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tirinal posted:Would you mind expanding on this blurb from the OP? I'm not a Buddhist, just an atheist who finds a lot of Buddhist tenets great. Accepting rebirth, however, was not really a problem. Atheism usually implies materialistic viewpoint. I haven't met anyone who didn't believe in some sort of God, but still accepted the idea of an immortal soul. For most of us, the mind is an emergent property of the brain. When you wipe the hard drive of your computer, its contents are gone. At least until you backed them up on some external medium, or in the cloud. Still, if you reinstall the OS and the apps you had, you will end up with a machine that's pretty similar to the one you had before the wipe. Sure, your kickass wallpaper is probably gone, as is the short story you wrote two weeks ago. The icons are all in wrong places and you will have to arrange them again around the desktop. You also omitted several applications, because you didn't use them anymore prior to the accident. But is the end result significantly different than the configuration you had before? All the changes you could have easily made without the wipe. What if you broke the entire machine instead and bought a similar one? You will probably still want to have everything organized in the same way- because you worked with these settings before and you're used to them. Or perhaps the opposite is true - your previous text editor was unstable and atrociously slow, it's time to find something better. You could even be so fed up with your PC that you purchased a Mac instead. Either way, you will use your experiences with your previous computer to buy and set up a new one. (Yup, ThinkPads were exceptionally lovely PCs in their previous life - I like the way my theology is going.) Of course, there are several problems with applying this analogy to the sentient beings. The machine, after all, doesn't care if it's being wiped... or destroyed and replaced. It gets complicated with the humans, who actually want to stay mostly the same and fear the approaching wipe. Nevertheless, when it inevitably comes, they have no way to register it. The new creature who takes their place doesn't really have to even know about its predecessor's existence. Another thought experiment - how do you feel about being asleep? This is the time when your ego gets temporarily switched off, so the brain could perform maintenance on itself. And it doesn't even leave you unchanged - ever remembered a melody perfectly in the evening and couldn't recall it after waking up? Sorry - your OS decided you don't need it after all. From my point of view, people minds don't spring up from nowhere. Your brain is roughly shaped by the genes your parents gave you. Your thoughts heavily depend of your culture and surroundings. I still have problems with grasping the details of Buddhist thought - like a birth directly caused by a death, not to mention some ideas about the inner workings of rebirth. But I managed to accept enough to believe that, after I die, some being similar to me will spring up sooner or later.
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Jul 13, 2014 01:15
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I'm likewise not Buddhist, in that I'm not a part of a community or anything, but, without all the computer analogies, here's my personal understanding of rebirth: Assuming the world outside our minds is genuine and our scientific understanding of it represents its true nature to the best of our ability, all of the energy present in our universe was created during the 'Big Bang.' Since then, the energy of our universe has been moving through space towards entropy, and that energy has coalesced into various forms of matter along its journey — matter itself being potential energy. So then, we are the current end of a long chain of momentary collections of infinitesimal amounts of Big Bang energy, and, throughout our days, from moment to moment, we expend and consume energy that is itself, likewise, momentary collections of that common energy. Every day, I wake up and consume my breakfast, expend some energy to produce some result in my garden, and, when the evening comes, I rest to regain my strength for tomorrow. The food I pull from my garden and eat during the day grew from the available energy of the universe, just as I did. Maybe the carrot I ate for breakfast was previously a bug, or another plant, or even a human being — it's not that the bug necessarily had an immortal soul that turned into a carrot; the bug died and the energy that composed it dissolved into the soil, where part of its energy was then consumed by a seedling, that then went on to grow a carrot, that I then went on to eat so that I may have the energy to further work in my garden; other bits of the bug could still very well be in the soil, waiting for its turn to be found and consumed by that same plant, or something else, or nothing at all for some time. Following that line of thinking, it's foolish to consider yourself as a unique individual, when we, our food, our houses, our streets and our countries, are all momentary links in an endless chain of energy originating beyond time. As an aside, similar to the above, I find that the concept of 'karma' can be equally rationalized as physics — action–reaction, gravity, thermodynamics, and so on. You can also get more metaphysical and perceive rebirth as the act of one moment of your being, with all that moment's wants and desires, forever transitioning into further moments, too. Remember back in school when you'd watch the clock count down until recess? That second the clock hit zero and your recess started, that moment of elation you felt, that was your rebirth. The general idea of Buddhism to me is that by limiting your own momentary suffering, you may be freed from it, and with that freedom you may find yourself with the ability to help free others seeking that freedom. It's unlikely that everyone will always be free from moment to moment — I mean, you probably once suffered, right, so others are probably suffering right now too — but everyone needs to come to their own understanding, and perhaps I'm of a minority opinion in this thread, because like I said, I'm just a dude and not a Buddhist, but that understanding can be found in all things, not just Buddhism; each person must find their own path, as we're all separate momentary collections from the same source; Buddhism is just one of many paths. We're like food in a blender, being mashed together and torn apart, with the blender's form being our collective existence and its blades being our collective actions.
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Jul 13, 2014 05:06
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Do you guys have any info on this guy? The Chinese don't want to allow him a funeral. http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKBN0FJ1Z920140714?irpc=932
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Jul 14, 2014 22:03
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He was a great yogi and teacher by all accounts. I know at least one person who was a personal student of his. His laugh was infectious and he had a great sense of humor and kindness as is typical of Tibetan yogis. This is pretty typical of China regarding Tibetans in general, I'm surprised they're being so blatant about it though. I'm assuming they're using one of the usual lines like "he deserves a state funeral in China" so they can quietly disappear the body, or "he was a dangerous criminal and you shouldn't honor him?" China has a weird policy of blatantly interfering in Tibetan Buddhism for the same reason they claim to hold the authority to recognize the Panchen Lama and the Dalai Lama. I suspect they want to do their own rituals so they can establish his tulku as another puppet.
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Jul 14, 2014 23:17
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Is cremation the chosen body dispersal method of Buddhism? Or is this another thing that varies from sect to sect? e; well, I guess there is these guys : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_mummies Dr.Caligari fucked around with this message at 00:29 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 00:25
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Sky burials are a thing, as well.
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Jul 15, 2014 00:35
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Cremation is the preferred method for body disposal especially with high lamas and yogis because the remains are picked through for relics and the direction the smoke travels among other things are used in the divination for finding the rebirth. Sky burial is much less common these days due to expense and preparation, and limited time from population growth. It's really only done at certain monasteries. Also it's not common with rinpoches again because it's not as useful for providing relics or tools for divination. Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jul 15, 2014 |
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Jul 15, 2014 01:47
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I'm meditating.
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Jul 15, 2014 04:17
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I'm.
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Jul 15, 2014 05:10
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What is everyone favorite koan? Here is mine: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/3isthatso.html I like it because the wise man doesn't care at all about his reputation or what people think of him. He also takes good care of the child.
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Jul 15, 2014 06:26
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I like to sit. I've had a lot of good sitting at vipassana camps.
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Jul 15, 2014 06:40
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Frykte posted:What is everyone favorite koan? Here is mine: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/3isthatso.html I've always been quite fond of (the many variations of) this one: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/14muddyroad.html
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Jul 18, 2014 23:41
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Rorac posted:I've always been quite fond of (the many variations of) this one: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/14muddyroad.html That is also one of my favorites. However this one is maybe the first koan I ever heard and it has always stuck with me: http://www.ashidakim.com/zenkoans/9themooncannotbestolen.html Thanks for that collection of koans btw. There are quite a few I have not read and I am enjoying slowing reading through them
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Jul 19, 2014 22:18
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What does drinking alcohol or smoking weed do when you meditate?
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Jul 21, 2014 04:27
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The same thing it does when you don't.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:42
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Paramemetic posted:The same thing it does when you don't. There are yogis in India that love to smoke weed for the effect it has on theyre meditation. There's gotta be something going on when you do both.
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Jul 21, 2014 05:06
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Frykte posted:There are yogis in India that love to smoke weed for the effect it has on theyre meditation. There's gotta be something going on when you do both. Yea, it makes you less mindful.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:34
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If you're someone who finds weed relaxing, it is pretty relaxing. But it is pretty clearly antithetical to what Buddhism and Buddhist practice is about.
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Jul 21, 2014 09:07
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Frykte posted:What does drinking alcohol or smoking weed do when you meditate? I would suggest to everyone looking to enhance their meditation, that the best way to do that is to keep meditating; getting better at letting go, practicing more loving-kindness, etc. Using drugs to try to enhance meditation is just wasting time on something with a potentially negative return. I would say that one of the best ways to enhance meditation is to start doing loving-kindness meditation. It also just makes life easier and more enjoyable. I really recommend it. It's great. Also, there's a monestary in Perth and they have an ongoing 'advanced course' which they put on youtube; a guided meditation where at the start an experienced monk talks about a different aspect of meditation each time. At the end of each session they also answer questions, which is often very helpful. The-Mole posted:If you're someone who finds weed relaxing, it is pretty relaxing. But it is pretty clearly antithetical to what Buddhism and Buddhist practice is about. Much better to just learn how to do that at will instead of relying on weed for it.
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Jul 21, 2014 12:22
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Weed and alcohol both alter your perception of reality to some degree. The entire point of meditation (in the buddhist sense, and specifically with insight meditation) is to sit and still your mind to the point of being able to accurately know and see the arising and passing away of all phenomenon. You want to have clarity, and that is something that takes a lot of work. While meditating you are constantly battling with your mind, ego, memories, urges, and anything else your mind can throw at you to keep you from shutting it up. Adding an intoxicant is just one more pollutant to throw into the mix and muddy the water.
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Jul 21, 2014 16:15
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Can anyone tell me about the Buddhist centers in Chicago? I just moved here and am within walking distance of the Tibetan and Zen centers in Uptown. I'm a westerner who's only real understanding of Buddhism comes from meditating in small groups and reading Thich Nhat Hahn, Pema Chodron, Alan Wallace and Trungpa Ripoche. I am worried about going in and ruining an experience that is designed for culturally and ethnically Buddhist people with my dumb goony western misconceptions and cultural appropriation of their religion. I would like to learn and be able to meditate with a teacher who can help me esp. because meditation is occasionally bringing me to weird places that I don't understand.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:28
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I can't speak to the Zen places but most Tibetan places aren't of that ilk. They'll generally welcome you and the sangha will generally be more Western than Tibetan. At my center, the Tibetan community only comes out in force for big celebrations and holidays. As long as you are coming there to genuinely learn about Buddhadharma, and not to try to teach them about the enlightened scientific Western mind etc etc, I wouldn't anticipate a problem. If you could link me to some of the Tibetan places I could give you some brief commentary about what I know of them, but I don't know much Zen so I can't really give any feedback there.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:34
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Sure, the two Tibetan places nearby are http://www.diamondway.org/chicago/ Diamond Way Buddhism USA and http://www.jewelheart.org/chapters/chicago/ Jewel Heart Chicago
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Jul 21, 2014 20:39
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Jewel Heart, which is the center for Gelek Rinpoche, should be very forward thinking, as Rinpoche is pretty modern minded, even webstreaming teachings and running Digital Dharma. He gave back his robes at some point, I don't recall the story surrounding that, so he is a householder Rinpoche. I think this center is mainly Gelug? But I'm not sure. Not that that matters much at the introductory level. The other is Karma Kagyu. I like that they seem to be running some of the students through the preliminary practices, and they seem to offer a lot for beginners. Karma Kagyu is the largest of the Kagyu schools, which is one of the bigger lineages in the US as Shambhala and so on are also Kagyu. Both look like good, well established options. My main concern would be that they look very well put together, which sometimes can mean that while they are aimed for newcomers, they don't always follow through closely with each student or make the lamas highly accessible to beginners. I can't say that for certain about either one, though, because some very well put together centers with high lamas in the US only have a handful of regular Western students. Couldn't give you any particular guidance on which would be "better," both look like they'd do well for a beginner to pop in on.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:48
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Impermanent posted:Can anyone tell me about the Buddhist centers in Chicago? I just moved here and am within walking distance of the Tibetan and Zen centers in Uptown. I'm a westerner who's only real understanding of Buddhism comes from meditating in small groups and reading Thich Nhat Hahn, Pema Chodron, Alan Wallace and Trungpa Ripoche. I would be surprised if you find a Buddhist group that isn't welcoming of newcomers. Also, Dan Leighton who runs the Chicago Zen place recently mentioned is meant to be a good guy. He's definitely extremely knowledgeable.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:24
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Impermanent posted:Sure, the two Tibetan places nearby are Way back on page 9 (I'm slowly reading through the whole thread), some controversy about the Diamond Way and Old Nydahl was mentioned, so maybe you would like to research it some more. Rhymenoceros posted:Also, there's a monestary in Perth and they have an ongoing 'advanced course' which they put on youtube; a guided meditation where at the start an experienced monk talks about a different aspect of meditation each time. At the end of each session they also answer questions, which is often very helpful. Thank you for this. The same monestary also has beginner videos uploaded. Ajahn Brahm has the most calming voice. Dr.Caligari fucked around with this message at 04:01 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 03:55
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What would the Buddha have thought about the phrase "Ignorance is bliss"? Would he agree or would he say its wrong because enlightenment requires you to know about yourself?? What do you goons personally think about this?? I think in today's world it's changing so quickly that it's hard to tell whether or not ignorance or enlightenment is best.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:25
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Frykte posted:What would the Buddha have thought about the phrase "Ignorance is bliss"? Would he agree or would he say its wrong because enlightenment requires you to know about yourself?? What do you goons personally think about this?? I think in today's world it's changing so quickly that it's hard to tell whether or not ignorance or enlightenment is best. Completely the opposite - ignorance is the basic source of all suffering. By not understanding the true nature of things, we are trapped perpetually in samsara, enslaved by our attachment and aversion. By defeating ignorance, we break the chain of rebirth. That said, ignorance of how things really are is not the same as ignorance of for example silly things that don't matter. Learning the details of some animes or even some science disciplines aren't that important, but learning about the true nature of things, that's really important. And ignorance will lead undoubtedly to rebirth.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:32
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Frykte posted:What would the Buddha have thought about the phrase "Ignorance is bliss"? Would he agree or would he say its wrong because enlightenment requires you to know about yourself?? What do you goons personally think about this?? I think in today's world it's changing so quickly that it's hard to tell whether or not ignorance or enlightenment is best. Ignorance, like attachment and aversion, is one of the fundamental problems in Buddhism that is to be avoided and overcome. So the Buddha would have spent a great deal of time telling someone why ignorance is one of the main causes of suffering, and how to see things as they really are. edit: Paramemetic you rascal.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:32
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How necessary is meditation? For example could someone become enlightened by following the 4 noble truths and being really virtuous but they never sit down and count how many breaths their doing for 15 minutes everyday.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:35
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Frykte posted:How necessary is meditation? For example could someone become enlightened by following the 4 noble truths and being really virtuous but they never sit down and count how many breaths their doing for 15 minutes everyday. That particular kind of meditation? Probably not so necessary? I mean, that particular form of Shamatha, of calm-abiding meditation, is a foundation for greater forms of meditation, that are more important. Mahamudra or Dzogchen meditations, in Tibetan tradition. I can't answer for the Theravada tradition, Prickly Pete can maybe provide an excellent answer, but I think there, too, meditation is important. If you practice the four noble truths without meditating on them, you're just mindlessly following dogma. I mean, the four noble truths are accepted through contemplation, they were discovered through contemplation, and that's meditation. Practicing virtue is really important, but if you practice just virtue, you accumulate lots of merit but not much wisdom. In the Tibetan tradition, it's taught that accumulating lots of virtue but not lots of wisdom will lead to rebirth in the formed gods realm, and the opposite, accumulating lots of wisdom but not lots of virtue, will result in rebirth in the formless gods realm. Wisdom and Method in union, in the Tibetan schools, is how to attain Buddhahood. But I don't know much, so one quote from Phakchok Rinpoche, the Supreme Head of the Taklung Kagyu lineage, posted on Facebook recently and which came to mind when you asked your question: Kyabgon Phakchok Rinpoche posted:"Just reading books to understand Dharma!? (Rinpoche laughs) No. You meditate, practice, apply - you again apply to your emotions, apply in your mind, apply in your life, apply in your relationships, apply in friendships, apply to yourself, apply to your head, again apply to your emotions... THEN you meditate! Not applying but just sitting is a joke! Reflection...Meditation...With these two combined, THEN you read books and you will easily understand them, only then will they illuminate your practice." Later, he posted, "If you think you can make real progress on the path without meditation, I'm sorry to say but you are fooling yourself."
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Jul 22, 2014 05:44
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How many difference kinds of meditation are there? I do two forms of meditation: I count my in and out breaths in cycles of four. The other meditation I do is one I invented myself: On my first breath I focus on what I'm seeing with my eyes on my second breath I focus on the sense of touch. On the third breath I focus on what I'm hearing and on the fourth breath I focus on my thoughts. I dunno if this mieditation is "Buddhist" because I invented myself, but what would you say are the meditations that are necessary to become enlightened?? Loving kindness meditation sounds good to me but I've never researched it. What types of meditation did the Buddha suggest???? Thanks
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Jul 22, 2014 06:04
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Frykte posted:How many difference kinds of meditation are there? I do two forms of meditation: I count my in and out breaths in cycles of four. The other meditation I do is one I invented myself: On my first breath I focus on what I'm seeing with my eyes on my second breath I focus on the sense of touch. On the third breath I focus on what I'm hearing and on the fourth breath I focus on my thoughts. I dunno if this mieditation is "Buddhist" because I invented myself, but what would you say are the meditations that are necessary to become enlightened?? Loving kindness meditation sounds good to me but I've never researched it. What types of meditation did the Buddha suggest???? Thanks There are 40 canonical meditation objects in Theravada that are (I think) shared among other traditions as well. Loving-kindness is one of them, as is the meditation on the breath that you are talking about in the first example - counting the breath, focusing on the rising and falling of the abdomen, etc. There are also meditations on the elements, meditating on recollections of the Buddha, compassion, etc. There are also some specific meditations that seem kind of strange in the modern world, like meditating on the qualities of a decomposing corpse. These are specifically designed to combat sensual desire, lust, and that kind of thing. Most meditation books and instruction that I have ever seen stick with the breath. It is always with you, it naturally rises and falls like all other conditioned things, and it was specifically taught by the Buddha to his disciples. The other method you mention sounds interesting but I think it may lead you around in circles, jumping from sensation to sensation instead of making the mind quiet.
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Jul 22, 2014 06:24
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Prickly Pete posted:There are also some specific meditations that seem kind of strange in the modern world, like meditating on the qualities of a decomposing corpse. These are specifically designed to combat sensual desire, lust, and that kind of thing. While I'm disappointed that the meditation I invented will lead me around circles I'm also happy that I also invented the the corpse one. I use the corpse meditation all the time at work whenever I see a particular sexy co-worker of mine. She makes me insanaly lustful and imagining her insides helps a lot. I don't like to imagine her as a corpse but I try and imagine that I have X-Ray vision. I look at her abdomen and imagine all the intestines she has and her skeleton and I find that this helps a lot with combating lust. Thanks!
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Jul 22, 2014 06:32
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Frykte posted:How many difference kinds of meditation are there? I do two forms of meditation: I count my in and out breaths in cycles of four. The other meditation I do is one I invented myself: On my first breath I focus on what I'm seeing with my eyes on my second breath I focus on the sense of touch. On the third breath I focus on what I'm hearing and on the fourth breath I focus on my thoughts. I dunno if this mieditation is "Buddhist" because I invented myself, but what would you say are the meditations that are necessary to become enlightened?? Loving kindness meditation sounds good to me but I've never researched it. What types of meditation did the Buddha suggest???? Thanks A lot. What Pete said, and entering into the Tibetan side there are "yogas" (think of it as a kind of meditation/visualization) where one focuses on various deities (there are a bunch). Some yogas have mantras like "Om Mani Padme Hum" (or Om Mani Peme Hung in Tibetan) which you may have heard of. Some of these yogas require you receive "empowerments" (besically orally translated permission from a lama) to do them, as doing them without training and permission may cause harm - this rabbit hole goes deep, so I'm not going to expound anymore. Long story short, there are a LOT of different types. There are lots of YouTube videos for various meditations. A popular one is "loving kindness" meditation and other meditations based on compassion. Here is a link to one (this is Tibetan) called Tonglen which is a common meditation in Tibetan Buddhism, and IMO is a really good one to practice regularly and is good for you and all sentient beings. It's pretty easy to understand (and doesn't require empowerments). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjeDh2xw4Qw Frykte posted:While I'm disappointed that the meditation I invented will lead me around circles I'm also happy that I also invented the the corpse one. I use the corpse meditation all the time at work whenever I see a particular sexy co-worker of mine. She makes me insanaly lustful and imagining her insides helps a lot. I don't like to imagine her as a corpse but I try and imagine that I have X-Ray vision. I look at her abdomen and imagine all the intestines she has and her skeleton and I find that this helps a lot with combating lust. Thanks! Not to be the Debby-Downer, but picturing the object of one's desire as a decomposing corpse has been around for many centuries. It is recommended to meditate on death regularly. I have a yak bone wrist mala made of skulls I wear to constantly remind me of death. Count Freebasie fucked around with this message at 12:14 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 12:09
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Frykte posted:While I'm disappointed that the meditation I invented will lead me around circles I'm also happy that I also invented the the corpse one. I use the corpse meditation all the time at work whenever I see a particular sexy co-worker of mine. She makes me insanaly lustful and imagining her insides helps a lot. I don't like to imagine her as a corpse but I try and imagine that I have X-Ray vision. I look at her abdomen and imagine all the intestines she has and her skeleton and I find that this helps a lot with combating lust. Thanks! This is creepy
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Jul 22, 2014 19:04
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I believe by "invented" he means he came up with the idea for himself, not that he thinks he's the first person ever to do it. Shantideva straight up talks about loved ones as animated cadavers, rotting etc. as a way of battling lustful thinking.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:11
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The-Mole posted:This is creepy Some of the death meditations are discussed in great detail in the Visuddhimagga, along with meditation on the body and the components of the body. When one becomes attached to their own form or the form of others, and the beauty of that form, it is said that instead focusing on the body as a collection of blood, tissues, sinews, phlegm, bile and bones - impermanent and decaying structures in a big pile - can be a good antidote for attachment and lust. It sounds pretty intense but it is said to be effective, and has been a canonical meditation since right after the time of the 1st council I believe, if not earlier.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:23
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I know it is not a new idea, but it is a peculiar chunk of Buddhism to adopt. There's a long history of people taking corpse-meditations, uh, way too literally and getting into all kinds of weird trouble (from legal to psychological to spiritual) with them. Then there's a whole other danger around trying to repress urges/thoughts. That's the realm of practice that it is usually suggested to talk to actual Buddhist teachers about before engaging in. I'm wary personally of efforts to meditate away troubles (especially when treated as do X meditation Y problem goes away). That said, the more common approach to lust that I've heard is to just treat (and view others) as you would a brother/sister or parent/grandparent. I've heard that suggested most notably in Mahayana and Vajrayana (in which the practice of treating others with the same respect/care/concern that you would your own family is basically the essence of the boddhisattva ideal), though I've also heard it mentioned many times in Theravadan talks. What he described is more the realm of giving power to aversions. Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 19:45
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It isn't for everyone, for sure. And as far as I can tell, it isn't a very common meditation technique. I've only heard of it being used by actual monastics, who are of course dealing with a more intense level of sensual control. I would think that a layperson wouldn't really need these techniques unless they were on a long retreat or period of training, or living at a monastery. As far as meditating on a certain idea to combat another one - I think the principle itself is fine. The Brahmaviharas (especially Metta and equanimity) are used in that way pretty frequently.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:53
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