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Beagle posted:HEAT Warhead Rocketeer is your ace in the hole vs. unexpected robotic pod activations. One rocket can wipe out every one of them if they're clustered enough. Otherwise, rush Beam Lasers and put them on scoped Infantry so you've got double tap chances to tear down Seekers. HEAT Sapper Engineers are good vs them if they're low enough to the ground to be naded, as well. Rockets and grenade are close to useless on seekers since they're flying. I really can't make rocket work. No time to steady weapon on EXALT missions, and it ends up blowing my own cover more often than anything hostile. Really a pain.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:17
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Beagle posted:
My mistake, it was May. I dunno everyone seems to toss around advice but (heat rounds) but really I'm having the most trouble early game. If I had half the poo poo people recommend against problem enemies/missions (beam lasers*) I could blast through it easily. Maybe I'm taking to many missions? I take pretty much every mission that is the minimum panic/difficulty, it's fine for the first while until basically seekers start showing up (at which point seekers, floaters and thin men show up all the time and sectoids all but disappear), then I start taking heavy losses. Should I basically only be taking a mission every 5 days or so (to keep training up the same guys)? *these examples are just from my post, but reading what other people recommend to others is usually the same problem.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:22
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Zokalwe posted:Rockets and grenade are close to useless on seekers since they're flying. Use the mouse scroll to change elevation of rockets. I've taken out whole pods of seekers using HEAT rockets.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:32
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Alternatively I've killed my entire squad by forgetting to scroll up to the second floor of a building.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:44
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Long War devs gently caress over Rocketeers so much for little reason. lovely aim, lovely primary weapon, ridiculous new rocket accuracy calculations, Rockets weigh you down a ton, Enemies get tons more health so Rockets fall off in usefulness rapidly even if you can make them connect, no Bulletswarm (or whatever the gently caress they call it)... I think a Heavy killed their dog in real life or something. I will always be shocked that a 'make things harder' mod absolutely fucks over classes like the Heavy while giving the Sniper better skill combinations, abilities and weapons than it can get in the regular game. Zore fucked around with this message at 05:13 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 05:09
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Yeah, the 3-shot laser sniper rifle with no out-of-the-box way to mitigate the high damage resistance on enemies is better than vanilla laser sniper. I don't know what you're talking about man, rocketeers are auto-include on all Exalt missions and when you start fighting Cyberdiscs. A mid-level rocketeer can easily get 0.0 tile scatter with tier 1/2 gear. Update: quote:Beta 13 is posted. It is an intermediate patch that attempts to fix the worst of the Beta 12 bugs. And known issues to be solved for next patch: quote:Beta 14 issues MrBims fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 05:29
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MrBims posted:I don't know what you're talking about man, rocketeers are auto-include on all Exalt missions and when you start fighting Cyberdiscs. A mid-level rocketeer can easily get 0.0 tile scatter with tier 1/2 gear. Yeah, I bring at LEAST one rocket guy (with extra rockets) on any mission liable to have dense enemy clusters, like assaults on larger landed ships, terror missions, etc. Often two. Maybe it's because I play with Aiming Angles and Red Fog for extra granularity (which fits Long War like a glove), but being able to tear half the health off an entire Chrysalid swarm will never stop being enormously useful. Dominic White fucked around with this message at 05:42 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 05:39
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It's Meld expensive, but my favorite way to tell Seekers to gently caress off is to get that bioelectric skin genetic enhancement. I haven't played LW, so that's definitely something that could have changed, but drat if it's not satisfying to see them try to dart in and then suddenly have a squad open up on them.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:29
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Can shiv's not be rescued when you abort a mission? Just lost a shiv that was sitting in the extraction zone after aborting...
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Jul 7, 2014 07:37
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- Confirmed: Build-Item UI is a disorganized PitA and needs a sort applied About time this bug got fixed :v
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Jul 7, 2014 07:54
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MrBims posted:Steady Weapon, Laser Sights and Scopes all apply to rockets, and remember that moving before firing a rocket gives an aim and range penalty. You can easily justify that 80 dollar Scope when it knocks out the wall giving five Exalt elites full cover. Moving and shooting is the panic button and Sappers are always going to be better at that, but waiting a turn to take a shot is the hammer that splatters whole pods of enemies. 
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Jul 7, 2014 08:17
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Meanwhile I'm still getting my rear end kicked on vanilla Classic. Grenades don't help me much if the Thin Man is out of range. I try to stay out of Line of Sight when I can, but it's pretty annoying that a guy Hunkering Down behind a full cover still 15 tiles away takes crits for 9 points of damage. I'm starting to think that, in the early game anyway, cover is basically useless.
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Jul 7, 2014 08:43
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Furism posted:Meanwhile I'm still getting my rear end kicked on vanilla Classic. Grenades don't help me much if the Thin Man is out of range. I try to stay out of Line of Sight when I can, but it's pretty annoying that a guy Hunkering Down behind a full cover still 15 tiles away takes crits for 9 points of damage. I'm starting to think that, in the early game anyway, cover is basically useless. Are you sure you weren't flanked, because with 80 defence that seems pretty unlikely, even against thin men.
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Jul 7, 2014 08:50
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Jabor posted:Are you sure you weren't flanked, because with 80 defence that seems pretty unlikely, even against thin men. It's not systematical, but yes it happened several time and I wasn't flanked (no yellow shield on my guy).
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Jul 7, 2014 09:04
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Furism posted:I try to stay out of Line of Sight when I can, but it's pretty annoying that a guy Hunkering Down behind a full cover still 15 tiles away takes crits for 9 points of damage. Hunker Down gives immunity to critical hits, so something isn't right here.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:22
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bokkibear posted:Hunker Down gives immunity to critical hits, so something isn't right here. Maybe I misremember and I thought I Hunker Down while I didn't? In any case, I'm getting better at Classic but it's like a completely different game and I love it. Just need some re-adjusting.
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Jul 7, 2014 09:28
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Mr. Crow posted:My mistake, it was May. A good early game troop training run is going to look like: Take every mission in March, ideally you will level the same 6 guys as much as possible half the time while getting as many rookies to SPEC as possible the other half of the time. So pick a handful of your favourite classes to have levelled and say "I'm gonna make you guys CPLs by the end of the month", and when you're not levelling those guys, take raw rookies as you can't afford to be training rookies in April. Take every mission in April but now you're concerned about Floaters and Thin Men (and the Terror Mission), so take your A-Team CPLs on hard missions (Swarming/Hard, Terror, tricky maps) while training up your roster of SPECs on lighter missions. May onwards - You've got a good roster of troops, and hopefully you're well on your way on the research front by now. Research and building - I build two extra satellites and an uplink ASAP in March, then no more satellites for a long time. Put them on your home continent and stack extra Interceptors there to play it safe. I go Alien Weaponry first (quick SCOPES), then rush Beam Weapons for quick lasers as the aim bonus they provide is where the comeback really starts against the aliens. Again, if Seekers, Floaters and Thin Men are your problem, try to get some really good troops ready by April so you've got good people to combat them. What kind of squads do you take out there? Are you getting Officer Training School/7 Squad Size by April, or no?
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Jul 7, 2014 11:47
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Thanks for this duder! I don't know if it'll apply to Not-So-Long War (hell, I'm not sure if NSL War is even balanced at this point), but I wasn't sure whether to keep expanding my satellite network or sit pretty and get some bigger guns first.
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Jul 7, 2014 12:11
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Best thing about Seekers is if they try to cloak when you've battlescanned them they will fail, and try to cloak again, and fail, and try to cloak again... I've taken to just reloading if I accidentally battlescan a seeker pod, because it's easier than killing the game process.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:00
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Re: Long War, does the number of enemy squads still go up as the game goes on? Because the first mission I tried had something like four or five squads and I can definitely see it getting tiresome of the last half of the game is like 8+ squads of Mutons and poo poo.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:06
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Zore posted:Long War devs gently caress over Rocketeers so much for little reason.
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Jul 7, 2014 13:30
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Pierson posted:Re: Long War, does the number of enemy squads still go up as the game goes on? Not in my experience. But there doesn't appear to be anything preventing most of an Alien Base from beginning near the entrance and patrolling into your line of sight within two turns. 
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Jul 7, 2014 13:31
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Mr. Crow posted:Can shiv's not be rescued when you abort a mission? Just lost a shiv that was sitting in the extraction zone after aborting... Did it fire? If you end your turn shooting, you get left behind.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:08
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Ravenfood posted:Rocketeers are basically a must-take class for me, so I'm not sure what you're doing wrong with them. If I have a very specific reason not to I might not take one, but they're amazing. Changing extra rockets to reduce movement instead of aim was a huge buff to them, for one thing. And, if you want, they can take two rockets and a shredder rocket from the word go, which is more than vanilla heavies can ever carry. If you're ok with the changes made and how best to stack the deck to make your rockets go where you want, rocketeers are fantastic. Otherwise I can see why they'd be frustrating to deal with. Rocketeer tips for Long War: - Aim, as well as whether or not your rocketeer has moved prior to firing, determine how much your rockets scatter - So don't move your rocketeer before firing if you want a great rocket shot, and realize that if you do move your rocketeer you're getting some pretty significant penalties - Equipment seems to affect rocket aim, so consider loading up a SCOPE instead of that second shredder rocket. Also when possible give your rocketeers the Carbine line of weapons, which increases aim - Overall this is probably a better system than the vanilla system where it was just 90% all the time, especially since high-level rocketeers are so powerful - All rockets all day every day honestly I really like the changes to heavy overall, especially since it means that Assault classes are the new ALL BULLETS ALL THE TIME classes and that pairs up nicely with their increased aim statgains.
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Jul 7, 2014 14:40
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bokkibear posted:Hunker Down gives immunity to critical hits, so something isn't right here. It doesn't when you're not in cover, which I found out the hard way because the game doesn't tell you this. Don't know how it works when you're flanked.
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Jul 7, 2014 15:00
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John Dough posted:It doesn't when you're not in cover, which I found out the hard way because the game doesn't tell you this. Don't know how it works when you're flanked. Um, you can't hunker when not in cover, the option greys out on the UI. Are you talking about Hunkering, then your cover gets destroyed?
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Jul 7, 2014 16:16
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MrBims posted:Did it fire? If you end your turn shooting, you get left behind. Well poo poo. Yea, I took a parting shot at a stupid done that spent the last 3 rounds dodging literally everyone's fire. Roughly 15 shots against the fucker and he still had 1 hp. But my first cyberdisk showed up and I had 5 rookies on that mission so I booked it for the ranger. Spent the previous mission moping the floor with EXALT with my A team. 17 kills, no losses? Eat it 
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Jul 7, 2014 16:16
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I think I might give Long War another shot with the Cinematic Mode thing just to get a feel for everything. I liked the mod in concept, but I'm also a big babby who couldn't stand the drastically different grenades and aiming and air combat.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:18
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MrBims posted:Did it fire? If you end your turn shooting, you get left behind. Wait what the gently caress? Seriously? I've played so much Xcom and i've never had this happen, that's not documented anywhere I think.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:20
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Beagle posted:A good early game troop training run is going to look like: Are you the same Beagle that makes the videos? If so, hah, watching your Impossible + LW videos infuriates me. On your first mission I can have the same exact setup with everyone on a building shooting down on guys in the open and 3/4 of them will miss, you smug bastard! But seriously, thanks for the videos and advice, they're helpful. My early game strategy was to train everyone, so I have nearly all soldiers SPEC, maybe some LCPLs, so I don't have a single point of failure; but I guess it's hosing me a couple months in. Floaters and Thin Men aren't a problem (at least Thin Men not anymore than "Thin Men  ", sometimes are), but I seem to get hosed by Seekers if there is more than one unit visible at a time (even with falling back etc). Could be lack of beam weapons by then, as when I do hit, they block all of the damage seemingly 50% of the time or untrained soldiers. If it's just one unit, they're pretty trivial, stack everyone up behind a wall and overwatch, seeker uncloaks and promptly gets murdered, rinse repeat.No I don't have officers by April. Maybe I'm just a huge baby, but I get the impression you have to be very specific with your base strategy in LW, to the point that any deviation will hose you for the rest of the game and to me that's a terrible design smell. I should be able to have options, even if they're limited 
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Jul 7, 2014 16:32
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You have to be solid in your battle tactics, but there is a lot of wiggle room in overall strategy. The only wrong ways to tech up or build your base are ways that don't actually get you increases in functionality, like 'rushing' genemods or interrogations for tech credits. As long as you have full laser weapons and phalanx armor by start of July, you're doing just fine. The big force multipliers come from higher ranks, like getting Close Encounters on Assaults and Double Tap on Gunners, so you have to do whatever it takes to keep people alive. I routinely throw rookies in front of overwatching Cyberdiscs even where my bigger guys might maybe kinda sorta survive, just to make drat sure that they do survive.
MrBims fucked around with this message at 17:53 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 17:50
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Started applying the thread's advice re: rockets. I can't believe the difference it makes. I don't expect to be able to use steady weapon on EXALT missions, but the scope already makes a difference, I've already ordered some more. Do you often skip terror missions in LW? Since even a success increases terror, it's kinda pointless to do them in a country that is already in the red since you won't save it anyway.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:08
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Every citizen counts in terror missions, and on my current campaign I got mega-screwed on getting the Asia continent bonus when one country left after a successful terror mission where 0 citizens survived. Trying to salvage that, and it hurts. Even if you don't particularly care about the country leaving, terror missions are great for experience because the aliens will often prioritize citizens over your soldiers, and if you want to get Chitin Plating, you need a lot of Chryssalid corpses.
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Jul 7, 2014 18:22
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Also recently started to play LW, and it revived my interest in the game! Yeah, there are a lot of  and  moments before you get the hang of it, but so far it has been fun. Harsh, but mostly fun. Though, I'm playing on normal for now because gently caress figuring out all the new things on harder settings. I too had my gripes with rockets early on, and actually didn't know that steady would help them. Other than that, it's a really good idea to stay still and pick the right gear(carbines, sight/scopes, and maybe not put on all the weight ever so that you can actually move). In general, it's a good idea to explore your equipment options and think about weight and what things work out for your style. For instance, flashbangs are quickly becoming my favorite utility item. They break overwatch and ruin the aim of something dangerous for a turn. Super good for dealing with Outsiders early on. Weight is also more complex than it first seems, because different classes can wear different things without being burdened by them. It's mostly grenades and small stuff, but worth taking into account. And I'd suggest to have a lot of snipers, and bring one on almost every mission. Helped me out tremendously so far! Especially when you transition into the Thin Men/Floater phase and still use basic weapons.I'm in the fourth month, and my ground game has gone steady so far. Surprisingly few KIAs, and not too many awful missions. The hardest so far was saving Zheng against an onslaught of Thin Men(two snipers ftw, but soo much acid), and storming a landed supply ship in month three. That one was kind of a test on my part, because I just wanted to see what the aliens would throw at me and then bail. 4 Seekers, Floaters, Thin Men, Chrysalids, a zombie, and three Outsiders later I loving did it. They also came at me in that order, and I mostly played it slow in the hills around the ufo. Took forever and my whole squad booked a long stay in the hospital, but I got a ton of xp and loot! My air game is lacking though, and I stay clear of anything that's not a scout. Though, at least harrasing an Ufo seems to give the chance to break its mission. Tested that by save scumming and managed to have an Ufo decide to not shoot my satelite after taking some hits. Could be luck, could be a feature? I'm close to getting my first beam things, so I hope I can get some new weapons for my poor little planes after that. Zokalwe posted:Do you often skip terror missions in LW? Since even a success increases terror, it's kinda pointless to do them in a country that is already in the red since you won't save it anyway. So far I only had to do two, but they were kinda brutal. Tons of floaters and...  My first contact with them in this run! Kinda lucky that they kept close so that I could grenade them to hell. Don't ask me about triggering a pack on the first move of my second terror mission though. Very nasty stuff 
Tin Tim fucked around with this message at 18:52 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 18:44
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Let me tell you about meeting LW 'nids and how setting up a sweet overwatch ambush failed horribly when I discovered they had lightning reflexes
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Jul 7, 2014 19:09
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Actually, I think only the pack leader has LR. At least that's what I saw during my raid on that supply ship. For people not in the know, basically every enemy group will have one member with higher health than the rest. That's the leader, and some of them can have skills as far as I understood it.
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Jul 7, 2014 19:32
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Sorry for the quality, I was playing my PS3 edition. A companion mission to a previous poster's!
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Jul 7, 2014 19:45
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EmmyOk posted:Sorry for the quality, I was playing my PS3 edition. A companion mission to a previous poster's! I hope you're not planning to bring George Michael to that.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:26
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amanasleep posted:Um, you can't hunker when not in cover, the option greys out on the UI. Are you talking about Hunkering, then your cover gets destroyed? True, I misremembered. The soldier in question was in cover, but flanked. I hunkered down and he got critted anyway, so the immunity against criticals only works when not flanked. e: Mission names! One of the better ones was called Fake Hero, and right now I completed Operation Electric Bottle.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:43
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Man, I am getting my rear end kicked in Long War. I tried my usual strat of rushing carapace armor, or whatever the equivalent is called, is that still a valid strat? Should I go right for lasers? Floaters and Seekers are kicking my rear end. I raided a landed large UFO and a regular muton killed so many guys. Send help.
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Jul 7, 2014 20:53
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