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Dulkor posted:Run it with a mini-swarm of Fighters or give it a bit less equipment (usually just the HLC) and use it as the fire support/tank for a couple aces. Those builds tend to work well for me. I feel like I could do something like this: Krassis Trelix: Heavy Laser Cannon, Mercenary Copilot, Stealth Device (48) Howlrunner: Elusiveness, Stealth Device (23) Black Squadron (14) Black Squadron (14) Total: 99 Or drop Holwrunner and run 4x Obsidian Squadron instead. Play keepaway with Krassis, fly the TIEs alongside him to force the enemy to either engage the Firespray at range 3 (where I want them) or put themselves in range of the TIEs, potentially at range 1. I could run Kath with Marksmanship instead, but that's 5 more points I'd have to fetch from somewhere (dropping the four Obsidians to Academys). Alternatively: Krassis Trelix: Heavy Laser Cannon (43) Soontir Fel: Push the Limit (30) Turr Phennir: Veteran Instincts (26) Total: 99 But that's a hell of a lot of points tied up in two very fragile ships.
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Jul 8, 2014 22:37
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Tekopo posted:Well to me the ability seems pretty clear: it's just worded differently because it needs to specify that it has to be within his firing arc. If it meant that it was only Etahn attacking that triggered it, it would have stated so. It seemed pretty clear to me too, but I just got into the game and this guy has been playing longer. Is there some official FAQ/rules listing like there is Oracle for Magic the Gathering?
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Jul 8, 2014 22:51
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Sigma-X posted:Is there some official FAQ/rules listing like there is Oracle for Magic the Gathering? There's a FAQ, but it's three months old and does not have Etahn on it: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=174&esem=4 e; as a random aside, it's super weird that the Rebels keep getting these pilots and astromech upgrades with neat synergies/force multiplier effects like Tarn+R7, Biggs, Dutch, Etahn, etc. whereas the Imperials have basically jack poo poo for force multipliers or synergies between pilots (there's Howl, and then sort of Vader + Squad Leader, and then the shuttle but that's a support ship anyway). The Empire are the ones supposed to have a well-trained army, the Rebels are supposed to be a rag-tag bunch of farmers, pirates and smugglers. Where's all my fun combo potential on the Imperial side? 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 22:58
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Etahn's ability is worded differently because it doesn't affect friendly ships, it affects all defending enemy ships in his arc and range. It causes them to grant crits when defending. So all your friendly ships benefit, yes. So do all enemy ships, if they happen to target that enemy ship somehow. So if you're playing a Free-For-All, everyone in your arc is vulnerable to everyone else.
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Jul 8, 2014 23:42
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Lemon Curdistan posted:There's a FAQ, but it's three months old and does not have Etahn on it: http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=174&esem=4 Howlrunner is pretty much better than anything Rebels can put up, when it comes to force multipliers. By a huge margin.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:05
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Played four games with my Etahn + 2x Blackmoon E-Wing build today. After learning how to maneuver a little better, it's...not bad. It's not super loving great, but not bad. It really beats down on low-PS or low-shields builds. Against other 3-ship elite builds, particularly Rebel builds, it's decidedly more meh.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:11
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Every time I look at an E-Wing, all I can think is, "this could be Wedge." Like, they're clearly a bit better statwise, but the dial isn't really impressive and they're not that much more durable. Not 6 points worth in my opinion. The Defender I thought was even more unimpressive and then I played with it and the white K-turn was a gamechanger, so who knows. Just haven't seen them do much of anything beside Etahn.
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Jul 9, 2014 02:53
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Etahn's the big seller for me, but I've found myself barrel-rolling a LOT; it's really useful for getting shots/getting Etahn into arc for his bonus, especially if you're rolling with a fire-control for buffing offense and don't need to focus as much. 3 shields over 2 makes them less crit-susceptible, the 3 evades is pretty great (though obviously somewhat unreliable, as dice can be). I like being able to 5-straight. I dunno, maybe I"m talking myself into it/them, but they're growing on me a lot. Maybe I'll get rolled hard with them at the next tournament, but they're fun so far.
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Jul 9, 2014 03:12
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Lemon Curdistan posted:e; in other news, I caved and bought a Firespray-31 today. I don't know how I'll fit it in a 100 point list but some of the stuff you can do with it and Krassis/Kath with a Merc Copilot look really, really fun. The list I'm planning on taking to nationals is : code:...and yes, tactician works out of both firing arcs. midge fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 04:17
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Thundercloud posted:Well I finally bit the bullet and bought the starter set, an A-wing and Defender. I've got a second starter set, Tie, Tie Int, Tie Advanced and Y-wing on the way. That's the storage box I bought, and it works great - holds everything but my large/huge ships with room to spare.
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Jul 9, 2014 05:58
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Reindeer Flotilla posted:That's the storage box I bought, and it works great - holds everything but my large/huge ships with room to spare. Which large ships do you have? I managed to fit a falcon, 2 firesprays and a shuttle in mine.
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Jul 9, 2014 06:14
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Reindeer Flotilla posted:That's the storage box I bought, and it works great - holds everything but my large/huge ships with room to spare. Now I just need to find it in the UK. Anybody got a link?
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Jul 9, 2014 06:32
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alg posted:Howlrunner is pretty much better than anything Rebels can put up, when it comes to force multipliers. By a huge margin. The point is the Rebels have far more pilots with interesting abilities that affect the whole list whereas the Imperials are stuck with getting lots of pilots whose abilities just give themselves a boost, or Howlrunner who is conducive to running swarm lists and not much else. I'd like to see them print Imperial equivalents of Biggs or Dutch or whatever, so that list-building becomes more varied and interesting. It's much more fun building a four ship list with three named pilots whose abilities boost each other in fun and interesting ways than "Holwrunner, fill rest of points with Academy pilots, fly in formation." midge posted:The list I'm planning on taking to nationals is : Yeah, I'd be tempted to run something like that if I want to use it at 100 points, but I find mini TIE swarms kind of boring. I was mulling over Boba + Navigator last night, just because for 42 points you have a decent dogfighter with lots of HP and the ability to flip any bank manoeuvre to any other bank manoeuvre when you reveal your dial, which is pretty crazy. A bit lacking in offensive power (but not that much, with two arcs that fire at 3 dice), but you should be able to go pretty much wherever you want towards the end of the activation phase and shoot even when facing away from the enemy. If they go for Boba, you have 58 points of other stuff that can shoot them; if they forget Boba, he can run circles around them while they're shooting your other ships. e; man, FFG's customer service rocks. One of the Interceptors I bought was damage in the box (the damage wasn't visible from the outside), I submitted a request Saturday and I don't know when they updated it, but it looks like they're just going to send me a replacement Interceptor. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 11:25 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 08:39
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After Wave 4, I find it hard to say that Imperials are starved for choice. Sure, one of the best yardsticks for squad building is the tried and true TIE Swarm, and Howlrunner is obviously the best vehicle to achieve an effective TIE Swarm. I agree, the Imperials do lack a 'teamwork' style pilots, but they do certainly make up for it in 'ace' style pilots. Thinking about it, the Imperials have always consistently had a greater amount of better individual pilots compared to the Rebels. The asymmetrical styles of the different factions are pretty great and I'd really hate to just have "Imp Biggs" or "Rebel Darth Vader"Cracken technically. Also, in regards to "Imp Biggs", technically you could always chuck Draw Their Fire on a Black SQ. TIE. It's really just my two cents, and I have definitely thought about how if I want to run a swarm of ships I need to consider paying "Howlrunner Tax". I think more options would be neat but I don't really want to overlap and have symmetrical abilities.
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Jul 9, 2014 12:57
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Lemon Curdistan posted:The point is the Rebels have far more pilots with interesting abilities that affect the whole list whereas the Imperials are stuck with getting lots of pilots whose abilities just give themselves a boost, or Howlrunner who is conducive to running swarm lists and not much else. You mean like Darth Vader + Squad Leader? Or Captain Jonus? Captain Yorr, or Colonel Jendon? Just because Imperial pilots don't do the same things as Rebel pilots doesn't mean they don't have as many options. Howlrunner happens to be the best support ship in the game, so Imperial players run her. It would be boring to just start getting new pilots with the same abilities as enemy pilots.
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Jul 9, 2014 13:10
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Leo Showers posted:It's really just my two cents, and I have definitely thought about how if I want to run a swarm of ships I need to consider paying "Howlrunner Tax". I think more options would be neat but I don't really want to overlap and have symmetrical abilities. Yeah - I don't want them to literally print Biggs' ability on an Imperial pilot (though I wouldn't complain if they did  ), I want an Imperial pilot that can similarly fill the role of helping keep your important named pilots alive (and isn't putting Draw Their Fire on a 3 hull, 0 shield Black Squadron TIE). I have no idea what they could print that would do this without stepping on Biggs' toes, though.edit: actually, how about something like "at the start of the combat phase, you can reduce your agility by 1 and increase the agility of a ship within range 1 by 1?" That's not Biggs but it would do something similar. Maybe have it give you 1 stress, too. alg posted:You mean like Darth Vader + Squad Leader? Or Captain Jonus? Captain Yorr, or Colonel Jendon? Just because Imperial pilots don't do the same things as Rebel pilots doesn't mean they don't have as many options. I don't want to have a big a argument, but they definitely don't seem to have as many options. Just for a quick comparison, here are all the pilots on each side with team-oriented abilities (that either buff other friendlies or debuff enemies): Rebel: Etahn A'baht, Roark Garnet, Kyle Katarn, Jan Ors, Biggs Darklighter, Garven Dreiss, Wes Jansen, Lando Calrissian, Dutch Vander, Airen Cracken Imperial: Kath Scarlett, Captain Yorr, Colonel Jendon, Captain Kagi, Captain Jonus, Howlrunner, Carnor Jax There's also Vader indirectly (Squad Leader). As you can see, the Rebels have quite a few more pilots with team-oriented abilities, plus astromechs that combo well with pilot skills (like Tarn + R7 or Dutch + R5-K6). I'm saying it would have been nice to have one or two of the TIE Fighter/Interceptor named pilots provide buffs/debuffs, rather than all the Interceptor pilots and nearly all the TIE ones being "ace" types that don't synergise with other pilots. Especially since Imperials don't get astromechs or (for the most part) secondary weapons, so list-building for them is a lot more straightforward. I'm also not saying the game is unbalanced or anything, just that I'd like list-building for the Imperials to be a bit more interesting. 
Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 13:48
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Yeah, I'd be tempted to run something like that if I want to use it at 100 points, but I find mini TIE swarms kind of boring. Yep, they are. But no other combination of Imperial ships with Boba has the firepower to bring down 2 Falcons before dying itself. Fettigator is an actual thing
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Jul 9, 2014 15:15
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Carnor Jax also debuffs enemy pilots. I can sort of see what you're saying, but it's fun to have an asymmetrical game that is pretty balanced. Obviously Howlrunner + a swarm is an easy setup, but a lot of the Rebel pilots you listed aren't competitive, either. It's more thematic for the Empire/Dark Side to have dudes who are in it for themselves than to be sacrificing for teammates, just like the Rebels help each other out with their actions but don't get amazing solo stuff like Dark Curse or Echo. It's fun to make choices when you don't have the best of both worlds available to you (and even then, Howlrunner is still the best support ship in the game).
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Jul 9, 2014 15:25
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alg posted:Carnor Jax also debuffs enemy pilots. Good point, I forgot about him. Anyway, adding more team-oriented pilots to the Imperial side wouldn't make the game any less asymmetrical - both sides would still have totally different ships and pilots. I do wish Howlrunner hadn't been as good as she is, though (like, 90% of the tournament-winning Imperial lists I've seen run Howl + four TIEs).
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Jul 9, 2014 21:30
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zVxTeflon posted:Which large ships do you have? I managed to fit a falcon, 2 firesprays and a shuttle in mine. 2 Falcons, 2 Firesprays, 2 shuttles, and a transport - ended up picking up a foam box for them, and putting the pilot cards and plastic bases in the bigger sections on the side.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:31
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TouchToneDialing posted:The best way to teach a group is probably doing 40 point free for all games. The goal is to destroy 60 points of ships. Its non-elimination because once your ship gets blown up you just re-deploy within range 1 of the edge, but not within range 3 of any other player's ship. If you setup a bunch of squads before hand you can even let people switch squads during the game. Do you have any other rules or variants to suggest for this? I want my xwing group at work to try this and it seemed interesting. Any reason for those point totals?
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Jul 9, 2014 21:47
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40 is pretty typical in one ship free-for-all formats. It lets you get pretty much any fighter size ship, potentially with a lot of upgrades- or at least it did, before wave 4. 60 seems like a decent point total for what you need to kill as it'll probably mean taking out two separate opponents. Running 40 points, with multiple ships means you're probably running a pair, which lets you get some synergy, but not a full squad's worth. If you go lower than 40, you'll see fewer upgrades, fewer named pilots. Higher and it means you'll just price some ships out of the game altogether.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:51
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Sigma-X posted:Do you have any other rules or variants to suggest for this? I want my xwing group at work to try this and it seemed interesting. Any reason for those point totals? Heres the whole thing. The scoring is different but you can score it whichever way you want. Star Wars Miniatures Toronto X-wing Free-for-All Furball rules v2.0 Last Updated Jan 30 2014 ===== Objective ======================================================================== Each player controls one ship, and attempts to score the most points within the allotted time or round limit. Players respawn when destroyed. Suggested Time Limit: 2 hours or 15 rounds. ===== Preparation ====================================================================== Each player brings a 40pt squad, but is limited to using only one ship (plus upgrades). Unlike the Fantasy Flight Furball format, there is no restriction on using large ships, though their high point costs limit which pilots you can field. Alternatively, the Event Organizer pre-builds all the squads and players will take turns drafting them. See Variants below. ===== Board Setup / Ship Deployment =================================================== 1) Determine Initiative: The player with the lowest point total has initiative. If there is a tie, all tied players roll off to set initiative at start of game. Initiative never changes players. 2) ships arrive on the table in order of pilot skill, following modified deployment restrictions: Ships must deploy within range 1 of the edge (facing any direction), but must not be within range 3 of any other player's ship. However, in larger games the table may be so crowded that you can't deploy further than range 3 from an opponent. In this case, deploy the furthest distance you can. ===== Play Sequence =================================================================== 1) Placement / Respawn phase (see Respawns below) 2) Set Dials, as normal 3) Activation Phase, as normal 4) Combat Phase, as normal During play, points are awarded for the following: 10pts = Deal 1 face-down damage card, or remove 1 shield token from an enemy ship. 25pts = Deal 1 face-up damage card to an enemy ship 40pts = Destroy an enemy ship We use the paper money from Star Wars Monopoly, but any scorekeeping method or currency with the above denominations will suffice. Scoring Example: Your X-wing's attack roll is 3 dice which come up Hit, Hit, Critical Hit. Your opponent's TIE Interceptor rolls only blanks on it's defense dice and explodes. You score 10+10+25+40 = 85pts. Scoring for Suicides/Leaving the Table: If your ship flies off the table (including via Ion Cannon), or is destroyed by flying into an asteroid, the last player to damage it scores points for a kill (40pts). If no other player damaged the ship, you lose 40pts. ===== Respawns ========================================================================= Destroyed ships respawn to rejoin the fight at the beginning of the following round before maneuvers are chosen. If multiple ships rejoin the fight in the same round, they deploy in order of pilot skill. When a ship respawns, flip all of its upgrades face-up; they may be used again this life (this helps encourage play with missiles, etc). Respawn Placement restrictions: When a ship respawns, it may deploy ANYWHERE on the table with any facing, but it must not be within range 3 of any other player's ship. ===== Variant Rules =================================================================== Rotating Squads Format: Each player brings several different squads. When a player re-enters the fight, they may change squads. Squad Pool Format: This format is ideal for casual/convention games with non-Xwing players. 1) All squads are pooled (event organizer might build some or all of them beforehand) 2) Players roll off to choose squads and then spawn in pilot order as usual. 3) When a player's squad is destroyed, return those ships to the pool and choose another squad. This way, players will rotate through squads and try different ships throughout the match. Multiple Ship Format: Players are not restricted to one ship in their 40-point build. This opens up the Furball format for TIE Fighter builds, but beware that it will slow down the game if there are many players. Due to the diminishing returns on a multi-ship build, the following Retreat rule should also be used: When your squad is down to one ship at the end of a round, you may voluntarily retreat even if nowhere near the table edge. No players gain or lose points via this action. Respawn with a new squad.* *We haven't played this variant very much, so be careful using this rule and let us know if you find it to be exploitable.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:08
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I saw that a bunch of this stuff is cheap on CSI, so I dropped fifty bucks on a core set, an Interceptor, and a Phantom. The package is still in Florida, but I've got my clueless game plan going; Echo + Veteran Instincts(proxy) + Advanced Cloaking Device Soontir Fel + Push The Limit(proxy) + Shield Upgrade(proxy) Dark Curse Night Beast Where the idea is that Echo and Soontir use their mobility and high skill to line up shots in relative safety, and the two TIEs just roll around and generally make a nuisance of themselves to help pin down targets. If I can't use proxies then I'll give Echo marksman instead, and also attach a tactician to him I suppose? I haven't actually played before so I'm sure what'll actually happen is I'll spend my time bumbling around and exploding. e: vvv Oh yeah, I guess while I'm cheating and writing skills down on sticky notes I can grab the Real poo poo. Heatwizard fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 06:56
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You really, really want Push the Limit on Soontir. If there is one pilot that really shines with PtL, it's him.
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Jul 10, 2014 07:51
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You could also downgrade Night Beast to an Obsidian Squadron and slap Royal Guard Interceptor and a Targeting Computer on Fel. Being able to Boost/Barrel Roll + PtL Target Lock and end up with a TL and a Focus token really helps land those shots when you're not at range 1, and you can still Boost/Roll/Evade + PtL Focus (to end up with two Focus and one Evade/two Focus and having repositioned) when you're in danger of getting shot at. e; anyone have experience flying Carnor Jax in a swarm? I've seen a bunch of swarm lists with Jax in them, I'd like to know if the idea is to fly him in formation and get him to range 1 with the swarm (which seems like he'd get shot quickly), or if you roam with him and try to get to range 1 from behind/the side at the same time as the TIEs get there (which seems finnicky). Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 11:58 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 09:31
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My final list for regionals tomorrow. Gulp. http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/98673/binayre-consignment
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Jul 12, 2014 05:03
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Somebody over on the FFG forums posted pics of the boxes for the two wave 5 ships we know about so far, which I don't think I've seen posted anywhere else yet: 
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Jul 12, 2014 16:40
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Outrider!  Having just gone through the Shadows of the Empire LP again, i'm a true believer in Our Lord and Saviour N64 Dash Rendar 
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Jul 12, 2014 17:43
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overdesigned posted:Somebody over on the FFG forums posted pics of the boxes for the two wave 5 ships we know about so far, which I don't think I've seen posted anywhere else yet: These got spoiled about a month ago. Honestly I'm not mega excited for either of them because I have enough ships, I didn't play Star Wars Galaxies and I'm not a Dash Rendar fan. If you want some of the card spoilers they are here http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_news.asp?eidn=4869
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Jul 13, 2014 00:30
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Do we have any idea what the other two wave 5 releases are going to be (assuming there's four like previous waves), yet?
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Jul 13, 2014 00:48
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Do we have any idea what the other two wave 5 releases are going to be (assuming there's four like previous waves), yet? We don't know that there are 4. Wouldn't be surprised if it's just those two, they need to spread out releases if they don't want to become Attack Wing. The box pics are new, Outrider is gonna own.
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Jul 13, 2014 01:09
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So, in ways I can't posssibly fathom, I ended up purchasing a core set of this. I'm decidning to go Rebel Alliance, at least as far as initial purchase go. I've ordered for the Moldy Crow, because Katarn and Ors, and because I played the Dark Forces serie until the cds were worn out, and a B wing, because I always liked this ship. What should I buy next?
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Jul 13, 2014 10:53
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Iceclaw posted:What should I buy next? Get one X-wing so you have two with the cards from both the starter set and X-wing blister, for sure. You'll also definitely want Rebel Aces when it's out, for extra options for your B-wing (as well as getting a second B-wing). After that, you might want to grab one A-wing (so you have the cards from that and two A-wings total with the one from Rebel Aces). Or at least, that's what I'm planning on doing.
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Jul 13, 2014 11:56
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Iceclaw posted:So, in ways I can't posssibly fathom, I ended up purchasing a core set of this. I'm decidning to go Rebel Alliance, at least as far as initial purchase go. I've ordered for the Moldy Crow, because Katarn and Ors, and because I played the Dark Forces serie until the cds were worn out, and a B wing, because I always liked this ship. What should I buy next? You will definitely want the Falcon.
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Jul 13, 2014 13:09
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midge posted:My final list for regionals tomorrow. Gulp. Came in top 8 at my first event. Fairly convinced I should I been top 4. I played a guy with marked dice and a really odd way of "rolling" the dice. He'd have them in his hand, look at them, close his hand and shake them up, look at them again before tossing them out. Put it this way, 2 lists that made the top 8 only managed to kill 3 of his headhunters across 2 games; one of those games being 4 B-Wings and a Z-95 which was the only other list I lost to that day and it lit the gently caress out of me. 2 other players watched the game with me and mentioned that exactly the same thing happened in their games with him. Know I know luck when I see it and luck doesn't typically last all day. More so when you are rocking nothing but Z-95s. Overall I like my list, it's not a hard and fast counter to any particular enemy. You have to be a little tricky in the way you fly it, which suits me. Kath was never destroyed. midge fucked around with this message at 14:45 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 14:23
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That's...really odd. When you say marked dice, like, he drew on the standard FFG dice with a marker/paint or something? You might have a case for him using non-tourney-legal dice in that case, if you wanted to go that far about it--dice aren't on the list of things you can customize. Anyway that sucks, but cool to hear you at least placed top 8.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:25
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midge posted:Came in top 8 at my first event. Fairly convinced I should I been top 4. I played a guy with marked dice and a really odd way of "rolling" the dice. He'd have them in his hand, look at them, close his hand and shake them up, look at them again before tossing them out. Put it this way, 2 lists that made the top 8 only managed to kill 3 of his headhunters across 2 games; one of those games being 4 B-Wings and a Z-95 which was the only other list I lost to that day and it lit the gently caress out of me. 2 other players watched the game with me and mentioned that exactly the same thing happened in their games with him. Know I know luck when I see it and luck doesn't typically last all day. More so when you are rocking nothing but Z-95s. What the hell. I'm really easy going but at regionals that guy can gently caress off. Should've said something.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:31
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Yeah, congrats for placing top 8 - I'm playing around with a similar list so it's nice to know it works. Also, I'd see about having a word with the TO - there might be nothing they can do now, but you never know.
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Jul 13, 2014 16:49
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There's clowns like this in every game scene - They're usually so morally absent they don't even realise how bad the thing they're doing is, and they're just relying on the embarrassment factor that people won't call them out on it. The moment they are, they invariably shut the gently caress up and play nicely, but they're also shallow enough that you'll see them doing it to someone else later. To steal a 40k Grand Tournamentism - They need to be punched in the stomach and have their army case stolen.
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Jul 13, 2014 20:22
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