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RiotGearEpsilon posted:Supernal abilities interest me. I'm prone to char-op shenanigans myself, but it's clear that the charm tree are written with the Supernal capability in mind. I'm eager to see how it plays out. I have no idea how that'll be. My issue is that I don't really want the big E3 or E5 charms to be written under the consideration that someone could get them early. Some people may disagree with me on this though, citing a need for E3 or E5 charms to not be too ridiculous.
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Jul 9, 2014 03:58
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Thesaurasaurus posted:It's surprising to us that any forum except the OPP official boards aren't permitting discussion, because their walled garden strategy for engaging (or not engaging, I should say) with the playerbase is frankly idiotic. The only reason that RPG.net isn't is because it's moderated by the same people who run the OPP official boards. Any decision they make effecting their private boards is going to effect RPG.net too.
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Jul 9, 2014 08:43
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Now we're getting into tin-foil-hat conspiracy theorist territory. The RPG.net mods are perfectly capable of shutting down discussion about illegal releases without needing to be beholden to the executive decisions of OPP. If we want to harp on the yet-unreleased 3E, there's better things to point out than the fact they're not willing to plaster their unfinished drafts to the winds just so [generic]you can be part of the playtest. Like the fact that whoever are writing down ideas for Charms did not immediately realize that giving you a 1.5 multiplier to XP in Socialize was a terrible idea, or that being allow to restat your character instantly as you see fit is a terribly broken power. Or that they have no concept of statistics, and therefore thinks that a Charm that lets you add successes for every triplet of dice above your TN (e.g. 8-8-8 adds another success) is a waste of XP. Or we could drag out some old stuff about Hatewheel's attitude to women, or the Abyssal It's not like the devs are giving us anything else to chew on. 
LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 10:05 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 10:03
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RPZip posted:The only reason that RPG.net isn't is because it's moderated by 
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Jul 9, 2014 11:16
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I backed off the kickstarter when the fuckghosts thing dropped, and while I know people who are desperately hopeful that Exalted will be good... I don't really regret my decision.
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Jul 9, 2014 11:32
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RPZip posted:The only reason that RPG.net isn't is because it's moderated by the same people who run the OPP official boards. Any decision they make effecting their private boards is going to effect RPG.net too.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:19
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Collaborator! E: Don't post when overtired and upset about something else, kids.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:26
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It's not endorsing piracy to allow discussion of things that can be pirated. Here on SA we're free to discuss the contents of the leak, we're just not allowed to, like, post torrent links. The alternative is discussions filled with people who've read the leak and are in effect discussing its contents but who are forced to endlessly dance around that fact to no one's actual benefit.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:30
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Ettin posted:The only reason that RPG.net isn't is because it's moderated by I'm pretty sure you can discuss and show parts of leaks without legal punishment or pretty much any site covering tabletop or videogames is in legal hot water of some sort, including this one.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:31
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Ferrinus posted:It's not endorsing piracy to allow discussion of things that can be pirated. Here on SA we're free to discuss the contents of the leak, we're just not allowed to, like, post torrent links. The alternative is discussions filled with people who've read the leak and are in effect discussing its contents but who are forced to endlessly dance around that fact to no one's actual benefit.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:49
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A friend of mine ran a brief combat playtest with the leak. The opinions of the players were basically that the game is fun, with a few interesting new tweaks (people enjoy the initiative system but worry that the Gambit maneuever is probably too important to avoid alpha-strike crashes), and the primary thing they found weak was charms that rely on the results of the STs roll, since having to ask the ST how many 1s and 2s he rolled for stuff like Hail Shattering Practice clunks up the model of counting successes and moving on. ..hey wow that was playtesting and feedback.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:14
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theironjef posted:A friend of mine ran a brief combat playtest with the leak. The opinions of the players were basically that the game is fun, with a few interesting new tweaks (people enjoy the initiative system but worry that the Gambit maneuever is probably too important to avoid alpha-strike crashes), and the primary thing they found weak was charms that rely on the results of the STs roll, since having to ask the ST how many 1s and 2s he rolled for stuff like Hail Shattering Practice clunks up the model of counting successes and moving on.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:43
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Nessus posted:HOW DARE YOU, YOU CRIMINAL STOP! YOU'VE VIOLATED THE LAW!
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Jul 9, 2014 21:53
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Oh I get it, you think "a friend" is a euphemism for "me" but it isn't. I'm too lazy to test an unfinished game. I should definitely report them to the authorities for their transgressions. I have an airtight alibi for that exact day, I was sleeping in my yard alone between fitful rounds of playing Marvel Heroes and drinking.
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Jul 9, 2014 21:59
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Nessus posted:HOW DARE YOU, YOU CRIMINAL Copyright violation is a civil offense, not a criminal one. /themoreyouknow
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Jul 9, 2014 22:00
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I have a canned worm question that has nothing to do with 3e! Enjoy! Or sneer, whichever is more comfortable. With the old-timey Eclipse anima for 2.5, what charms are worth the extra XP / mote expenditure? Let's presume for the sake of argument that I'm okay with breaking the game and being a jerk, but that the more readily available a charm is, the better. And by "available" I mean due to being low on a charm tree, or from a readily obtained source (i.e. a summoned demon instead of, say, an Incarna's personal aide). Obviously there are the usual suspects like Dematerialize or Principle of Motion and those other terribly designed and implemented spirit charms from the corebook, but what else is out there?
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Jul 10, 2014 17:20
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I have a canned worm question that has nothing to do with 3e! Enjoy! Or sneer, whichever is more comfortable. The big ones are abyssal mirrors that do the same thing but are separate charms, therefor stacking if I remember. Permanent charms are always a plus due to not having to pay the 2m surcharge, and spirit charms like the one that lets you dematerialize, sidereal anything etc. Also, mirror charms counted for prereqs with charm-share I think, so they had even more reason to do so. edit: oh yeah, Wind Carried Words was essential, it may not have the range it once did since 2.5, but if you have the general area they are in you can spam a target with presence attacks from miles away. Ash Rose fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 18:40
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I have a canned worm question that has nothing to do with 3e! Enjoy! Or sneer, whichever is more comfortable. Essence Plethora and Reserve of Will are fantastic, obviously. Sheathing the Material Form can be fantastic because it's a 1:1 trade for motes to Bashing/Lethal Soak as an Eclipse with the first dot costing 3 instead of 1, which is less efficient then say Durability of Oak if you only get hit once but since it's Scenelong it eventually becomes more efficient. Even if it's a 3:1 trade for each one it's still barely less efficient then Lunar Soak charms. This requires finding a pretty good God to get one though, because it depends on Domains, but a Bloody Hand's Sheathing The Material Form works on 'Weapons' and Bloody Hands aren't exactly rare so you can grab that. Measure the Wind is real good. Benefaction gives you a free Dice, which can be good but might not be entirely worth it. Touch of Grace is actually more reliable then Solar Healing Charms because you don't have to roll for it. It does say you have to be able to heal the target completely to do it at all but it doesn't say you HAVE to do that. It also doesn't work against 'damage of a Supernatural Nature', but that's extremely vague and all it says in the book itself is 'Aggravated Damage', so it's hard to say what exactly is 'Supernatural' Damage. It also heals Poison, Crippling, and Sickness, all for a single charm. Each one of those is a separate charm purchase and expenditure for a Solar Medicine Twilight. All of these actually all come from the same charmtree that I picked because I knew Sheathing the Material Form was in it and that one was good.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:43
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On another note, I've been dealing with a really loving retarded Exalted fan, and can understand who Holden would hate them. What are they really loving retarded about? quote:Alchemicals and Infernals are the worst things to ever happen to second edition. It shows how much the authors favored those two splats by making them actually interesting, and ruined the entire setting and every game of Exalted. If they were going to write lunars so lovely, they should have made all of the splats that lovely, and kept some consistency, instead of making their pet projects better. It shows a lack of care for the product line that they'd make two splats more interesting than all the rest, and a huge amount of inability to be professional When I talked about how, hey, maybe trying to improve the line and make it interesting was a good thing? quote:Nope, they hosed up the edition from the moment they decided to poo poo out something half assed for Lunars, and should have stuck by that so that at least the game had consistency.  Edit: can we just purge lunars from the setting, everyone who likes them seems to be loving retarded. Edit2: This same person also things that Shards of the Exalted Dream is literally the third worst thing to ever come out, that Resonance is good as it is and that 'playing a good guy in a bad guy splat SHOULD be punished by the ST', and that Infernals should be forced to keep the rape origin and all that poo poo, because it 'makes sense for people who want to play an evil splat' KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 20:20 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 20:13
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A lot of people think exactly like that guy. What's worse is that if someone hasn't played the game before, that's the kind of person they end up listening to and playing just like them. Or end up in games with them.
Vadoc fucked around with this message at 20:35 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 20:30
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Shards wasn't bad or anything but it is totally true that later parts of the edition became The Infernals Show to the detriment of some other splats. I'm not saying that Infernals should have been bad or worse designed or anything, but there is some truth to the idea that Infernals (and some Solar stuff) kind of sucked up all the focus of the dev team at the end of the line.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:40
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Stallion Cabana posted:I'm not saying that Infernals should have been bad or worse designed or anything, but there is some truth to the idea that Infernals (and some Solar stuff) kind of sucked up all the focus of the dev team at the end of the line. Yeah, Infernals were designed to work around all the problems of the 2.0 rules, which made them a lot easier to design for, and also they defined the new scale of 2.0 Exalted, which was honestly also kind of designed around the fact that the part of the rules dealing with the original scale of the game were horrifyingly borked.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:43
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I, honestly, don't see the "Infernal Show" complaints. Infernals got what? CoCD: Malfeas and Broken Winged Crane, along with their base book? I mean, Broken Winged Crane was really good, but I don't see having an extra book over the other Exalt types as being Infernal Show. Infernal Show mainly came from the fact that the fandom itself liked them, and a ton of non-official poo poo came out for them almost daily on the forums due to that. I don't think it sucked up too much time. But that's just my opinion on it. I do think the Infernals were partners with the Yozi Show that the late game threats all were, though. Due to the Yozi being the main threat in what, two or three Shards, Infernals were thus the main antagonists, so they got spotlight there, then there was the whole Rise of the Scarlet Empress 'yozis win' thing... But I don't understand bitching about that kind of stuff, especially since 2.5 did try to help make other splats sort of interesting and good mechanically, and certainly took more time than any of the infernals stuff did. Edit: Basically, it feels like, to me, that most of the complaints about Infernals (and Alchemicals) stem from the idea of 'my splat I like wasn't as good as the one made by people who knew what they were doing', which is pretty lame. KittyEmpress fucked around with this message at 20:58 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 20:54
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KittyEmpress posted:I, honestly, don't see the "Infernal Show" complaints. Infernals got what? CoCD: Malfeas and Broken Winged Crane, along with their base book? I mean, Broken Winged Crane was really good, but I don't see having an extra book over the other Exalt types as being Infernal Show. You're forgetting Return of the Scarlet Empress, in which Infernals took over the world. Also Infernals got significantly more Ink Monkeys attention for most of the blogs run. (This was because they had a lot of cut material lying around, but I can see why people go the impression that they were dev favorites.)
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Jul 12, 2014 21:11
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You kind of outlined exactly what I was talking about in your own statement though? For example, Infernals are probably 50-60% of the entire Ink Monkeys collection. I'm fairly certain they have more charms then Solars got, and if they don't they definitely have the second most after Solars. There's also a ton of unpublished/won't be published Infernals stuff that apparently Neph was making that just never got put out, including charm trees for more Yozi. Infernals got a lot of stuff, all things considered. You brought up some stuff, but you left out Return of the Scarlet Empress and Shards. Like, I don't know for sure but I am curious, were there any books published after Infernals were Infernals weren't given more focus then other Exalts when possible? As you said, Yozi, and especially the Ebon Dragon, quickly turned into the 'true evil' of the setting who should always be the final boss, which meant that the Infernals got the same stuff because Infernals used Yozi Charms. I mean, the Ebon Dragon showed up in Compass; Autochthonia. You bring up Shards, and to look at Shards as a direct prospective, it's like this; Modern Exalted; Ran by the Infernals, who showed up everyone Gunstar Autocthonia; Yozi Win, Infernals are a massive fleet of terror, so again, Infernals Win Heaven's Reach; Lunars win Burn Legend; No real setting. So half the book in shards are taken up by the Infernals being the top dog, including a brand new set of Yozi Charms for Former Malfeas along with the stuff in the back of the book. The Fandom did bring more stuff up about Infernals, yes, especially on the WW forums, where you could barely make a topic without someone changing it to be about Infernals, especially stuff like 'I'm trying to make a character as X exalt', where a common response would be 'Well the first thing you should do is make an Infernal instead', but the writers took that and gave the Infernals more space in stuff because of it, and it did damage other splats. 2.5 is kind of interesting because 2.5 actually destroyed Infernals, as they were built on a 2E framework and they didn't get much errata, but Lunars and DBs didn't get much either, most of the errata was focused on Solars and Sidereals, Solars because they're the main splat published in Core, and Sidereals because they were extremely hard to play.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:14
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I think one issue that lead to Infernals winning so much in Shards is that... the only other villain splat couldn't really win and still leave a setting. A setting where the Deathlords/abyssals won would no longer exist. Infernals fill the role of 'villains that can be fought against even if they won', which makes them a lot easier to let 'win'
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Jul 12, 2014 23:08
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KittyEmpress posted:
mistaya posted:While I won't argue that the are mechanically weaker than other splats, mainly due to Mirror being horrible, can we stop saying 'The only people who play THIS splat are gross and belong in the cat-piss thread'? Seriously, there's some cool designspace there, it's just been criminally-underexplored, or eclipsed by some egregiously-offensive elements (you all know which ones I mean). I know dev after dev has said before that they can't be all that effectual, or else why isn't the world fixed already, but really, this is a bad consideration because "If something is worth doing and within your power then a much-stronger, much-cooler Elder of your splat would have done it already" is a loving toxic conceit to write and/or play around.
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Jul 12, 2014 23:37
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Thesaurasaurus posted:Seriously, there's some cool designspace there, it's just been criminally-underexplored, or eclipsed by some egregiously-offensive elements (you all know which ones I mean). I know dev after dev has said before that they can't be all that effectual, or else why isn't the world fixed already, but really, this is a bad consideration because "If something is worth doing and within your power then a much-stronger, much-cooler Elder of your splat would have done it already" is a loving toxic conceit to write and/or play around. That kind of "if something is possible it must be easy, if something is easy {X} NPC must have done it already, all things are either done by NPCs or impossible" progression gets stuck in the fandoms of a lot of ttrpgs despite how obviously silly it is. The spoilers about Lunars spending their time running Pole countries AND messing with the Realm AND dismembering Sidereals AND whatever other things, as well as the general narrowing of power tiers should help reintroduce "actually, things are hard" w/r/t them. Should help the Sidereals too, since the other problem they had aside from their nigh-unplayable mechanics problems was the fact that the main presented choices for PCs were * Help/manipulate Solars! * Kill/manipulate Solars! It'd be nice if the Sidereals book that'll come out in the grim far future of humanity had some deeper exploration of what a Sidereal might do when they aren't dealing with the other splats.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:04
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Dammit Who? posted:It'd be nice if the Sidereals book that'll come out in the grim far future of humanity had some deeper exploration of what a Sidereal might do when they aren't dealing with the other splats. Yeah, all too often the Sids of editions past felt more like Mandatory White Wolf Fun-Police than a faction of demigods with drives and goals and ambitions of their own.
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Jul 13, 2014 00:12
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Entire hunks of creation where the Loom for that area has tenuous connections with the rest of Creation. For exploitation or repair. Strange ad-hoc Looms built in Bordermarches. Infiltrating the bureau of nature to revive Weather Warfare. Oceans Eleven-style raid on any Sidereal office of your choice. Long cons on corrupt censors. Celestial Politics. 'Nuf said! Playing any of the above with the addition of tickets to the Games of Divinities as celestial crack dealers. Proactive attacks on those outside of Fate. Proactive alliances with those outside of Fate. Sidereals trapped in Malfeas sounds like a great campaign. Pretty much any campaign that lets you play havoc with the local rules of reality sounds awesome to me. I now want a whole Sideral mechanic around building temporary looms and loving with causality. In order to cheat like no one has ever cheated before, of course.
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Jul 13, 2014 02:34
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Mile'ionaha posted:Entire hunks of creation where the Loom for that area has tenuous connections with the rest of Creation. For exploitation or repair. See, these are all really cool things to base campaigns around. Why can't Sids get powers to help with them, instead of the power to turn your animal BFF into an rear end in a top hat bureaucrat who snitches on you, or the power to give people Magic Erectile Dysfunction with no save?
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Jul 13, 2014 02:55
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Thesaurasaurus posted:See, these are all really cool things to base campaigns around. Why can't Sids get powers to help with them, instead of the power to turn your animal BFF into an rear end in a top hat bureaucrat who snitches on you, or the power to give people Magic Erectile Dysfunction with no save? Arguably Sidereal powers help with the things on that list as much as they do anything else.
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Jul 13, 2014 02:59
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Except half their powers don't work in Hell or the underworld.
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Jul 13, 2014 03:03
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Rand Brittain posted:Arguably Sidereal powers help with the things on that list as much as they do anything else. Mile'ionaha posted:Except half their powers don't work in Hell or the underworld. Ah, so Shun the Smiling Lady is their version of detente, eh? Mutually-Assured Dysfunction?
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Jul 13, 2014 03:12
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Shun the Smiling Lady is a great power for ruining someone's day, which would be wonderful if Heaven ever sent them a brief saying: "See that guy? Go ruin his day. Really make him cry." And okay, maybe sometimes that happens. But not very often.
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Jul 13, 2014 03:17
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Thesaurasaurus posted:Yeah, all too often the Sids of editions past felt more like Mandatory White Wolf Fun-Police than a faction of demigods with drives and goals and ambitions of their own. What I'd *really* like is an expansion of the Bronze/Gold factions into general philosophies of intervention rather than just a reaction to the Solars, where you could kind of reductively call the Bronzes "reformists" and the Golds "revolutionaries". Bronze Faction posted:Creation is beset on all sides. The power structures we've built aren't perfect, but they're still our strongest lines of defense against dissolution and chaos. We dare not endanger the progress we've made by pitting our strength against itself. We can and must weed out evil and corruption, counsel the wise, marginalize the foolish, and bring forth a more perfect Creation without once lowering our guard. Each day that dawns will show us one step closer to victory. Gold Faction posted:The history of the past Age is one of long decay. We've had enough bitter lessons to teach us that reformism can only slow this decay, not halt it. Desperate times call for desperate measures, and we must have the courage to recognize this. Where nations have failed their people, we will raise up new and better ones. Where Creation loses ground to its enemies, we will be the hidden hand that drives them back. The perfect defense is a perfect offense. Really, every splat should have room for a Circle of PCs doing the wandering justice-samurai thing as the absolute base-level campaign idea. Like a Sidereal Circle picks out a section of the Threshold riddled with scavenger warlords as their "beat", and over the course of a campaign picks a likely leader of a slave rebellion to back, arranges for the betrayal and murder of the more vicious warlords, seals off shadowlands, and so on. With expanded faction philosophies you might have a situation where a Bronze Sidereal would covertly support an Eclipse diplomat but try to divert or kill a Dawn general, that kind of thing. Having the various apocalypses-in-holding-pattern from 2e removed, it actually becomes possible for the players of a group of Sidereals to pick their own priorities, which is nice.
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Jul 13, 2014 05:26
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Just got done testing out the 3E combat system with two dawn castes rolling pure melee trees and the results were interesting so I thought I'd post some odd thoughts here so I can get feedback from you guys.
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Jul 13, 2014 06:39
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Dammit Who? posted:What I'd *really* like is an expansion of the Bronze/Gold factions into general philosophies of intervention rather than just a reaction to the Solars, where you could kind of reductively call the Bronzes "reformists" and the Golds "revolutionaries". Not that that's bad, of course, it's actually rather interesting.
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Jul 13, 2014 06:48
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Dammit Who? posted:That kind of "if something is possible it must be easy, if something is easy {X} NPC must have done it already, all things are either done by NPCs or impossible" progression gets stuck in the fandoms of a lot of ttrpgs despite how obviously silly it is. The spoilers about Lunars spending their time running Pole countries AND messing with the Realm AND dismembering Sidereals AND whatever other things, as well as the general narrowing of power tiers should help reintroduce "actually, things are hard" w/r/t them. "How come all the elves in Mirkwood aren't level 30, then?" -my friend, this weekend, speaking very honestly. The answer is that all the elves of Mirkwood aren't narratively important main characters, but it's hard for a certain mindset to grab that you're supposed to be playing a novel, not an almanac.
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Jul 13, 2014 07:00
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Zereth posted:... Wouldn't that make the Golds the one who went with the Overthrow Solars option back in the day? And now they're supporting their return. Sure. In 1e/2e canon the Great Prophecy included a possible future where the Sidereals tried to reform the Solars, but they considered the outcome of failure along that line to be too terrible to consider. All the hoary elders of the Bronze Faction in the current era were young firebrands back then.
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Jul 13, 2014 07:24
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