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Also lost and the damned are like the basic villains in pretty much any Chaos flavoured BL book. Not explicitly called it, but they're chaos IG.
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Jul 4, 2014 09:31
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Cataphract posted:we are chaaaaosssss chaaaaooss is sstrooong. Now I'm reminded how much the cultists sounded like a hyperventilating edgy twelve-year-old pretending to be evil. Chaos Marines and Raptors sounded so badass though 
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Jul 4, 2014 09:44
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I might be blind, but I'm flipping through the rulebook and I can't find where it says anything about Lords of War awarding extra VPs.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:14
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Sistergodiva posted:How horrible are X25 stealth suits for the Tau? I found 2 boxes unopened really cheap. I think they're pretty rad tbh. Sure they're waaaay over costed compared to crisis suits, but a 3+ cover save in open ground, improved to 2+ in any cover is pretty great. Having the option to infiltrate, deep strike or outflank as the mission demands is also pretty useful, and even a 3 man squad puts out a surprising amount of anti infantry fire. Don't forget JSJ too! I have one squad in my army and I basically use them to flush troops off of objectives and then camp some ruins while JSJing and generally being a nuisance.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:21
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Moola posted:I think they're pretty rad tbh. Nice, I bought two packs 3 since they where like 60% off. Do you have any tips for a hq? Currently I've only got fire warriors, not sure what kind of army I want but I really have no idea what kind of hq is viable.
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Jul 4, 2014 10:30
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Lord Hypnostache posted:I might be blind, but I'm flipping through the rulebook and I can't find where it says anything about Lords of War awarding extra VPs.
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Jul 4, 2014 11:24
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Cataphract posted:we are chaaaaosssss chaaaaooss is sstrooong. I don't care what anyone says, I loved commanding those guys (and watching them summarily get butchered). It's what cultists are for! Throwing their bodies at the enemies kill-cannons and clogging them up!
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Jul 4, 2014 12:55
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DO IT TO IT posted:At least if The Swarmlord was a Lord of War, they'd probably make him a little better. Right? Right? Ghaz didn't change, so I doubt the swarmlord would. Though loosing the forced rerolls of invul saves and the random points increase of the swarmlord sucked... It would probably suck now, but I still remember having a blast last edition by basing my list around the swarmlord, tons of poisoned hormies, and ravereners. Swarmlord is a buff machine and made hormies crazy good with rerolls to wound. On the plus side I'm sure all the chapter masters will be lords of war. Suck it marines!
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Jul 4, 2014 14:20
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Sistergodiva posted:Nice, I bought two packs 3 since they where like 60% off. Wow not sure where to start with HQ. there are dozens of articles covering the Tau HQ choices, almost all of them are not just viable but totally awesome. You can't go wrong with a Battlesuit Commander, he can cover pretty much any role you want; full support, full firepower, a mixture of shooting and support. You can stick him with other suits or drones and tool him up to support them appropriately. I like Darkstrider as a second HQ choice if you're running lots of fire warriors. Outflanking 10 or so Fire Warriors into rapid fire range and unloading like 20 str 5 shots into a dug in unit is pretty nasty. Then you unload some more over watch shots as they try to assault you and you laugh as your guys run away thanks to the running away from charges rule. Tau HQ owns. Just don't get the Ethereal with the spear, he's poo poo.
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Jul 4, 2014 15:04
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Moola posted:Wow not sure where to start with HQ. there are dozens of articles covering the Tau HQ choices, almost all of them are not just viable but totally awesome. Thanks! It kinda sucks that the one model I like the most is the worthless one  Is the Battlesuit Commander the one that looks like a XV8? He looks nice. Any idea where to expand my army? Since I only have Fire Warriors and soon 6 stealth dudes, what's most important? XV8s? Broadside? Kroots? So many units to choose from.
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Jul 4, 2014 16:19
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Moola posted:I think Necromunda vassal would be pretty tough, what with the focus on multi-level 3D terrain and all. I haven't played in a little while, but it's wicked fun. Anybody who has 10 guardsmen/Ork boyz/cultists/scout Marines can put together a reasonable gang. BuffaloChicken posted:Been gone for over a week... Tuxedo Jack posted:Crossposting because I'm feeling like a proud papa... Business Gorillas posted:Has anyone been I did get a chance to page through the new Ork codex and WAAAGH! Ghazgkull supplement when I was at my buddy's place yesterday though. The new layout is really straightforward, but it's kind of the end of an era so I'm not sure exactly how I feel about it. The supplement had some really cool stuff in it about "historical" formations and regiments and had fluff and artwork for them. The formations are also pretty good, like the one of 3 units of MANz that have better morale rules and WS5. IG are absolutely begging for formations like that (just from a military/historical wargaming perspective) and I'm excited to see more formations come out.
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Jul 4, 2014 16:57
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Formations own and I'm glad they're finally here.
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Jul 4, 2014 16:59
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DO IT TO IT posted:At least if The Swarmlord was a Lord of War, they'd probably make him a little better. Right? Right? Ha ha no, they'll take away a couple more abilities from him and increase his price again. God forbid they make him a Gargantuan Creature, he'd end up WS2 I1 A3 or somesuch for 550pts. Lord Hypnostache posted:I might be blind, but I'm flipping through the rulebook and I can't find where it says anything about Lords of War awarding extra VPs. This is where the debate comes in over whether Ghaz gives up extra VP- in the Escalation rules, it explains how LoW work and notes that there are a couple extra things going on if one is present, including the extra secondary objective that awards VP for damaging the LoW. One presumes that all of the LoW in that book still follow those rules, since 7E doesn't say otherwise; however, Ghaz, as the first LoW printed outside of the scope of Escalation (the FW LoW units all refer back to Esca for how to use them) can be argued to simply be a "normal" Lord of War choice that occupies the slot in the Combined Arms detachment but has no additional rules baggage attached. It's not really clear either way, hence the confusion. Sistergodiva posted:Thanks! It kinda sucks that the one model I like the most is the worthless one If you like Fire Warriors and are going to be starting off with some smaller games, a Cadre Fireblade is actually a pretty solid choice- he comes with a BS5 Markerlight, the Split Fire rule, and when sitting with a squad of FW in the backfield, he drastically increases their firepower. Ethereals are pretty good for "anchoring" a Tau force together and helping overcome their weak Leadership values; they are also excellent if you want to run a more mechanized force using transports and such. Commander suits are really, really flexible and have access to some of the best wargear in the game, so it's hard to go wrong with one of them in virtually any army you want. Shadowsun and Farsight are both essentially specialized variants of the Commander for particular types of armies. I'm not a big fan of the other three named characters (Darkstrider, Aun'va, Aun'shi) so I would say stay away from them unless you're completely in love with the models and/or fluff. Tau are blessed with one of the most flexible codices out there- there's hardly any "bad" units in it anywhere. Now, you can certainly build a bad army from it by combining them incorrectly, but if there's a unit you like, you're hard-pressed not to be able to include it in an army. Looking to expand your army, I would suggest trying to decide on a general theme or strategy before saying exactly what you should get next, since what will be most useful will depend a lot on what sort of force you are building. Do you want a mechanized list full of tough tanks that spill out Fire Warriors to smash the enemy at point-blank range? Devilfish and Hammerheads are your obvious next choices. Do you want a zippy, battlesuit-based force that can't be pinned down to one location? Crisis and Riptides will serve you well. Do you want a more traditional shooting army based around powerful weapons and units mutually supporting each other? Broadsides and Kroot will be your go-tos. You might also consider what kind of allies you might want for your army- Tau have several good choices and work well with allies, from Eldar to Necrons to Chaos Marines to various breeds of Imperials, and all of these can influence how you build your force. If an army stands out as a strong second place behind Tau in terms of aesthetics you like, you can probably work some of them into your final build. If all of that's too much to take in quite yet, you can't go wrong with Crisis or Broadsides. If you get Crisis, though, make sure you magnetize them- there's just too many weapon options to get stuck in one configuration.
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Jul 4, 2014 17:06
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Sistergodiva posted:Thanks! It kinda sucks that the one model I like the most is the worthless one I'd say XV8s are pretty much the bread and butter of your army as Tau - they're so very flexible and can be kitted out for anything from hunting infantry (burst cannons, flamers) to monstrous creatures (plasma rifles, missiles) to vehicles (fusion blasters). Also, the Tau Battlesuit Commander 'official' model is the Finecast one that looks like a bigger beefier XV8 - This guy - but nothing prevents you from just taking a 'spare' XV8 and painting him as a Commander. The difference is literally in that the Finecast model is wearing special XV8-05 'Enforcer' armor - if you're fine with a commander in 'regular' XV8, you can do fine with just a plastic model. (Of course that doesn't mean you can't bling him up a little!) Just to clarify, it's mentioned in the codex, but battlesuits mark their rank with helmet paint. 'Regular' shas'ui Crisis pilots (sergeant equivalents for fire warriors, actually) have helmet painted the same color as the rest of the suit, with sept markings in the usual color on the top. Shas'vre (Crisis sergeants) have helmets painted with solid sept color. Finally, Shas'o (Commanders) have helmets painted with their sept color, with 'inverted' sept markings done in the same color the rest of the suit is painted with. Example: Suit color dark blue, sept color electric blue-white (D'yanyoi) Shas'vre on the left, shas'ui in centre and right Left to right, shas'vre, shas'o, shas'ui
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Jul 4, 2014 17:12
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Just to check, did ICs lose Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider as standard?
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Jul 4, 2014 17:17
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Another rules question: my group is convinced that super-heavies don't care about difficult terrain, and that they can't be tarpitted/stuck in CC. Were these true in 6th, and are they true now in 7th?
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Jul 4, 2014 17:19
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Lungboy posted:Just to check, did ICs lose Move Through Cover and Skilled Rider as standard? They did, since both of those things "echo" to the squad now. Proletariat Beowulf posted:Another rules question: my group is convinced that super-heavies don't care about difficult terrain, and that they can't be tarpitted/stuck in CC. Were these true in 6th, and are they true now in 7th? All superheavies have Move Through Cover, so everything except walkers/gargantuan creatures will be able to plow through terrain at full speed. The rules are a little unclear on the other two, but the general consensus is that they make a Difficult Terrain check on 3d6 and double the result, so moving 2"-12". They are no longer immune to being stuck in melee, at least the ones that can fight at all (i.e. not standard superheavy tanks, aircraft, etc); however, they do have Stomp, which can be pretty devastating to most troops. The "can't be locked" thing was from 5E and has not been in use for some time.
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Jul 4, 2014 17:26
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SRM posted:Their legs are braced really far apart; they need 40s to stand on. You can just fit the heels on a 25mm. It would look horrible since they would be hanging off of it all over the place, but technically doable. Orks have wide stances.
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Jul 4, 2014 17:27
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Sistergodiva posted:How horrible are X25 stealth suits for the Tau? I found 2 boxes unopened really cheap. They're a lot better with the change to burst cannons, and can take marker drones. I believe they work really well with Shadowsun, as well. Only having the one wound hurts them in comparison to XV8's though. Basically, they can be good, but you need to have a plan for them. AbusePuppy posted:If you like Fire Warriors and are going to be starting off with some smaller games, a Cadre Fireblade is actually a pretty solid choice- he comes with a BS5 Markerlight, the Split Fire rule, and when sitting with a squad of FW in the backfield, he drastically increases their firepower. The Fireblade is the leader of the Pulse Parade - He makes static FW able to put out a positively grim number of shots, and has a markerlight, which is the best gun in the codex. Drake_263 posted:Also, the Tau Battlesuit Commander 'official' model is the Finecast one that looks like a bigger beefier XV8 - This guy - but nothing prevents you from just taking a 'spare' XV8 and painting him as a Commander. The difference is literally in that the Finecast model is wearing special XV8-05 'Enforcer' armor - if you're fine with a commander in 'regular' XV8, you can do fine with just a plastic model. (Of course that doesn't mean you can't bling him up a little!) My commander is a standard XV8 that lost an arm after a series of hillarious losses to Orks. I named him Commander One-Arm and left it at that. It's good to be able to tell your HQ from your other suits. Drake_263 posted:Just to clarify, it's mentioned in the codex, but battlesuits mark their rank with helmet paint. 'Regular' shas'ui Crisis pilots (sergeant equivalents for fire warriors, actually) have helmet painted the same color as the rest of the suit, with sept markings in the usual color on the top. Shas'vre (Crisis sergeants) have helmets painted with solid sept color. Finally, Shas'o (Commanders) have helmets painted with their sept color, with 'inverted' sept markings done in the same color the rest of the suit is painted with. Or paint your spacemen however, but making your squad leaders and HQ units visibly distinct is important. The specifics end up being a lot like Tyranid wargear, where the other player points at a space monster, lists all the glands or whatever it has, and nobody else remembers or knows what they do. Tau actually seem to get that a lot, too. "Oh, their anime magic lets the shoot flyers at BS4 this round? Is that legal? Weird." OB_Juan fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 17:51
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OB_Juan posted:
Well yeah, that's the default how they do it in the Codex, but of course you can paint them any way the hell you like! I just found ti was a pretty logical way of doing it. And yeah, Tau definitely suffer from upgrade-itis. The way you can configure them to do whatever the hell you want with wargear makes them kind of hard to teell what's going on sometime - i mean, if you're looking at most other armis, each unit has one role it's specialized towards and a couple of upgrades relating to that. With Tau you can plug in all that extra gear to alter and specialize them to do whatever. The 3rd/4th edition Tyranid codex had the same thing, I'm told, where you could plonk all sorts of biomorphs like extra armor or BS upgrades or whatever on individual models.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:14
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I wouldn't try to put Flashgitz on 25mm bases. I have a box, fantastic models.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:17
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LordAba posted:You can just fit the heels on a 25mm. It would look horrible since they would be hanging off of it all over the place, but technically doable. Orks have wide stances, but Flash Gitz are straight up crabcore: 
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Jul 4, 2014 18:22
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AbusePuppy posted:This is where the debate comes in over whether Ghaz gives up extra VP- in the Escalation rules, it explains how LoW work and notes that there are a couple extra things going on if one is present, including the extra secondary objective that awards VP for damaging the LoW. One presumes that all of the LoW in that book still follow those rules, since 7E doesn't say otherwise; however, Ghaz, as the first LoW printed outside of the scope of Escalation (the FW LoW units all refer back to Esca for how to use them) can be argued to simply be a "normal" Lord of War choice that occupies the slot in the Combined Arms detachment but has no additional rules baggage attached. In the Escalation FAQ, it says that Impending Doom (+1 to Seize) and Through Attrition, Victory (1 VP per 3 wounds) *may* apply if you're using an Escalation mission. They've taken out the part that says that those mission rules apply to any mission you play. This means that there isn't a downside to taking Ghazzy at all, aside from the fact that you also can't take a Stompa at the same time, and you need a regular HQ for the mandatory slot.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:40
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Rules question: In the past, a unit that had markerlights could not benefit from them itself in the same turn, since all guns were fired together. Has this changed in 7th?
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Jul 4, 2014 18:45
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drgnvale posted:Rules question: In the past, a unit that had markerlights could not benefit from them itself in the same turn, since all guns were fired together. Has this changed in 7th? No. It specifically takes a networked markerlight for a unit to be able to benefit from its own markerlights - NWMLs are fired before your other weapons and those can be used to affect the rest of your shooting.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:52
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drgnvale posted:Rules question: In the past, a unit that had markerlights could not benefit from them itself in the same turn, since all guns were fired together. Has this changed in 7th? Weapons aren't fired together anymore. However, I believe that markerlight usage needs to be announced before a unit shoots so they still won't benefit (unless it's networked).
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Jul 4, 2014 18:54
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SRM posted:Yakromunda The interactive gang maker they have is incredible! Such an awesome easy way to keep track of things.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:04
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I was told that there was a White Dwarf issue which introduced variant rules for Space Marines wherein they more resemble how they are depicted in the novels - far more powerful than the typical tabletop Space Marine. Which issue was it? I would like to read it.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:56
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Question on selling models: I realize used models go for 50% retail or so. How about better-than-average painted models? Something like this?  I'm still debating to throw it on SA-mart before I put it on ebay. The total listing is: Defiler - £41 Vindicator - £35 5 Terminators - £28 2x6 Havocs - £25 10x4 Chaos Space Marines - £25 3x2 Bikers - £21 Lord - £15 Sorcerer - £11 2 Noise Marines weapon pack - £9 2 Rhino - £23 FW Dreadnought - £28 Ignore the price, I just c/p the list I made to see what its worth in retail. Not a viking fucked around with this message at 20:11 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 19:59
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Thanks! So since my colour is purple and my sept colour is green my suits would go from lowest to highest rank; purple with green markings > green > green with purple markings right? Is there anything like that for Fire Warriors? Like, should my leader guy in my group of them have a solid green helmet? So what I equip guys with visually matters? Like I have assembled 4 fire warriors, all with the long rifle, should I have some with the smaller rifle? Would I need to paint and glue on those small granade packs or whatever they are to get that upgrade?
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Jul 4, 2014 20:04
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Baron Bifford posted:I was told that there was a White Dwarf issue which introduced variant rules for Space Marines wherein they more resemble how they are depicted in the novels - far more powerful than the typical tabletop Space Marine. Which issue was it? I would like to read it. It was issue 300. The rules were intended as a joke and feature ridiculous things like S6/T6 marines with a 3+ armor save and a 3+ invulnerable that they can roll after their armor. Bolters were 36" assault cannons, lascannons hit everything in a line, flamers were essentially torrent weapons, etc. A tactical squad would run about 1500 points and the dudes could either run around alone or join up in a squad. The rules looked like a lot of fun (for the marine player  ), but I've never seen someone try them out.
Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 20:25
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So how many tabletop Marines do you think it would take to equal the fighting power of one novel Marine?
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Jul 4, 2014 20:32
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I played against some Movie Marines with my Guard when the rules came out. I didn't manage to actually kill one the entire game and it wasn't really all that fun for anyone involved. I could see them being fun for a scenario specifically designed for them though.
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Jul 4, 2014 20:33
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Punisher with three heavy flamers as a support to chimera veterans? Good idea or... The best idea?
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Jul 4, 2014 20:54
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Baron Bifford posted:So how many tabletop Marines do you think it would take to equal the fighting power of one novel Marine? Like a whole army's worth dude. Novel marines are really powerful, and cool and awesome!
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Jul 4, 2014 20:58
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Sistergodiva posted:Thanks! Yes, that's exactly how it goes - IF you want to pain them that way. Nobody here is going to rag you about how you paint your little dudes, that's just how they're usually depicted in-universe. As for Fire Warriors squad leaders, they usually get their shoulder pad painted in the sept color, along with the helmet (if you chose to build them with the helmet on). As for the equipment, general preference for major equipment (weapons and the like) is for WYSIWYG (What you See Is What you Get), just because it makes it so much easier for both players when you can look at a dude and see what equipment he's got. I certainly like building my little men that way, and some tournaments and events require your models to be WYSIWYG. However, you shouldn't let that keep you from doing what you think is cool with them - if you really like the pulse carbine (the shorter rifle), sure, feel free to build a couple dudes with them. For minor equipment like grenade packs, naaahh, don't sweat it. Nobody's going to take THAT close a look at them, though it certainly won't hurt to have a couple with them glued on. If someone starts giving you a hard time about them, they're generally the kind of a player you really won't want to be playing with in the first place. Rules-wise, for the record, Fire Warrior teams really prefer pulse rifles (the long thin guns) for long-range firepower while pulse carbines (the shorter gun with the boxy end) are more of a Pathfinder thing (mostly because pathfinder carbines come with the markerlight, and Pathfinders get the special drone that buffs their carbine). In general you don't want to be mixing weapons, either way - it's just more effective to have one squad with all pulse rifles and one with all pulse carbines than a mixture of both in two squads. Also if you're getting XV8s and are worried about the equipment thing, those are VERY easy to magnetize if you can get your hands on small (~2mm) magnets. I have all the guns and hardpoints magnetized on my battlesuits so I can actually swap whatever guns I want onto the mini as necessary. Each suit comes with one of each gun you can actually fit on it plus a bunch of support systems, so you'll have a lot of options.
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Jul 4, 2014 21:06
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Lord Twisted posted:Punisher with three heavy flamers as a support to chimera veterans? I'd go with the Exterminator variant, myself.
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Jul 4, 2014 21:44
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Drake_263 posted:Yes, that's exactly how it goes - IF you want to pain them that way. Nobody here is going to rag you about how you paint your little dudes, that's just how they're usually depicted in-universe. As for Fire Warriors squad leaders, they usually get their shoulder pad painted in the sept color, along with the helmet (if you chose to build them with the helmet on). Thanks! Yeah I understand that I could paint them any way I want, but I really like that kind of organization stuff. Yeah I'm was thinking everyone was gonna have a pulse rifle anyways, I remember making a group of night goblins when I was into warhammer last time about 12 years ago or something and really regretting not giving everyone spears once I saw a good looking painted army with them. I'll probably prime the grenades (lol) when I prime the large shoulder guards, since I didn't want them being in the way when painting and add them later. The dagger goes on the leader to show that they are bound right? What ally compliments Tau good? I'm guessing it depends on what kind of army you are making, but I though a good beefy melee unit would be nice, but someone said that would just make it so I can't shoot whatever they engage. But as AbusePuppy suggested, I'll probably just pick some kind of race that looks awesome. Gonna check Necrons out I think since I really like their esthetics.
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Jul 4, 2014 21:59
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You could mix in a few carbines if you just want to add some visual variety. WYSIWYG is no longer a hard and fast rule, and few opponents would mind if you said, "all these guys have rifles." Unmodeled or counts-as equipment is only a problem when it can cause your opponent confusion, which is why you want to either decide on loadouts or invest in magnets before you build your suits.
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Jul 4, 2014 22:25
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I expected a little more action in the thread after the GW email that I just got!
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Jul 4, 2014 23:23
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