|
Catholics are some good people mostly, but unfortunately their baptisms don't count 
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 04:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 06:34 |
|
|
Miltank posted:Catholics are some good people mostly, but unfortunately their baptisms don't count Yeah they do. As long as it's Trinitarian, it's fine.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 04:55
|
|
|
Miltank posted:Catholics are some good people mostly, but unfortunately their baptisms don't count Who picked your gospels bitch?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
Ogmius815 posted:Who picked your gospels bitch? orthodox
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 05:02
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:orthodox E: ya gotta be old enough to understand baptism or it doesn't actually symbolize anything.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:orthodox Just submit to the authority of the Successor of the Prince of the Apostles already. You'll feel better right away, I promise!
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 05:05
|
|
|
Miltank posted:E: ya gotta be old enough to understand baptism or it doesn't actually symbolize anything. Do you ever truly understand how the baptism works? How is it that a dipping of water makes someone healed? The baby understands baptism as much as I do.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
Smoking Crow posted:Do you ever truly understand how the baptism works? How is it that a dipping of water makes someone healed? The baby understands baptism as much as I do. I was just trying to be playfully antagonistic. Nobody needs to be rebaptized, but it is my believe that the symbolic death and rebirth of baptism should be fully grasped by whoever is being baptized. I assume there is an Orthodox version of the Catholic first communion? Kinda like that, but with baptism too.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 07:33
|
|
|
If I say something mean to another christian who isn't spouting hate just assume I'm doing it with that look on my face that your brother has when he is ribbing on you good.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 07:35
|
|
|
Miltank posted:I was just trying to be playfully antagonistic. Nobody needs to be rebaptized, but it is my believe that the symbolic death and rebirth of baptism should be fully grasped by whoever is being baptized. I assume there is an Orthodox version of the Catholic first communion? Kinda like that, but with baptism too. Baptism is not traditionally considered symbolic, it literally cleanses you of all sin, including original sin. It is also the initiation of a person into the church. Infant baptism was practiced by the early church, Paul says that it replaces circumcision, Christ says "Let the children come to me," entire households were baptized in the Bible (implying children), and the Bible nowhere restricts baptism to only adults.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:27
|
|
|
.
buttcoin smuggler fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:29
|
|
|
buttcoin smuggler posted:The past few pages have been nothing put knee-jerk anti-religious bloviating. If the best objection you can muster is that a Catholic theocracy would no longer allow you to murder unborn children, then maybe you should reconsider your position. Can't tell if troll, ironic, or unironic. 8/10. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:31
|
|
|
.
buttcoin smuggler fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:34
|
|
|
buttcoin smuggler posted:The United States is currently governed by corrupt sociopaths beholden to multinational corporations and other monied special interest groups. You're insane if you think this is preferable to a government run by men of God with a lifetime of moral and spiritual training.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:52
|
|
|
.
buttcoin smuggler fucked around with this message at 14:47 on Dec 29, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 08:57
|
|
|
Good, I'm happy we both agree.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 09:15
|
|
|
I take back the crusade thing. Now I just think it's time for a good old anticlerical purge. Maybe we can finally annihilate the second estate in its entirety this time.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 09:19
|
|
|
I am not convinced by your anime, so, honestly, why not Satan? Pros: - better colors - better music - acceptance of nearly anyone Cons: - old school satansits were libertarians i guess
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 09:45
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:I am not convinced by your anime, so, honestly, why not Satan? Satanism and Objectivism kind of line up 1:1, rituals and metaphysics aside. In some ways Satanism goes even farther: "Third, Rand's philosophy rejects as ethical accepting the sacrifice of another to one's self (to paraphrase the end of Galt's oath from Atlas Shrugged). The Satanic view sees as ethical the reality of domination of the weak by the strong. The assertion in Objectivism is that the use of force to cause others to submit to the will of the stronger or cleverer individual is "wrong" for the individual. This is a second major assertion which Satanism finds unproven by the Objectivists. Consequently, the Satanist is far more flexible in the choice of actions available than is the Objectivist who cannot simply accept his personal needs as absolutely reliable to determine the best course of action in any circumstance." "At the same time, Satanism is a “brutal” as well as a selfish philosophy. We do not hold, as do the Objectivists that the universe is “benevolent.” Satanists view the world as neutral, beyond the concepts of benevolent or treacherous, good or evil. Satanism enables the Satanist to codify his life beyond the ethical and metaphysical straightjacket which Objectivism unfortunately offers. This is not written to attack Objectivism but merely to clarify the areas of difference." http://www.churchofsatan.com/satanism-and-objectivism.php LaVey also acknowledged the close similarities of Objectivism and Satanism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 10:15
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:I am not convinced by your anime, so, honestly, why not Satan? Because Satan is evil and Jesus is good? It's literally the same thing as choosing good over evil. It may not seem hip to the edgy kids, but it's obviously the morally superior choice. Satan has a gross aesthetic, too. The music and art of traditional Christianity is gorgeous, it appeals to the soul, and it accepts (and loves!) absolutely everyone. But when it really comes down to it, I have always loved Jesus as long as I can remember, he is a really great guy that has inspired me so much in my life, he has a pure heart and is right about everything and I have a lot of fun attending and defending his church.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 10:54
|
|
|
I'm just going to point out a little book called the bible, specifically its statements on things such as, well, pretty much anything it makes a statement on. Considering all the stupid stuff it says, living under a theocracy basing its laws on it would be loving terrible.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 11:20
|
|
|
Miltank posted:E: ya gotta be old enough to understand baptism or it doesn't actually symbolize anything. That's why Catholics have their Confirmation when they are old enough to decide for themselves. Coincidentally, it's around the same age and pretty much the same thing as a Jewish Bar Mitzvah, so good work not knowing about Catholicism I guess? I heard that Catholics have sex with goats; is this true? --- a Protestant
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 12:14
|
|
|
buttcoin smuggler posted:The United States is currently governed by corrupt sociopaths beholden to multinational corporations and other monied special interest groups. You're insane if you think this is preferable to a government run by men of God with a lifetime of moral and spiritual training. Murder only applies to the unlawful killing of an actual person. So you can't murder the unborn.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 12:44
|
|
|
If the orthodox thing is so great how come Istanbul is called Istanbul?
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 14:12
|
|
|
That's no one's business but the Turks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 14:18
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:That's no one's business but the Turks. This doesn't on its own justify this abortion of a thread, but it sure does come close.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 14:24
|
|
|
CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:That's why Catholics have their Confirmation when they are old enough to decide for themselves. Coincidentally, it's around the same age and pretty much the same thing as a Jewish Bar Mitzvah, so good work not knowing about Catholicism I guess? jeez sorry that I mixed up first communion and confirmation what a huge deal (lol)
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
Miltank posted:jeez sorry that I mixed up first communion and confirmation what a huge deal (lol) It's always so amazing when Christians get into slap-fights over who's made up rituals are the dumbest. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 15:56
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:It's always so amazing when Christians get into slap-fights over who's made up rituals are the dumbest.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 15:58
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:Murder only applies to the unlawful killing of an actual person. So you can't murder the unborn. Life begins at implantation, scum. It's part of our disgusting larval stage.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Life begins at implantation, scum. It's part of our disgusting larval stage. murder noun the unlawful premeditated killing of one human being by another. Since abortion is not an unlawful act it is not murder, regardless of whether the fetus is a human being or a parasite and regardless of your personal opinions on the matter. Caladin fucked around with this message at 16:33 on Jul 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:30
|
|
|
CAPT. Rainbowbeard posted:Life begins at implantation, scum. It's part of our disgusting larval stage. Why implantation and not fertilization? "Disgusting larval stage" is too obvious. Tone down your trolling a few notches.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:41
|
|
|
buttcoin smuggler posted:The United States is currently governed by corrupt sociopaths beholden to multinational corporations and other monied special interest groups. You're insane if you think this is preferable to a government run by men of God with a lifetime of moral and spiritual training. This thread is so great. It's like, y'all start with a good case about how American democracy is bought-and-paid for by soulless evil avaricious fiends and go on about how a Christian theocracy would care for the poor and downtrodden and I'm all like "Hell yeah that sounds great" and then you just go off the rails into "Oh but women should totally be property, and infidels of course are second-class citizens, and well I don't want to say we're gonna stone the gays but we all know they've got it coming  ".Like, can't we do the full Christian communism stuff, but skip out on the oppression like Christ wanted us to do anyway, or is persecution just too much fun? Paul was an rear end in a top hat, and he never met Jesus or intended his letters to be gospel anyway. So how about this, cut out Paul's horrible fan-fiction, let's do a Theocracy based on the Gospels and I'm on board. VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jul 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:43
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:It's always so amazing when Christians get into slap-fights over who's made up rituals are the dumbest. It's the orthodox
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:44
|
|
|
VitalSigns posted:This thread is so great. It's like, y'all start with a good case about how American democracy is bought-and-paid for by soulless evil avaricious fiends and go on about how a Christian theocracy would care for the poor and downtrodden and I'm all like "Hell yeah that sounds great" and then you just go off the rails into "Oh but women should totally be property, and infidels of course are second-class citizens, and well I don't want to say we're gonna stone the gays but we all know they've got it coming You cannot base a system of government on only putting the 'right' people in, because there are no 'right' people. Everything else that follows from that is nothing but empty loving promises. The sad part is that, while this thread started as a joke, there are legitimately people dumb enough to believe that old elitist plato's fable (that has been categorically disproven by history): Ethics is not and has never been a techne (a skill that we can say some people have and others do not). If you want to see where theocracy gets you, look no further than ISIS. rudatron fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Jul 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:53
|
|
|
rudatron posted:If you want to see where theocracy gets you, look no further than ISIS. "Yes but that's the wrong type of Theocracy. Ours will be different because *fart*"
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:55
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Word to the wise: unaccountable authority figures always end up being corrupt. The idea that if you could only get the good guys in power, and keep the bad guys out, is historical fantasy. What makes this doubly disgusting is that it claims that religious figures are more moral than other people, which as we've seen with the church abuse scandals, is not true. Look Jesus said war is bad, therefore a Christian clerical potentate would never go to war because by definition a Christian cleric would never condone war of any kind for any reason QED. It's basic logic man. (But seriously my point was how amazing I find it that even granting their perfect idealistic Theocracy that hews to all of their values with zero corruption, it's still an oppressive dystopia for anyone who isn't a straight Christian male. That's what I find so hilarious. Like that's the society they want: women are property, gays are in the closet if they want to live, and dissenters keep quiet and pay their extra taxes). VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 17:01 on Jul 10, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 16:58
|
|
|
Who What Now posted:"Yes but that's the wrong type of Theocracy. Ours will be different because *fart*" Iran's a better example anyway. The Guardian Council and Supreme Leader are recursively-appointed* clerics, and one can make a reasonably coherent argument that they strive to make morality a priority. In between the brutal crushing of dissent and all that. * - technically the Guardian Council is elected by the Parliament... from a slate recommended by a guy appointed by the Supreme Leader, or a slate recommended by the Supreme Leader himself. The system works!
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 17:11
|
|
|
rudatron posted:Word to the wise: unaccountable authority figures always end up being corrupt. The idea that if you could only get the good guys in power, and keep the bad guys out, is historical fantasy. What makes this doubly disgusting is that it claims that religious figures are more moral than other people, which as we've seen with the church abuse scandals, is not true. Or, you know, the last time the Papacy actually held temporal power.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 17:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 8, 2024 06:34 |
|
|
Kyrie eleison posted:Baptism is not traditionally considered symbolic, it literally cleanses you of all sin, including original sin. It is also the initiation of a person into the church. Infant baptism was practiced by the early church, Paul says that it replaces circumcision, Christ says "Let the children come to me," entire households were baptized in the Bible (implying children), and the Bible nowhere restricts baptism to only adults. It's symbolic now for most of the protestant denominations (at least the nominalist ones.) But you're right that it was not symbolic and definitely literal in the early church. But then again in the early church one of the apostles was a lady, Junia (which gets changed to Junias in later references to hide this). We could talk about position of the "apostle to the apostles" too. I guess what I'm saying is don't pretend Catholicism is perfectly in line with early Christianity. My question for the Christians who want theonomy or theocracy. I've had some of you tell me that those who aren't Christian or who don't sign onto Logocentric Trinitarianism are not our brothers and sisters. That is not, from what I see of the example of Christ presented in the gospels, in line with the example of Jesus. Which to me seems to be that we are all children of the Father and His brothers and sisters. That is to say it seems to be against the Logos and frankly against the vision of Kingdom of God presented in the New Testament. Is it not a hypocrisy to want state theocracy (or a theonomy) while applying conditions to the grace of God? Is it a hypocrisy to equate the Kingdom of God, with a temporary human nation-state? And how did that go the first time, when the Kingdom of God was identical with the Jewish state? The very earliest Christians (still Jews at that point) wanted a theocratic state of Israel. How'd that go? Well the most recent things I've read put the writing of Mark just after the Romans kick the poo poo out of Galilee, destroying all those fishing villages and fish salting towns. Matthew and Luke after destruction of the temple. The very context of gospels is one of the Jewish dream of a physical Kingdom of God, (a theocracy or a theonomy) not happening. It seems to me that God answered this question, and the answer was Titus. Maybe theocracy is bad idea.
|
|
#
?
Jul 10, 2014 17:18
|
|
