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Beef Waifu posted:You are watching a children's show. A show where a insect android sucks the life out of a old man right in front of you and pink genie's turn into vomit and force themselves down a dude's throat till he explodes.
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Jul 7, 2014 02:37
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SirDrone posted:A show where a insect android sucks the life out of a old man right in front of you and pink genie's turn into vomit and force themselves down a dude's throat till he explodes. I'm pretty sure both those things happened on Adventure Time!
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Jul 7, 2014 02:43
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SirDrone posted:A show where a insect android sucks the life out of a old man right in front of you and pink genie's turn into vomit and force themselves down a dude's throat till he explodes. Yeah, this is pretty standard poo poo for kids stuff.
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Jul 7, 2014 02:48
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This just reminded me how much of a dick Gohan was.
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Jul 7, 2014 02:51
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Yeah SSJ2 Gohan was basically Vegeta levels of dickery. I mean bastard could've finished off Cell easily when he punched him SO HARD that he went back to his 2nd form. What does he do instead? Fool around until it's too late. 
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Jul 7, 2014 03:30
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Shindragon posted:Yeah SSJ2 Gohan was basically Vegeta levels of dickery. I mean bastard could've finished off Cell easily when he punched him SO HARD that he went back to his 2nd form. Let's be fair though, he's been taking poo poo from evil bastards since he was 4 1/2. Now that I say that, when was the last time he won against one of those assholes? Maybe that's what Piccolo taught him to do when he's winning (Mr.Break-your-arms-and-legs-with-rocks). Rudoku fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 03:37
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Well I guess he does take from his dad. Piccolo was always the one to go the extra mile to kick an enemy while they are down.
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Jul 7, 2014 03:57
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Rudoku posted:This just reminded me how much of a dick Gohan was. I always thought that was one of the best parts. Goku figured that Gohan would become super strong when he got mad, but he didn't expect that Gohan would be so pissed off that he would become a bit of a sadist.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:32
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Does Piccolo give a good showing in any of the DBZ movies, or is he stuck in the Pit of Irrelevance with all the other non-Saiyans? Because Piccolo was the best when I was ten, and I'm pretty sure it's still true. 
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Jul 7, 2014 04:43
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YggiDee posted:Does Piccolo give a good showing in any of the DBZ movies, or is he stuck in the Pit of Irrelevance with all the other non-Saiyans? Because Piccolo was the best when I was ten, and I'm pretty sure it's still true. Piccolo consistently kicks the piss out of mid level villains in movies 1-6. He will always lose to the big boss because Goku has to win, but he generally kills at least one of the henchmen in every film, which puts him head and shoulders above pretty much everyone else.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:51
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YggiDee posted:Does Piccolo give a good showing in any of the DBZ movies, or is he stuck in the Pit of Irrelevance with all the other non-Saiyans? Because Piccolo was the best when I was ten, and I'm pretty sure it's still true. Movie 2 and 7 are pretty much it. Except he arguably did a better job against the bad guy in movie 9 than vegeta did.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:53
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YggiDee posted:Does Piccolo give a good showing in any of the DBZ movies, or is he stuck in the Pit of Irrelevance with all the other non-Saiyans? Because Piccolo was the best when I was ten, and I'm pretty sure it's still true. well he helped beat lord slug by telling Gohan to whistle. Namekians being weak to whistling is also the dumbest loving thing.
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Jul 7, 2014 05:52
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Hey. Goku is a cool guy. Not a great father though.
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Jul 7, 2014 10:48
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Nah, Goku's a straight-up terrible person. He has zero empathy for anyone who isn't directly related to him, or at least not when it gets in the way of his own fun or excitement. He genuinely cares more about a good fight than he does about the people who get their poo poo wrecked unless they are close friends of his.
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Jul 7, 2014 11:03
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Yeah but he still owns man
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Jul 7, 2014 11:08
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I mean, he's friends with God who has access to a dragon that revives people and that's been happening since he was a kid. His perspective's a lot different, to be fair.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:02
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ImpAtom posted:Nah, Goku's a straight-up terrible person. He has zero empathy for anyone who isn't directly related to him, or at least not when it gets in the way of his own fun or excitement. He genuinely cares more about a good fight than he does about the people who get their poo poo wrecked unless they are close friends of his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGvusDIo4VY#t=293 Kild fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 12:20
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See, he didn't even use insta-transmission to stop Cell! What a hero.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:50
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It's been said before, but in a few years when they get to Gohan's explosion on DBZA it's going to be epic. All of that anger, but rewritten to be directed at Goku.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:38
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Silynt posted:It's been said before, but in a few years when they get to Gohan's explosion on DBZA it's going to be epic. All of that anger, but rewritten to be directed at Goku. Goku, Cell, his mother, basically everyone with his DNA in them really. Except for Ox King. Because he is ENTIRELY irrelevant. It'd be funny if Gohan is just constantly ranting in his SSJ2 form. They've probably got a better idea for the joke though.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:29
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ImpAtom posted:Nah, Goku's a straight-up terrible person. He has zero empathy for anyone who isn't directly related to him, or at least not when it gets in the way of his own fun or excitement. He genuinely cares more about a good fight than he does about the people who get their poo poo wrecked unless they are close friends of his. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kgpbHdbZA0 Captain Baal fucked around with this message at 15:43 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 15:41
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Silynt posted:It's been said before, but in a few years when they get to Gohan's explosion on DBZA it's going to be epic. All of that anger, but rewritten to be directed at Goku. Agreed. With Piccolo and even Vegeta commenting more and more about Goku ever being around, the pay off is going to be great.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:06
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I hope it's Gohan's going off the deep end in rage that helps prompt vageta to be a better father to trunks.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:30
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DBZA has really come into its own. I would say, it is actually the only real abridged series that came out of the whole idea. A lot of other projects simply use the existing footage to make their own jokes or references, but with DBZA, all the characters actually feel like exaggerated versions of their canon counterparts and as a result, the jokes are generally pretty spot on. That turned into an actual parody of the source material, which is just really entertaining to watch.
e X fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 17:46
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DBZA is honestly the best thing in the history of the world. When I discovered it a couple of motnhs ago I have had that poo poo on loop almost every day. Editing and voice acting is top notch and the writing gives so much more personality to all the characters in the series. Absolutely amazing and I love it. However, watching it has made me realize how much DBZ is just completely raw nonsense: The concept is great, you've got a space emperor and a mercenary super soldier planet and magic and after life and it kinda meshes together pretty well, but Toriyama just keeps pulling the plot points and dramatic moments out of his rear end and so much of it makes no sense. Why having a higher power level makes you instantly undefeatable to everybody except stronger opponents? No matter how much you get it hit or shot at by weaker opponents it will not affect you, you can just laugh it off. Why does high power level make you instantly faster and and better at hand-to-hand combat? Shouldn't power level only be something to affect your ki blasts and maybe reserves of ki? Shouldn't other attributes - punching and kicking, toughness, strength, speed - be completely different things that have nothing to do with your power level? Why some strikes and ki blasts can bust a hole into your body or dismember you while other can't? Several characters punch and blast holes into each other but apparently you can only do this if you have a higher power level, not counting Krillin's destructo disc that can cut everything. Why doesn't everybody use only this technique - Frieza and Vegeta can apparently also do it - because it supposedly can hurt anybody, no matter how strong? Why Trunks's sword can cut through Frieza but not the androids? How come the androids are so strong? Humans don't have the technology that many of the aliens have - healing pods, hyper speed space travel - but still can make robots that are stronger than Frieza? What are they made of? Why do they have unlimited power supplies? Why only Dr. Gero has them? You'd think that there would be earlier models all over the world, in different countries militaries and so forth? Why humans have fighter planes and battle ships and aliens use blasters? It's established that martial artists can become super beigns and fly and shoot energy and destroy anything, so why would there be any need for weaponry? Just have armies of martial arts warriors. Apparently the Z guys are the only people on planet with these kinds of abilities, so why only them? Why doesn't the world revolve around them? Even Yamcha could conquer to world by himself, so why aren't internationally recognized superstars/threats? Why Goku can have a heart attack, despite being a superman? The list is endless and none of it makes any sense, but God damnit if I don't love every second of it. it's just such a fun and werid world and TFS is just making it even better.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:29
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I'd say that DBZA is a direct improvement over the original source material. Not so much at first, but it improves drastically come Frizea. And i remain intimidated by Imperfect Cell's grand entrance, doesn't help that a certain goon on the TS im on can mimic it pretty flawlessly.  ManOfTheYear posted:However, watching it has made me realize how much DBZ is just completely raw nonsense: Pretty much. And the only two i want to tackle on that list is; Perhaps higher Ki allows you to mitigate blows in certain ways if you are prepared. Thus, you can do the whole "and the dust cleared and only my arms were scorched" thing if you know its coming or are already knee deep in fighting. Also, there were other androids, in DB if im not mistaken. Edit: Thinking about DBZ, DBZA and that whole genre makes me wonder if its possible to do a good job of it in purely written form, or if this "fighty mans show" translates poorly to a book format. Might get exhausting to read the fighting over and over again, but then... how many fights of worth were there in the Sagas? Thyrork fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 19:05
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Toriyama always said that he was a more of gag manga writer than a script manga one. He pretty much came up with things on the fly, without a bigger plan. Dragon Ball originally was supposed to be a simple comic retelling of the Monkey King story, he never expected it to become the juggernaut that it is. Inconsistencies are normal in his method of writing, but he does know how to make things work and that's is his genius.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:21
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Thyrork posted:I'd say that DBZA is a direct improvement over the original source material. Not so much at first, but it improves drastically come Frizea. Ha, yeah, there were other androids. That were all weak enough to lose to DB Goku. Then Dr. Gero arbitrarily powers up the next model to be stronger than Freeza (whom he has no knowledge of)? That's some serious bullshit. Why go from Power Level ~200 to Power Level >1000000? Talk about overkill. P.s. Power Levels are bullshit
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Jul 7, 2014 19:25
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Wasn't the whole thing with Androids 17 and 18 that they weren't stronger than the Z fighters; still quite powerful, but more that they couldn't tire and could not be sensed, making them nigh impossible to track.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:29
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Here's my take. The Earth fighters very early on were able to manipulate their "energy" or "ki" or what have you. I figured that manipulating that energy would allow them to fortify their muscles to A) withstand harder blows, B) punch and kick with more force and C) move faster than others. As Goku et al got stronger, their energy reserves got bigger (thus, their "power level" increased) and that allowed them greater freedom in making themselves stronger. I definitely thought too much about it.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:30
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I believe 17 and 18 are also a hybrid Android/Humanoid design. Trunks even nods to this in DBZA "No, no they are cyborgs." "ANDROIDS! Got it!" Perhaps they are a hybrid of someone with the Z fighter potential and Giro's improvements. Perhaps im overthinking it. Hey, lets just go with "And 17/18 could have been pure Z fighters, but now they are cyborgs." Works for me. Genocyber posted:Wasn't the whole thing with Androids 17 and 18 that they weren't stronger than the Z fighters; still quite powerful, but more that they couldn't tire and could not be sensed, making them nigh impossible to track. 18 Pretty much curbstomps Veggy. Thyrork fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 19:32
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Silynt posted:Ha, yeah, there were other androids. That were all weak enough to lose to DB Goku. Then Dr. Gero arbitrarily powers up the next model to be stronger than Freeza (whom he has no knowledge of)? That's some serious bullshit. Why go from Power Level ~200 to Power Level >1000000? Talk about overkill. He has knowledge of Freeza from the Mecha Frieza fight IIRC which also could give him more knowledge of android related stuff.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:33
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Some Numbers posted:Here's my take. The Earth fighters very early on were able to manipulate their "energy" or "ki" or what have you. I figured that manipulating that energy would allow them to fortify their muscles to A) withstand harder blows, B) punch and kick with more force and C) move faster than others. That's why Toriyama said Super Saiyan 3 is impracticable, too. It's strong, but eats up energy way too fast. The first two levels supposedly have a balance of being strong without using up too much power.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:37
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ManOfTheYear posted:DBZA is honestly the best thing in the history of the world. When I discovered it a couple of motnhs ago I have had that poo poo on loop almost every day. Editing and voice acting is top notch and the writing gives so much more personality to all the characters in the series. Absolutely amazing and I love it. It doesn't. It only works that way when you dwarf that opponent exponentially. If they're only twice as powerful, they would bruise/injure/bloody/knock out teeth (see Nappa, Reccoome). Also, other characters invented attacks that ignored power levels (kienzan). Power levels were mostly an immediate, visual way to show: a) That the hero characters exponentially raised their ki when doing certain attacks, thus showing why those attacks hurt stronger people b) Shows a direct comparison between characters to add drama. Freeza being the end point, since a power level in the millions was unfathomable/undefeatable quote:Why does high power level make you instantly faster and and better at hand-to-hand combat? Shouldn't power level only be something to affect your ki blasts and maybe reserves of ki? Shouldn't other attributes - punching and kicking, toughness, strength, speed - be completely different things that have nothing to do with your power level? Why some strikes and ki blasts can bust a hole into your body or dismember you while other can't? Several characters punch and blast holes into each other but apparently you can only do this if you have a higher power level, not counting Krillin's destructo disc that can cut everything. Why doesn't everybody use only this technique - Frieza and Vegeta can apparently also do it - because it supposedly can hurt anybody, no matter how strong? You don't really understand how ki works, from a mythological sense, which DBZ draws off of as a basis. Your inner spiritual energy, ki, can be used to up your physical attributes. Thus, speed, strength, toughness, etc. On top of that, ki masters could use their ki as all kinds of wacky things, levitation, telekinesis, bursts of invisible energy (thus, ki blasts), and magical stuff. DBZ is just a huge exaggeration of this. This was shown several times in the series, focusing ki in your attacks strengthened that, focusing it to bulk up would make one slower, using too much speed would lower ki (and obviously be using so much ki that it showed up on scouters), etc. You could raise it generally, or focus it everywhere at once. Or you could lower it (see Vegeta lowering his defense, so that Krillen could blast through him). quote:Why Trunks's sword can cut through Frieza but not the androids? Dr. Gero's early artificial humans were basically around early Goku's level. He kept improving his tech after Goku destroyed Red Ribbon to the point of them being later Goku level. Artificial humans 9-15 were probably gradual improvements that didn't measure up to Goku, so he kept trying. Humans have the best technology in Dragon Ball. Time machines, hyper speed space travel, capsules that pop out cars and houses all over the world, dragon radars, etc. That's because they have the best inventors in the galaxy, Bulma and Briefs on that planet. Similarly, they have the best artificial human maker in the galaxy on the planet as well. Dr. Briefs doesn't share how he made his inventions with everyone, and Gero is a giant dick, so he doesn't either, quote:Why humans have fighter planes and battle ships and aliens use blasters? It's established that martial artists can become super beigns and fly and shoot energy and destroy anything, so why would there be any need for weaponry? Just have armies of martial arts warriors. Apparently the Z guys are the only people on planet with these kinds of abilities, so why only them? Why doesn't the world revolve around them? Even Yamcha could conquer to world by himself, so why aren't internationally recognized superstars/threats? Why Goku can have a heart attack, despite being a superman? Humans are only a little above real world levels in technology, except that they have Dr. Doom/Reed Richards/Tony Stark type geniuses living on the planet. This gives the world capsule tech and crazy cyborgs and stuff. Roshi was a one in a million martial artist, and he couldn't even fly. You only had around 4 people who knew any kind of ki blasts, the higher martial artists after them were somewhat superhuman and worked for the number one crime syndicate in the world, and everyone else just smelled really bad or could be beaten up by Mr. Satan. All of them were classic martial art fiction guys that lived out in the middle of nowhere, in deserts, and on islands. The world martial arts tournament was just an underground thing like Bloodsport or something. You had an era when a few guys just popped up out of nowhere that could challenge the old school people (Krillen, Goku, Tenshinhan, Chauzu, Yamcha), and Roshi, etc. thought that was insane. All this stuff started becoming common knowledge after Piccolo started blowing up everything. Before then, it was just a bunch of old guys that wer basically just legends. Even after that, they were so uncommon that Satan could win the newer publicized tournaments. Goku caught an alien virus. quote:The list is endless and none of it makes any sense, but God damnit if I don't love every second of it. it's just such a fun and werid world and TFS is just making it even better. Dragon Ball actually has one of the most internally consistent worlds in that kind of fiction, which is surprising. A lot of it makes sense, in context, it's just that the Internet (most of which is just remembering some of Z from their childhoods) exaggerates a lot of things and then forgets the others/explanations for them all. Kind of like the "Goku is a terrible dad" thing that gets blown up or is based on forgotten things or filler (GT).
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Jul 7, 2014 19:38
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All these questions this page about power levels, ki and physical power only make no sense if you don't know what ki is. Having more ki makes you physically stronger because being physically and spiritually strong is what ki is. See: every Shonen and the entire wuxia genre.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:39
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Darko posted:Similarly, they have the best artificial human maker in the galaxy on the planet as well. Senbei Norimaki. He made one robot that makes anything Gero built look like crap. Yes, I'm talking about his Time Slipper.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:59
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It's true. Dragonball had a robot that could beat Freeza and the other Androids with no effort at all.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:04
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Yeah, putting the crossover into play, they have a robot that stomps planets into other planets, so...
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Jul 7, 2014 20:05
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Mm, thanks for the long post, it was an interesting read. I guess it's true that humans have the best technology, but it seems like it achieved that level only after Sayan Saga and at the beginning of Namek saga because the Briefs got their hands on alien technology. Like Goku gets the ship that can go to Namek only after they discover the ship Kami came with and the Briefs studied it before making their own. Also Goku is in regular hospital bed after fighting Vegeta, while aliens have healing pods. It still feels weird though that only handful of people would discover ki and use it efficiently adn become supermen, while a lot of alien species seem to take it granted. For example the namekians seem to have almost no technology but Dende can fly and he says that the namekians learn that as children. So basically all of the namekians are stronger than Roshi - who can't even fly - but only Nail seems to be a warrior strong enough to fight Frieza's men. This suggests that using ki efficiently is pretty normal in the galaxy but all the seven billion - probably more - humans have only less than ten cabable warriors. That's just weird. Apparently any given species can go either the ki route or technology route, but the ki way always seems to win. Like Dende can heal people with mortal injuries in a few seconds that modern human medicine has problems with and frieza can survive and travel in space without any equipment. This also makes Frieza and Frieza family such great villains: they seem to be these rare alien freaks that have amazing power (without any training?) and have used that to conquer the galaxy, while collecting kinda competent warriors to run his empire while destroying the ones that have potential to reach same levels as he does. He has managed his empire like this for God knows vhow long and eventually the process fails due to chance - the only few sayans he left alive achieve the power to destroy him - and that's a really great story line and kinda shows how the power balance works in the universe. The fact the androids are so strong is a bit BS: if Frieza and Goku are such one-in-a-billion-freaks it's just stupid that somebody can build stronger machines. If, for example, Dr. Gero would first have gotten his hands on the remains or Frieza and King Cold (is that his name?) and put their genes on his creations or somehow created the infinite power recources from them it would have been better writing, in my opinion at least. A lot of classic sci-fi stuff has some kind of ki in it (force in Star Wars and biotics in Mass Effect) but only in DBZ the ki is so powerful. I mean you could probably power the whole Earth by putting power cords to Yamcha's nipples, and that's just Yamcha. Technology is something to make the everyday world more convenient, not to run everything: for example there isn't a single start detroyer or combat ship used by any of the alien species at any point, the warriors just fly to the orbit to fight the attackers there. The afterlife is basically a different dimensions that can be connected to the "alive" world, via telepathic communication and it kinda makes sense that it would have much more powerful beings, like Buu and the Kais. Also the reason for Goku getting so strong seems to be by constantly travelling betweens these dimensions on top of being a sayan and that makes sense too. ManOfTheYear fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 20:26
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I don't think the Truffles could use ki. Ki use in the galaxy probably spread because of Freeza's empire, except for the Namekians, where everyone having knowledge of ki could either just be a random fluke, or a result of them all being split from one person long ago.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:44
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