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Archyduke posted:Don't get me wrong, I think Doug Ramsey is a terrific character, So you're the one.
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Jul 2, 2014 17:49
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Have you read Zeb Well's New Mutants? Doug was pretty kickass in that.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:05
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I never much cared for Doug Ramsey as a character, but I always loved what he represented - that not every mutant was a superhero-in-waiting. Even the manner of his death - shot by a very ordinary bullet - was mundane, was ordinary (well, as ordinary as you can get while coming near the end of an Island of Doctor Moreau pastiche). Still, in the actual stories themselves, he was... well, he was boring. The importance of Doug Ramsey never became apparent until his death; at the time, he was just another dude who was useless in the action scenes. Or, as Louise Simonson put it: quote:He wasn't fun to draw. He just stood around and hid behind a tree during a fight... Every artist who ever did him said 'Can't we kill this guy?' We would get letters from fans about how much they hated him. We never got any letters from people saying they liked him until he was dead. Cypher sucks, but by dying he gives us a perspective on him that's much more interesting and truth be told, as much as I've enjoyed his post-resurrection appearances, I'm not entirely convinced that bringing him back wasn't a mistake, because it only reinforces the notion that anyone with a mutant power is bound to be an X-Man someday; it narrows our scope of what being a mutant means.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:20
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I never much cared for Doug Ramsey as a character, but I always loved what he represented - that not every mutant was a superhero-in-waiting. See also, that crippled and disfigured guy from Astonishing X-Men.
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Jul 2, 2014 19:32
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I never much cared for Doug Ramsey as a character, but I always loved what he represented - that not every mutant was a superhero-in-waiting. Even the manner of his death - shot by a very ordinary bullet - was mundane, was ordinary (well, as ordinary as you can get while coming near the end of an Island of Doctor Moreau pastiche). In the Claremont New Mutants, he was a nice counterpart to Kitty Pryde in a way. Even though everybody filled the "bewildered rookie" angle to some extent, Doug Ramsey was distinguished by not really having any big high-concept hook or much of a background. When she first appeared, having Kitty come from this very ordinary, very normal suburban household was a huge contrast to "fled from Bavarian circus," "was a goddess," etc. among the Cockrum/Claremont roster. Same with Doug, who, after all, was originally just Kitty's non-mutant dweeb friend. It's less an issue of not knowing how to fight-- I mean, presumably he could use the Danger Room and learn his way around just as much as anybody-- so much as having a character who doesn't offer any easy hooks into plots about valkyries, or demon bears, or Scottish fanatics, or Romans in the amazon, or dozens of mutant siblings, or whatever else. He was there to gawk at other peoples' subplots and go "whoa." Which is, usually, yeah, a pretty boring sort of character-- and he is totally superfluous in Simonson's run-- but I really think Claremont had fun pushing at the edges of that archetype a bit. I'm thinking of that story-line where they go gambling with the Hellions, for instance. He also came up with some pretty creative twists on his power-- some of the stuff with the Magus and Warlock was some very sly plotting. Also Alan Davis drew him, which goes a long way for me. When I think of him I always think of that expression Davis gives him when he and Psylocke turn up in that closet, which I think is an all-time great Davis panel. I agree that the overall little "point" of his arc was that not all young mutants should be thrown out onto the battlefield. I forget if he came onto the team during Xavier's tenure or Magneto's-- the latter would make a bit more sense in that light. I would've liked it better if he'd just thrown up his hands and quit rather than dying, but hey, that was the Fall of the Mutants crossover, right? I suppose somebody had to go (it should have been Bird Brain).
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Jul 2, 2014 20:32
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If this whole Magneto series is designed as a bridge from heel hero back to principled villain, as I'm beginning to suspect, it's goddamn well designed bridge.
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Jul 2, 2014 21:14
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Archyduke posted:Also Alan Davis drew him, which goes a long way for me. When I think of him I always think of that expression Davis gives him when he and Psylocke turn up in that closet, which I think is an all-time great Davis panel. This one?  I love the third New Mutants annual as well, which was another Claremont/Davis collaboration; it's the one where the Impossible Man challenges Warlock to a shape-changing contest and the ending is basically Magneto going "ROBOT HOUSE!?"
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Jul 2, 2014 21:41
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What's the context there? Although seriously those are great panels. He looks positively aghast, and then less so in the next panel.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:20
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Stagger_Lee posted:I don't know that it didn't occur to him, I think he thought it was cool to have a non-combatant dude on the team. He rather specifically wanted to write about a mutant who had a power that, while useful, also had absolutely zero combat application. It strikes me in retrospect as his way of having a grounded, "normal" dude running around in the middle of his New Mutants.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:31
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Spiderdrake posted:What's the context there? Psylocke had been captured by Spiral and Mojo and transformed into a kind of female cyborg version of Mojo and traps the New Mutants and Captain Britain in another dimension (I think it's meant to be inside her mind or something; I'm not sure). Cypher merges with Warlock and rescues her, then she beats Spiral and they all warp back to the real world, leading into those panels. It's more complicated than that but that's the general gist of it. I'm not really sure how to explain it. This is the story where Psylocke is outfitted with video camera eyes so she can broadcast the X-Men's adventures directly into Mojoworld.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:41
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Given the Mutant Massacre and its fall out was pretty much 'my' X-Men era, this week's Magneto was Really loving Satisfying. Yes, yes, I know they've all been on a production line for years so they stay dead for all of 30 seconds but Mags going to town on every last one of those bastards was glorious.
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Jul 2, 2014 22:56
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Simonson apparently killed Doug off because she thought all the readers hated him, because they used to just get constant letters into the office about how useless/boring he was. After Fall of the Mutants, the letters changed to "I can't believe you killed off Doug! He was my favourite character!" The latest X-Force was loving amazing, holy poo poo. My only complaint with it is that the narrations are waaaaay too similar in style to David Haller's in Legacy.
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Jul 3, 2014 09:42
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You just have to wait for Marrow's turn to narrate again, baby.
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Jul 3, 2014 12:30
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IUG posted:You just have to wait for Marrow's turn to narrate again, baby. 
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Jul 3, 2014 12:39
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I fell for Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique in the Days of Future Past film. Has the character ever had a solo series? I can't find one in the OP. What are some good Mystique-central arcs/storylines?
Benny the Snake fucked around with this message at 08:18 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 08:12
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Benny the Snake posted:I fell for Jennifer Lawrence's Mystique in the Days of Future Past film. Has the character ever had a solo series? I can't find one in the OP. What are some good Mystique-central arcs/storylines? Mystique had a solo series between 2004 and 2006. I'm a big fan of it, it was a pretty fun spy book. Brian K. Vaughan (Saga) wrote the first 13 issues of it, then Sean McKeever took over. Unfortunately, it only lasted another 10-12 issues before being cancelled, but they were able to wrap up the main storyline at least. Oh hey, I had no idea but the whole thing has been collected! That's awesome. http://www.amazon.com/Mystique-Brian-Vaughan-Ultimate-Collection/dp/0785155112/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1404460880&sr=8-1&keywords=mystique http://www.amazon.com/Mystique-Sean-McKeever-Ultimate-Collection/dp/078515521X/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1404460880&sr=8-5&keywords=mystique Aside from that, she has mostly been portrayed as a villain. If you want some good Mystique stuff, you can check out the original Claremont/Byrne Days of Future Past story. She also features a little bit during the X-Men story of Fall of the Mutants. She was a member of X-Factor during the 90s, but I'm not sure if any of that has been collected. More recently, you could check out the start of Mike Carey's run on X-Men, where she was a member of the team: http://www.amazon.com/X-Men-Supernovas-Mike-Carey/dp/0785123199 You may be able to find all or some of this stuff on Comixology or Marvel Unlimited if digital is your thing. irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 09:07 on Jul 4, 2014 |
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Jul 4, 2014 09:04
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Mystique is currently the villain in everything X-related. Probably my favorite Mystique storyline is Jason Aaron's "Get Mystique", which is actually a filler arc on Wolverine because Guggenheim or Loeb or whoever were taking too long. It is a great story and you should just go ahead and by the Aaron Wolverine omnibus while you're at it.
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Jul 4, 2014 15:00
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irlZaphod posted:The OP only covers current books.  What about McKeever? What's he done and is he a good writer? EDIT: Oh Lord, I looked him up on Wikipedia. The guy was one of the Countdown to Final Crisis writers 
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Jul 4, 2014 18:50
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McKeever's hit or miss with me. His Marvel stuff, for the most part, is pretty grand. Mary Jane, Gravity, Nomad, Mystique, and Sentinel are all good books. His DC work is DIRE, though, especially everything to do with Teen Titans/Terror Titans. I remember pissing off Sean McKeever on the Joe Quesada message boards like ten years ago. He left because I didn't like Inhumans, I think. Still a decent enough guy and I definitely recommend Mystique.
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Jul 4, 2014 18:58
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Little Mac posted:McKeever's hit or miss with me. His Marvel stuff, for the most part, is pretty grand. Mary Jane, Gravity, Nomad, Mystique, and Sentinel are all good books. His DC work is DIRE, though, especially everything to do with Teen Titans/Terror Titans. Guess which company had a lot of editorial interference? McKeever is a pretty decent writer. I didn't read the Mystique stuff, but the rest of his Marvel output is good so I'd imagine that would be as well.
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Jul 4, 2014 19:05
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Benny the Snake posted:You had me at Brian K Vaughan Ignore McKeever's DC work. The man wrote Marvel Megamorphs, one of the greatest (and most In-Cannon!) stories of all time. For those of you wondering, it's the comic tie in related to a Toy Line, where Wolverine, Captain America, Spider-Man, Ghost Rider and the Hulk are given giant Transformer sized robots which are fuelled by their Super powers, so they can fight Doctor Octopus in his own Transformer sized robot. It's gloriously insane. And Spidey makes a joke about it being a New Fantastic Four reunion.
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Jul 4, 2014 21:58
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Codependent Poster posted:Guess which company had a lot of editorial interference? The one which is alleged to have ordered him to write a scene in which Wonder Dog transforms into a big toothy monster, consumes Marvin and cripples Wendy?
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Jul 4, 2014 22:23
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Metal Loaf posted:The one which is alleged to have ordered him to write a scene in which Wonder Dog transforms into a big toothy monster, consumes Marvin and cripples Wendy?  (Teen Titans v3 #69)
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Jul 5, 2014 00:41
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d00gZ posted:
I have neither a face nor a hand big enough for the face palm this deserves.
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Jul 5, 2014 01:22
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Yeah, McKeever's Marvel work was definitely pretty good overall, for whatever reason (be it editorial interference or what) his DC stuff was fairly awful (although I only read a bit of TT).
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Jul 5, 2014 21:23
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d00gZ posted:
The Face is truly the hero that DC deserves right now.
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Jul 5, 2014 22:45
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Because I'm a complete masochist, I'm currenty reading through all the X-Men related series from the beginning. Is Dazzler worth reading and/or does anything of consequence happen in that series?
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Jul 7, 2014 22:30
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Brocktoon posted:Because I'm a complete masochist, I'm currenty reading through all the X-Men related series from the beginning. Is Dazzler worth reading and/or does anything of consequence happen in that series? Does anything of "Consequence" happen? Not really, as things affect the greater Marvel U. For the first chunk of her series, she gets tossed up against a pretty impressive list of nefarious ne'er-do-wells: Enchantress (who becomes a life-long arch because she loses a singing gig to Dazz), Doom, Nightmare, etc. Then in #11, Galactus comes calling and sends her into a black hole to retrieve Terrax. Those two issues are pretty great, actually. There's a solid What If... that follows up on this story that posits Dazzler becoming the Herald of Galactus for a nice chunk of time. She does some teaming-up with She-Hulk and Spider-Woman, and takes on the Absorbing Man with Black Bolt. As you can see, these aren't Important Stories, but they can be pretty fun, and Alison is a likable character. Later, the series gets more...soap opera-y? and she dates the Beyonder for a hot minute.  Archie Goodwin comes in at the end to bring some adventure back to the comic, and he does succeed, but it's all cancelled shortly after anyway. There was a one-shot that came out during the X-Men Necrosha thingy that I really liked, that has her fighting through a Greatest Hits of her Past, orchestrated by Arcade and her now-revived sister. The Dazzler OGN goes between 34 and 35, btw. Ann Nocenti did a 4-part miniseries where Dazzler and Beast fall in love for literally no reason whatsoever and it is terrible all around. redbackground fucked around with this message at 14:29 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 04:51
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Also in (I think) Dazzler #2 she has a concert and all the Marvel heroes come to support her. New York's murder and crime rate presumably spiked that night.
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Jul 8, 2014 05:23
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I think probably the only thing which "matters" is the stuff involving Rogue, since it's referenced later on when Dazzler joins the X-Men. e: Oh, and the Dazzler: The Movie OGN since it's also referenced later (although if you don't read the OGN, you can experience that later issue just like Alison does.  )
irlZaphod fucked around with this message at 13:33 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 09:52
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It's also a little bit interesting in having comic book art that seems more directly influenced by earlier romance comics than anything else that Marvel was putting out around that time. A lot of it was boring and/or depressing, though. Allison's life gets a little dire. There's also a "Beauty and the Beast" mini where Hank McCoy uses the opportunity of helping her kick her drug habit to nail her. Very romantic.
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Jul 8, 2014 13:23
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My takeaway from Morrison's run is that Beast will try to nail anyone that's vulnerable.
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Jul 8, 2014 14:19
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irlZaphod posted:I think probably the only thing which "matters" is the stuff involving Rogue, since it's referenced later on when Dazzler joins the X-Men.
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Jul 8, 2014 14:32
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Also the recap I just read of that didn't mention drugs, so it's possible I read into it as a metaphor at the time, or I'm just making poo poo up.
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Jul 8, 2014 15:17
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There's a pretty good Claremont two-parter (I think it's a two-parter?) late in his UXM run that stages a very weird, dark revisiting of the OGN. I don't think the OGN is very good, but it's probably worth knowing what the hell is going on when you get to those issues.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:14
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Yeah it was in Uncanny #259-260.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:22
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d00gZ posted:
The loss of The Face is truly the greatest sin of the New 52.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:37
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Endless Mike posted:The loss of The Face is truly the greatest sin of the New 52.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:39
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In the New 52 someone will cut off The Face's face and wear it like a cape.
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Jul 8, 2014 16:45
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Starsnostars posted:In the New 52 someone will cut off The Face's face and wear it like a cape. One Face has it stapled to his chest so he can be Two Face again.
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Jul 8, 2014 17:07
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