 2014 17:55
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I'm kind of reminded of the anime Nadesico, where a goofy side character who watches too much mecha anime and loves the idea of being a hero and almost heroically sacrifices himself gets shot randomly in a hallway by a defector trying to sneak out, then dies on the operating table. The fact that his death was so meaningless and unheroic was kind of the point, and I thought Nightwing's death was the same way.
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Jul 3, 2014 18:25
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Dick's death was melodramatically heroic, in that immediately after he fell on a rock everything loving stopped as Batman cradles the body and screams while walking outside. In the middle of a riot.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:06
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I will say that "grieving Batman" = "nuclear bomb waiting for you to push the button" in terms of getting your rear end kicked. It may have been extremely ham-fisted, but I don't think ANYBODY was dumb enough to interrupt him.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:08
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It was a cop-out so they could get away with Damien killing Dick without him actually meaning to since it would have been completely out of character.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:18
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Comfortador posted:It was a cop-out so they could get away with Damien killing Dick without him actually meaning to since it would have been completely out of character. Haha, ok. They're really worried about people staying in character in a comic where Superman beat Green Arrow to death.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:33
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Lurdiak posted:Haha, ok. They're really worried about people staying in character in a comic where Superman beat Green Arrow to death. Superman's on a downward spiral due to stuff that's happened, and the plot and circumstances around Green Arrow's death make sense as a logical progression of what's happening.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:38
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WickedHate posted:Superman's on a downward spiral due to stuff that's happened, and the plot and circumstances around Green Arrow's death make sense as a logical progression of what's happening. You could easily have had Damian slowly turning evil and killing Nightwing the same way. Choosing to do it the way they did wasn't a "cop-out".
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Jul 3, 2014 19:40
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Lurdiak posted:You could easily have had Damian slowly turning evil and killing Nightwing the same way. Choosing to do it the way they did wasn't a "cop-out". I don't think it was, though I do agree the art really caused the moment to suffer, but the situation around Superman killing Green Arrow is complex and isn't a sign they aren't concerned with staying in character.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:47
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Lurdiak posted:You could easily have had Damian slowly turning evil and killing Nightwing the same way. Choosing to do it the way they did wasn't a "cop-out". I'm not sure this is the place to have the discussion, but you didn't find it odd they used the most clichéd "accidental death" scene ever used? The ole "hit my head on the rock wrong" is completely a cop out. They could have chosen a million ways for Damien to accidentally kill Dick, yet they stick to the old boring cliché. It's ridiculous.
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Jul 3, 2014 19:56
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Comfortador posted:I'm not sure this is the place to have the discussion, but you didn't find it odd they used the most clichéd "accidental death" scene ever used? The ole "hit my head on the rock wrong" is completely a cop out. They could have chosen a million ways for Damien to accidentally kill Dick, yet they stick to the old boring cliché. It's ridiculous. Not that I didn't think it was a stupid death scene, but what other characters have died by hitting their head on a rock wrong so that their neck breaks?
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Jul 3, 2014 19:59
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LordSaturn posted:Not that I didn't think it was a stupid death scene, but what other characters have died by hitting their head on a rock wrong so that their neck breaks? The Million Dollar Baby.
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Jul 3, 2014 20:14
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LordSaturn posted:Not that I didn't think it was a stupid death scene, but what other characters have died by hitting their head on a rock wrong so that their neck breaks? I'm not talking comics, it's a scene overplayed in Movies, TV Shows. Someone hits their head on a rock (or a curb, or a jutting out piece of metal) and they die, or go into a coma, or poo poo just gets super-serious. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AccidentalMurder Comfortador fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jul 3, 2014 |
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Jul 3, 2014 21:11
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It's overplayed because it's the most common shocking death humans see. People fall down all the time and just pop back up with nothing but bruised pride to the point where it's all we expect to happen, so when we don't it reminds us of our frailty more then any other death. You can't write it off as "it'll never happen to me" as easily as other accidents because everybody falls down and you can do it anywhere there's gravity.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:06
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SirDan3k posted:It's overplayed because it's the most common shocking death humans see. People fall down all the time and just pop back up with nothing but bruised pride to the point where it's all we expect to happen, so when we don't it reminds us of our frailty more then any other death. You can't write it off as "it'll never happen to me" as easily as other accidents because everybody falls down and you can do it anywhere there's gravity. Thats a drat good reasoning for it's use. However in a medium where people die and come back to life monthly, it just seems too....weak.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:08
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Comfortador posted:Thats a drat good reasoning for it's use. However in a medium where people die and come back to life monthly, it just seems too....weak. If being erased from time several times over, sniped in the head, shot in the head at point blank range, beaten with a crowbar and then being at ground zero of a massive explosion, having all your energy drained until you turn to dust, being impaled via telefrag, and dying by cure to mutant AIDs and then being cremated can't keep someone from reviving, then everything is weak.
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Jul 3, 2014 23:23
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While the art direction was terrible, I thought the idea of it worked. It helps that there was a scene of Nightwing and Damian training earlier where Damian threw the stick and Dick caught it. He threw it hard enough that it would have caused severe damage had it hit, but he figured Dick would catch it. It's one of those things in comics that makes the guy seem so cool because he's right, like Frank Castle firing his gun at Spider-Man because he's sure he'll duck and the criminal behind him will get shot instead. Yeah, it's badass, but it's also a super lovely thing to do because what if you're in any way wrong? What are you going to do, blame the guy you just killed? It's all part of Damian's flaw as a character. He's too short-sighted and hardcore, which is exactly WHY he would want to kill criminals, back up Superman's fascism and even sell out his own family. He doesn't take anyone's advice ever until he personally sees why he's wrong. This is one of those moments. He got angry and in the heat of the moment, he threw a stick at Dick's head, Dick was in no way ready for it and bad things happened. On one hand, yeah, Dick has been able to stop it before under different circumstances and you can see that Damian was more into the gesture than actually trying to give him brain damage or worse, but on the other hand, what the hell did you expect, you little sociopath?! In the end, it was a far smaller scale version of what happened to Magog in the beginning of Kingdom Come. Anyway, while Damian's grown into being a bit of a psycho in the game, the way it worked out in the comic was the right way. Keep in mind, he's still hanging out with people considering themselves superheroes and he's taken Nightwing's mantle. He'd obviously feel some emotional reason to put on the tights and "killing him in cold blood" doesn't fit in with that.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:13
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I said it before but I do like that it contextualizes Batman as not being 100% right about everything, something the comic has done really well compared to the video game.
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Jul 4, 2014 01:22
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I liked the accidental death. I disliked all the heroes and criminals stopping and going "oh gosh, NOW it's serious. Better stop horsing around" and stand with their hands together. The art probably didn't help.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:17
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Look Batman's a guy who single handidly stops Prison Riot's on his good days. What do you think he's going to be like if you try attacking him after his son has just died? He's going to break your bones that much worse. I kind of dug it, as it reminds me of that scene from the Simpsons where Mike Tyson like, Drederick Taytum gets an entire prison riot to stop by telling everyone to be quiet, while he's sitting inside his prison cell eating a bowl full of spinach. I think that panel has convinced me to pick up Injustice Year 1 on digital the next time it comes up for sale. Maybe that will happen when Year 2 finishes.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:37
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The death was just kind of shocking because someone actually died. Even with the riot going on no one was expecting a "hero" to get killed. They always just beat the crap out of each other and then go reset back to start again. This time, a hero killed another one. Add to that hearing batman lose his poo poo, that'd make pretty much anyone stop what they are doing. Toss in the fact it was Damien's idea to out him as Bruce Wayne and get his home and entire life shot to poo poo, and you have kind of an inkling as to why bats ain't real happy with the lil squirt.
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Jul 4, 2014 14:02
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I recommend the series it's not as black and white at the beginning as most falling heroes stories are. Supes dosen't just flip a switch to evil and Batman isn't always shown as being perfect. I mean the riot where Dick dies comes off as being triggered by Batman being pissed Superman is in HIS city and interfering. Superman wasn't rounding them up for laser eye lobotomies he was just moving them out of Arkham because it had proven time and again to be as secure as a twist tie.
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Jul 4, 2014 14:27
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Yeah, even though we know from the game that this Superman does eventually end up as a heartless murderous dictator, the leadup to it has a lot more nuance and shades of grey to it, and neither side is acting like comically evil bastards. Unlike Civil War, where the pro-reg side turned into Hitler immediately, despite ostensibly still being considered "good guys".
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Jul 4, 2014 19:11
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For every good/interesting/slightly nuanced thing Injustice does in regards to Superman and co. going fascist it does like a dozen really hilariously dumb things.
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Jul 5, 2014 03:25
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So it's a very typical DC comic then?
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Jul 5, 2014 03:27
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Fabricated posted:For every good/interesting/slightly nuanced thing Injustice does in regards to Superman and co. going fascist it does like a dozen really hilariously dumb things. It really doesn't.
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Jul 5, 2014 04:32
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Injustice rules pretty hard, yeah
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Jul 6, 2014 04:09
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This reminded me of the Christmas Truce of 1914: 
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Jul 6, 2014 06:17
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I love Sam's "Boom".
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Jul 6, 2014 15:14
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Gaz-L posted:It's weird that the Injustice comic seems to take the most hamfisted parts of the game (the normal song-and-dance of Harley and the Joker) and pull something genuinely great out of them (having Ollie and Dinah be a big part of her redemption is inspired), and turn the things you'd think had potential into idiocy (Damien 'killing' Nightwing) There's something to be said for not having Editorial breathing down the creative team's neck all the time. It's just a tie-in for a video game. It's not even the first one they've done this decade since DC Universe Online was released pre-52, but when the writers care, it shows. \/\/\/I've never played the game, I probably never will since beat-em-ups were never my thing, although there was the slight chance I would if they released an Alfred Pennyworth DLC  . I was drawn to it as an interesting and extensive Elseworlds, and I'm okay with that.
Lars Blitzer fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Jul 6, 2014 |
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Jul 6, 2014 20:56
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It's just a shame that it has to end up in the Injustice game's story.
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Jul 6, 2014 21:00
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Lars Blitzer posted:I've never played the game, I probably never will since beat-em-ups were never my thing It's a good thing that's not what Injustice is!
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Jul 7, 2014 06:15
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Babe Magnet posted:It's a good thing that's not what Injustice is! I doubt they really will change their mind upon hearing it's technically a fighting game, not a beat 'em up.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:17
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Lars Blitzer posted:\/\/\/I've never played the game, I probably never will since beat-em-ups were never my thing, although there was the slight chance I would if they released an Alfred Pennyworth DLC You should at least watch the YouTube video of all the cutscenes. Then follow it with Batman's arcade mode ending, since that's the perfect epilogue to the story.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:21
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Gavok posted:You should at least watch the YouTube video of all the cutscenes. Then follow it with Batman's arcade mode ending, since that's the perfect epilogue to the story. Just so they can watch it if they want.
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Jul 7, 2014 07:07
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Babe Magnet posted:It's a good thing that's not what Injustice is! This one time a professional game reviewer called a Double Dragon game a "street fighter clone". People are never gonna stop doing that.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:09
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nm, derail
Snowglobe of Doom fucked around with this message at 13:31 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 13:29
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Ah, got it, thanks. Sorry I used the wrong genre. I wasn't sure if the term was "Beam 'em up" or "Fighting." All I knew was it was basically by the Mortal Kombat guys, so not my usual cup of tea.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:25
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