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GreenMarine posted:Oh god, don't talk to me about Infused Bones!!! I still can't ever get those things to drop. That's funny, I can't get mine to sell any more (for more than 2 gold apiece on Pergo, that is).
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Jul 10, 2014 17:36
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Colgate posted:I'm torn. I like the aesthetic of this game, and the classes look interesting and I'm very interested in the Paths. On the other hand, max level seems like a real downer. I've had enough of attunement chains, rep grinds and 40-man content in previous MMOs, and as far as PVP, I'm spoiled by WvW modes in Guild Wars (as well as DaoC)  But yeah, there is not a tremendous amount to do at 50 yet if you don't want to bother with raiding, since their target audience is pretty squarely "vanilla WoW raiders." I never played WoW and am not terribly interested in raiding either, but I'm obsessed with crafting and love alts, so I'm just wasting time with that stuff until they introduce more 50 content for my type of player.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:38
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Panic! at Nabisco posted:People only really talk about them as stepping-stones toward raiding, but vet adventures and vet dungeons are pretty good 50 content. Plus there's crafting. There's daily zones, dungeons, adventures, pvp, raids what other 50 content could they add?
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Jul 10, 2014 17:40
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You're just as likely to have rating-tanks on your team as the enemy team, and higher-end players stomping lower-end players for shits and giggles will always be a thing, forever, even if it just comes down to a skill thing. It takes a long time for a class to be restructured and iterated on, and of course they're going to take it slow even if it's been "a year" since Esper was reported on as being annoying, because with the ever-evolving nature of MMO gaming, a new meta could have been discovered once more of a sample-size got their hands on the class. Of course they waited until live for it. Players will bitch about anything.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:45
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Colgate posted:I'm torn. I like the aesthetic of this game, and the classes look interesting and I'm very interested in the Paths. On the other hand, max level seems like a real downer. I've had enough of attunement chains, rep grinds and 40-man content in previous MMOs, and as far as PVP, I'm spoiled by WvW modes in Guild Wars (as well as DaoC) Just play it, get a guy or two to max level (it takes long enough and the world is enjoyable even if they haven't really nailed down questing as well as Blizzard has which is no surprise) and then if you don't like the end game stuff put the game on hold for a while and try it out again later or whatever. It's not like you're being forced to commit to the game as a job you are forced to play.
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Jul 10, 2014 17:51
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So what would you people say the main pros/cons of the game are?
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Jul 10, 2014 18:07
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Elswyyr posted:So what would you people say the main pros/cons of the game are? Pros: Excellent gameplay, group content / raids are genuinely challenging Cons: Zero quality of life features, lots of bugs, group content being genuinely challenging means it's almost impossible to adequately PUG.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:10
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Sab669 posted:Cons: Zero quality of life features
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Jul 10, 2014 18:19
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Elswyyr posted:So what would you people say the main pros/cons of the game are? + Awesome fighting gameplay. I can't even imagine how boring it will be to go back to WOW and just point at a mob and wail on it without having to dodge around and stuff. + Awesome art & setting. Sci-fi MMO, yase. + Housing + Basically made by ex WOW peeps so it is the closest to WOW I've ever seen an MMO. + Addons fix most crap with this the UI. - One of the worst UIs I've seen in a while, but can be fixed with addons. WAY too much poo poo going on, without much explanation. It feels a lot like Minecraft where you are FORCED to read a wiki on poo poo to even understand a good half of it. - Bugs. New MMO bugs. - Haven't had 10 years of slow quality of life improvements WOW has had. - Classes are a bit unbalanced right now, engineers' pets are little retarded and people complain about Espers not being really user friendly yet. Plus naming a class Medic is kind of stupid, it makes people think it is 100% healer. - Paths suck. You can't change them, and picking them is pretty arbitrary to start but then you're stuck with it. They should REALLY allow you to change your path without remaking your whole character. I picked Explorer because it sounded neat, but half of the quests suck (they don't add to leveling XP, just path XP, so they are kind of huge time wasters) and the skills kind of blow. Unless they change this poo poo 100% of people are going to like never go explorer again. - Endgame PVE seems very vanilla hardcore-esque - Anime furry bunny ear stupid cat girls gently caress. It makes me never want to play Exile ever. This may just be me though. All in all the pluses outweigh the negatives. I think people just honestly have their standards too far up from wanting a WOW clone to be a real thing made by Blizzard with almost 11 years of MMO experience with a huge staff/funding slush fund budget. Give this game a chance, it will probably get better for endgame stuff. Honestly, I'm pretty sick of WOW and would love to dive into the world of Wildstar a lot more than WOW ever again, I just am one of the folks that wish somehow that the entire Blizzard staff of WOW could be cloned and moved to Wildstar instead of stupid fantasy poo poo WOW. jeeves fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 18:21
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Elswyyr posted:Could you elaborate on this? Um, a few things that immediately come to mind: The general UI is very... busy, to say the least. If you want to make cloth as a Tailor, you can't just queue up making 20 bolts of cloth. You make one, it closes the crafting window. You open the crafting window, make another. Your gear has sockets you can insert runes into, which the game vaguely introduces you to very early on but because Rune Fragments are somewhat expensive it's in no way a good idea to do while leveling since you're replacing gear so frequently. Similar to my cloth example, if you want to make Runes you craft them one at a time. Oh and Runecrafting is a thing everyone has access to, but you can only look at Rune materials when you're at the rune crafting ("engraving") station. So you go there, write down what materials you need to make the runes, run to the AH to buy what you don't have (or farm them), then go back to the engraving station to actually make the gear. There's no "Sell all junk" button on vendors. If you're in a party some quests give your whole party credit... Some don't. No rhyme or reason. Only thing we can think of is "Maybe a senior dev made this one, and a junior dev made this one" There are many and more issues but I've been playing less and less as time goes on, these are just the very first ones that I can think of. In regards to people saying "Well WoW has a decade of dev experience!" I get that, I truly do. But at the same time, the people at Carbine have at least played other MMO's, right? It's like they didn't learn at all what other MMO's have done to try and implement similar features in their own game. There are just certain things that make me say "Did Carbine even do this? They must've realized it's clunky and sucks" Sab669 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 18:40
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Cons: I can't be a Granok because we're Dominion.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:41
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Sab669 posted:Cons: Zero quality of life features Yeah I'm not sure I agree with this either. It has all of the standard MMO stuff that it should have. I'm talking mailboxes, banks, guild banks, flightpaths, bind points, battleground/dungeon queuing, mounts, auction house, commodities exchange, quest item inventory, crafting mats inventory, costume slots, armor dyes, etc. Sab669 posted:Um, a few things that immediately come to mind: These sound like some very specific complaints that could be made better, yeah, but it's not the same as saying the game has no QOL features anywhere. No game is perfect, especially not an MMO, but Wildstar is pretty good overall.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:44
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Okay maybe saying zero was an overstatement, but there are a lot of really basic things that, as I said, make me go "How did they not think of this?"
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Jul 10, 2014 18:45
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Sab669 posted:
This is my favorite in terms of crafting basic items (like those reclaimed relic parts on the technologist, power cores, or cloth) since even bloody EverQuest by now lets you queue up tradeskill combines 
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Jul 10, 2014 18:49
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I think the main problem is that most people want this game to be an exact copy of WOW besides the better combat gameplay/art/lore/setting/etc. Honestly, I kind of wish so too, but got to get over it. At least there are a ton of addons to help fix a lot of the stupid UI poo poo.
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Jul 10, 2014 18:52
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Colgate posted:Is there anything else to do really at endgame? I'm weighing in on whether to purchase this game or not. If you're in a raid Guild then you can raid (but that's subject to the normal restrictions of human timetables). If you're not in a raid Guild then you're probably attuning (with the unpleasant knowledge that you'll need to abandon your buddies if/when you succeed), but you might you hit a brick wall somewhere and postpone it. If you're not interested in raiding then you can run shiphands missions or adventures for fun (knowing that the rewards will be lousy). If you're skilled and reasonably geared then you can veteran dungeons for gear progression (you don't run dungeons for profit because the good loot is bind-on-pickup and the repair costs can be steep), but PUGging is a dicey proposition so you'll want to join a Guild. If you're in a strong Guild and you have voice comms and strong gear then you can run dungeons for fun and excitement (or to help junior Guildmates gear-up). If you're at the level cap and you need money (or have nothing better to do) then you can run daily quests for profit (but they're pretty bleh in terms of content). You can run through old questing zones to assist guildmates (or just for the sake of exploration/completion) but your stats don't scale down completely (so it's too easy) and the rewards don't scale up to your level. You can invade an opposite-faction zone and gank lowbies but you'll get nothing for it (the game wisely awards nothing for such kills in order to discourage low-effort griefing). And you can do actual PvP; my experience there is minimal but others can comment on it. The Housing system is top-notch; you can do some really creative stuff with it. The Barbie-dress-up side of things is also pretty strong (and can only improve as more outfits and costumes are added) but the game does apply a fee (which can be very steep) whenever you change the color of your gear. Tradeskills are interesting (including a mix of skill and randomness), but they're time-gated at endgame. The population hasn't really stabilized and sorted itself out yet. There will probably be a community of people who run dungeons daily (just for the challenge/thrill) without intending to participate in raid content; you might fit into that group. jeeves posted:- Haven't had 10 years of slow quality of life improvements WOW has had. quote:+ Addons fix most crap with this the UI. I have no qualms about fixing QoL issues (I'd like to see a "customizable telegraph color" Add-On, because fighting on green terrain with colorblindness is really difficult), but I'm less comfortable about Add-Ons which can provide a competitive advantage to the user. Then again I didn't play WoW so maybe I'm just some kind of weird UI-purist idiot who needs to accept that QoL improvements are built on the same API as gameplay-advantage stuff and so you can't have one without the other.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:07
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Given the rate they push out content, it sounds like a lot of it was already in the pipes and I suscpet a lot of the QoL stuff that wasn't necessary to ship ended up getting cut/pushed back so they could release. Just the reality of the business world trampling on the ideal gaming one. Also nobody's mentioned shields, which I think are a cool idea. Maybe other games had them but if they did I didn't play them. When you're questing you basically have an amount of damage you can take that doesn't get you into gankable range that oftentimes regenerates between mobs, and in group play a lot of times it means you can make missteps on the more hectic telegraphs that can be harder to dodge and you get 1 hit nearly free as long as you aren't hit long enough for them to recharge (~15s).
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Jul 10, 2014 19:18
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GulMadred posted:(I'd like to see a "customizable telegraph color" Add-On, because fighting on green terrain with colorblindness is really difficult) I want fully customizable telegraph colors too, but in the meantime, have you checked out the colorblindness settings at the bottom of the combat options? As far as I know the only thing they do is change the telegraph colors.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:25
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GulMadred posted:"have one global marketplace across all servers because a larger marketplace is less susceptible to manipulation and will have smaller bid-ask spreads" and "don't allow players to place market orders below NPC vendor price." Have you considered this omission might be deliberate since demand is naturally different on differently progressed realms and pve vs pvp realms? Players on a PvE realm are almost certainly going to level faster than players on a PvP realm, meaning on average players on a PvE realm have access to more currency, creating baseline currency imbalance between realms. Certain guilds have extremely deep pockets from their ability to run farm time on their own realms and giving them the ability to control the economy on other realms is probably not something that would keep the game playable. Eldercain posted:Also nobody's mentioned shields, which I think are a cool idea. Maybe other games had them but if they did I didn't play them. When you're questing you basically have an amount of damage you can take that doesn't get you into gankable range that oftentimes regenerates between mobs, and in group play a lot of times it means you can make missteps on the more hectic telegraphs that can be harder to dodge and you get 1 hit nearly free as long as you aren't hit long enough for them to recharge (~15s). Shields are neat until encounter balance varies based on the ability to heal shields. It's one of the reasons Medics can be considered stronger for 5-man content in a vacuum (with the acknowledgement of their limitations, certainly), they can maintain players' effective health pools at a higher frequency due to being able to heal shields. This might be a grass is greener thing from having played as a non-medic healer, but I feel like Medics have way more control over how well they can save players in the lava tubes in Skullcano, for example. The tradeoff is at-will absorbs, range, and target count, but in certain situations this unique ability is very very powerful. Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 19:26
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Also there's Warplots. But I have no loving clue what they're about. They should be like a giant BG instead of needing 40 people to queue (or so I've heard).
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Jul 10, 2014 19:29
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Zoness posted:Have you considered this omission might be deliberate since demand is naturally different on differently progressed realms and pve vs pvp realms? Players on a PvE realm are almost certainly going to level faster than players on a PvP realm, meaning on average players on a PvE realm have access to more currency, creating baseline currency imbalance between realms. Certain guilds have extremely deep pockets from their ability to run farm time on their own realms and giving them the ability to control the economy on other realms is probably not something that would keep the game playable. Oh please "level faster" most people get ganked maybe once a day and it slows you down for a few minutes there is no big difference in speed.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:31
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Zoness posted:Have you considered this omission might be deliberate since demand is naturally different on differently progressed realms and pve vs pvp realms? Players on a PvE realm are almost certainly going to level faster than players on a PvP realm, meaning on average players on a PvE realm have access to more currency, creating baseline currency imbalance between realms. Certain guilds have extremely deep pockets from their ability to run farm time on their own realms and giving them the ability to control the economy on other realms is probably not something that would keep the game playable. I'd love to see it just to see the impact of Globalization in a local virtual market, though.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:31
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Leveling to 1-50 on a PVP Server I think I was initiated on in the open world a single digit number of times. Extremely rare to be trifled with unless you are looking for trouble yourself. A lot of times I worked with enemy players to tag/kill elite mobs that were too hard for us to solo because I'm a traitorous son of a bitch like that.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:32
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Zoness posted:Have you considered this omission might be deliberate since demand is naturally different on differently progressed realms and pve vs pvp realms? Players on a PvE realm are almost certainly going to level faster than players on a PvP realm, meaning on average players on a PvE realm have access to more currency, creating baseline currency imbalance between realms. Certain guilds have extremely deep pockets from their ability to run farm time on their own realms and giving them the ability to control the economy on other realms is probably not something that would keep the game playable. On the other hand it's nice to actually have stuff to purchase. In GW2 there was no shortage of gear and weapons, but just keeping it locally to a server you have nothing between level 1-49. Also the only time I've been attacked on my alt was by a guy in Wigiwali and he died instantly.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:32
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socialsecurity posted:Oh please "level faster" most people get ganked maybe once a day and it slows you down for a few minutes there is no big difference in speed. So I take it you haven't had someone camp your last quest hub in a zone? Like, to the extent that after I completed the zone and came back after hitting level cap they were still there? Even if they're not even remotely capable of killing you they can significantly slow down your progress. I know that on my server, I found an exile trying (not the same one each time) to kill me several times in just about every other quest hub I was in, starting from level 26 in whitevale but really ramping up in Malgrave. Maybe this isn't the typical experience, but the impact it had on my leveling rate wasn't trivial. Of course, this is on Pergo and not Warbringer, but I think that this happens differently on a realm-to-realm basis only bolsters my point with regards to keeping markets realm (and possibly faction) limited. Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Jul 10, 2014 |
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Jul 10, 2014 19:36
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Zoness posted:Of course, this is on Pergo and not Warbringer, but I think that this happens differently on a realm-to-realm basis only bolsters my point with regards to keeping markets realm (and possibly faction) limited. This also affected by how close to launch you levelled, on Contaigon EU The first few 50s in guild didn't get much Ganking but those who were behind us had a lot of trouble with people camping
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Jul 10, 2014 19:42
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If we're bitching about random Wildstar things the thing I want to see them improve most is the auction house/commodity market. Not being able to search for 'dye' because there's too many results and you need to be more specific while also not being able to see past the first few results if you manually go to the 'dye' category because there are too many results is so awful. Can't find a drat thing because if too many people are selling a thing then it won't show you them because there are too many results.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:45
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Stormgale posted:This also affected by how close to launch you levelled, on Contaigon EU The first few 50s in guild didn't get much Ganking but those who were behind us had a lot of trouble with people camping Exactly this too, I only managed to ding 40 or so before the official launch (and took a 6 hour nap halfway through whitevale leveling from when the servers were up) so catching up with the 50's caught me constant ganks. The currency difference from that week's difference was pretty nontrivial, at least in that first week. By comparison, Enigma and Eugenic had people in GA before we even had 20 people at level 50.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:47
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jeeves posted:I think the main problem is that most people want this game to be an exact copy of WoW This is even what the dev team are after though.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:57
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Zoness posted:Shields are neat until encounter balance varies based on the ability to heal shields. It's one of the reasons Medics can be considered stronger for 5-man content in a vacuum (with the acknowledgement of their limitations, certainly), they can maintain players' effective health pools at a higher frequency due to being able to heal shields. This might be a grass is greener thing from having played as a non-medic healer, but I feel like Medics have way more control over how well they can save players in the lava tubes in Skullcano, for example. The tradeoff is at-will absorbs, range, and target count, but in certain situations this unique ability is very very powerful. A good Medic with a good team probably do have the largest amount of benefits as far as healers go, but Medic is kind of designed to be high skillcap, in that way. In my current stats, a T8 Shield Surge has the potential of landing 11,607 Shield. Energize gives 25% Mitigation, and Shield Surge gives another 25% Mitigation, making Shield an effective extension of the HP bar, so for the cost of 2 Actuators and 40 Focus, I have the capability of doing a 12,000 HP heal on a 1.5 second cast. To actually land this, I have to a) not hit any enemies with shield surge (difficult when healing the tank who is humping the boss), and b) hit an ally with fully depleted shields. Stalkers get that dumb AMP that everyone takes that sometimes restores shield, and Engineers and IIRC Warriors have methods of recovering shield too, so poor communication or bad timing will instantly halve the Shield throughput. Additionally, Medics leave a lot to be desired for sustained healing - their best option is T4 Flash, which is extremely Focus intensive - and have nearly no meaningful burst HP healing. To make the best of their tools, a Medic has to land Shield Surge quickly after the tank's shields are depleted, and preferably not let them lose HP at all. The way I look at it is that the three healers have their specific strong roles: Esper - Sustained healing Spellslinger - Burst healing Medic - Preventative healing
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Jul 10, 2014 19:58
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poptart_fairy posted:This is even what the dev team are after though. Yeah, but they seem to have gotten stuck in Burning Crusade, when Wrath was the unobjectively best expansion Blizzard has made and will ever do. It's a bit of a swing and a miss at this point, but there's still time I guess for them to maybe tone down some of the tedious stuff and make a real game out of it.
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Jul 10, 2014 19:59
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Sab669 posted:The general UI is very... busy, to say the least. These are all fixable with addons. GreenMarine posted:Oh god, don't talk to me about Infused Bones!!! I still can't ever get those things to drop. Did I miss out on something or is it just the ranged fixes which will slightly improve but not fundamentally change the stalker problems. The class has terrible control, decent burst, and poor sustained damage (in PVP). You can effectively turn stalkers off by standing on top of a teammate in pvp making stalker/healer combos dumb as poo poo. I also have a really really huge issue with with the inability to get decent poo poo casually. I don't mind grinding out for some sorta poo poo tier epics, it's fun. You can have your entire pvp blue set before you hit 20 and there is nothing else left to do with casual pvp, everything else is gated by rating which is currently a clusterfuck on its own. I still have fun actually playing the game though.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:04
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Bashez posted:I also have a really really huge issue with with the inability to get decent poo poo casually. I don't mind grinding out for some sorta poo poo tier epics, it's fun. You can have your entire pvp blue set before you hit 20 and there is nothing else left to do with casual pvp, everything else is gated by rating which is currently a clusterfuck on its own. Rating gated pvp gear is a terrible design because in order to get into the rating where you can buy that gear, you generally have to beat at least 1 team that already has that gear. If you are really truly matched with people who are about your skill level, that's kind of a deal breaker. Then again I think mmo pvp is terrible anyways.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:21
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Eldercain posted:Rating gated pvp gear is a terrible design because in order to get into the rating where you can buy that gear, you generally have to beat at least 1 team that already has that gear. If you are really truly matched with people who are about your skill level, that's kind of a deal breaker. Pretty sure WoW fixed or changed this, yet WS devs decided not to follow the logic.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:22
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I never quite understood the need for a "PVP" stat in the first place honestly, seems like it just discourages the average player from hopping in.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:23
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I believe the issue with that was that the best PvE gear also ended up being the best PvP gear.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:29
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socialsecurity posted:I never quite understood the need for a "PVP" stat in the first place honestly, seems like it just discourages the average player from hopping in. It's so that people who raid aren't guaranteed to also be the best PVPers, because obviously raid gear > everything else in terms of stats.
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Jul 10, 2014 20:29
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J-Tal posted:There is a fix in for increasing the world drop rate of the AMP and Ability Tier point items by a significant number. A series of unfortunate nested loot tables caused the current rate to be about 100x more rare than it should have been. This should be addressed in a future hotfix/weekly update. heheh
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Jul 10, 2014 21:10
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Sab669 posted:It's so that people who raid aren't guaranteed to also be the best PVPers, because obviously raid gear > everything else in terms of stats. And if you put PvP gear on the same level as raid drops you'll have every poopsocking loser in the game screaming for your head. GW2 did PvP gearing right, pity they didn't get the game modes and maps down.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:22
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My biggest question for the entire time I've been playing this game is why the gently caress is there an NPC who stands next to the PVP Vendor in Thayd and loudly fires off a handcannon once a second for all of eternity. I can't even think through my purchases without muting my game because it's literally blowing out my ear drums.
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Jul 10, 2014 21:43
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