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Asked this in the digital thread but might get a better answer here. Comixology has the 2010-13 'X-Men' on sale right now. 42 issue bundle, $40. Is that run any good? I remember them starting it off with a vampire story so that's not a good sign. Neo_Reloaded posted:Um, no? You don't apply rules to time travel. It works however I/you/anyone says it works until something directly contradicts it.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:23
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Aphrodite posted:You don't apply rules to time travel. It works however I/you/anyone says it works until something directly contradicts it. Sure, for fundamentally unknowable paradox-related issues like "Will going back in time alter what has already happened in my timeline, or will it create a new tangent universe?" I also give Bendis a total pass on a) the whole issue of the Brotherhood always making their next attempt at a past date that is later than the past date of their prior attempt and b) the various paradoxes of warning yourself about prior time travel events and whether causality ever comes into play there. But for basic basic basic cause-effect stuff, like writing a note in the past to get a message to the future? I stand by my "Ummm no." Bendis wasn't inventing some new concept of time travel when he had the Brotherhood use the note system to warn their future self - that's probably the most straightforward time-travel mechanism used by any Marvel writer in years. The note begins its physical life in 2014, travels through time linearly along with everything else, and is eventually seen by Xavier Jr. and co. in the future - no time travel, just A leads to B. If A is written by a prisoner in a superjail who is supposed to be under intense scrutiny, it doesn't make sense how it makes it to B without being laughed at and then burned/shredded by Maria Hill. edit: And even this, something I feel is blatantly lacking in logic and could have been easily sidestepped if he didn't try to be so cute about everything, wouldn't bug me as much if there were anything of substance going on in the book. But no, there's certainly no characterization or thematic work going on, so nitpicky plot details are all there really is to discuss besides just saying "Well that sucked." Neo_Reloaded fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jul 11, 2014 |
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Jul 11, 2014 20:33
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He can just write the note to himself in coded paragraphs or any kind of made up moonspeak that only he/his brother knows about, so that any jailer who looks at it thinks nothing of it, eventually sneaks it out and does a Back To The Future II for it to be delivered to Room 589, Bumblefuck Hotel, Madripoor on date whatever. Job done.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:42
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Sentinel Red posted:He can just write the note to himself in coded paragraphs or any kind of made up moonspeak that only he/his brother knows about, so that any jailer who looks at it thinks nothing of it, eventually sneaks it out and does a Back To The Future II for it to be delivered to Room 589, Bumblefuck Hotel, Madripoor on date whatever. Job done. No notes should be allowed from psychic supergeniuses from the future. I'm fine with some set of circumstances in the vast number of years available to him resulting in a note making its way out of the jail, but for him to, on day 1, just ask for a piece of paper to write a note is asinine. But whatever, derail done - I've made my point as far as I wish to argue it.
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Jul 11, 2014 20:46
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Why does he need a note in the first place? Unless Xavier was somehow mindwiped in between the present and the future, he should still be able to recognize what went wrong, escape prison at some point, and then use the time travel machine to go back. The note can't be for someone else in case he dies, either. His whole plan hinges on him being alive in the future to mind-control everyone into working for him; Xavier's abilities were the only reason he and Raze were even able to get access to Hank's time machine. The only thing writing the note achieves is to make SHIELD look dumber than usual. Like most things in Bendis' run, the note is just something that sounds cool until you think about it for five seconds and realize how stupid it is.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:14
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HorseRenoir posted:Why does he need a note in the first place? Unless Xavier was somehow mindwiped in between the present and the future, he should still be able to recognize what went wrong, escape prison at some point, and then use the time travel machine to go back. The note can't be for someone else in case he dies, either. His whole plan hinges on him being alive in the future to mind-control everyone into working for him; Xavier's abilities were the only reason he and Raze were even able to get access to Hank's time machine. The only thing writing the note achieves is to make SHIELD look dumber than usual. He has to be alive in the future just means that the baby him in 2014 cannot die and must survive to 2055 or whatever. However, that version will make the same mistake and end up defeated if the future him (relative to his consciousness) is unable to send a note from the past (relative to the timeline) explaining what he did wrong. Presumably, successfully getting this note to whatever channel results in it arriving intact in 2055 closes some time loop and causes the jailed version of him to vanish - or perhaps not depending on how loose you want to get with time travel rules, he could stay jailed and a different copy of him (warned by the note) will arrive in the past at a different time, resulting in multiple Xavier Jr.'s. The time travel logic gets very sticky if you want to continue down that path of reasoning, but the important part is that, yes, the note (or a surviving memberhood of the Brotherhood who shares his goals, i.e. just him and Raze) must survive long enough to impart information of the failed time travel event to Xavier Jr. / Raze before they themselves attempt their time travel plan. Rereading your post, it seems you expect the time traveling Xavier to go back in time again, i.e. the same body and consciousness - I suppose that's possible, but that isn't what they were planning on, and their age and casualties would stack through each iteration and they'd eventually end up old, damaged, and lacking in numbers. By just imparting information to their past-selves (relative to their consciousnesses) before they time-traveled, they get to start off completely fresh again - same age, same health, same numbers. Like hitting the reset switch on a video game, but obviously still remembering where you went wrong last time. quote:Like most things in Bendis' run, the note is just something that sounds cool until you think about it for five seconds and realize how stupid it is. I agree with you here.
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Jul 11, 2014 21:29
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My friend read Avengers vs X-Men. Against my advice, he read the What If? and regretted it. Now we're arguing about Cyclops as a terrible person. (I'm for, he's against) Comics are pretty fun!
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Jul 14, 2014 09:55
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Schneider Heim posted:My friend read Avengers vs X-Men. Against my advice, he read the What If? and regretted it. I wouldn't call him a terrible person. Yes, he's made a lot of bad decisions, but because he was pushed so far. He snapped. I'd call him more temporarily crazy than terrible.
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Jul 14, 2014 16:36
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Also he's right.
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Jul 14, 2014 17:10
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He was right. He can't be currently right because he currently has authority over QQ. God I just want Quire in everything. And Evan. And Broo.
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Jul 14, 2014 17:37
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Quire is at the Jean Grey School, isn't he?
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Jul 14, 2014 17:56
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Schneider Heim posted:My friend read Avengers vs X-Men. Against my advice, he read the What If? and regretted it. The strangest thing is the idea AvX changed how Cyclops was written at all, he's rebelled so many times for so long that "Not you parent's Cyclops" actually is a chunk of people parent's Cyclops.
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Jul 14, 2014 18:11
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Well in the vast majority of media Cyclops is still portrayed as hopelessly square, it's baffling to me that anyone would prefer that version of the character.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:14
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DynamicSloth posted:Well in the vast majority of media Cyclops is still portrayed as hopelessly square, it's baffling to me that anyone would prefer that version of the character. Some people find that its hip to be square
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Jul 14, 2014 19:23
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DynamicSloth posted:Well in the vast majority of media Cyclops is still portrayed as hopelessly square, it's baffling to me that anyone would prefer that version of the character. A lot of people genuinely do like, respect, and identify with squares, dorks, dweebs, stuffed shirts, and the like. Even people who are otherwise hip (not me obviously). Of course it depends on a good writer to write said characters with nuance and flair, but still.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:26
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mind the walrus posted:A lot of people genuinely do like, respect, and identify with squares, dorks, dweebs, stuffed shirts, and the like. Even people who are otherwise hip (not me obviously). Of course it depends on a good writer to write said characters with nuance and flair, but still. Plus Wolverine is the loner "I don't have to do what you say dad!" type in those so it wouldn't work if they are both like that. Someone has to be the leader.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:34
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DynamicSloth posted:Well in the vast majority of media Cyclops is still portrayed as hopelessly square, it's baffling to me that anyone would prefer that version of the character. Super tactical leader Cyclops is my favorite. I guess he could be considered hopelessly square but I like that character. Given his training Cyclops should be the best field leader. Cyclops the way he is written currently seems like a try hard.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:35
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corillon posted:Super tactical leader Cyclops is my favorite. I guess he could be considered hopelessly square but I like that character. Given his training Cyclops should be the best field leader. Being good at tactics isn't a personality trait, any iteration of the character can be good at tactics, I'm talking about the 90s cartoon/movie version of Cyclops most of the public is familiar with, neither of which are particularly competent at anything other than complaining that Wolverine is a loose cannon.
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Jul 14, 2014 19:58
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DynamicSloth posted:Being good at tactics isn't a personality trait, any iteration of the character can be good at tactics, I'm talking about the 90s cartoon/movie version of Cyclops most of the public is familiar with, neither of which are particularly competent at anything other than complaining that Wolverine is a loose cannon. The problem wasn't he was too square, its that the cartoon was terribly written and everyone was incompetent.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:16
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If anything I think current Cyclops should be written as even more "rogue leader" than he is. I've been following X-Men since House of M and if your only idea of pre-M-Day Cyclops is 90s Cartoon Cyclops it's a fun character arc as he gets slightly more militaristic because he's been waiting his whole life for this scenario to happen and knows his role in it, then you have him overseeing X-Force. And you get the impression he's not sorry about that, he's only sorry he got found out. Then he kinda levels out until AvX, where the trauma of basically getting high (on cosmic power) and killing his surrogate father makes him go completely over the edge. Honestly, instead of starting up a new school he should have been on Cable's X-Force (the power dynamic would have been incredible) before the upcoming reconciliation with the other X-Men, which, swear to god, HAS to happen soon. Then he could have taken on a period of "oh god, was my midlife crisis THAT public?", trying to shy away while other X-Men try to convince him he's needed to train students again.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:20
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CharlestheHammer posted:The problem wasn't he was too square, its that the cartoon was terribly written and everyone was incompetent. This, but the movies too. Diet Poison posted:Honestly, instead of starting up a new school he should have been on Cable's X-Force (the power dynamic would have been incredible) Good god yes.
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Jul 14, 2014 20:25
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Diet Poison posted:If anything I think current Cyclops should be written as even more "rogue leader" than he is. I've been following X-Men since House of M and if your only idea of pre-M-Day Cyclops is 90s Cartoon Cyclops it's a fun character arc as he gets slightly more militaristic because he's been waiting his whole life for this scenario to happen and knows his role in it, then you have him overseeing X-Force. And you get the impression he's not sorry about that, he's only sorry he got found out. Then he kinda levels out until AvX, where the trauma of basically getting high (on cosmic power) and killing his surrogate father makes him go completely over the edge. Honestly, instead of starting up a new school he should have been on Cable's X-Force (the power dynamic would have been incredible) before the upcoming reconciliation with the other X-Men, which, swear to god, HAS to happen soon. Then he could have taken on a period of "oh god, was my midlife crisis THAT public?", trying to shy away while other X-Men try to convince him he's needed to train students again. Well the guy on the other side of the Schism is dying in 2 months, so...
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Jul 14, 2014 20:30
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66 issues of Claremont's X-Men run are on sale with Comixology. Would you guys recommend it?
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Jul 15, 2014 05:24
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Web Jew.0 posted:66 issues of Claremont's X-Men run are on sale with Comixology. Would you guys recommend it?
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Jul 15, 2014 13:44
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Bendis has done an interview explaining how the X-Men franchise is about to be changed forever etc etc.
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Jul 16, 2014 01:52
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It's like he keeps daring readers that he will find a way to gently caress up the series more and more somehow. Emo goth Dazzler and further pissing on Xavier's grave aren't enough, oh no, he must turn those into an earth shaking event that will forever change everything. "When Xavier's not in the book, it's more interesting. Then I was the one that said, 'Well, let's just kill him, then! What would be more interesting than that?' Hickman still doesn't forgive me for loving up his Illuminati by doing that." "I actually got a lot of thank yous [for killing Dark Beast]. There are some people that hate Hank McCoy so much that any version that you kill of him is good. I had some people like, 'Well, that's a bad mystery, because you pulled him out of...' but like two issues ago, they guessed it was Hank. They said, 'Hank is the one that has to be doing this.' They just had the wrong Hank. It's a solid, loopy mystery reveal. Just because you couldn't guess it doesn't mean it didn't work." Look at this smug bullshit. And then he goes on to describe how turning Dazzler into some emo goth reject is "bringing her character into the future".
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Jul 16, 2014 02:53
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So the big Xavier event going on right now is "Original Sin." He strangled his own evil twin alien thing in the womb, how on earth do you get more original than that?
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Jul 16, 2014 02:57
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Five months after My Chemical Romance broke up is a great time to make Dazzler relevant again by turning her emo, mmm-hmmm, yes, yes.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:00
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mind the walrus posted:So the big Xavier event going on right now is "Original Sin." He strangled his own evil twin alien thing in the womb, how on earth do you get more original than that? Poke a badger with a spoon?
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Jul 16, 2014 03:02
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Saoshyant posted:Bendis Ugh, I think I'm better off ignoring comic writers' twitter feeds and interviews from now on. As a whole they just seem weirdly more petty and childish than writers in other forms of media.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:03
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I will say, I like the idea of the X-Men literally waiting a while before opening up Xavier's will because "well, dude could come back, it's happened before."
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Jul 16, 2014 03:07
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mind the walrus posted:So the big Xavier event going on right now is "Original Sin." He strangled his own evil twin alien thing in the womb, how on earth do you get more original than that? The actual Original Sin is a Nick Fury thing.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:07
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The only comic writer Twitter worth following is CB Cebulski's because he posts pictures of cool foods he eats in Japan and stuff. Remender's is okay. A looooot of them suck.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:07
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I will say, I like the idea of the X-Men literally waiting a while before opening up Xavier's will because "well, dude could come back, it's happened before." Like when Theresa was in denial about Banshee actually being dead and thinking he'd be back.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:13
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I almost always really like Bendis' enthusiasm in interviews, I never really read any of it as taunting or malicious. If there's anything "childish" about it, it's often a child-like glee in being able to tell stories about characters he grew up with, which I don't know, I can happily indulge him in. Whatever else he is, he's a talented hype man, and that entails being kind of bombastic and hyperbolic and a little provocative. I rarely think he crosses the line into the sort of meanness or pettiness I often see attributed to him (for example, as far as I know him and Hickman are pals-- I doubt the latter really nurses a serious grudge about Xavier dying). That being said, I think he's sort of kidding himself about the Dark Beast reveal. That was truly, truly a damp squib of a plot resolution.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:48
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Archyduke posted:I almost always really like Bendis' enthusiasm in interviews, I never really read any of it as taunting or malicious. If there's anything "childish" about it, it's often a child-like glee in being able to tell stories about characters he grew up with, which I don't know, I can happily indulge him in. Whatever else he is, he's a talented hype man, and that entails being kind of bombastic and hyperbolic and a little provocative. I rarely think he crosses the line into the sort of meanness or pettiness I often see attributed to him (for example, as far as I know him and Hickman are pals-- I doubt the latter really nurses a serious grudge about Xavier dying). That being said, I think he's sort of kidding himself about the Dark Beast reveal. That was truly, truly a damp squib of a plot resolution. Bendis is living the ultimate fan boy dream. Motherfucker LOVES comics. Geoff Johns is like a bizarro Bendis. They both became the major deciders for their universe and brought their favorite childhood heroes to the forefront. Bendis took characters like Luke Cage who'd either been forgotten or not used well and made them major Marvel players. Johns did the same thing, but in the process hosed over years of storytelling and pushed other, more modern characters to the sidelines.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:52
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Archyduke posted:I almost always really like Bendis' enthusiasm in interviews, I never really read any of it as taunting or malicious. If there's anything "childish" about it, it's often a child-like glee in being able to tell stories about characters he grew up with, which I don't know, I can happily indulge him in. Whatever else he is, he's a talented hype man, and that entails being kind of bombastic and hyperbolic and a little provocative. I rarely think he crosses the line into the sort of meanness or pettiness I often see attributed to him (for example, as far as I know him and Hickman are pals-- I doubt the latter really nurses a serious grudge about Xavier dying). That being said, I think he's sort of kidding himself about the Dark Beast reveal. That was truly, truly a damp squib of a plot resolution. The part he quoted was pretty childish, though I don't think anyone is taking issue with the Hickman part.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:52
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Unmature posted:Bendis is living the ultimate fan boy dream. Motherfucker LOVES comics. Geoff Johns is like a bizarro Bendis. They both became the major deciders for their universe and brought their favorite childhood heroes to the forefront. Bendis took characters like Luke Cage who'd either been forgotten or not used well and made them major Marvel players. Johns did the same thing, but in the process hosed over years of storytelling and pushed other, more modern characters to the sidelines. That's essentially how I feel. In 20 years, I think people will look back at Bendis' time at Marvel and think of opening up the basic Avengers concept, revitalizing a bunch of neglected characters, and orchestrating that long metaplot from Disassembled to Siege. His worst moments are basically just fumbles-- the last couple years of his Avengers, some of his pacing on X-Men, Age of Ultron, etc. It's just forgettable. Overall, he's opened up a lot more storytelling avenues for other writers than he's closed off, and I think that's nothing to scoff at.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:55
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Archyduke posted:That's essentially how I feel. In 20 years, I think people will look back at Bendis' time at Marvel and think of opening up the basic Avengers concept, revitalizing a bunch of neglected characters, and orchestrating that long metaplot from Disassembled to Siege. His worst moments are basically just fumbles-- the last couple years of his Avengers, some of his pacing on X-Men, Age of Ultron, etc. It's just forgettable. Overall, he's opened up a lot more storytelling avenues for other writers than he's closed off, and I think that's nothing to scoff at. Also not cowering to racist readers which many writers have done. How many times has a character been made black or had a black person replace them only to backpedal later because of the reader response? Bendis don't care. He'll make anyone he wants black.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:13
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Unmature posted:Also not cowering to racist readers which many writers have done. How many times has a character been made black or had a black person replace them only to backpedal later because of the reader response? Bendis don't care. He'll make anyone he wants black. None that I can think of.
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Jul 16, 2014 04:33
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