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It is worth nothing that we didn't actually send any troops to Ixachitlan for this war, we only had our 20,000 strong colonial force and most of the fighting was done by our colonies. They have grown to the point where they can defend themselves, which puts a different kind of pressure on their relationship with Lübeck. The Aztecs are in a similar place to the Ottoman Empire in the 19th century, even if it is not an exact parallel. They enjoyed a position of hegemony for several centuries, but eventually they stagnated and their antagonistic relationship with every neighbor drove them to political isolation. Worse, many of their best and brightest have migrated to New Aztlan or Mahuatiquez, growing powers in their own right. The nations who have us as rivals right now are an interesting collection. The Shoshone, Incas, Malaya, Poland, Scandinavia and Kilwa. Of these, the Incas are stronger than the Hansa, but they don't have the naval or diplomatic reach to threaten us. Malaya can very likely beat both us and the Shun on the seas and then take over every isle in the Pacific, but they have softer targets in the Oste Wasi and Scotland, so they'd rather bully those nations instead. Our other rivals aren't much of a threat, but I have been purposefully avoiding any aggression against Kilwa or the Shoshone, as I want them around for V2, where they may become more credible opponents. Italy, New Aztlan, Altaia, Karnata, Latin Empire, Ukraine, Neubauten and the Shun are all real threats. Three of which have been neutered through diplomacy, while Italy and the Latins simply have different interests even if our paths cross due to tangled alliances. The Altaics do threaten our Ukrainian allies, and the Rurikovich are often starved for manpower due to supporting the Emperor in various campaigns. Karnata wants our colonies but, like Malaya, they have softer targets to pursue. And Neubauten, well, they are certainly a problem in the long-term, as even if they remain loyal subjects well into V2 they remain a prime candidate to Great Powering their way into independence and challenging Lübeck for control of the other colonies.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:29
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Can we get a world map by the way? That would be super helpful.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:37
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By the way, what is the condition for the Timurid Empire to become the Altaic Confederation? Weak claim heir or something?
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Jul 11, 2014 04:41
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 This one from 1731 is mostly accurate, with the exception of the results of the two wars we just fought.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:42
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Have the Carthaginians-in-exile ever been relevant to anything? I'm honestly expecting the Inka to take them out any day now.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:43
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The Manchus-in-exile are a tad amusing. Also, the Oirats (?) are still doing pretty well for themselves, despite being stuck between two great powers. Edit: Also Ethiopia.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:47
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Qart Haddasht bounced back pretty solidly to my surprise, actually. They are almost unifying New Canaan and have even regained territory in Africa. They enjoy a pretty solid alliance with New Aztlan and Mahuatiquez and are a major naval power.GSD posted:By the way, what is the condition for the Timurid Empire to become the Altaic Confederation? Weak claim heir or something? Turning into any kind of republic does it, but that is a good second option for when I update the mod again.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:47
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I would assume the justification for the Hansa's huge rear end army is lots and lots of mercenaries? 200,000 troops is a lot when our total population(in V2 terms) is like, what, 5 million? One in twenty five men is part of a professional armed service. That isn't too bad, but it is really quite high. What's our max manpower?
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Jul 11, 2014 04:48
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I like the Shawnee and Cherokee blips - they stopped trying to make sense of what's going on a long time ago.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:51
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Sampatrick posted:I would assume the justification for the Hansa's huge rear end army is lots and lots of mercenaries? 200,000 troops is a lot when our total population(in V2 terms) is like, what, 5 million? One in twenty five men is part of a professional armed service. That isn't too bad, but it is really quite high. What's our max manpower? And foreign legions under direct control of the League, since a lot of our forcelimit comes from having colonial subjects. Maximum manpower is at ~127k, which is probably a closer number to men under arms, but I wouldn't give it that much thought as game mechanics trump simulation in EU4. It is only V2 where each soldier correlates to a POP.
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Jul 11, 2014 04:54
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Sampatrick posted:Uh just because we had 'control' over territory in the eastern seaboard doesn't mean jack poo poo in regards to whether or not we actually controlled the territory. I would argue that we claimed most of the eastern seaboard, but it would've taken until like 1650 before we really had any actual control over the territory. Also, 200 years is a long rear end time, but remember that they were still increasing in population as we began to claim land in America. They've had no major wars or occupations of their territory since it was claimed; I would expect that their population is AT LEAST at it's pre epidemic levels, and likely slightly or maybe even significantly higher than that. Also I never said the population or economy are comparable to India, I said the colonial government is probably similar to the British East India Company. If the epidemics were anything like they were in our time though, the population would need to multiply tenfold to get back to pre-epidemic levels. Remember, for the majority of the coastal territory Neubaten owns, they didn't conquer the area from the natives, they showed up with colonists because the land was mostly empty. For context here, the global population dropped by about 20% during the Black Death, and it took about 200 years to recover from that 20% drop. Historically, the New World plagues turned The Americas outside of New Spain into a literal post-apocalyptic wasteland (albeit one so pretty that the colonists of the time had no idea of the extent of what had happened just prior to their arrival in earnest). Up to 90% of the population of the New World may have died in the epidemics, in the majority of the continent before the first European colonist even set foot on the area. If anything remotely approaching that scenario happened in this timeline, the native population of Eastern North America isn't going to be anywhere near the sort of population levels where an East India Company style of government is going to be the rule of the day. Those areas in the LP are Christian and German cultured, and sadly I see no reason to believe that's not because the natives in those areas are almost all dead, just like in our history.
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Jul 11, 2014 10:28
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ZearothK, I dunno why your LP is getting audited, I'm thoroughly enjoying it at least as much as I enjoyed Hohenzollern or the Jerusalem AAR. 
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Jul 11, 2014 13:22
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I'm still enjoying reading the lp a lot, too. With these things, the style of writing is half the fun, tbh. But I do get how being invaded by two huge armies during a 'time of troubles' and losing nothing at all does underline that this lp is following a country that is currently too big to really fail. When compared to the likes of Denmark, Ghana and Azerbaijan being smashed to pieces in other lps and I can see why people are saying there's a lack of tension. This Hansa is currently in a position where it's never really in any real danger, it's simply too big and too rich. But like I said it's the style of writing in the updates that keeps me reading more than the events and it is really enjoyable and readable which is the main thing.
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Jul 11, 2014 14:27
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And personally, while I do enjoy the narrative style of the LP, I think the fact that the author is not intentionally neutering himself to be a refreshing change of pace. Most of the other LPs like this "shake it up" just by deliberately losing every once in a while, which is in itself getting a little old. It's nice seeing someone setting themselves a challenge and then playing to win for a change.
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Jul 11, 2014 14:45
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Reveilled posted:If the epidemics were anything like they were in our time though, the population would need to multiply tenfold to get back to pre-epidemic levels. Remember, for the majority of the coastal territory Neubaten owns, they didn't conquer the area from the natives, they showed up with colonists because the land was mostly empty. Uh half of what you just said is wrong. You're operating from this point of view where all the disease death happened all at once. This is not what happened in the Americas. What happened, and the reason why the population became so small, is that outbreaks of diseases like Smallpox kept on happening over long periods of time. In this timeline, we had a single outbreak of smallpox which, as far as has been told to us, was the only significant outbreak. In this timeline, we have to assume that the natives possessed a greater ability to withstand the plagues, which means that the people who would've died didn't. I would expect that in this timeline, smallpox was about as deadly as the bubonic plague in Europe; otherwise, all of the native states would have collapsed because their work force was dead. Also, I would assume based on the presence of Vinland that the natives already went through a smallpox epidemic in the past, which would explain why they didn't all die from this epidemic; they had already recovered from the apocalypse, and now had an immune system equipped to handle Eurasian diseases.
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Jul 11, 2014 17:21
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Sampatrick posted:Uh half of what you just said is wrong. You're operating from this point of view where all the disease death happened all at once. This is not what happened in the Americas. What happened, and the reason why the population became so small, is that outbreaks of diseases like Smallpox kept on happening over long periods of time. In this timeline, we had a single outbreak of smallpox which, as far as has been told to us, was the only significant outbreak. In this timeline, we have to assume that the natives possessed a greater ability to withstand the plagues, which means that the people who would've died didn't. I would expect that in this timeline, smallpox was about as deadly as the bubonic plague in Europe; otherwise, all of the native states would have collapsed because their work force was dead. Also, I would assume based on the presence of Vinland that the natives already went through a smallpox epidemic in the past, which would explain why they didn't all die from this epidemic; they had already recovered from the apocalypse, and now had an immune system equipped to handle Eurasian diseases. Also I think it has been argued that the reason why americans didn't suffer the same kind of plagues that Europeans did and so were so utterly helpless against European diseases is the lack of urban tradition and paucity of domestic animals. Even though the Americas did have a couple thousand years of the kind of urban society and domestication that gives rise to new diseases, those societies are much younger than in Eurasia and those urban societies were in isolated geographic pockets and had a tendency to be only intermittently urbanized. Each time one of these societies ended, trade routes dried up and the population plummeted, effectively curtailing the rise and spread of any American Plague. The Aztecs and the Iroquois and the Incans etc, had no silk road. They weren't connected by trade and rumours and population movement like the big empires in Eurasia were. In this timeline that isn't the case. Ixachitlan has ancient, well connected urban cultures. It's not hard to argue that in that timeline the americans would naturally more experience with plagues and be better placed to survive them even without Vinland. Not that smallpox etc still wouldn't be devastating because they still would have no exposure to Eurasian diseases but they also might have their own plagues which would hurt the europeans in a timeline like this. Cestrian fucked around with this message at 17:34 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 17:31
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 (this banner down here is a link)  (that banner up there is a link) 
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Jul 11, 2014 18:29
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Such a fool. Let's go exploring!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:31
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Explore!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:32
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Well, the Oeste Wasi would have warned us if there were any danger. Into the Necropolis we go!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:33
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Clearly we need to investigate!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:33
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 It begins.Exploring time!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:34
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Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to R'LYEH FHTAGN we go But seriously what sort of people would we be if this DIDN'T make us intensely curious?
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Jul 11, 2014 18:34
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You gotta explore to find the gold that rules the world.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:35
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Selatan, I am such a fool for you
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Jul 11, 2014 18:36
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Let that which is eternal lie.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:37
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Sampatrick posted:Uh half of what you just said is wrong. You're operating from this point of view where all the disease death happened all at once. This is not what happened in the Americas. What happened, and the reason why the population became so small, is that outbreaks of diseases like Smallpox kept on happening over long periods of time. In this timeline, we had a single outbreak of smallpox which, as far as has been told to us, was the only significant outbreak. In this timeline, we have to assume that the natives possessed a greater ability to withstand the plagues, which means that the people who would've died didn't. I would expect that in this timeline, smallpox was about as deadly as the bubonic plague in Europe; otherwise, all of the native states would have collapsed because their work force was dead. Also, I would assume based on the presence of Vinland that the natives already went through a smallpox epidemic in the past, which would explain why they didn't all die from this epidemic; they had already recovered from the apocalypse, and now had an immune system equipped to handle Eurasian diseases. You are understating the impact of the initial outbreaks of european diseases in Eastern North America, as well as in other areas. Look at, say, Hernando de Soto's description of Arkansas as being "thickly set with great towns", each possessing walls and moats, and no town so far from another that a neighbouring settlement was not visible from the one you happened to be in. His expedition brought disease, and by the time the next european visited the area just a hundred years later over 90% of the population was dead, and the area described as being only sparsely settled. I don't see that we have to assume that the natives inherently possessed a greater ability to withstand the plague, it may simply have been the case that the Aztecs and Incas possessed greater knowledge of quarantine procedures in this timeline than in the historical one. That knowledge would not necessarily transfer to the eastern american natives. We know that some of the the populations decimated by the epidemics survived in this timeline, but that was true even in our own time, and there no particular reason to suppose that the groups that survived in Eastern North America in this timeline are much materially different in the manner of their survival to the groups in our own. You assume that the Vinlanders already brought smallpox over before the epidemic described in the LP, but there is no real reason to suppose that happened (as you yourself said "we had a single outbreak of smallpox which, as far as has been told to us, was the only significant outbreak") and even if it did it would then become an example of outbreaks happening over long periods of time (not just in this case, but if we suppose there was already one outbreak we didn't hear about, we cannot then suppose there was only one additional outbreak), which you argued was a cause in our own timeline of the destruction of the native populations.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:38
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Iäh Iäh, let us explore
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Jul 11, 2014 18:40
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Enter the Depths
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Jul 11, 2014 18:43
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Explore it.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:44
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There's gold in them there non-Euclidean hills.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:47
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Let's see how far this rabbit hole goes.
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Jul 11, 2014 18:50
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Nope! Not going in there. You can't make me! I wanna live dammit!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:51
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Exploration leads to gold!
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Jul 11, 2014 18:55
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Hangin' with the Yithians, let's go!
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Jul 11, 2014 19:05
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Small Frozen Thing posted:Hangin' with the Yithians, let's go! Which issues would matter to Yithian population group in a V2 conversion, I wonder? Equal rights for shoggoths?
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Jul 11, 2014 19:08
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PurpleXVI posted:Which issues would matter to Yithian population group in a V2 conversion, I wonder? Equal rights for shoggoths? I imagine education would be pretty important. They probably would be pretty big on flying polyp oppression.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:17
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PurpleXVI posted:Hi ho, hi ho, it's off to R'LYEH FHTAGN we go  
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Jul 11, 2014 19:27
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I really like seven.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:28
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| # ? Jun 8, 2024 14:45 |
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There might be an explorer in the Third that needs our help
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Jul 11, 2014 19:29
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