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 aaaaaaaaah The game I'm writing was announced today.
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Jul 8, 2014 17:56
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typhus posted:
Congrats! looks really cool. Hope to see some gameplay soon. I'm glad you guys are having the same problems with genre naming we are. Nosgoth gets called a MOBA even though it doesn't have any of the elements of LoL/DOTA besides abilities. 'Hero Shooter' is interesting 
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Jul 8, 2014 19:06
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typhus posted:
Congrats What kind of writing did you do for it?
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Jul 8, 2014 19:20
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Battleborn looks awesome, and it'll be cool to see another take on that style aside from Monday Night Combat. I just call everything in the genre Lords Management after the Idle Thumbs nickname.
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Jul 8, 2014 19:45
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Brackhar posted:Programming tests are the worst for this exact reason. Not sure about programming tests, but I always felt animation tests are a trial by fire which aren't really there to showcase someone's work but more or less gives the impression that someone REALLY wants to work at a studio. Shouldn't the demoreel represent them already? I understand that demoreels don't exactly showcase the day by day work schedule of people and often there's more than one person on a shot especially in film. However film companies don't require a test. Generally if you're not able to keep up you get fired. There's also a trial period. What's funny is that game companies do this as well but in addition require a test. It makes it stressful especially if you're already working. Not to mention really weird especially if they want the scene file as it's basically free work. I understand the argument is to see if you can handle it, do a good job, survive well, etc etc but it's not like those aren't issues in film. Just one of those things that won't go away anytime soon.
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Jul 8, 2014 22:03
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Are there a lot of trial periods at games jobs? The big difference between games jobs and VFX/Film is that Games is usually a salaried full time position whereas VFX/Film is almost always contract which makes it very easy to fire people, whereas with a salaried position especially at a large-ish company you have a whole HR rigamarole of needing to prove that they suck and that they are not improving despite significant effort on management's side to help them improve. Whereas with a contract sucking is more or less just breaching the contract and it breaks off.
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Jul 8, 2014 22:55
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Sigma-X posted:Are there a lot of trial periods at games jobs? We've been moving towards a "on-site contract for 3-6 months then convert to full time" world to make sure people fit well and so on. It's been pretty great, especially with both parties going in knowing that we can go our separate ways if things are a great match.
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Jul 8, 2014 23:19
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In some ways I feel like, game animators especially, feel like they still need to 'prove' themselves to film. There's still this notion that film animators are superior to game animators. Realistically, especially with whats been going down at Weta, that's not necessarily true. Weta is primarily a mocap studio at this point with very little keyframe going to the the animation team. Most of the nonmocap work is done by small senior staff while the lion's share is mainly motion cleanup. Don't get me wrong, that sort of thing is really challenging and hard work especially when the animator needs to match realistic performance if he/she decides to change things up. It's worth mentioning though since often classic film animators also look down on mocap too. I think it really started back when 3d animation in games was just horrid. Like Playstation One era. Nowadays that line of talent is extremely narrow and often times, especially when I see weird acting/animation in film(Spiderman comes to mind), is crossed. Companies like Blizzard, Riot, Insomniac games and such have some of the best animators I've ever met doing some of the freshest stuff. I mean I guess that's why everyone does the test thing as it's reaffirmation that what game animators do is difficult. It is possible for film animators can fail at it and fail they do. Game animation can be and often is art. So maybe that's why it's there? Just a simple reminder that yes Games do art too. Games also doesn't appear to be fullon dickhead mode as film at the moment. http://www.deadline.com/tag/kevin-brady/ quote:Disney Slammed In Discrimination Suit By 26-Year Veteran Studio Exec http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/15/lucasfilm-pixar-lawsuit-settled-california_n_3599967.html quote:Pixar and Lucasfilm settle civil lawsuit over no-hiring pact with rival firms
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Jul 8, 2014 23:47
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There is also a misconception about film animation being harder than game animation when in reality they both have different challenges. Game animation has many more limiting factors including dynamic cameras, gameplay implications and engine shortcomings, among other things. On many occasions the animation needs to adjust to whatever is possible or practical rather than what would be the best looking. On the other hand, film is harder in that it doesn't have as many limiting factors. You have to restrain yourself and make sure that the acting is top notch. I feel like games have a bit more leeway in that department, which is not to say they shouldn't strive for it.
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Jul 9, 2014 00:19
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Not sure about programming tests, but I always felt animation tests are a trial by fire which aren't really there to showcase someone's work but more or less gives the impression that someone REALLY wants to work at a studio. I dunno. I'm not an animator so I'm somewhat speaking out of my rear end, but wouldn't there be value to seeing how the animator did the animation? Did they use splines, tons of keyframes, IK, how was their rig assembled, etc. That's not something you get from just looking at a demo reel, and it could expose some serious work issues.
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Jul 9, 2014 00:38
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Well, when it comes to environment art, me and the other artists at my last place used to get assets of scenes from big budget movies and chuckle at when the art ended immediately out of shot and the dirty geometry and such. It's crazy what digital set building for film can get away with with full control of the camera and the actors within it that game environment art couldn't get away with in a million years..
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Jul 9, 2014 00:39
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So I just handed in my notice at EA, so come August 15th I'm going to jumping into the turbulent waters of indie development! It's scary as hell walking away from a great job, but I've run all the numbers, networked my rear end off, saved a heap of money and now I finally feel that I'm in a position where I can make this work. Still scary, though. 
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Jul 9, 2014 08:51
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AntiPseudonym posted:So I just handed in my notice at EA, so come August 15th I'm going to jumping into the turbulent waters of indie development! It's scary as hell walking away from a great job, but I've run all the numbers, networked my rear end off, saved a heap of money and now I finally feel that I'm in a position where I can make this work. PC/console, mobile or both?
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Jul 9, 2014 13:57
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devilmouse posted:We've been moving towards a "on-site contract for 3-6 months then convert to full time" world to make sure people fit well and so on. It's been pretty great, especially with both parties going in knowing that we can go our separate ways if things are a great match. That's how we do it at my studio as well, and it's worked out great so far. It's how I started there! There was a bit of anxiety sometimes over "am I gonna get FT or not?? aaaa" but I feel like after a few months you should know whether or not a person's gonna work out. typhus posted:aaaaaaaaah Congrats!! It looks super awesome!
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Jul 9, 2014 19:21
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Valigarmanda posted:That's how we do it at my studio as well, and it's worked out great so far. It's how I started there! There was a bit of anxiety sometimes over "am I gonna get FT or not?? aaaa" but I feel like after a few months you should know whether or not a person's gonna work out. An important part of the process has been frequent check-ins, communicating you're looking to change from either side, and making it very clear what the path to full-time is.
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Jul 9, 2014 19:48
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typhus posted:
Hey! Glad to see there's a fellow GBX'er here. I'm a new Character Artist here, loving the new project and the studio 
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Jul 9, 2014 23:47
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Resource posted:Congrats All kinds! And still workin' on it. Thanks for the kind words, all. Really stoked for the GI rollout this month.
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Jul 10, 2014 00:18
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eeenmachine posted:PC/console, mobile or both? PC first, then eventually some mobile/console ports if there's enough interest.
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Jul 10, 2014 03:11
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Sigma-X posted:Are there a lot of trial periods at games jobs? The big difference between games jobs and VFX/Film is that Games is usually a salaried full time position whereas VFX/Film is almost always contract which makes it very easy to fire people, whereas with a salaried position especially at a large-ish company you have a whole HR rigamarole of needing to prove that they suck and that they are not improving despite significant effort on management's side to help them improve. Whereas with a contract sucking is more or less just breaching the contract and it breaks off. A lot of art positions seem to do "contract before hire" thing, I know we had done it at Griptonite, and my artist friends who went on from there to places like Zynga started as contract before full time. The problem more comes in with how unstable game development is. Many times we would want to bring an artist on full time after they kicked rear end on contract, but due to poorly timed projects, dropped contracts, or other challenges, we would instead either have to set them up with another contract or let them go for 3 months and hope they were still around to contract after that (Washington state labor laws).
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Jul 10, 2014 03:58
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Buckwheat Sings posted:Shouldn't the demoreel represent them already? That's probably a lot less of an issue if someone has shipped titles under their belt, but if they have one or zero prior positions, a lot of effort needs to go into just making sure they're for real. I guess it might also be to find out what gaps in their skill set will need to be filled if they're hired.
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Jul 10, 2014 04:29
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We are hiring at Wargaming Chicago-Baltimore. If you have experience with console game development or python/web please check out http://wargaming.com/en/careers/vacancies/ and select Chicago or Baltimore for the location. PM me with questions, but use the site for applications! Thanks!
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Jul 11, 2014 17:25
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Hey, people recruiting for your company, can we MAYBE post positions for people in between "entry level" and "senior"? I only need like another 18 months before I've got the experience to go for senior positions, but it's pretty hard to get that experience when no positions are in that range! Sorry if I'm bitter, had another interview that I thought went great fizzle out with no feedback. I think I'm currently in a nasty place where nobody wants me for senior positions, but they can tell that they can't pay me "junior" salaries.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:09
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^^^ Sorry things are rough dude. It's tough place to be in. Question for the group: Have any of you played a 3rd person melee action game on PC where you thought the Keyboard/Mouse controls were actually well executed? I'm having a debate with one of the writers here and we're both a little stumped on if there are any good examples.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:22
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You mean like Mount and Blade or Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Academy? Because both of those games play pretty great.  JK2 had some issues with spammable attacks that made fighting boring, but that was a problem with balance more than an issue with the play mechanics. And now that I think twice I guess Mount and Blade isn't third person but it still deserves a mention as combat works pretty well in that game.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:32
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theflyingorc posted:Hey, people recruiting for your company, can we MAYBE post positions for people in between "entry level" and "senior"? I only need like another 18 months before I've got the experience to go for senior positions, but it's pretty hard to get that experience when no positions are in that range! I believe we are looking for all levels at this point. Definitely send your info in even if you're not sure if the fit is perfect -- things are little more fluid than those spots on the site indicate.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:39
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Chosen posted:I believe we are looking for all levels at this point. Definitely send your info in even if you're not sure if the fit is perfect -- things are little more fluid than those spots on the site indicate. Oh sorry - my post came at a bad time! I was absolutely not trying to talk to you directly. I was speaking only to general patterns I've noticed, not any particular company's website. My other problem is that I did backend work on an MMO, which is surprisingly not adaptable to most positions. I'm having a ton of issues with applications to console developers and mobile developers because I have no formal work in either
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Jul 11, 2014 19:42
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^^^ Try this: http://www.trionworlds.com/en/careers/redwood-shores/?cjobid=EB620378513 It's a mid level MMO designer position at a good studio. Your skills would be a value add there. xzzy posted:You mean like Mount and Blade or Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Academy? Because both of those games play pretty great. Do you mean Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast or Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy?
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Jul 11, 2014 19:43
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Speaking of which...Odddzy posted:Are there 3D artist positions about to open? If so I'd really like to ship my portfolio over to you. Mobile Character Artist (Price Edward Island, Canada) 3D Artist (Helsinki, Finland) Artist (St. Petersburg, Russia) [awesome group of dudes here] Contract Character Modeler (Redwood City, CA)
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Jul 11, 2014 19:45
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Brackhar posted:Do you mean Jedi Knight 2: Jedi Outcast or Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy? Um, both I guess. I working from memory and guess I couldn't remember the proper title.. Academy was the second one of the two so it was a little more polished, but Outcast was pretty good too.
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Jul 11, 2014 19:49
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Brackhar posted:^^^ Listen Brackhar, if you're going to keep being so incredibly helpful I'm going to have to explain to my wife why I'm getting your name tattoo'd, and that conversation will be really awkward.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:10
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xzzy posted:Um, both I guess. Outcast had better combat (enable the insta-slice cheat), but lacked the customizable skill tree / character stuff that made the 2nd more fun. Also had one TERRIBLE level with snipers very early in the game that made a ton of people quit before it got good. If you want to break one down for its design, definitely go with Outcast. And enable insta-slice, seriously, makes it a whole other animal - some of the boss fights become INCREDIBLY tense games of cat and mouse. Also make liberal use of the AI freeze and AI spawn commands... lets you set up some very complicated battles in some of the cool-but-poorly-utilized level spaces. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 20:15 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 20:11
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Outcast had the unblockable death-from-above attack which should function as a valuable lesson for anyone making multiplayer games, make sure players have an "out" for everything or else people are gonna exploit the hell out of it.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:46
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More recently, chivalry wasn't bad, although the combat had a hokey-pokey feel where everyone danced in/out right at the edge of your weapon's reach before moving in for the kill. It's similar to mount and blade (which did have a 3rd person mode) in that you "wound up" for a swing by holding the mouse button down, and the type of swing was determined by what direction (or wasd) you were moving/holding at the time. Bhodi fucked around with this message at 22:09 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 22:06
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theflyingorc posted:Listen Brackhar, if you're going to keep being so incredibly helpful I'm going to have to explain to my wife why I'm getting your name tattoo'd, and that conversation will be really awkward. Wait there are posters in this thread that don't have a Brackhar tramp stamp?
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Jul 11, 2014 22:55
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Brackhar posted:Question for the group: Have any of you played a 3rd person melee action game on PC where you thought the Keyboard/Mouse controls were actually well executed? I'm having a debate with one of the writers here and we're both a little stumped on if there are any good examples. It doesn't really count as action, but I found TERA's combat pretty satisfying as a Slayer (2h sword class). The rest of the game was pretty dull fare, but the combat was engaging, third person, and melee. That said it probably had a lot to do with their audio feedback and animations (you get to knock enemies down/back a lot, etc.) so hits feel weighty, and mashing spacebar to do an overhand 2H sword smash combo attack is super satisfying for some reason. Especially given it had MMO constraints and couldn't pair hit reactions/enemy health/etc. like a true brawler. Something about getting locked into an animation's forward slash momentum, but being able to pivot your camera and line up a subsequent slash behind you was enjoyable too. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6frF9gKC18&t=868s If you didn't play it, from what I remember the camera was mouse-locked, but became free cam during attacks and your character would pivot to match your rotation when the root motion of the last anim ended. Slayer class combat felt a little bit like a dance where you would commit in a direction, pivot mid-swing to line up your next line of attack, avoiding enemy telegraphs and keeping multiple enemies CC'd where possible. It was a lot more fun than Wildstar's melee controls for me, but I like melee with weight and Wildstar's the ultimate in floaty MMO combat. icking fudiot fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 23:35
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icking fudiot posted:It was a lot more fun than Wildstar's melee controls for me, but I like melee with weight and Wildstar's the ultimate in floaty MMO combat. Because... drat. It's like a floaty WoW, or a poor man's Guild Wars. It looked miserable to me, watching my GF play it. I'm not an MMO person to begin with, but she couldn't stand it either. (if anyone in here is on it, sorry  I was vaguely excited for it, after they released that trailer ages ago, but man, just not a fan)
Shalinor fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 00:10
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Shalinor posted:This one confuses me (biz chat) - can ANYONE tell me why Wildstar is apparently doing well? Or is all of the hype manufactured? Armchair analyst take: - It sold well initially on hype and the fact that it's different from WoW, but similar enough to be accessible - It's visually appealing in videos and hi-res marketing assets - The initial experience *can be* positive for MMO vets - the combat feels different enough to feel fresh at first take. That said, I would suspect the 2nd month sub numbers are going to be pretty ugly. Courting the hardcore MMO raider 'no casuals' audience specifically doesn't seem like a winning formula. EDIT: What surprised me a little was I actually grew tired of the "action MMO" thing. It's sorta compelling at first as a long time MMO player, but I realized a few weeks in that part of what I enjoyed about WoW was the "choose your own intensity" slider it inherently supports. You can veg out gathering crafting materials, do an easy dungeon, farm old content almost on autopilot after a long day at work. It can be a relaxing, low-effort accomplishment simulator in that sense. The high intensity stuff like Raids are available if you're in the mood, but I think part of why it's held so many players for so long is it functions equally as a low intensity solo game. Wildstar's combat demands your attention at all times and punishes small mistakes - standing in the wrong telegraph can mean instant death in dungeons, and even in solo play you can't space out much or you'll die pretty easily. I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing from a combat design perspective and I appreciate why it appeals to a certain audience that feels marginalized by WoW, but it hurts the game's ability to function as a community hub. icking fudiot fucked around with this message at 00:34 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 00:17
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Eh. I play Wildstar, and I really enjoy it, but it's really just WoW in space with a really nice art style(albeit a bit heavy on the T&A), more interesting combat and a shitload of Fun Stuff To Do All The Time. It's aimed squarely at people who miss the Burning Crusade era of WoW and some annoying bugs notwithstanding it seems to be delivering nicely.
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Jul 12, 2014 00:21
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No joke, we used to talk about MMOs having to pass the 'Hamburger Test'. That is you had to be able to eat a hamburger while playing. Not just a simple peanut butter sandwich or something similarly non-messy, but a full blown sloppy hamburger, so there had to be ample breaks, the ability to sometimes play one-handed (WOOWOO), etc.
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Jul 12, 2014 01:43
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devilmouse posted:No joke, we used to talk about MMOs having to pass the 'Hamburger Test'. That is you had to be able to eat a hamburger while playing. Not just a simple peanut butter sandwich or something similarly non-messy, but a full blown sloppy hamburger, so there had to be ample breaks, the ability to sometimes play one-handed (WOOWOO), etc.  EDIT: I'm extremely glad that I don't work in a studio where I have to feign interest in WoW or Dragonvale. Shalinor fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 01:53
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