Urban Fantasy: I wish there was more necromancy and less group sex

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Urban Fantasy: I wish there was more necromancy and less group sex

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ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Roger Tangerines posted:

Anybody else read The Severed Streets?

I finished it a couple of days ago and I thought it was OK, not as good as London Falling but with some good ideas.

The reveal that everyone who ever lived in London is in Hell (or at least the Smiling Man's version of Hell, or whatever it is) was quite interesting. I hope that Cornell is planning to keep up the pace of story development - the books seem much more willing to explain and define the concepts and sides involved than Dresden did in the early books.

That said, swathes of it sucked. The Neil Gaiman stuff felt a bit name-droppy and masturbatory - although given the culture the books present, you'd expect to find Gaiman down there some place. I think I liked it better when he was first introduced by physical description, and I thought "ha, it's clearly Neil Gaiman". It felt like a nice little nod and it sort of ruined it when he got named, and then became a central secondary character. Sounds like he's going to be back in later books, too. Not sure how I feel about that.

There is no loving point at all killing off a lead character if the previous half of your book is about an object that brings people back from the dead. It just doesn't work. As soon as Quill gets slashed up, you know that a) he'll be back by the end of the book, and b) the Costain/Ross conflict is going to fizzle out.

Speaking of Ross, her whole story felt like a wasted opportunity. It's obviously going to come up again in later books, but it didn't come up enough in this one. She gave away all of her happiness and it's never really explained how that feels, nor does it seem to affect her day-to-day attitude or behaviour in any way.

I'm gonna stick with the series mainly because I like the overall premise, and Quill. That bit where his wife comments that he looks like Gene Hunt was a bit wince-inducing, too. We're all aware he's Gene-lite. Drawing attention to it like that makes it less easy to swallow.

I made the mistake of starting it two nights before Skin Game hit. Then I dropped it in favor of Skin Game, and I haven't gone back to it yet.

I'll give it another shot here once I finish Old Man's War again.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 03:53

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:16

Big Bad Beetleborg: Apr 8, 2007; Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle.

Roger Tangerines posted:

Anybody else read The Severed Streets?

Yeah pretty much everything you said there is spot on.

# ? Jul 5, 2014 07:16

AppropriateUser: Feb 17, 2012

Fried Chicken posted:

It is also explicitly stated in Cold Days at the Gates scene that Winter is the cold brutal uncaring logic and Summer is the warm gentle caring emotions.

It sets up the thematic contrast of gibbering madness held at bay by logic, and logic is tempered by compassion.

"Mab is all about cold uncaring logic" comes from Titania, who by all the available evidence is kind of a moron (like everyone associated with Summer except for Eldest Gruff and the Mother).

All we get from the Gates scene is "Mab guards the walls of reality, Summer guards civilization from Mab."

# ? Jul 5, 2014 22:32

WarLocke: Jun 6, 2004; You are being watched.

Mab is pretty much the incarnation of control. She has her poo poo on lockdown precisely because when we see her control slip, what's underneath is loving FERAL.

Maeve was different in that she couldn't control it. Or maybe didn't want to, or was made to not want to ( :tinfoil:

# ? Jul 5, 2014 22:41

Megazver: Jan 13, 2006

So Harry Connolly released a new short story collection and it has a new Twenty Palaces story. It's awesome and so are the rest of the stories.

# ? Jul 8, 2014 12:54

g0del: Jan 9, 2001; Fun Shoe

Roger Tangerines posted:

Anybody else read The Severed Streets?

I finished it a couple of days ago and I thought it was OK, not as good as London Falling but with some good ideas.

The reveal that everyone who ever lived in London is in Hell (or at least the Smiling Man's version of Hell, or whatever it is) was quite interesting. I hope that Cornell is planning to keep up the pace of story development - the books seem much more willing to explain and define the concepts and sides involved than Dresden did in the early books.

That said, swathes of it sucked. The Neil Gaiman stuff felt a bit name-droppy and masturbatory - although given the culture the books present, you'd expect to find Gaiman down there some place. I think I liked it better when he was first introduced by physical description, and I thought "ha, it's clearly Neil Gaiman". It felt like a nice little nod and it sort of ruined it when he got named, and then became a central secondary character. Sounds like he's going to be back in later books, too. Not sure how I feel about that.

There is no loving point at all killing off a lead character if the previous half of your book is about an object that brings people back from the dead. It just doesn't work. As soon as Quill gets slashed up, you know that a) he'll be back by the end of the book, and b) the Costain/Ross conflict is going to fizzle out.

Speaking of Ross, her whole story felt like a wasted opportunity. It's obviously going to come up again in later books, but it didn't come up enough in this one. She gave away all of her happiness and it's never really explained how that feels, nor does it seem to affect her day-to-day attitude or behaviour in any way.

I'm gonna stick with the series mainly because I like the overall premise, and Quill. That bit where his wife comments that he looks like Gene Hunt was a bit wince-inducing, too. We're all aware he's Gene-lite. Drawing attention to it like that makes it less easy to swallow.

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Agreed. The Neil Gaiman parts really annoyed me, and while the concept of sacrificing all your future happiness is pretty horrifying, it's crippled by happening to a character who's never really been shown being happy before.

# ? Jul 8, 2014 17:17

Some Pinko Commie: Jun 9, 2009; CNC! Easy as 1️⃣2️⃣3️⃣!

Something about that guy's ban history has me questioning his opinions about good books.

# ? Jul 8, 2014 18:17

Benny the Snake: Apr 11, 2012; GUM CHEWING INTENSIFIES

Now that I am reading the Dresden Files, I've noticed how similar Dresden is to Constantine. Now I want to get into Hellblazer, but I'll save that for a different thread.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 00:27

WindmillSlayer: Oct 16, 2013

oh shitttt harry is trying to stop the prison from exploding and the wild hunt is after him hes so hosed!

# ? Jul 9, 2014 03:50

Grundulum: Feb 28, 2006

WindmillSlayer posted:

oh shitttt harry is trying to stop the prison from exploding and the wild hunt is after him hes so hosed!

Give context for your spoilers, dude. There's no way to know whether that's from Skin Game or Storm Front from what you posted. At least, not without hovering over the text and potentially ruining whatever surprise the coding was meant to contain.

In less curmudgeonly news, "hes so hosed" may as well be the subtitle for every Dresden files book after Fool Moon.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 05:58

Scorchy: Jul 15, 2006; Smug Statement: Elementary, my dear meatbag.

Finished the Alex Verus books recommended by this thread, they were pretty entertaining. The main character's powers were interesting and creatively described, though the rest of the world-building seemed less well-thought out and more made up on the fly. If I had a complaint it's that, I guess partly because of Verus's powers, there's no real mystery to the plots. The stories are pretty one-track and there's just the beginning straight to the end, with no real sideplots or red herrings or stuff like that. The first 3 books are pretty even keel, and the 4th one is markedly better. I'm also really glad Luna eventually stopped being such a petulant idiot.

# ? Jul 9, 2014 08:34

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Latest Laundry novel -

Aaaargh! Angleton! Andy! :stare:

# ? Jul 10, 2014 08:48

ookiimarukochan: Apr 4, 2011

replying to the above spoilers

Yeah, it's sad that Andy died, but I don't think Angleton is gone for good - there was a bit too much about him testing Bob for me to think that that wasn't some sort of test, "how do you cope when I'm not here" - unfortunately we won't find out for at least 3 years as Bob won't be narrating either of the next two Laundry books

# ? Jul 10, 2014 14:59

MadDogMike: Apr 9, 2008; Cute but fanged

ookiimarukochan posted:

replying to the above spoilers

Yeah, it's sad that Andy died, but I don't think Angleton is gone for good - there was a bit too much about him testing Bob for me to think that that wasn't some sort of test, "how do you cope when I'm not here" - unfortunately we won't find out for at least 3 years as Bob won't be narrating either of the next two Laundry books

He specifically stated to Mo he felt his death was coming soon in Fuller Memorandum, so I think it's real and it sticks. Builds up the pressure for Nightmare Green too by removing the guy who's logically the best source they have on the subject. I think the "testing" was very much in the nature of a final exam type thing.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 16:23

ZorajitZorajit: Sep 15, 2013; No static at all...

ookiimarukochan posted:

replying to the above spoilers

Yeah, it's sad that Andy died, but I don't think Angleton is gone for good - there was a bit too much about him testing Bob for me to think that that wasn't some sort of test, "how do you cope when I'm not here" - unfortunately we won't find out for at least 3 years as Bob won't be narrating either of the next two Laundry books

Saw Andy died and Bob and briefly forgot you're not talking about the Dresden Files. Some modicum of relief at remembering that. Not knocking you, been meaning to read that series too... eventually.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 17:30

Pendent: Nov 16, 2011; The bonds of blood transcend all others.
But no blood runs stronger than that of Sanguinius; Grimey Drawer

MadDogMike posted:

He specifically stated to Mo he felt his death was coming soon in Fuller Memorandum, so I think it's real and it sticks. Builds up the pressure for Nightmare Green too by removing the guy who's logically the best source they have on the subject. I think the "testing" was very much in the nature of a final exam type thing.

Continuing the spoilers for the last Laundry Files book

I just can't believe that's the last we've seen of Angleton. An offscreen death for such a major character seems odd to me, particularly when we never saw a body.
If the ritual to bind him to a new body wasn't quite so horrific I would guess they would just summon him up again. As it is it's tough to say but I think he'll be back, one way or another.

# ? Jul 10, 2014 17:50

NmareBfly: Jul 16, 2004; I posted my food for USPOL Thanksgiving!

Laundry files:

Wasn't the description of what was left in Angleton's office pretty similar to the stasis bubble that the laundry-vampire was keeping his dinner in? There's a big black sphere left over that noone can get close to. I figured two of those showing up within a couple chapters of each other means Angleton's gonna pop back out at some point. Or maybe I missed something.

It feels vaguely appropriate to talk about this in here, given that Bob has to read a bunch of the Dresden books. :lol:

# ? Jul 11, 2014 00:09

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Yeah I did get a laugh out of the whole having to read the entirety of Vampires fiction thing. Especially when he mentioned changes.

ookiimarukochan posted:

replying to the above spoilers

Yeah, it's sad that Andy died, but I don't think Angleton is gone for good - there was a bit too much about him testing Bob for me to think that that wasn't some sort of test, "how do you cope when I'm not here" - unfortunately we won't find out for at least 3 years as Bob won't be narrating either of the next two Laundry books

He won't? Where did this come out?

My own personal hypothesis is that like Moiraine for the Wheel of Time, Angleton will come back once of the characters are on his power and knowledge level - he clearly knows a shitload and it's time for a training montage

# ? Jul 11, 2014 02:41

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

NmareBfly posted:

Laundry files:

It feels vaguely appropriate to talk about this in here, given that Bob has to read a bunch of the Dresden books.

What? I need to know more.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 02:58

tithin: Nov 14, 2003; [Grandmaster Tactician]

Error 404 posted:

What? I need to know more.

Without revealing too much of the story, Bob has to go and read vampire fiction to catalogue common themes and weaknesses across fiction for one of those makeshift / makework meetings he's forced to attend by Angleton and he explicitly mentions having to grudgingly read Dresden a few times.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:00

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

Sir Shion posted:

Without revealing too much of the story, Bob has to go and read vampire fiction to catalogue common themes and weaknesses across fiction for one of those makeshift / makework meetings he's forced to attend by Angleton and he explicitly mentions having to grudgingly read Dresden a few times.

I'm not too worried about spoilers or the story, but that is really funny.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:02

oxsnard: Oct 8, 2003

Just finished Dead Beat. Loved it. Excited I'm only halfway through the series so far. I know there's one season of a TV show. Is it worth watching? Does anyone here think it'll be redone as a new TV series ever?

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:03

WarLocke: Jun 6, 2004; You are being watched.

oxsnard posted:

Just finished Dead Beat. Loved it. Excited I'm only halfway through the series so far. I know there's one season of a TV show. Is it worth watching? Does anyone here think it'll be redone as a new TV series ever?

I liked the show, but I watched it before reading the books. While some things would hold up I think (Paul Blackthorne made for a good Harry, and TV Bob is amazing) others I think would be kind of jarring after reading the books (the actresses for Murphy and Susan seem swapped, the guy playing Morgan does a good job but the character is like a black Morgan/Michael mashup) and others just kind of come out of nowhere (the episode dealing with Justin DuMorne comes to mind).

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:06

Error 404: Jul 17, 2009; MAGE CURES PLOT

oxsnard posted:

Just finished Dead Beat. Loved it. Excited I'm only halfway through the series so far. I know there's one season of a TV show. Is it worth watching? Does anyone here think it'll be redone as a new TV series ever?

The show isn't very good, like, it's not offensively bad or anything, it's just really generic. I wouldn't spend money on it, but you can find it on Netflix.

I think the rights have finally reverted back to Jim, so something might happen in the future.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:06

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

TV show is decidedly mediocre. It is at its best when adapting the books but it only does that for an episode or two.

It's not awful or anything. The header in the OP has the lead actor in it.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:07

Oroborus: Jul 6, 2004; Here we go again

I think butcher said it's been optioned at one of his recent panels.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:09

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

You can watch Arrow and get the best parts of the TV show anyway.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 03:29

oxsnard: Oct 8, 2003

Oroborus posted:

I think butcher said it's been optioned at one of his recent panels.

That's sweet but it could go either way. Not sure I'd like the CW treatment for the show but FX/HBO/Showtime could be amazing

# ? Jul 11, 2014 04:18

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

oxsnard posted:

That's sweet but it could go either way. Not sure I'd like the CW treatment for the show but FX/HBO/Showtime could be amazing

Have you seen Arrow? Because if they do Dresden with the same quality and care they've done Arrow, I'm on board 100%.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 06:30

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

Error 404 posted:

I'm not too worried about spoilers or the story, but that is really funny.

He has to do it as part of the committee overseeing HR policies and health and safety regulations for vampiric employees, which is codenamed DRESDEN RICE, too.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 10:50

Big Bad Beetleborg: Apr 8, 2007; Things may come to those who wait...but only the things left by those who hustle.

Reveilled posted:

He has to do it as part of the committee overseeing HR policies and health and safety regulations for vampiric employees, which is codenamed DRESDEN RICE, too.

I spent several pages trying to remember any link between Dresden and a staple carbohydrate

# ? Jul 11, 2014 10:57

ookiimarukochan: Apr 4, 2011

Error 404 posted:

I'm not too worried about spoilers or the story, but that is really funny.

He mentions reading a book about a Chicago wizard in The Fuller Memorandum IIRC - it was something enough to make it obvious he was namechecking Dresden without saying "Harry Dresden" at least.

Sir Shion posted:

He won't? Where did this come out?

He's mentioned it several times. The next book is told from Mo's point of view and overlaps the end of this book, and then the book after that the POV character is Alex - so we'll have gone from reading the adventures of the BOFH to the adventures of the PFY.

mirthdefect posted:

I spent several pages trying to remember any link between Dresden and a staple carbohydrate

I have literally JUST got it now.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 11:02

Reveilled: Apr 19, 2007; Take up your rifles

mirthdefect posted:

I spent several pages trying to remember any link between Dresden and a staple carbohydrate

Yeah, it was only the mention of Anne Rice in combination with Jim Butcher while he was complaining about it that finally made me get the Rice bit. I spent most of that period trying to remember if there was anyone in the Dresden books with the surname Rice.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 15:05

computer parts: Nov 18, 2010; PLEASE CLAP

ConfusedUs posted:

Have you seen Arrow? Because if they do Dresden with the same quality and care they've done Arrow, I'm on board 100%.

The most controversial thing about Dresden on a new CW type of show is that Harry will probably find himself shirtless unexpectedly quite a few times (also the budget for anything cool wouldn't be there but eh).

And my comment about Arrow above is because of Blackthorne who is awesome! :swoon:

# ? Jul 11, 2014 16:23

Rhymenoserous: May 23, 2008

Benny the Snake posted:

Now that I am reading the Dresden Files, I've noticed how similar Dresden is to Constantine. Now I want to get into Hellblazer, but I'll save that for a different thread.

Dresden has literally nothing in common with Hellblazer's Constantine. Harry is a do gooder who occasionally tarnishes his soul in the name of the greater good. John is a self interested con man who sometimes does good on accident, or because of extreme guilt. Harry is big on overt displays of force, John is more of a subversive mindfuck element who uses magic to augment cons. Dresden is in love with magic, Constantine is addicted to it.

# ? Jul 11, 2014 19:21

Fried Chicken: Jan 9, 2011; Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

ookiimarukochan posted:

He's mentioned it several times. The next book is told from Mo's point of view and overlaps the end of this book, and then the book after that the POV character is Alex - so we'll have gone from reading the adventures of the BOFH to the adventures of the PFY.

Quite literally, if you read the character introduction. I'm certain that is not an accident, Stross has to be familiar with those stories

# ? Jul 12, 2014 01:06

ConfusedUs: Feb 24, 2004; Bees?
You want fucking bees?
Here you go!
ROLL INITIATIVE!!

Fried Chicken posted:

Quite literally, if you read the character introduction. I'm certain that is not an accident, Stross has to be familiar with those stories

Stross really gets corporate IT/Software Development, let me tell you. We switched to an Agile/Scrum system at work ~9 months ago and all that stuff with The Scrum in the latest Laundry book? It spoke to my heart, man.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 01:43

ookiimarukochan: Apr 4, 2011

Fried Chicken posted:

Quite literally, if you read the character introduction. I'm certain that is not an accident, Stross has to be familiar with those stories

"Bob Howard" (which, we are regularly told, is a code-name) is a short form of his full name "Bob Oliver Francis Howard" - Stross is totally familiar. If you aren't reading his blog, http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/, you are missing out on a bunch of explanations, interesting story ideas he can't quite turn into books, etc etc.

# ? Jul 12, 2014 10:35

navyjack: Jul 15, 2006

ookiimarukochan posted:

"Bob Howard" (which, we are regularly told, is a code-name) is a short form of his full name "Bob Oliver Francis Howard" - Stross is totally familiar. If you aren't reading his blog, http://www.antipope.org/charlie/blog-static/, you are missing out on a bunch of explanations, interesting story ideas he can't quite turn into books, etc etc.

Yeah, I kind of knew it was a code name since he mentions the whole true name thing in the first book, but when he gets mentioned in the same breath as "Agent CANDID" with the same conventions, I was really :catdrugs:

# ? Jul 12, 2014 12:39

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# ? May 14, 2024 21:16

Daric: Dec 23, 2007; Shawn:
Do you really want to know my process?

Lassiter:
Absolutely.

Shawn:
Well it starts with a holla! and ends with a Creamsicle.

I read the latest Iron Druid book.

I really enjoyed it. Am I in the minority on this?

# ? Jul 13, 2014 00:20

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Urban Fantasy: I wish there was more necromancy and less group sex

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