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Jack the Lad posted:Like, if I shoot out the lights, I can invoke it to cause the first guy to shoot at me in the Dark to miss, but after that everyone can effectively see and shoot just as well as they could before, even though narratively it's still dark? Evil Mastermind posted:Like Cyphoderus said, there's a difference between the room being dark and having the "Dark" aspect. It's perfectly allowable for the room to have a passive -1 or -2 penalty for certain actions because it's dark, but using the Dark aspect means you're really taking advantage of the fact the room is dark. I know this is from a ways back but sorry i'm catching up. This actually goes well with somthing from unknown armies by greg stolze if you have a -1 at dodging an attack because it's dark and they have a -1 from hitting you because it's dark then there's no reason to have the penalties. They cancel each other out. it's not that everyone can see just fine it's that everyone is equally hampered. Then if someone has night vision or whatev just give them a +1 boost to everything.
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Jul 12, 2014 10:20
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neaden posted:Quick Atomic Robo Question. Could AR do a lower powered more horror type game like Fringe or the X-Files by dialing down the characters and situations, or do the modes lead to too much character power to really pull that off? A super quick solution: have your players select, say, 2 or 3 skills from each Mode. That's all they get. And then maybe declare no skill can be above, let's say, a +2, so no one can game their way into being +5 ultra snipers. The lack of high level skills could make Brainstorms and Inventing a little harder, but maybe that'll fit your game. And it should be noted that your group can fail a Brainstorm or an Invention and still 1) have fun with the process, 2) get a useful result (just not the one that was intended), 3) move the game forward. Mega-stunts would have to be tightly controlled or forbidden altogether. But those are intended to be used by robots and monsters instead of ordinary humans, so that's not a gamebreaker.
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Jul 12, 2014 13:26
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Elfgames posted:I know this is from a ways back but sorry i'm catching up. This actually goes well with somthing from unknown armies by greg stolze if you have a -1 at dodging an attack because it's dark and they have a -1 from hitting you because it's dark then there's no reason to have the penalties. They cancel each other out. it's not that everyone can see just fine it's that everyone is equally hampered. Then if someone has night vision or whatev just give them a +1 boost to everything. Theres some weirder examples for that, and I think the one thats always kind of weird is cover in a modern gunslinging setting. A free invoke for +2 to defend, and then it costs a fate point for another +2 if you go by the rules. It's weirded people out before when I've run stuff, and going forward I'm likely to hack something in regarding it, even though you can kind of explain it as "the narrative function of the cover has been fulfilled" its not going to work for everyone. The hacks for that that I would use might be something like a static challenge as part of the attack role for the shooter as discussed earlier,or a free invoke with a minor consequence attached, like "invoke it again for free but you need to make a "pinned down" challenge next time you want to take action out of cover". I can totally see that a free +2 in challenges every time throws things off a bit though. But at the same time the geek in cover with low athletics probably NEEDS the +2 every time, so I dunno. If it makes sense let them invoke it for free more than once? *shrug* It's something I've always been just a little fuzzy about.
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Jul 12, 2014 17:11
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Think of it like a movie. Rooster Cogburn is getting fired on by bandits, so he ducks behind cover. He aims to fire back and they return fire. If he stays in place, he's gonna get shot. So after his first exchange, he likely tags his cover [to avoid the bullets] then moves on to the next thing. If he's in a fancy game he'll shoot a water tower, creating an advantage. If he's in a flashy game, he'll tag his "Best shooter there is" aspect and go for broke, trying to kill everyone. But he won't just stay there. If he DOES, the bandits could roll to create the aspect on him "Pinned down", which he'd have to overcome...
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Jul 12, 2014 17:59
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I get it, but theres some cases where it's just going to seem weird. If you're getting shot at and you are up against an force that is about to overwhelm you, then yeah, you tag your cover once then you work out a fancy way to get out of trouble. But cover is an advantage in combat.(Now, sure, generally fate will be about getting out of crazy situation and doing huge heroics, but it's also famously flexible). If I'm in cover and in a position of advantage, I'm not going to want to leave that position and it's going to continue to protect me. The argument that this is dramatically boring, and since Fate points are narrative juice I have to spent them because of this certainly works, but yeah, if I'm shooting that guntroll stuck in the mud in the clearing, hunkering down and pouring fire makes sense because it's mindlessly spraying bullets as it gets picked apart. Now, yeah, the situation I've written here is probably one where maybe the GM just narrates the guntroll getting shot to pieces, or perhaps it gets the aspect "exposed" of but thats another weird one with the rules as written. It's exposed, I tag that for +2 when shooting it. If it can't get out of it's predicament it's still exposed, and frankly I'd be inclined to let people keep tagging that without spending fate on it or creating advantage for basically the same thing again. Largely I think the aspect tagging system works really well, but I do kinda think that there are times where just a straight out modifier just seems a little simpler.
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Jul 12, 2014 18:48
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It's less that you're always hiding behind cover, it's more that you invoke the cover that one time they almost hit yo and the bullet goes zing right off the crate and you make a bad joke about not wanting a haircut.
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Jul 12, 2014 19:29
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ShineDog posted:Largely I think the aspect tagging system works really well, but I do kinda think that there are times where just a straight out modifier just seems a little simpler. Just remember that aspects are always fictionally true even when they don't have any free invokes left. Say you're fighting some random terrorists and you already used your free invoke on Hiding Behind A Pillar. Can the random mooks on the other side of the room shoot you? No, since you're behind a pillar and they're some random mooks with cheap AK-47s and they can't get the [i[fictional justification[/i] to keep attacking you. So instead they try to pin you down (Create an Advantage) and send some guys to another zone where they can get a better shot, and next round you'll have to choose between dealing with the flanking mooks or move out of this particular piece of cover (thus removing the Hiding Behind A Pillar aspect, since you're no longer hiding behind a pillar).
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Jul 12, 2014 19:37
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ShineDog posted:Theres some weirder examples for that, and I think the one thats always kind of weird is cover in a modern gunslinging setting. A free invoke for +2 to defend, and then it costs a fate point for another +2 if you go by the rules. It's weirded people out before when I've run stuff, and going forward I'm likely to hack something in regarding it, even though you can kind of explain it as "the narrative function of the cover has been fulfilled" its not going to work for everyone. That's also a bit different. being in cover doesn't put both sides at a disadvantage so i would rule that you get the "cover" aspect at +2 whenever it's invoked and it provides a general +1 (non stacking) bonus. This gives you a small bonus for using your surroundings but also provides some incentive to make a better plan.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:09
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Elfgames posted:That's also a bit different. being in cover doesn't put both sides at a disadvantage so i would rule that you get the "cover" aspect at +2 whenever it's invoked and it provides a general +1 (non stacking) bonus. This gives you a small bonus for using your surroundings but also provides some incentive to make a better plan. Yeah, largely I agree with that (and all of the above really), it's just not in the rules as written. Modifiers outside of aspects are essentialy gone.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:30
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Personally, I like the way you only get one free invoke because it kind of forces you to keep moving in a narrative sense. I can stay behind this "cover" aspect and keep paying out Fate points, or I can figure out something else that's free.
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Jul 12, 2014 20:32
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I agree but i don't think giving out a lesser bonus does too much to keep that from happening and it makes the cover feel a little more solid.
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Jul 12, 2014 21:33
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Elfgames posted:I agree but i don't think giving out a lesser bonus does too much to keep that from happening and it makes the cover feel a little more solid. The problem is EVERYTHING could be advantageous. The fact I'm a Badass Star Captain and these are Dul'ozz's henchman should give me an advantage. The fact I'm the Belle of the Ball should give me advantage on Count Gorlim, who nobody really likes. The fact I know I was getting thrown down an elevator shaft should give me a +1 to my acrobatics since I got warning... Create Advantage/Spend FP provides balance to keep scenes evolving or people getting stress + consequences.
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Jul 12, 2014 22:27
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Yeah, basically whenever you're playing Fate you should be thinking more in terms of "What would make an awesome action scene in a movie?" rather than "How do I get the best bonuses in combat?" Because with enough creative thinking the former will actually inform the latter. Ratpick fucked around with this message at 23:50 on Jul 12, 2014 |
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Jul 12, 2014 23:25
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It depends on what kinda game you're trying to run and what you want to encourage, really. If you want to play a somewhat more modern action game with lots of ducking behind cover, then probably adding a houserule specifically for cover would be the way to do it. If you want a more run around guns blazing style game, then having cover only work once is better; it takes the bullet that would've otherwise hit you, and now it's time to vault over it and sprint at the bad guy, firing your pistol wildly until you can get close enough to just smash his head in with hit own chest high wall. Don't think of it in terms of "what's realistic?" Think of it in terms of "what sort of in-game actions do I want to encourage?"
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Jul 13, 2014 02:35
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Just to point this out: If the cover is really good, then having a free tag is kind of meaningless. You can't shoot through a wall unless you have a gun that says you can (or a power, or whatever). That's a proper bonus to using cover, forcing people to close in with you and put themselves in a worse position. You don't need to hand out extra bonuses to say that the narrative permissions to undertake an action just aren't there, or are only there weakly.
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Jul 13, 2014 04:16
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So I've been getting really into FATE as a system, and I kitbashed together a conversion to run games of Mage: the Awakening in a system that isn't a pile of bollocks. I typed up the changes so I'd have a reference for later - can anyone see anything drastically wrong with it? I adopted a few things from the nWoD thread, like Ferrinus's rules for Paradox and ritual magic. My players are reasonably crunchy while still enjoying a lot of the narrative mechanics in Fate, so I didn't want to discard too much of how the Arcanum system works. I also made a character sheet.
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Jul 13, 2014 07:45
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Waaaah the Christians are out to get me
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Said before but probably going to stick with it - not giving bonuses to the defence roll, but applying a threshold/overcome on the attackers dice where it makes sense. I might not give the defender an extra +2 without spending a fate point, but I might also say the attacker needs his shot to be Fair, Good, or Great, depending on the range and cover of the shot being made, even if the defender really cludges his defence roll. That might be punishing to the attacker, but I'm OK with that. The defender will be getting pinned down aspects to force him to move before he gets outflanked, the attacker cant reliably hit his damned target so has to move to get sightlines. Everyone needs to move, it's still dynamic, but I don't have to argue with players that X worked a turn ago but not this turn. As to why I'm getting hung up over it, it's probably because I plan to use Freds very simple fate hack to use your grid maps, which will have the outcome of making who is in cover from who much clearer than loosely defined zones. I don't want it to turn into something crunchy, It's still going to be quite loose, but I guess it's going to be a somewhat crunchier by nature. ShineDog fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Jul 13, 2014 |
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Jul 13, 2014 09:26
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-1 beating -2 is hilarious though. "There's no way they can hit us at this distan--"
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Jul 13, 2014 18:37
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Brain reactivated, and realised that the simplest, most obvious notion is to put lots of cover on your map and treat it as a default. of COURSE everyone is trying to keep to cover, just give someone a beneficial aspect if they catch you in the open and want to blast you while you are flanked or exposed Very bad at GM, me.
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Jul 14, 2014 15:25
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You could say that you were having trouble seeing the wood for the trees? 
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Jul 14, 2014 15:33
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Hyperactive posted:Modes just give you ideas to hang your Aspects on, and then give you your skills and their level. You do end up with the majority of skills that exist in the main book, and some of those can get pretty high if you've stacked them just so. It's a game about highly knowledgeable and skilled people! Thanks for answering. I would want the characters to be competent, but not super humanly so. Fox Mulder rather then Jenkins. The Brainstorming is what gave me the idea in the first place since the standard Fringe episode is 1. Find a weird thing. 2. Collect evidence. 3. Brainstorm. 4. Stop the weird thing. And I am hoping AR would be a good way to do that and use player input.
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Jul 15, 2014 00:57
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Inverse World Accelerated is finally out! Now I can rest forever. 
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Jul 15, 2014 10:03
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So, here's a thing I've been meaning to try out: detailed projects as fights. Let's use a couple of examples here. Our first project is "fix up this craptastic old car into something workable", and our second project is "develop a permanent ghost containment system". (I may or may not have come up with this concept when thinking up ideas for a Fate Ghostbusters hack.) The GM gives the task of fixing up the car three stress boxes, a single consequence (+2), and a "skill" that is "What a Lemon!" at +3. Rather than making a single overcome action to turn the car from shitheap to Ecto-1, the player characters now have to (metaphorically) grapple with the process of refining it into a workable vehicle over a period of time, sometimes involving teamwork. They can "attack" it directly with a Mechanics skill, perhaps, or maybe try to create an advantage like Discount Parts with a social skill, or Let Me Get the Manual with an intellect skill. When the project is "defeated", it's complete. So it shouldn't take long to bash the ol' clunker into a workable condition if everyone chips in. But what if you want a more long-running project. For developing a permanent ghost containment system, the GM gives the task four stress boxes, two consequences (+2, +4), two "skills" ("Unexplored Branch of Physics" at +3, and "Esoteric Materials Required" at +4), and Armor 1. This project is much more of a beast, and will require a serious approach to taking it down. Or, uh, completing it satisfactorily. Unlike most fights, this is not something which needs to end before anything else can happen. It's a project, you can put down the books/wrench/microscope and do something else, although there may be sort of a time limit going on. Like, maybe the portable traps are not meant to hold ghosts for this long. So the project lurks in the background, but it doesn't blank out those stress boxes when you leave it alone. That would be crazy talk. Instead it's like a punching bag the players can go back to when they feel like they can do something with it. Maybe they've got some new advantage they can exploit, like Fifth Mortgage or Scientific Breakthrough. This is all assuming that the project is not actually hitting back at any point, though, but that doesn't have to be the case. If you're a particularly While this whole exercise is obviously part and parcel of the fractal, it's a bit of an interesting take (in my opinion, anyway) because it's an abstract concept rather than "give the [city/piece of equipment] some aspects and stuff" which is how a lot of the Fate fractal stuff I've read on tends to go. (Although I am still a little new to the system as a whole.)
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Jul 15, 2014 11:12
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Fuego Fish posted:So, here's a thing I've been meaning to try out: detailed projects as fights. Your project could be made up of lots of inanimate characters that you fight. Like, the spaceship has crash landed on the dread world Fuff. to escape wartorn Fuff we're going to need to repair the hyperwave engine bearings, which are radioactive, stripped, and badly twisted in their housing. We're going to need to dig the nose out of the sand dune, which is a lot of work. We'll need to restore the pilots confidence who is drinking in a bar and swears he'll never fly again, and we'll need to rebuild the ships bespoke OS, which was wiped in the crash. All of those things could be their own long term projects the contribute to the whole, could have their own appropriate stress tracks, and you can probably tie them to an adventure session. Perhaps valiantly bringing a backhoe to the crash site to help dig the ship out isn't a great adventure concept, but gently caress it, you get the idea.
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Jul 15, 2014 12:04
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Fuego Fish posted:So, here's a thing I've been meaning to try out: detailed projects as fights.
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Jul 15, 2014 13:31
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Fish, I love everything about what you just posted and I'm thinking of playing with it for rituals in my Mage kitbash.
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Jul 15, 2014 16:08
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Fuego Fish posted:So, here's a thing I've been meaning to try out: detailed projects as fights. I did a thing a while back of a fractalized treasure map that attacked the PCs by doing things like leading them astray into natural hazards, using up their resources, or "summoning" wild animals. I should make a new version of that with Fate Core at some point.
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Jul 15, 2014 17:04
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(Map of) Thun'oto Isle Aspects: *Rewards Without Measure *Beware the Snake Tribe! *"It was around here somewhere..." Unsafe Paths +5 Angry Tribes: +4 Riddles of Thun: +4 Stunts: Many Secrets of Thun'Oto The map of Thun'otos takes consequences as normal, but its consequences cannot be tagged unless they apply directly to its skill use. (For example, "Fearful Snake Tribe" could be tagged to defeat the snake tribe village, but not to get through an inverted cave.) Many Island Ways If the Island concedes in a conflict, it doesn't wipe its stress boxes, but it cannot be opposed with the same skill leader. If a group were to use Lore to read an ancient carving, for example, it would have to use notice or survival in its next exchange. If the island concedes 3 or more times, this stunt is deactivated. But how will you get BACK? When defeated, PCs can unearth the Treasure of Thun'Oto. Clear the island's stress boxes; it can now tag its own consequences to represent geographic instability, and gains a moderate and extreme consequence. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 18:08
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Can anyone tell me about strands of fate and if theres anything interesting worth lifting? I love so many things about fate (dat fractal) but I'd still like to see things just a smiiiidge more crunchy. I'd quite like to see if theres anything written and playtested in detail before I start bodging away at my own hacks.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:41
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ShineDog posted:Can anyone tell me about strands of fate quote:and if theres anything interesting worth lifting? Okay, real answer. SoF was written way back before Dresden Files Fate came out (around SotC/Starblazer), so it's based off an early version of the rules, which admittedly isn't that much of an issue. The main problem is that it tries to bridge the gap between "traditional games" and Fate by bolting a ton of 3.X-ish mechanics onto the base Fate framework, so it turns into this ridiculously complex anti-FAE. You start making your character by picking 5 aspects. Then you have 12 Abilities (Agility, Perception, Endurance, Strength, Craft, Knowledge, Reasoning, Willpower, Deception, Empathy, Resources, and Persuasion; all of which work like skills), then you pick another 5 aspects based off of them as "Specialty Aspects". Now you pick your Advantages. You buy these out of a pool separate from your Refresh, and they range from basic "+2 to this skill when doing this thing" to "Spend a Fate point to make a 'Darkness' aspect in play free for you to tag for the rest of the scene" to "make a bunch of rolls to read someone's mind". There are over 150 of these drat things because RPGs need long lists of powers I guess. What's worse is that most of them are now covered by normal aspect use or the four base actions. Like, reading minds? It's effectively just creating advantage to learn one of someone's aspects, except it takes a page of rules. Then you buy your equipment, because what's an RPG without a long equipment list? It also has the problem of not really getting that aspects should a) be short and sweet, and b) something you can use in-game instead of just a cool sounding phrase. Here's a sample character from the book: quote:Dr. Jacob Lawson, Occult Investigator
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Jul 15, 2014 20:30
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A lot of earlier additions had the problem of having WAY to many personal aspects.
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Jul 15, 2014 20:44
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e X posted:A lot of earlier additions had the problem of having WAY to many personal aspects. Well, that's how SotC was done, and it was the first Fate game that really got any attention, so... The thing is, Evil Hat has reworked and adjusted things over the years, and SoF has really not aged well. I'm pretty tempted to just go through the Advantage list and figure out how many of them are really just effectively aspects, basic stunts, or covered by the four actions.
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Jul 15, 2014 20:48
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Evil Mastermind posted:Well, that's how SotC was done, and it was the first Fate game that really got any attention, so... Sure, but sometimes I think core cut just a smidge to deep. Losing block is a bit of a shame. You still have the functionality to put down an obstacle aspect that needs to be overcome with creating advantage as is, but block (at least in bulldogs) gave you a simple rule about what the difficulty of that obstacle should be. I'll probably be using it as was. I didnt really want to run strands, I just wanted to see if there were any bits and pieces worth incorporating.
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Jul 15, 2014 21:34
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Evil Mastermind posted:
Mother of God. My thrown-together "danger island", which basically rewrites the results on consequences and contests, is 2.5 times shorter than Dr. 70s character sheet. Golden Bee fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 22:20
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quote:Specialty Aspects drat, that's a needlessly verbose lovely aspect. It tries to ignore the drawback "I'm not bad at math, I'm actually great because I think it's simple and it bores me" and is basically 2 different positive aspects in one. IIRC the guy doing SoF wanted to make a Cyberpunk game, and I think that's what pushed him to include a bunch of equipment and equipment rules. Honestly SoF is a completely useless book since it's not fun to read, and Fate Core already gives an actually good generic Fate toolkit, with clear goals and mechanics. It didn't help that it came out before Dresden, which is basically Fate 3.5 if you consider Core to be the 4th iteration of Fate.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:02
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Here's something else that has come out of my experimentations with Fate's core rules, a little sneak preview of the workings of the Faith proficiency from my 10,000 Wonders hack. The Stress track measures when bad things happen to you. You check off boxes, and when there are no more boxes left to check, you're hosed. So let's reverse that. The Faith track measures when good things happen because of you. Every selfless act, every noble gesture, they add up. You check off the boxes, and when there are no more boxes left to check, you're doin' good. Rather than Consequences to mitigate the damage, the Faith track has Blessings, which are beneficial aspects (instead of negative ones). Maybe you're highly regarded as a holy man, maybe you get special powers goin' on. Regardless, much as Stress fades, so too does Faith. You cannot max out your saintly demeanour and then coast for the rest of the game. You must be constantly However you can also "burn" one of those checked boxes during a scene for a bonus equal to the checkbox's value, meaning you can forgo those Blessings for a spot of miracle instead. The roll has to be thematic, of course, and certainly worthy of semidivine intervention. So if you're attempting to bring someone back from the brink of death, that's a solid usage. Trying to punt an orphan into a volcano? Not so much.
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Jul 15, 2014 23:27
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ShineDog posted:I didnt really want to run strands, I just wanted to see if there were any bits and pieces worth incorporating.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:09
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So, how would you actually use the isle of Thun'Ato/Oto? Dateline, 1937! Intrepid reporter Grace Fontana puts up her shocking photos of El Rey Relampago up in a poker game, and wins a map of the mysterious Thun'oto. She teams up with Captain Morrison, who owes her a favor. Of course, they'll have to FIND the drat place since the island is surrounded by fog. Using her "World Traveler" aspect as justification, she (assisted by the crew of the Shady Lady) rolls a +7 on a notice check to find the island, just inside the Polynesian triangle. The island uses its "Unsafe Paths" +5 but rolls a -1. Succeeding with style, Grace gives the island 2 stress and creates the aspect "Inland River Route". When they get to shore, the boat is attacked by the snake tribe! Captain Morrison reaches for his pistol and, rolling under its defense asks to peg "Inland River Route", claiming that he's on his boat, and he's, yada yada-- The GM tells him to knock it off and spend a fate point if he wants to. Morrison drops a fate point and yells his famous catchphrase, "NOBODY TOUCH THE SHIP!" --- It may seem the island is underpowered (it'll fill its stress boxes quickly), but for a truly tough group, remember that other people can be on the island. El Rey Relempago may be meditating under a sunken waterfall, or Dr. Song may be after the treasure himself! Three way fracases are hard to adjudicate, but when in doubt, give players a free invoke of any nasty island trouble when facing their overcocky enemies.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:35
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Ettin posted:Inverse World Accelerated is finally out! Now I can rest forever. https://plus.google.com/107122403431806926287/posts/FtFBk3yqJhJ I hope you're proud you anime rear end in a top hat. Look at this poo poo.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:36
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Apologies if it's been mentioned earlier, it's a big thread - but could someone suggest interesting things to use the mental stress track for? The 'normal' way it's hit, going by Fate Core, is to absorb hits from a Provoke attack, but that's pretty limited, compared to the numerous ways characters can get physically harmed. Obviously the answers depend on the setting, although general answers useful too. My current game is literally the DnD Eberron setting done in Fate, so defending against psychic attacks and mind control is possible, but as it is, even in a high-fantasy game the average adventurer is probably going to run into bandits with sharp knives more often than psychic monsters.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:38
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