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My immersion was much less affected by Miles not bandaging his hands (although I did feel he should at least torn a bit of his shirt off to wrap them up, at least to lessen the impact if he bumps the stumps into something) but how easily he got out of his restraints. I thought he was tipping the chair over to be able to get to the instruments, using them to cut himself loose. But no, he just magically wriggled out of the restraints, not even making the motion to remove the leg ones despite the "doctor" obviously crouching down to fasten them.
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Jul 6, 2014 17:07
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CommissarMega posted:Well, I get scared very easily, and I'm honestly amazed and impressed that people can 'look behind the curtain' as you put it, Daeren. Mind you, I get easily immersed in my games- hell, I can't play any of the games in the FEAR series without keeping my eyes halfway shut, and I hear they're pretty low on the scary scale FEAR is special in that scares just happen without any real tells and they were super clever about placement and such. Sometimes turning around in a specific spot is the trigger and above all else, there is no "curtain". You know Alma won't kill you but the shock factor remains. Compare that to Outlast or Amnesia, where being hunted is the focus as opposed to just shocking the player. The AI and mechanics become the veil and when they can be manipulated as such figuring out the best method of succeeding becomes 'looking behind the curtain'. Amnesia stops being scary when you realize darkness isn't a real threat and Outlast falls apart when you see how ungodly powerful sprinting is. Basically, when you're being hunted you need to be weak, but players will absolutely find a way to invalidate that.
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Jul 7, 2014 03:44
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Ah, FEAR. Apart from the great enemy AI, i will always remember the ladder. It was an amazing scare that kinda incorporated the game's mechaincal restraints into it. It wasn't even threatening or accompanied by loud acoustic stings, which helped make it so effective. Outlast tried to do the same, but in a much clunkier way and i could see it coming since episode 1 and was just waiting on when it would happen. Rhygezenguro posted:You know Alma won't kill you but the shock factor remains. Alma won't kill you, until she suddenly does if you're stupidly ignoring all warnings. HenryEx fucked around with this message at 03:52 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 03:49
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HenryEx posted:Alma won't kill you, until she suddenly does if you're stupidly ignoring all warnings. Well, whenever she sticks around for more than half a second yeah.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:03
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HenryEx posted:Ah, FEAR. Apart from the great enemy AI, i will always remember the ladder. Not gonna lie, my gun was two bullets less after that event. One of the most memorable things from that game for me, aside from the insomnia inducing nightmares that plagued me for weeks afterwards of a particular enemy you encounter late in the game. Not being hyperbolic here either. This game though? The only cringe worthy part here for me is the hand "surgery" part, I just don't like personal character mutilation. And you can sure as hell bet I did that part right the first time around in Dead Space 2. Mutilation in that particular area is awful for me.
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Jul 7, 2014 04:15
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Ulvirich posted:Not gonna lie, my gun was two bullets less after that event. One of the most memorable things from that game for me, aside from the insomnia inducing nightmares that plagued me for weeks afterwards of a particular enemy you encounter late in the game. Not being hyperbolic here either. This game though? The only cringe worthy part here for me is the hand "surgery" part, I just don't like personal character mutilation. I have a Thing about eye trauma so that part in Dead Space 2 was pretty uncomfortable. Not enough to get me panicking but it certainly got more of a visceral reaction than a lot of games. And I'm gonna guess that FEAR enemy was either Nightmares or, if it was one of the expansions, one of those motherfuckers that yank you through the floor into a pool of darkness.
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Jul 7, 2014 05:37
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Ulvirich posted:And you can sure as hell bet I did that part right the first time around in Dead Space 2. Mutilation in that particular area is awful for me. IMHO, doing it right is a more unsettling/freaky/uncomfortable scene than messing it up.
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Jul 7, 2014 06:10
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Daeren posted:I have a Thing about eye trauma so that part in Dead Space 2 was pretty uncomfortable. That part in Dead Space 2? I had to sit down to compose myself for a few minutes, and forced myself to do it correct the first time. In FEAR, it was those eerie floating assholes with bright yellow eyes, and a haunting moan. Edit: azren posted:IMHO, doing it right is a more unsettling/freaky/uncomfortable scene than messing it up. I did not get a good look at that scene after the fact as I had to turn away from watching. 
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Jul 7, 2014 06:18
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Rhygezenguro posted:FEAR is special in that scares just happen without any real tells and they were super clever about placement and such. Sometimes turning around in a specific spot is the trigger and above all else, there is no "curtain". You know Alma won't kill you but the shock factor remains For me, a third of the way through FEAR, spotting Alma just became a mini-game. It totally ceased to be frightening or stressful when I understood 100% that her appearances are literally zero progression threat to the player. But then again, I confess that it absolutely baffles me that some of you are so helpless to Outlast's jump-scare moments that you actually requested Rodent spoil them for you ahead of time. I mean, really? The whole point of these games is supposed to be the adrenaline rush you feel from your body's fear-stress response to such moments and the chase/hunted sequences, etc. Take that away, and why even bother? quote:Amnesia stops being scary when you realize darkness isn't a real threat It's still more of a 'threat' in the game than Alma was in FEAR. Being in the dark too long in Amnesia did at least have tangible gameplay ramifications. Not so with Alma's peek-a-boo moments. quote:and Outlast falls apart when you see how ungodly powerful sprinting is. Easy remedy for this: up the difficulty mode. Regardless of how fast Miles can move relative to Outlast's enemies, the game remains plenty tense when you can be one-shot, and batteries are so scarce you have to be extremely prudent with nightvision; sprinting away is a lot less effective when you can't see where you're going, and you know that stumbling into one dead-end will lead to instant death. ninotoreS fucked around with this message at 14:26 on Jul 7, 2014 |
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Jul 7, 2014 06:43
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ninotoreS posted:But then again, I confess that it absolutely baffles me that some of you are so helpless to Outlast's jump-scare moments that you actually requested Rodent spoil them for you ahead of time. I mean, really? The whole point of these games is supposed to be the adrenaline rush you feel from your body's fear-stress response to such moments and the chase/hunted sequences, etc. Take that away, and why even bother? Doom 3 consisted of nothing but darkness and jumpscares and it was so bad and non-scary it literally killed the franchise, just as a reminder.
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Jul 7, 2014 16:18
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Cardiovorax posted:Because jump "scares" aren't scary. They're startling. A fluffly little kitten can startle you when it jumps at you while you're not expecting it, it's not scary and it's not effective horror. It doesn't help build atmosphere in the slightest. I asked for jump scares to be pointed out because I hate it when a video starts randomly screaming at me "OOOH, LOOOK AT ME, I'M A SCARY THING! ARE YOU SCARED YET? GUESS I'LL SCREAM LOOOOUDER!" I usually watch these videos at night and I've got neighbours to be considerate of, so it's nice to know when to turn the volume down. Okay, so then you're intolerably vulnerable to simply being STARTLED? Isn't that even sillier? As for the volume thing, I don't think that point scans. If you're playing (or watching) a game like Outlast without headphones you're doing it wrong, and the loud moments in Outlast (which are usually simply ambient music spikes) aren't exactly eardrum bruising or anything. Aside: Doom 3 was an extremely successful video-game by any objective measure, actually. Sales, critical acclaim, etc. It didn't kill anything about the IP. Not defending its painfully predictable "pick up a health pack in a corner and an imp teleports in directly behind you" tactics, but I'm just saying. The shooter was entertaining because it was exciting and challenging fighting big nasty hell demons in close quarters and darkness, not necessarily because it was (or wasn't) scary. ninotoreS fucked around with this message at 12:53 on Jul 8, 2014 |
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Jul 8, 2014 12:32
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Fatal Frame amps up the fear factor a lot as these games go--the atmosphere is very oppressive (Fatal Frame 2 and 3 especially), and the gameplay requires you to put yourself in greater danger in order to actually be proficient at combat, so the fights are all stressful as well. There's nothing quite like throwing down with a Fatal Frame ghost--the first game especially is probably the hardest in this regard and you will get straight hosed up by weird-rear end ghosts while you struggle to find and photograph 'em. The scariest game I've ever played is Ninja Gaiden on the harder difficulties, because I was literally making GBS threads myself if I took even a single hit, knowing I may be stuck with half a health bar for the upcoming bone dragon boss and also every boss and also every enemy. That game made encounters stressful and reliant solely on skill and if your skill was lasting, even items wouldn't be enough to save you ('cause you'd use them all up).
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Jul 8, 2014 13:36
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Fatal Frame (esp. FF1) makes the best use of darkness that I've seen in a horror game.
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Jul 8, 2014 15:09
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ninotoreS posted:Okay, so then you're intolerably vulnerable to simply being STARTLED?
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Jul 8, 2014 23:07
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First I have to say I love this LP, I'm only two episodes in, and I'm craving more, I don't know what it is about you,probably is your voice like a lot of people in the thread have said, you honestly sound like a really tired, ready to be done with this poo poo reporter. I'll ask the rest of the thread, has anybody gotten sort of a Niggurath like feeling from this LP? It feels eerily similar to the style he did his Silent Hill Series and I love it. So DumbRodent, all I have to say is, good luck, and you certainly have my attention
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Jul 10, 2014 00:08
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ninotoreS posted:Okay, so then you're intolerably vulnerable to simply being STARTLED? I wouldn't describe myself as "intolerably vulnerable", but I despise jump scares. I don't get enjoyment out of being startled or having loud screaming or screeching violins in my ears, and I find it a cheap method of "horror" that's less about fear and more about a cheap shock. It's like the high tech version of "Made ya flinch!" from middle school. In a sense, it's also led to the current trend of horror LPers who just scream as loud as possible and leap out of their chairs at every change in music. Overuse of cheap jump scares means that these guys have plenty of fodder for their most annoying shtick. What I like about Outlast is the great graphics, the good atmosphere, and some of the unique things it does like the more immersive sense of self with Miles's totally visible body and animations and the use of parkour and climbing elements instead of having a protagonist who mysteriously can't jump or grab a waist-high wall with his hands. What I don't like is the overuse of cheap jump scares that wreck the mood. A much better example of the game pulling off horror is the first encounter with the Twins in the showers, where you jump out the window to avoid them. They walk completely silently and spawn out of range of your night vision, so you simply see one of them walk out of the darkness straight toward you. Then you turn around to run and the other is right behind you. No musical stings or screaming or rattling chains, and they don't even run. They just appear quietly and calmly right where you least expect it and when you aren't immediately sure of where to escape.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:40
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JackNapier posted:First I have to say I love this LP, I'm only two episodes in, and I'm craving more, I don't know what it is about you,probably is your voice like a lot of people in the thread have said, you honestly sound like a really tired, ready to be done with this poo poo reporter. I'll ask the rest of the thread, has anybody gotten sort of a Niggurath like feeling from this LP? It feels eerily similar to the style he did his Silent Hill Series and I love it. So DumbRodent, all I have to say is, good luck, and you certainly have my attention I do agree actually, DumbRodent seem to have been blessed with the calm voice that works so well in horror LPs, as Niggurath has proven over and over.
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Jul 10, 2014 12:52
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chitoryu12 posted:I wouldn't describe myself as "intolerably vulnerable", but I despise jump scares. I don't get enjoyment out of being startled or having loud screaming or screeching violins in my ears, and I find it a cheap method of "horror" that's less about fear and more about a cheap shock. It's like the high tech version of "Made ya flinch!" from middle school. My mom actually has a similar response; she absolutely hates adrenaline rushes. They make her feel terrible, and give her an extremely negative reaction. Myself, I have the problem in most cases that you're talking about, where after about 5 seconds, tops, any horror that came from the scare is probably gone. Some things can use jump scares to great effect: the first Alien film, for example has the quintessential cat scare, but it has a purpose, and things have been building up in such a way that it doesn't feel cheap. At least not to me.
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Jul 10, 2014 14:33
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I've seen the vast, vast majority of horror films and video games resorting to jump scares lately, and it's part of the reason why I've been avoiding a lot of them despite generally being a horror fan who's even been part of an indie horror film (which, for the record, used exactly one real jump scare). They go for the haunted house style of cheap thrills and easy adrenaline rushes that take little effort at the expense of a proper atmosphere. Most horror films can still do well with the atmosphere and tension, but they often blow their load on (often telegraphed) screaming in the viewer's face instead of keeping the tension up. And in a sense it ends up ruining the effect of the tension, as you're not tensing up for whatever horror your mind can create. You're tensing up for the inevitable moment where they start flinging loud noises at you out of nowhere. Instead of experiencing fear, you're anticipating an intentional film making technique.
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Jul 10, 2014 15:02
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Thesaya posted:I do agree actually, DumbRodent seem to have been blessed with the calm voice that works so well in horror LPs, as Niggurath has proven over and over. I agree, I've watched every episode now, and I'm honestly in love, DumbRodent, I will watch every horror LP you do, as well as any other, for the same reason I'm addicted to Niggurath's LP's, your voice lends you extremely well to this, you have a great presence vocally, and the fact that you manage to convey the emotion from the scenes and things Miles is going through so accurately while playing is amazing, My heart was pounding the entire "Trager" section, and it had absolutely nothing to do with the lunatic with the giant Bone Saw walking around Edit: Gushing compliments aside, I'll jump into the "Horror Discussion" band wagon, honestly, if there's any game I remember completely, jump scare for jump scare, that absolutely scared the poo poo out of me, the remake of the original Resident Evil. I think it had the right idea for "horror" Using camera angles, ambient music, and the sounds you would expect to hear in a giant abandoned mansion, and then working on them with little things like shadows from trees outside, or the occasional shadow of something moving outside, and only rarely using an honest to god "Jump scare" every now and then. A certain well travelled hallway on the first floor of the mansion comes to mind when I think about some of the Jumps in the game. JackNapier fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 15:37
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Like, I'm not opposed to jump scares' very existence. I think that they're a tool that can be used well, preferably very sparingly and carefully applied. A good way to use them would be only one or two per film (or in a video game, one or two every few hours), coming unexpectedly and full force to maximize shock at the exact right moment in the plot. My contention is with media that uses it as a crutch, throwing them out left and right as the only form of terror they can manage. Insidious suffered greatly from it, as it was an ordinarily rather well-done horror film with a good atmosphere and some unique aspects that was dragged down by repeatedly using jump scares and screeching string instruments, sometimes with less than 15 minutes between them.
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Jul 10, 2014 16:02
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chitoryu12 posted:Like, I'm not opposed to jump scares' very existence. I think that they're a tool that can be used well, preferably very sparingly and carefully applied. A good way to use them would be only one or two per film (or in a video game, one or two every few hours), coming unexpectedly and full force to maximize shock at the exact right moment in the plot. That is why I brought up the Resident Evil Remake, they used their jump scares and strings, and musical cues extremely well in that game, they used camera angle to their benefit, that is a very good way to use the elements in a horror game, the way they used them, I remember while I was playing the game, I actually stopped at one point in the mansion, shortly after the Red Head boss fight in the crypt in the backyard, and grabbed something to eat, and just did anything but play the game for a half hour, because all I was going crazy from just how generally tense I was playing the game
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Jul 10, 2014 16:57
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Something I enjoyed about Amnesia when I played the first 30 minutes or so was the relative scarcity of jump scares. One or two, and the rest was purely the tension of wandering around alone. And the first monster appearance was done without having it suddenly pop out of a closet and scream at you; you just walked out into the hallway after grabbing a plot item and the thing is walking around. It has such an inherent wrongness to its movement and the protagonist's reaction to seeing it that you immediately know that it's a threat without it doing anything actively threatening.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:07
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The innate wrongness to the way the monsters move in Amnesia always got to me, because it just seems so wrong, everything about how they move seems wrong and I never really understood why it seemed that way, but your very correct as it came off absolutely threatening without even doing anything
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Jul 10, 2014 18:17
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It's the speed. Amnesia's monsters move very stiff-limbed and awkwardly, like their joints don't quite connect right. Then the animation is sped up, which pushes the impression from "awkward" into "unnatural." The overall effect is something like a large insect or a person with severely mangled limbs running right at you.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:40
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Well, that's ecactly what they are, though, if a certain note if to be believed.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:50
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Sorry for the late update! We now return to the glamorous life of Super High-school Level Investigative Reporter Miles Upshur. Episode Six- Night Air --Video!-- Documents & Notes
JackNapier posted:I'll ask the rest of the thread, has anybody gotten sort of a Niggurath like feeling from this LP?  Oh... man. That's very high praise! Niggurath's Fatal Frame LPs are some of my favorites, and his great playthrough of Dead Space 2 is the main reason I'm not so certain about covering the series myself (which I would love to do, I originally began Outlast just to practice for that)...As for the sprinting... debate... it loses a lot of its gusto in the higher difficulties. As I said, I decided to play on a lower difficulty to give myself a little room for error, since the timecodes on the camera make it hard for me to replay a segment and cut it together smoothly without anything looking out of place. It gives me more wiggle room to be cinematic.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:28
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Another great update! I'm actually preferring your commentary over Niggurath's, mostly there's less of it. Niggurath's videos have so much continuous voiceover that the tonal and verbal tricks he uses to place emotion get noticible and stale, which doesn't happen with your videos- you're trusting readers to piece things together more, you're letting the game do more of the work, and you're willing to put more mechanical discussion in the thread rather than the video. Of course, that's easier with this game than, say, FF3 with all its intricacies.
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Jul 11, 2014 08:20
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Discendo Vox posted:Another great update! I'm actually preferring your commentary over Niggurath's, mostly there's less of it. Niggurath's videos have so much continuous voiceover that the tonal and verbal tricks he uses to place emotion get noticible and stale, which doesn't happen with your videos- you're trusting readers to piece things together more, you're letting the game do more of the work, and you're willing to put more mechanical discussion in the thread rather than the video. Of course, that's easier with this game than, say, FF3 with all its intricacies. Woah. Outlast is a much simpler game than the sort of things Niggurath's covered. Finding a tonal balance in a game like Fatal Frame is a lot harder than it is here, I'd expect. Also he's been doing LPs for a while. I'm sure my tonal choices could be called 'noticable and stale' if I had that many videos down! Still. Thanks for the praise, even if I don't really agree with it!
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Jul 11, 2014 08:28
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quote:As for the sprinting... debate... it loses a lot of its gusto in the higher difficulties. As I said, I decided to play on a lower difficulty to give myself a little room for error, since the timecodes on the camera make it hard for me to replay a segment and cut it together smoothly without anything looking out of place. It gives me more wiggle room to be cinematic. Also I'm not very good at video games I find nothing to be ashamed of with that. This LP is clearly meant to be a more cinematic experience, and you've done a drat good job of "roleplaying" Miles and making it feel more like a first-person movie and less like me just watching a guy play a video game.
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Jul 11, 2014 10:51
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DumbRodent posted:
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Jul 11, 2014 10:56
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So, if anyone was wondering, it is fully possible to be scared watching this at 12.04, on a blistering hot summers day, in a café surrounded by people. I was a bit disappointed that there wasn't more of a reaction to finally getting outside, nor about the prospect of actually going back into the asylum. It feels like our protagonist would be relieved to be outside, and try to at least find a way back to his car before resigning himself to do as father Martin wishes
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Jul 11, 2014 11:24
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Well, there's outside, and then there's outside, in the rain, still confined within asylum grounds, with lunatic and stalkers still around, as well as some grim, grinning ghost coming out to socialize. I don't think I'd be too excited either.
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Jul 11, 2014 11:55
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resurgam40 posted:Well, there's outside, and then there's outside, in the rain, still confined within asylum grounds, with lunatic and stalkers still around, as well as some grim, grinning ghost coming out to socialize. Oh, I get that, but how does he know he is still on asylum grounds, before he explores and realises he I surrounded by buildings? Is he even surrounded by buildings, and if not, why doesn't he try to climb a fence or something? There is just the prompt to find father Martin, and then, suddenly, to find him in the female ward, and none of this gets even a comment from Miles.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:20
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Thesaya posted:Oh, I get that, but how does he know he is still on asylum grounds, before he explores and realises he I surrounded by buildings? Is he even surrounded by buildings, and if not, why doesn't he try to climb a fence or something? Because it's a scripted videogame.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:36
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Brumaldo posted:Because it's a scripted videogame. Which doesn't mean they couldn't have Miles write a note, saying something along the lines of "Finally outside, but of course it is an inner courtyard" or have him say something when he goes back in. I am not saying we should be able to get back to the car, just that it would have been nice with an illusion of hope, for immersions sake.
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Jul 11, 2014 12:50
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DumbRodent posted:
I'm actually in the middle of watching Niggurath's Fatal Frame 1 LP and the fact that he never shuts up is incredibly distracting and immersion-breaking for me. I think the way you're doing things really helps to preserve the atmosphere; just enough commentary to explain what's going on without simply parroting back whatever Miles happens to be doing at the time.
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Jul 11, 2014 13:02
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Thesaya posted:Which doesn't mean they couldn't have Miles write a note, saying something along the lines of "Finally outside, but of course it is an inner courtyard" or have him say something when he goes back in. I am not saying we should be able to get back to the car, just that it would have been nice with an illusion of hope, for immersions sake. I don't think fumbling around in the dark, under the rain would feel hopeful in the slightest. If anything the little hallway with the glowing EXIT sign at the end, with only pitch blackness beyond, just feels foreboding. You're probably just overthinking things because you're detached from the game, watching an LP and all. Speaking of Niggurath, he's incredibly loving overrated in my opinion. DumbRodent's commentary is actually appropriate and helps create a really nice mood for the LP, whereas Niggurath's mall announcement commentary is just annoying. I'm incredibly pissed that there are no other Fatal Frame LPs, because I can't watch that poo poo. So please OP go ahead and do Dead Space next, I'd be glad for that. I could also use a new Siren 1/2 LP, but that's another story...
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Jul 11, 2014 13:08
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This episode got me twice. Twice. I jumped so much I nearly dropped my jam and cream scone!  I hate it when poo poo runs straight at you out of nowhere. gently caress Walrider  Please keep up the great work! Brumaldo posted:DumbRodent's commentary is actually appropriate and helps create a really nice mood for the LP, whereas Niggurath's mall announcement commentary is just annoying. I'm incredibly pissed that there are no other Fatal Frame LPs, because I can't watch that poo poo. You could always watch one of the youtube let's plays of it While I get that everyone has different tastes in let's play, I think you're going a bit far calling Niggurath's videos poo poo. After attempting to watch a few blind lps of Fatal Frame I can really appreciate the amount of effort that he puts into them. Either way, hope you manage to find a playthrough you enjoy.
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Jul 11, 2014 14:17
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The best Fatal Frame LP I've ever seen was a guy live streaming it and getting super wasted while playing. It was loving magic.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:34
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