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I think someone could make a strong argument that the first Clerks is a "classic" or at the very least a footnote in the history of American cinema. It was a big part of the mid to late 90's indie movie explosion set off by the success Miramax had with Quentin Tarantino.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:13
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Clerks earned its reputation because it perfectly captures the experience of being a twenty-something burnout working a job you don't like and doing all sorts of inane stuff in an ultimately fruitless attempt to make the experience bearable. It's not very technically adept, but that's not really important to what the movie is doing. Clerks 2 fails because it's trying to capture the same sort of feel but the age and time actively work against it, and the kind of experience that was relatable to most college aged people because it was being related by college aged people instead starts feeling depressing and creepy because it's coming from people in their late thirties who never got out of the college mindset or made anything of themselves and are desperately trying to not realize that fact.
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Jul 9, 2014 17:21
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mr. stefan posted:Clerks earned its reputation because it perfectly captures the experience of being a twenty-something burnout working a job you don't like and doing all sorts of inane stuff in an ultimately fruitless attempt to make the experience bearable. It's not very technically adept, but that's not really important to what the movie is doing. Not only that, but the characters never evolved from the first movie. Why is this movie set 10 years after Clerks, why not 2, or 5? The characters just teleported from Clerks to Clerks 2. This makes sense since SMith seems to have not really mattured himself since his 20's. I also question why there needs to be a romantic plot in Clerks 2, other than there is one in Clerks. The news of the Weinsteins passing on Clerks 3 is not surprising. Smith's reputation is catching up with him. If he really wanted to do it, we could see a couple of Cop Out Films, have him then make Clerks 3 with his own money, and go from there. I doubt that will happen, and I hope it does not. I still like Clerks as a 90's movie, I do not think I could bear watching SMith write a movie about 90's slackers in their 40's dicking around in a convenient store.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:26
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wins.
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I hope he doesn't jump on the kickstarter bandwagon to fund Clerks 3, I don't think his ego could take it if it failed.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:28
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LloydDobler posted:I hope he doesn't jump on the kickstarter bandwagon to fund Clerks 3, I don't think his ego could take it if it failed. It wouldn't.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:30
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PassTheRemote posted:Not only that, but the characters never evolved from the first movie. Why is this movie set 10 years after Clerks, why not 2, or 5? The characters just teleported from Clerks to Clerks 2. This makes sense since SMith seems to have not really mattured himself since his 20's. It's not like the film paints this as a good thing. The characters are more hopeless than they were in the first movie and their lifestyle has painted then into pretty lovely corners. It's totally cool to say it's a bad, dumb movie but the fact that the characters never grew up and live unfulfilling lives isn't an intrinsically bad story. It's set ten years later because that's sadder than two.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:36
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The big fear I have with him going to Kickstarter is that he'll become overfunded and adhere to a bunch of dumb stretch goals. PassTheRemote posted:Not only that, but the characters never evolved from the first movie. Why is this movie set 10 years after Clerks, why not 2, or 5? The characters just teleported from Clerks to Clerks 2. This makes sense since SMith seems to have not really mattured himself since his 20's.
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Jul 9, 2014 20:55
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Timeless Appeal posted:Reel Big Fish also ain't a great band. Hey now I know Kevin Smith gets people all riled up but let's not say things we'll regret...... (I think you need to go to one of their shows dude they still own...)
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Jul 9, 2014 22:12
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Clerks is pretty funny and anyone who has ever worked retail can relate to all the gags about stupid costumers. But it's very obvious that Smith barely knew what he was doing when it came to literally everything except for the writing. I still sort of like it along with most of his early stuff. Although it's like 5 years since I actually watched any of his movies.
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Jul 9, 2014 22:48
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Surlaw posted:It's not like the film paints this as a good thing. The characters are more hopeless than they were in the first movie and their lifestyle has painted then into pretty lovely corners. It's totally cool to say it's a bad, dumb movie but the fact that the characters never grew up and live unfulfilling lives isn't an intrinsically bad story. It's set ten years later because that's sadder than two. But the ending of Clerks 2 completely invalidates that message. It basically tells us that all you need to overcome immaturity are a couple of stoner friends who have an unspecified amount of money that they can give you, so that you can relive your nostalgia. Not to mention that the way clerks 2 begins kind of invalidates the first film, because instead of Dante moving on in his life and getting his poo poo together he is in the same situation as he was by the end of the first one.
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Jul 9, 2014 22:51
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I'm not seeing Dante and Randall ending up back at the convenience store at the end of #2 as anything but a superficially happy ending. Nothing is going to change there. Yes, Dante is a screw up. The lessons he learned in the first movie didn't take. That's the point.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:01
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Surlaw posted:I'm not seeing Dante and Randall ending up back at the convenience store at the end of #2 as anything but a superficially happy ending. Nothing is going to change there. If that's the point then who cares?
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Jul 9, 2014 23:02
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I do I guess. I actually think Clerks 2 Dante is pretty unfortunately accurate to enough people I know that it paints a good picture of this personality type that can't stop sabotaging itself, even if it's a fairly stupid movie.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:05
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There's a bizarre irony in Smith being so well-known for Clerks, a 'masterpiece' about being unwilling to change, that he's now incapable of moving out of the exact mindset he was demonstrating as bad. I think of him as the previous Lena Dunham. Artist getting screwed by their own popularity is a cliche but it's apt.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:11
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Smith visited the Star Wars set a couple weeks ago and left crying hahaha http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Kevin-Smith-Left-Star-Wars-Episode-7-Set-Crying-Today-43677.html 
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Jul 9, 2014 23:43
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I rewatched Clerks recently and boy, is the acting a lot worse than I remembered it being. Brian O'Halloran is not good at all. Jeff Anderson is fine as Randall. It's a one note character but he nails that one note. Still, I'd say overall it holds up. It has that DIY charm that makes the movie work. But if it were made with say Clerks II money, it would just be kind of embarrassing. But "Berserker" will never stop being funny.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:15
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Yaws posted:Smith visited the Star Wars set a couple weeks ago and left crying hahaha He cries about everything, this is not surprising.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:36
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TrixRabbi posted:Still, I'd say overall it holds up. It has that DIY charm that makes the movie work. But if it were made with say Clerks II money, it would just be kind of embarrassing. I'd say you hit the nail on the head. The film has a rawness about it that makes it a lot easier to overlook its flaws (of which there are a reasonable amount) and it doesn't overstay its welcome. The problem with Smith is that he hasn't progressed as a filmmaker at all since then.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:40
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At the very least, Randall's line about being too old to make new friends really hits home as you get older. Hbomberguy posted:I think of him as the previous Lena Dunham. Artist getting screwed by their own popularity is a cliche but it's apt. But really, she's done like two things. I think it's unfair to compare her to a dude who's had twenty years in film.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:45
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Oh gently caress, Clerks is 20 years old? Jesus.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:47
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PassTheRemote posted:Not only that, but the characters never evolved from the first movie. Why is this movie set 10 years after Clerks, why not 2, or 5? The characters just teleported from Clerks to Clerks 2. This makes sense since SMith seems to have not really mattured himself since his 20's. There was the Clerks Animated Series, while being not canon with the movies, that I think is sort of that 2-5 year post-Clerks timeframe for the characters. I do recall that after Dogma and just before he announced J&SBSB there was a rumor that Smith was working on Clerks 2 which sort of makes me wonder what kind of film that could have turned into if he'd made Clerks 2 INSTEAD of J&SBSB.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:24
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Kevin Smith's films weren't always an embarrassment, and had their place. The Kevin Smith brand, however, has always fed into this white suburban male fantasy that you don't need to be particularly clever, talented, or even take your self particularly seriously and still become a celebrated millionaire filmmaker simply by enthusiastically spitballing about how much you love star wars, pussy, and smoking weeeeeed!!!!
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Jul 10, 2014 02:41
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Surlaw posted:It's not like the film paints this as a good thing. The characters are more hopeless than they were in the first movie and their lifestyle has painted then into pretty lovely corners. It's totally cool to say it's a bad, dumb movie but the fact that the characters never grew up and live unfulfilling lives isn't an intrinsically bad story. It's set ten years later because that's sadder than two. Working at the same convenience store a decade later is something you'd expect from the mentally retarded or insane. The only job they can get after it burns down is at an empty fast food restaurant. I don't feel sympathy for their plight and assume they're selling drugs on the side to pay for a decent standard of living. What would have been interesting is if Dante was working an office job, but economic circumstances forced him back into minimum wage jobs to get by. In the end, he buys the old store to make the best of what's handed to him and work his way up again. The way it is in the film, buying the store comes off like a nostalgic inability to let go.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:43
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JediTalentAgent posted:I do recall that after Dogma and just before he announced J&SBSB there was a rumor that Smith was working on Clerks 2 which sort of makes me wonder what kind of film that could have turned into if he'd made Clerks 2 INSTEAD of J&SBSB. I want to say he had said that, had he done Clerks II at that point, it would have been Dante and Randall making a movie about what it's like to be a clerk. So. Yeah. Also, Clerks: The Animated Series is still amazing, and probably the best thing he's had anything to do with. It probably helped that writers from Seinfeld and Newsradio worked on it.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:44
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Nipplebox posted:Working at the same convenience store a decade later is something you'd expect from the mentally retarded or insane. The only job they can get after it burns down is at an empty fast food restaurant. I don't feel sympathy for their plight and assume they're selling drugs on the side to pay for a decent standard of living. This is so true. That's what was so weird about that film. It felt like there was like a small scoop of pathos in there, but then the moral is "never reach beyond that job that was objectively horrible. accept being a loser, just don't whine about it."
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Jul 10, 2014 02:47
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But that's the whole POINT of Dante's character. The whole "poo poo or get off the pot" thing. He's miserable at the Quick Stop, but he's too scared/lazy/whatever to change his situation. So of course he's still there ten years later. And Randall doesn't give a gently caress, he's content to work the video store until he dies of old age.egon_beeblebrox posted:I want to say he had said that, had he done Clerks II at that point, it would have been Dante and Randall making a movie about what it's like to be a clerk. So. Yeah. I believe that was to be the plot of the Clerks animated movie that never got made. I thought it was a funny concept, sort of a meta thing like the "Jerry" sitcom on Seinfeld. Kevyn fucked around with this message at 03:05 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 03:01
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JediTalentAgent posted:I do recall that after Dogma and just before he announced J&SBSB there was a rumor that Smith was working on Clerks 2 which sort of makes me wonder what kind of film that could have turned into if he'd made Clerks 2 INSTEAD of J&SBSB. It's right there in the end credits of Dogma. "Jay and Silent Bob will return in Clerks 2: Hardly Clerkin'" From what I remember, Smith said something about how that ended up becoming Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back. It's also fun reading posts about how being in a poo poo job for ten plus years to going to an other poo poo job for a bit to owning the poo poo business you used to work for is somehow bad. poo poo, my mother drank her way out of one semester at community college in 1977 and worked crappy job after job and moved around all the time and then ended up buying the dry cleaner that she worked at for three years. And all there was for advancement was going from being on the bottom at five bucks an hour to running and owning the place (as is such for many small business where I'm from in Wyoming). The only things about Clerks II that bug me is that Jay and Bob remind us all that the last movie was a thing to explain how they got all that money in the first place and getting ownership of the Qwik Stop to rebuilding it all happens in the last few minutes. Otherwise, it's an okay move. Not bad, but not great. egon_beeblebrox posted:I want to say he had said that, had he done Clerks II at that point, it would have been Dante and Randall making a movie about what it's like to be a clerk. So. Yeah. Zach and Miri Make a Porno is a parallel universe where Kevin Smith makes a porno instead of an indie film.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:08
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Nipplebox posted:Working at the same convenience store a decade later is something you'd expect from the mentally retarded or insane.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:13
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Continuing to work at the Quik Stop does imply some sort of inability to move on in life. But the fact that Dante owns it now is massive. He may never leave the store or Jersey, but he's moved up in life. He's no longer just a clerk, he's actually the responsible owner of a small business.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:26
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TrixRabbi posted:Continuing to work at the Quik Stop does imply some sort of inability to move on in life. But the fact that Dante owns it now is massive. He may never leave the store or Jersey, but he's moved up in life. He's no longer just a clerk, he's actually the responsible owner of a small business. But he only got it because the loser seemingly homeless drug dealers had magic money.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:32
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Surlaw posted:No. Working for 10 years as a clerk at the same lovely convenience store suggests a mental, not emotional, handicap. It's the only explanation that isn't ridiculous. Maybe Dante suffered a head injury after the first film, or perhaps he was diagnosed with high functioning schizophrenia, and Randall is a terrible person who has stuck around in order to take advantage of his old friend.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:45
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People actually can and regularly do work lovely jobs their whole lives without being mentally ill.TrixRabbi posted:Continuing to work at the Quik Stop does imply some sort of inability to move on in life. A True Jar Jar Fan fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 03:47
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Hell, a few of my relatives worked great jobs while being mentally ill. Mental illness has nothing to do with it.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:51
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Not everyone is upwardly mobile!
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Jul 10, 2014 04:05
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Surlaw posted:People actually can and regularly do work lovely jobs their whole lives without being mentally ill. That's different from working the exact same minimum wage cashier job you had out of high school 11 years earlier. The Dante of the first film had enough of a life to play sports with friends and have relationships with several women. For him to work the exact same cashier job in the same building for the following decade suggests a serious issue beyond early-twenties apathy that hindered his ability to function in mainstream society, such as a head injury or other mental problem. quote:This is what it is. He can be a screwed up guy without having brain damage. Another possibility is a drug addition enabled by the dealer hanging out in front of the store. Toady fucked around with this message at 04:23 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 04:06
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Star Man posted:It's right there in the end credits of Dogma. Along these lines, without the nearly 12 year gap between Clerks 1 and 2, and some of the points he brings up in films after Dogma, it makes me wonder if Clerks 2 of 2001 was the seed of of plot ideas that ended up being Clerks 2, Zack and Miri and J&SBSB. I even seem to remember the rumor that a planned animated movie based off of Clerks:TAS was also to similarly feature the "Randall and Dante make a movie". Between that rumor, the plot of Zack and Miri and the subplot of J&SBSB, Jay and Bob showing up in Scream 3 as part of a studio tour where a Stab movie is getting made, Smith seems to like the idea of making movies about making movies. Clerks 2001 seems like it might have had been able to use the premise of Dante and Randall in place of Zack and Miri to maybe better results where the pair decide to make an indie movie in a post-Blair Witch world. Even the notion of them needing Jay and Silent Bob to fund it or act seems a bit easier to swallow than Jay and Bob buying a business. The notion of Mewes actually playing Jay within the world of a Zack and Miri-styled make a porno plot I think maybe works better.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:41
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Please do not forget https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la017NRDjyM
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Jul 10, 2014 21:04
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Hat Thoughts posted:Please do not forget Didn't he charge something like $75 for tickets to see this and then he'd come and do a Q&A afterward?
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Jul 10, 2014 21:13
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Star Man posted:Zach and Miri Make a Porno is a parallel universe where Kevin Smith makes a porno instead of an indie film.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:26
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Hat Thoughts posted:Please do not forget So did Kevin Smith sit there, watch the movie, and just go yeah. This was a good use of 69,000 dollars. I can not even fathom someone putting this out with any sort of pride. I mean I know Smiths standards are low, but come the gently caress on man.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:33
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