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Bad Munki posted:Is "115V" somehow confusing? That's a monster truck of a unit anyway @ 15,000 BTU.  That's about as big as you're going to find that'll be a window unit... and/or run on a household circuit. Any bigger and you're looking at 208V+ units, usually a through the wall unit or split unit.That's enough to cool 800-1200 sq ft by itself. It'll run fine on a 15A circuit, as long as it's the only thing on that circuit - the inrush current on startup has gotta be insane on that thing. I have an 8k BTU portable unit (which is a pile of poo poo, never buy anything from Soleus Air, though at least the compressor and fan work properly), and turning it on is enough to make my PC's UPS flip out for a moment. It's also hilarious watching all the outside landscaping lighting go off for about half a second every time the compressor kicks on (the outlet the lighting is on was tapped into my bedroom circuit). Its running current is about half of that of the Sharp (a little over 6A). Some people do get confused when they see "115V"; most people in the US expect to see 120V, sometimes 110V. The majority of the country has 120-125 most of the time; I see 122-126 depending on the time of day. But anything rated 115 @ 60hZ will usually run fine on any commercially-supplied residential power in the US. randomidiot fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Jul 9, 2014 |
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Jul 9, 2014 09:26
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Is there a product like an in-line capacitor or something that I could put between my air conditioner and the wall plug to deal with exactly that initial startup dip? There's a couple outlets on the circuit that aren't in the same room. If someone's using an iron or a vacuum elsewhere in the house when the AC kicks on, the breaker will pop (this is why I was asking for UPS suggestions earlier, my PC is the house Plex server and on the same line). Huh, now that I think about it, would a UPS be a viable solution, or will I ruin the battery in short order?
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Jul 9, 2014 14:03
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Splizwarf posted:Is there a product like an in-line capacitor or something that I could put between my air conditioner and the wall plug to deal with exactly that initial startup dip? There's a couple outlets on the circuit that aren't in the same room. If someone's using an iron or a vacuum elsewhere in the house when the AC kicks on, the breaker will pop (this is why I was asking for UPS suggestions earlier, my PC is the house Plex server and on the same line). The unit (should) already have a startup capacitor in it. Or a startup/run cap. Splizwarf posted:Huh, now that I think about it, would a UPS be a viable solution, or will I ruin the battery in short order? A UPS that can reliably run 12A would be worth enough for you to go buy a couple of mini splits and have them installed rather than screwing around with an ancient power hogging window unit.
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Jul 9, 2014 15:11
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Splizwarf posted:Is there a product like an in-line capacitor or something that I could put between my air conditioner and the wall plug to deal with exactly that initial startup dip? There's a couple outlets on the circuit that aren't in the same room. If someone's using an iron or a vacuum elsewhere in the house when the AC kicks on, the breaker will pop (this is why I was asking for UPS suggestions earlier, my PC is the house Plex server and on the same line). If your window unit is at least 12,000BTU and you feel comfortable taking things apart you should be able to install something like this http://www.hvac.com/5-2-1-csru1-compressor-saver-hard-start-kit-1-3-tons?gclid=CPK2iqq3uL8CFZSEfgodw2MAow
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Jul 9, 2014 15:25
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Whassat do and how do I install one?
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Jul 9, 2014 19:50
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insta posted:Whassat do and how do I install one? Don't loving do it if you have to ask.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:21
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insta posted:Whassat do and how do I install one? Provides stored energy to start the compressor, so you don't have the extreme inrush current that can trip a breaker or sag the voltage as much. Here's a pretty good explanation of the theory behind it, 5-2-1 is just the trade name of a potential relay + cap kit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vPYHW26RlQ Installation and more video are at their site (http://www.five-two-one.com/videos.html). A window unit still has all the parts a split system would, just compressed into a box, so you'd have to be comfortable looking inside whatever unit you have and identifying circuit paths.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:22
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rotor posted:this is true for all contractors that haven't proven themselves competent to you. if I hire a guy I've never worked with before I telecommute that day and check on him ever 15 or 20 minutes I stopped an idiot contractor from mounting a porch railing post in completely the wrong spot when I was nine. The main corner post holding the porch roof up was like a foot in diameter. The new corner post for the railing down the stairs was a 4x4. They were starting to mount the 4x4 to the side of the same beam the old post was sorta side mounted to... Me, hanging out window: hey man, I'm hanging out the window and I can sight down both posts. The railing is going to end up angled. <contractor ignores annoying kid> Me, to mom: the contractors are screwing up bad and they won't listen to me. Mom: why the hell aren't you working on your math homework? Wait, what? Show me. They were real embarrassed when she told them I was right. Of course, they also managed to screw up a great many other things - my dad had custom-milled the railing top and bottom beams for the two railing sections, and the bottom beams were different from the top. He left explicit instructions with them on which was to go where. They proceeded to use both top beams on one railing and both bottom beams on the other. And one of the idiot flunkies cut every single baluster by eyeballing them on a miter saw instead of using the fence, so every single turned section ended up at a slightly different height from the next. I learned a few new words that evening when he got home from work and found everything hosed up. Splizwarf posted:Is there a product like an in-line capacitor or something that I could put between my air conditioner and the wall plug to deal with exactly that initial startup dip? There's a couple outlets on the circuit that aren't in the same room. If someone's using an iron or a vacuum elsewhere in the house when the AC kicks on, the breaker will pop (this is why I was asking for UPS suggestions earlier, my PC is the house Plex server and on the same line). Capacitors won't work as energy storage on an AC line. I can go into a lot more detail on why but it'll very quickly devolve into EE mumbo jumbo. Products (like the ones just linked) do exist, but they aren't just a capacitor.
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Jul 9, 2014 23:51
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Mumbo-jumbo? Isn't it as simple as DC is one-way and AC isn't? So an accumulator/reservoir on one side would be pointless. I just had no idea what to call the AC equivalent solution. v vMotronic, it's not old or even a big unit, it's a year-old Haier rated for around 200 square feet. Our breaker pops are all just bad timing due to the sprawling circuit. Is "has an internal cap for inrush" something I can deliberately shop for? Is there a specific industry term for that feature? This one either doesn't have one or it's pitifully ineffective. We're shopping for one this summer while stores have decent selection; long story short, gently caress "drainless" window units.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:19
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Splizwarf posted:Mumbo-jumbo? Isn't it as simple as DC is one-way and AC isn't? So an accumulator/reservoir on one side would be pointless. I just had no idea what to call the AC equivalent solution. v Well, it's sorta complicated  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_capacitor
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Jul 10, 2014 00:38
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For DC yeah a capacitor works great. Basically, capacitors work by storing charge. They resist a change in voltage because of this - if you put them in an AC circuit, you're essentially trying to charge and discharge them repeatedly. They work great in filtering applications as DC-blockers for this reason, basically the capacitor charges to the DC offset on the signal while allowing the AC signal to go straight through. There's quite a bit more detail and math involved, but that's the gist of it. Inductors are the analogue of a capacitor, but for current flow. They resist a change in the current flowing through them. Equations and mumbo jumbo: Current through a capacitor: I_c(t) = Cdv/dt Voltage across an inductor: V_l(t) = Ldi/dt Related - "impedance" is basically complex/imaginary-numbers resistance. As an electrical engineer or electrician you can ignore all the calculus and differential equations involved in inductor/capacitor circuits by using a few basic equations, then pretending the result is resistance. (we use the letter j to denote the imaginary number i, which is equal to the square root of -1, since we were already using i to denote current. We're special that way. Further, omega is a placeholder for frequency, but it's frequency in radians per second, not cycles per second AKA hertz.  )Impedance equations: Inductor: Z = j*omega*L Capacitor: Z = 1/(j*omega*C) Resistor: Z = R (real-numbers impedance is just plain old boring resistance.) So you can say hey, I'm working at 60Hz and I have this 47 microfarad capacitor here in series with this 20 ohm resistor, what's the equivalent impedance? (turns out to be 20 - 56.44j ohms, by the way*) And then use Ohm's Law to calculate your current. If you really want to get jiggy with it, you can then calculate the power factor of your load from this, which is simply the cosine of the angle between the current and voltage phasors. Since the current phasor is equal to the voltage phasor divided by the complex load resistance, things are simpler than they seem. Oh hey... power factor, something that's actually relevant to construction again! Basically, incandescent lamps and electric heat devices are resistive (power factor = drat close to 1.0), inductive loads like underloaded motors and capacitive loads like (iirc) older fluorescent lighting cancel each other out if you have the right amount of each. Distorted loads like old non power factor correcting computer equipment are just loving horrible and aren't really either inductive or capacitive. * 20 - 56.44j ohms as an example is the cartesian coordinate system way of expressing an impedance. You can also express this in the polar coordinate system, which is termed a "phasor" and lines up much more easily with voltage/current measurements in an AC system, since they'll just be something like "120 volts RMS at 0 phase angle". </derail> So basically in an analog/AC circuit, capacitors don't really do the job you want them to do here, they do a different and just as useful job. What you'd really want is something like a large flywheel connected to a motor/generator that would help handle the inrush current, though there are other products available like soft-start modules. Disclaimer: it's been a few years now since I had to get truly into an analog circuit this way and there's a good chance I screwed up the math a little in a few places. If anyone who is less rusty than me sees a mistake, by all means call me out on it, I don't like misleading people accidentally. kastein fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 00:41
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 Aaaaaaaaaaand that's why I reconsidered electrical engineering.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:26
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Splizwarf posted:Motronic, it's not old or even a big unit, it's a year-old Haier rated for around 200 square feet. Our breaker pops are all just bad timing due to the sprawling circuit. Oh, well then it's probably worth keeping around. Splizwarf posted:Is "has an internal cap for inrush" something I can deliberately shop for? Is there a specific industry term for that feature? This one either doesn't have one or it's pitifully ineffective. It's just a start cap, and it's got one. They do what they do, and it was linked in that wiki article from Slanderer. If the unit starts up when given proper power it's doing it's job. If it just buzzes and never starts it's not doing it's job. Bottom line here is that if inrush is tripping a breaker, the breaker is bad or you simply have too much current draw on that run. Don't discount a bad breaker - I don't know how old your house/panel is, but as breaker age their typical failure mode is to get touchy and trip too frequently. They will also trip early even when they are fine if the line connected to them isn't making solid contact (because they trip based on heat, and this add heat load - and that's a bad thing). Just how many amps of stuff do you have on this one breaker and what is it's rating? You may just be asking too much of this circuit.
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Jul 10, 2014 01:37
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kastein posted:So basically in an analog/AC circuit, capacitors don't really do the job you want them to do here, they do a different and just as useful job. What you'd really want is something like a large flywheel connected to a motor/generator that would help handle the inrush current, though there are other products available like soft-start modules. The thing is a capacitor actually is what you want in this situation. A "start capacitor" when added to a motor like this will effectively increase torque when the motor is starting and decrease inrush current through the main motor winding. A switch or relay removes it from the circuit once the motor is up to speed. This stresses/heats the main winding less, which apparently makes the motor last longer. EDIT: There are multiple ways to control switching the start capacitor, but I believe this is the circuit topology relevant here: 
Slanderer fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 02:47
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Maybe I'm retarded and lovely at AC motors, then  What I mostly meant was that you can't just put one in series or parallel with the main winding on an AC motor not designed for it and expect it to improve things. With a start relay/contactor that automatically cuts out after, I'll certainly defer to you as I admittedly know very little about how those setups work.
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Jul 10, 2014 02:57
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Some guy in Minnesota bought a house last year. Now he has a webpage about it. I bought my first home, only to become a victim of predatory remodeling    
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Jul 10, 2014 04:01
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kastein posted:Maybe I'm retarded and lovely at AC motors, then That was still a great effort post, though. I knew there was a difference between the way capacitors and inductors behaved between AC and DC, and your explanation was most helpful explaining why.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:05
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This is beautiful.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:07
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Javid posted:This is beautiful. Count the number of times you say "oh my god" or "oh, gently caress" while you read.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:14
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God damned masterpiece 
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Jul 10, 2014 04:19
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Holy gently caress, that poor bastard. Aside from the sill rot issues (I admittedly stopped reading halfway through) I've had, he paid the price for a move-in ready property and got what I have. I'll take my $38k bulldozer property, thanks.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:19
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Wow. Another excellent justification for the existence the home inspectors' trade.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:35
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boo_radley posted:Some guy in Minnesota bought a house last year. Now he has a webpage about it. How he hasn't snapped and murdered a bunch of the people involved is beyond me. Even his new work keeps failing due to flooding. The guy has no luck at all. Good friends, but no luck.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:40
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slap me silly posted:Wow. Another excellent justification for the existence the home inspectors' trade. The problem is that with enough malice you can hide anything from a home inspector. None of that poo poo was visible to the inspector except some minor things. Most people don't want to tear open all the walls in a house to inspect stuff. Makes me glad I'm maintaining a photo album of exactly what I'm doing, I'll be able to hand it to any home inspector a prospective buyer could hire and say "here you go, that's what's behind the drywall. Look at anything you want, I'm happy to answer questions."
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Jul 10, 2014 04:44
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That's pretty much my point. If a home inspection can't help you even in a situation this incredibly awful, what's it good for?
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Jul 10, 2014 04:49
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Jesus christ it keeps going and going and going
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Jul 10, 2014 04:50
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If a seller ever tries to talk you into waiving the disclosure notice/statement, walk away, no matter how sweet the deal.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:56
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slap me silly posted:That's pretty much my point. If a home inspection can't help you even in a situation this incredibly awful, what's it good for? Oh, I thought you were seriously suggesting home inspectors can find serious problems  (this is not the case, though they can find the really egregious stuff done by a moron who has no idea it is horrible and is in fact proud of their handiwork.) That website is the best use of the endless-scroll web design philosophy I've ever seen... it perfectly captures the emotional response you (as an owner) have to a house like that. You think you've seen it all, read the whole thing, found out how it ends, discovered the very last hamfucked repair... and then you scroll that last little bit or peel open another wall and OH GOD THERE'S EVEN MORE. gently caress. OH GOD. HOW DID I END UP IN THIS MESS. 
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Jul 10, 2014 04:58
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Oh my god now it's turning into a boat. A leaking, sinking boat. 
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Jul 10, 2014 04:58
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kastein posted:Oh, I thought you were seriously suggesting home inspectors can find serious problems Hahaha, I didn't think sarcasm could be too dry for something awful. You are right the autoscroll thing is great. My favorite is the part where the first new repair fails... then the next... and then pretty soon we are right up to last week. More soon I hope!
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Jul 10, 2014 05:05
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kastein posted:The problem is that with enough malice you can hide anything from a home inspector.
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Jul 10, 2014 05:09
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The raccoon poo poo in the attic alone should have been found by anyone competent 100 bucks says it's a friend or relative.
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Jul 10, 2014 05:11
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PLANES CURE TOWERS posted:The raccoon poo poo in the attic alone should have been found by anyone competent What are the odds that the agent recommended the inspector?
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Jul 10, 2014 05:26
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boo_radley posted:What are the odds that the agent recommended the inspector? Yeah. I'm never falling for that one again. Fortunately it only cost me a few grand.
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Jul 10, 2014 05:32
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What's the going rate for a house like that in the Twin Cities? I can't help but think that if he paid 174k and has to spend 100k on fixing poo poo, that he still got a huge bargain for a house like that where I'm from. Real estate is completely stupid in Alberta.
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Jul 10, 2014 05:39
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Holy gently caress! That is some evil poo poo.
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Jul 10, 2014 06:10
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That page is why you build your own house. Edit: This seems like an oversight quote:I’m informed that there are no lemon laws for houses and the sale cannot be reversed. I’m not sure what to do." If you buy a house here and it has these kinds of failings and it's not clear that it's been informed to the new buyers, the previous owners are gonna be so poo poo deep in trouble. My new neighbors bought their house rather than building and the bathroom developed moisture damage and the sellers had to cover it. Had the previous owner had a certified contractor do the bathroom then the contractors would be considered at fault and would have had to cover the repairs, but these guys did it themselves and they had no certification and so they had to pay out of their own pocket to the new owners to fix the bathroom. I think there's a period of many years after a bathroom renovation that it has to last before developing faults, during which you the seller, can be held liable. This is also why you hire certified workers, that way you move responsibility away from you, and also without certified contractors doing jobs that require it, no insurance will cover you. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 06:11
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no, that page is why you never waive inspections
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Jul 10, 2014 06:54
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I have to think that there is some legal recourse for something this flagrant though, even if you do waive the disclosures
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Jul 10, 2014 06:57
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Captain Cool posted:None of it? Even the "fuse box illegally located in the corner of the master closet," the missing gas and water shutoffs (behind drywall), and attic full of raccoon droppings? The fusebox should have been found, though I would have expected a breaker panel not a fusebox in something like that. Maybe it was a breaker panel and I don't remember seeing it and he just used the wrong name. Missing gas and water shutoffs - if it was legally required that there be shutoffs on those branches, yes it should have been noticed, unless the house was technically old enough to be grandfathered in on requirements like that. No way to detect optional shutoffs behind walls, sadly. Shutoffs are always an interesting point. Basically, if you install one, even if it isn't required by code, it has to be accessible, as I understand it. This is similar to adding aftermarket fog lights to a car - you don't have to, but if you do, they must function. So you can be pulled over for a dead fog light that wasn't there when it left the factory and isn't required to be present. I added a shutoff for each individual drop off the main hot/cold water line because I always thought it was dumb that we had to go without some things for a few days growing up because a pipe had sprung a leak, the plumber was busy, and the only shutoff that covered it also covered other stuff. Attic full of raccoon droppings - yes, if the inspector could get to that without cutting an access hole, they dropped the ball bigtime on this one. Should have found the illegal sewer line running into a former sewer cleanout/trap access, too. kastein fucked around with this message at 07:58 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 07:54
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