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HiveCommander posted:Hell, in this day and age there's a ton of nice miniatures that aren't oiling the communist machine directly that make great stand-ins, it's just that you can't use them in GW stores or they'll kick you out. Mantic have some great not-Thunderfire cannons and their non-Deadzone Orcs* look pretty drat good and are all a lot cheaper than GW's ones. Yeah, I'm using Warpath infantry and buggies in my army. Much cheaper, and excellent quality! They look perfect with GW orks, too! I did buy a few recast bits to build the burnas from from lootas/burnas, since I'd be buying secondhand anyway, and I went with recast for a couple testbeds for conversions. I didn't want to spend a bunch of money on an idea that might work out, y'know?
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Jul 7, 2014 11:27
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Karandras posted:I can get the 2+ save restriction wanting stuff to not be super tough but uh you can still field Nurgle marked bikers so pretty sure that's tougher. In fact, bikes in general are ridic amazing in KT. Yeah its a classic case of GW still thinking 2+ is as good as it was in 2nd edition and needs to be heavily restricted! *dies to three lasgun shots*
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Jul 7, 2014 11:42
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It's also hilarious because most versions of Kill Team include restrictions that make it functionally or literally impossible to field a Tyranid army, with the possible exception of "as many Genestealers as I have points for I guess." Because who cares about armies that aren't Space Marines? Those aren't even a thing.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:13
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I suppose, since I AM using them in a 40k army, I can post the first of my boyz in here. They were my oath from last month, heh.  Got the rest of this set of 30 primed, will be working on painting them. The twin melee weapons and such are just for variance, but the big gun will in fact represent a big shoota. Going to play with the color layout a bit for the next batch, maybe make the purple more prominent on the armor. I'm pretty happy with them, though! Oh, and by silly coincidence, the page of newspaper I picked to cover my desk while I paint happens to have an article about the FLGS on it, with a picture of some Warhams minis!
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Jul 7, 2014 12:24
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AbusePuppy posted:It's also hilarious because most versions of Kill Team include restrictions that make it functionally or literally impossible to field a Tyranid army, with the possible exception of "as many Genestealers as I have points for I guess." Hey man, you can field Tyranid Warriors! Those are good, right? ...right? 
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Jul 7, 2014 12:24
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AbusePuppy posted:It's also hilarious because most versions of Kill Team include restrictions that make it functionally or literally impossible to field a Tyranid army, with the possible exception of "as many Genestealers as I have points for I guess." Yeah that's another good reason we ignore the 0-1 restrictions. A single Zoanthrope + 10 Gants does not make a fun Kill Team. GW's hatred for nids knows no bounds!
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Jul 7, 2014 12:25
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PierreTheMime posted:Hey man, you can field Tyranid Warriors! Those are good, right? In kill team? Yes! A three wound model is powerful stuff. You can take a hive guard + 3 warriors in kill team. I like giving master-crafted to the hive guard. EDIT: Hive Guard + 4 warriors? I can't remember exactly what I took (other than a deathspitter with preferred enemy). LordAba fucked around with this message at 12:46 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 12:41
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What're y'all's thoughts on razorbacks? I saw that Forge World is putting out a couple of new turrets and now I have it in my head to run three of the things in a mechanized list. Is the extra firepower worth the points? They're just as fragile as rhinos, but they lack the expendability. I mean, if a rhino blows up it's no big deal as long as your guys got to where they were going and it was only 35 points. A razorback's going to run 75 points if you want good weapons on it and the guys inside will be under-manned though a special weapon and a matching combi for the sergeant will give them a defined role. I typically run a couple of rhinos in my lists out of habit so I'll be using them as proxies for the time being to test these things out. I just figured I'd ask if anyone's had some success with them.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:41
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Moola posted:Yeah its a classic case of GW still thinking 2+ is as good as it was in 2nd edition and needs to be heavily restricted! I agree that they're generally overcosted, but 2+ saves are still great, especially now that power weapons/etc have been nerfed. poo poo was scary in 3rd edition when all power weapons ignored it, poo poo is even more scary now.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:49
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Safety Factor posted:What're y'all's thoughts on razorbacks? I saw that Forge World is putting out a couple of new turrets and now I have it in my head to run three of the things in a mechanized list. Is the extra firepower worth the points? They're just as fragile as rhinos, but they lack the expendability. I mean, if a rhino blows up it's no big deal as long as your guys got to where they were going and it was only 35 points. A razorback's going to run 75 points if you want good weapons on it and the guys inside will be under-manned though a special weapon and a matching combi for the sergeant will give them a defined role. I typically run a couple of rhinos in my lists out of habit so I'll be using them as proxies for the time being to test these things out. I just figured I'd ask if anyone's had some success with them. I run Razorbacks in all my Space Marine lists and they are extremely useful. Having an extra long-range anti-tank weapon is great, giving your army more versatility to addressing enemy vehicles. They're not so hot against Monstrous Creatures, as you'll just be plinking off 1-2 Wounds at best, but when you've got 4+ of them on the table you can quickly whittle down just about anything. In a couple games I had the good luck to dump out every tank my opponents had, leaving them to wander the table as I rode around laughing and doing donuts in the terrain.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:20
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So hey, would anyone be interested in playing via Vassal in the near future? I'd like to play some while I'm still in the process of acquiring my army! Unrelated, I kinda wish I could just put normal skorchas on my meganobz instead of a kombi-skorcha. The shoota function isn't that useful on a unit of them, compared to getting to drop templates more than once, y'know? Esser-Z fucked around with this message at 14:56 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 13:47
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PierreTheMime posted:I run Razorbacks in all my Space Marine lists and they are extremely useful. Having an extra long-range anti-tank weapon is great, giving your army more versatility to addressing enemy vehicles. They're not so hot against Monstrous Creatures, as you'll just be plinking off 1-2 Wounds at best, but when you've got 4+ of them on the table you can quickly whittle down just about anything. In a couple games I had the good luck to dump out every tank my opponents had, leaving them to wander the table as I rode around laughing and doing donuts in the terrain. If you don't mind me asking, what's your preferred load-out? I'm thinking about running a couple of las/plas with maybe an assault cannon or two tossed in somewhere. Both options are easily switched for twin-linked lascannons if they don't work out. I'm ignoring the fact that my choices would require conversions and/or more money for right now.  At least until I've proxied them in a few games.A google image search for conversion ideas found me this classic:  And whatever the hell this is:   Edit: \/\/\/\/\/ I'm aware. I just want to try things out before going down that route. The Forge World turrets look great, but they're not cheap. Safety Factor fucked around with this message at 15:06 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 14:59
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FW just put up pre-orders for the previously model-less options so now is your chance
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Jul 7, 2014 15:03
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Safety Factor posted:If you don't mind me asking, what's your preferred load-out? I'm thinking about running a couple of las/plas with maybe an assault cannon or two tossed in somewhere. Both options are easily switched for twin-linked lascannons if they don't work out. I'm ignoring the fact that my choices would require conversions and/or more money for right now. I want to like Assault Cannons, but the relative flimsiness of the Rhino chassis means you'll want to stay outside of 24" of most armies since that's where most good shooting starts. Generally I run either twin-linked Lascannon or Lascannon/twin-linked Plasmagun. I tend to prefer the reliability of the TL-Lascannon when it comes to anti-tank, because missing a chance to knock out a powerful enemy unit can have severe consequences. That said, I usually go two TL-Lascannon and 1-2 Lascannon/TL-Plasmagun, using the latter for my more aggressive units filled with flamers/meltaguns/ICs, etc.  A WIP Razorback I've got on my desk. It's been preempted by 30 Gargoyles and an Exocrine but I'll get to it eventually.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:12
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Esser-Z posted:So hey, would anyone be interested in playing via Vassal in the near future? I'd like to play some while I'm still in the process of acquiring my army! What's Vassal?
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Jul 7, 2014 16:03
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Direwolf posted:What's Vassal? Program for playing tabletop games online. There's a 40k plugin for it, Vassal40k, though it's for sixth, not seventh. That's easily worked around! I don't have links handy at work, but I could grab 'em when I get home, unless somebody else does first. Google would also work.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:11
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Esser-Z posted:Program for playing tabletop games online. There's a 40k plugin for it, Vassal40k, though it's for sixth, not seventh. That's easily worked around! I'll look into it when I get home from work, but sure, I'd be up for a game. My email is chbenson at alum dot vassar dot edu, shoot me a line and we can figure it out.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:17
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Awesome! I'll get in touch with you after work!
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Jul 7, 2014 16:25
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Any advice on "must-have" units for Blood Angels? I have the basics covered, so now I'm looking to fill out my Elite/Fast Attack/Heavy Support slots. Trying to resist the urge to just collect Dreadnoughts & Drop Pods.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:35
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PierreTheMime posted:Hey man, you can field Tyranid Warriors! Those are good, right? A lot of versions of Kill Team have rules prohibiting models with three or more wounds, psychic powers, and monstrous creatures. But hey, just run 40 Termagants and assume Instinctive Behavior will always work out, right? Also a Tyranid Warrior is as tough to kill as three Space Marine Scouts, costs slightly less, has worse shooting and worse melee, and has fewer useful upgrade options. So no, not good, even in Kill Team. Safety Factor posted:What're y'all's thoughts on razorbacks? I saw that Forge World is putting out a couple of new turrets and now I have it in my head to run three of the things in a mechanized list. Is the extra firepower worth the points? They're just as fragile as rhinos, but they lack the expendability. I mean, if a rhino blows up it's no big deal as long as your guys got to where they were going and it was only 35 points. A razorback's going to run 75 points if you want good weapons on it and the guys inside will be under-manned though a special weapon and a matching combi for the sergeant will give them a defined role. I typically run a couple of rhinos in my lists out of habit so I'll be using them as proxies for the time being to test these things out. I just figured I'd ask if anyone's had some success with them. With the increases to cost in the new SM book, Razorbacks are a pretty underwhelming choice in most cases for them- however, some of the older books can make decent use of them. The main problem is that AV11 is pretty fragile now that Hull Points are a thing, so spending a bunch of points to slap guns on something that dies pretty easily is not a strong plan. LasPlas does put out a lot of firepower, so that's not a terrible option if you are really looking to go that direction, but in the most general sense I wouldn't recommend it. One thing that can help it work is running the Void Relay Network, which can give you up to three Void Shield Generators that put out AV12 bubbles- by overwhelming your enemy's anti-tank firepower, you can help insure that more of your transports stay alive. Definitely scratch-build your VSGs, though, as $150+ per pop isn't something you want to sink for. (I based mine on the Vengeance Weapon Batteries, which seems like a much more reasonable size for the model.)
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Jul 7, 2014 16:41
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So, I'm new to IG/AM - and still haven't gotten a game in with my Armored Battle Group - but I'm curious, when I can expand (right now I have the six Lemans) - where should I go? I was planning on adding another six Lemans for an even split between Battle Tanks and Demolishers/Punishers - and then a handful of Hydras and a Baneblade... Would there be anything else I should add to make it well-rounded, or will I have my bases covered? I'm going for a more fluffy army not necessarily hyper-competitive. And I'm trying to paint as few minis as possible, aside from a few tank drivers and the Hydra Tank crew on the back.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:50
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AbusePuppy posted:Also a Tyranid Warrior is as tough to kill as three Space Marine Scouts, costs slightly less, has worse shooting and worse melee, and has fewer useful upgrade options. So no, not good, even in Kill Team. Yeah I'm well aware of how bad Warriors are. What you mentioned doesn't even take into account S8+ guns which even in Kill Team aren't that tough to come by. I guess you can have one with Eternal Warrior, but even that only goes so far.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:50
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Hollismason posted:Do you have a lot of trouble with finding older "real" models? JerryLee posted:This is almost the first I've heard of metal recasts (except maybe for some Chinese metals that I saw once a couple of years ago). Pretty much all of the recasts/probable recasts that I've seen have been in resin. I suppose if what's being recast is a product that was only ever available in metal (like the aforementioned vintage marines) it'd make sense for them to recast it in metal, but then again I've seen some resin recasts of plastic kits so I figured that they didn't care that much about pulling the wool over people's eyes. HiveCommander posted:Hell, in this day and age there's a ton of nice miniatures that aren't oiling the communist machine directly that make great stand-ins, it's just that you can't use them in GW stores or they'll kick you out. Mantic have some great not-Thunderfire cannons and their non-Deadzone Orcs* look pretty drat good and are all a lot cheaper than GW's ones. Safety Factor posted:A google image search for conversion ideas found me this classic:   I use Razorbacks a lot with my Dark Angels and a little with my Ultras/Fists. They're pretty okay, and their perceived threat level is lower than say a Predator or Leman Russ, so they tend to live longer. They don't hold up well to fire, obviously, but spamming them used to be a pretty pro tactic in 5th. I think they're at the very worst a very usable unit. Combat squad your Tac squad, put the sergeant and special weapon in the Razorback and the heavy weapon back on an objective in your deployment zone.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:06
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Would simply removing synapse and instinctive behavior fix nids for kill team? No fearless, but at least you have control of units.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:06
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The Warpath Marauders are a quite nice kit in my experience, SRM. Except one of the right arms being an annoying post, but hey. Other than that they rock. If you don't like the aesthetic, that's fine, but they're still a quality kit, and IMO they look great with GW orks.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:35
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Master Twig posted:Would simply removing synapse and instinctive behavior fix nids for kill team? No fearless, but at least you have control of units. Well I suppose it would 'fix' being able to take loads of gaunts or gants as a Kill Team that won't kill themselves. Personally I don't know anyone who wants to take a gaunt/gant team as that sounds really boring and un-fun. IMO Kill Team is more about taking your armies cool/fun elite units, which is really hard for nids, as all their elites choices are loving expensive to fit into a 200 point list. Genestealer Kill Team might be fun though...
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Jul 7, 2014 17:40
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I hate their weedy little legs. I hate them so much.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:40
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Contents of the starter box have leaked: http://imgur.com/a/T6qxk Confirmed to include mini rulebook.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:42
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£80 for poo poo you wouldnt use in any of those armies. Rubbish.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:45
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It kind of sounds like the only new kits are the character models, with anything else just being repackaged current sprues for stuff like Grey Hunters or whatever. e: where are you getting £80 from? Lungboy fucked around with this message at 17:47 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 17:45
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Enentol posted:Contents of the starter box have leaked: Doesn't quite come across as an even match up.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:46
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SRM posted:I hate their weedy little legs. I hate them so much. They're... properly proportioned to the rest of the mini? Certainly don't look weedy to me! Whatevs. To each their own. And yeah, I'm not really feeling that starter set.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:46
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If it's actually full kit sprues and not just snap-togethers like the old sets that means all the weapons load-outs are changeable and give you some decent options. I'd pick up the Ork half if nothing other than I love Ork models and it would give me other stuff to paint up. Looks like an okay deal to me, then again I like Killa Kanz and Nobz.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:58
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Doesn't quite come across as an even match up. Honestly, I think it looks okay. The characters are cool and the value is there. It's $170 worth of models (before mini rulebook, campaign book, and the characters) and it's supposedly gonna cost about $135. I think that's a good value, especially after a Warstore discount. serious gaylord posted:£80 for poo poo you wouldnt use in any of those armies. Esser-Z posted:They're... properly proportioned to the rest of the mini? Certainly don't look weedy to me! PierreTheMime posted:If it's actually full kit sprues and not just snap-togethers like the old sets that means all the weapons load-outs are changeable and give you some decent options. I'd pick up the Ork half if nothing other than I love Ork models and it would give me other stuff to paint up. Looks like an okay deal to me, then again I like Killa Kanz and Nobz.
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Jul 7, 2014 17:59
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Rofl that is probably the most imbalanced box set yet. Five nobs with a 6+ save would mostly die to 1 round of shooting, and the Kans would be absolutely violated by the Terminators. Also looks like the least content seen in a box set, and its probably more expensive.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:00
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I'm liking the Ork side. I'll pick up some cheap kans in case they ever get good again. Nobs are good for converting flash gitz and manz. A new warboos model is cool and I use a shitload of grots in the new army I'm building.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:03
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No Dreadnought/Landspeeder/Tank lol.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:12
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Lord Twisted posted:Rofl that is probably the most imbalanced box set yet. Five nobs with a 6+ save would mostly die to 1 round of shooting, and the Kans would be absolutely violated by the Terminators. Assault of Black Reach Space Marine Captain 5 Terminators 10 Tactical Space Marines Dreadnought Ork Warboss 5 Ork Nobz 10 Ork Boyz with Shootaz 10 Ork Boyz with Choppas/Sluggas 3 Deffkoptas Total models: 46 Dark Vengeance Chaos Space Marine Lord 5 Chosen 10 Chaos Cultists with Autoguns 10 Chaos Cultists with Close Combat Weapon/Autopistol Helbrute Dark Angel Librarian 5 Dark Angel Terminators 10 Dark Angel Tactical Space Marines 3 Ravenwing Bikers Total models: 46 Sanctus Reach Wolf Lord 5 Space Wolf Terminators 10 Grey Hunters Ork Warboss 5 Ork Nobz 10 Grotz with Grot Herder 3 Kill Kanz Total models: 36 The major difference is that these are full kits with way more options and material. It saves on design time while still giving people a decent discount for models and extra bitz. I wouldn't say its an improvement in value or anything, more of a side-grade which I'm okay with. I'd take a fully kitted Helbrute and CSM models and drop 10 Cultists from the current starter any day. Edit: Adding the totals up (using generic Warboss and Wolf Lord pricing for the new models), the kit is valued at $217.25US. If it's $130 it's a savings of $87.25 plus a rulebook. Edit edit: 
PierreTheMime fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 18:13
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Enentol posted:Contents of the starter box have leaked: Huh. That... that sure is some models. I don't even slightly understand why they would include any of those kits, though. I mean, for one those aren't even things you would use to make a "starter" army and even two copies of the box only barely gets you a (resoundingly mediocre) legal force.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:28
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Don't forget Warhammer 40k 2nd edition: 20 Grots 20 Ork Boyz 20 Tactical Marines 1 cardboard standee Ork Dreadnought Card ruins Total models: 60 The ultimate value! I agree it's a sidegrade, and I don't mind it in the least.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:28
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