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Leperflesh posted:Yeah, I agree with this for the most part, but I don't think even if (for example) Berryjon had run north, they could have held off the rim worlders indefinitely. Concentrating the clan forces near the northern vehicles would have given them the ability to protect each other better, but would also have given PTN the ability to concentrate his forces and have good shots every turn for more of his mechs. Oh, they were SUPER dead in the long (possibly not so long) run, agreed. It was a 2:1 BV match-up, no chance there. But PTN mentioned further back - like, weeks ago at this point - that if the CVs were alive when the Players died, it was a win for them. So that kind of suicidal last stand, even if it actually got them killed faster, sounds like the right plan to me. I've kinda been interpreting this mission as like a Wave Mode in an FPS, where the objective is to kill as many things as possible without losing a control point until finally you get overwhelmed, and at the end you get a score based on how you did. "Victory" becomes less binary under that circumstance. I may just be projecting how I would run such a mission, though, and your vision may be closer to the mark. I'll be interested in hearing PTN's thoughts on the victory conditions in the AAR, if he goes into them. It might clear up the question.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:41
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Leperflesh posted:But if you assume something like not rolling better than two standard deviations from the norm, I'm not convinced they had a chance to win, and by win I actually mean just keep all of the command vehicles alive. GenericServices posted:We can't really ask a Player to expend their rare, long-awaited chance to play by sending "Run five hexes north" for two weeks straight when "crush the dezgra tin cans beneath my feet!" is right there and being actively encouraged by the thread.
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Jul 15, 2014 22:27
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hooman posted:
I would love a fluff piece about this Crab pilots meteoric ascension in the ranks after this mission is over.
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Jul 16, 2014 00:01
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Anybody have a copy of the crab gif?
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Jul 16, 2014 00:29
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goatface posted:Space Operations Adaptation? If you build an industrial mech it doesn't have it until you environmentally seal it, when it gains both. That sounds about right!
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Jul 16, 2014 02:43
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Leperflesh posted:hat's really good to know, and something I think we should all take into account. Our choices of scenario aren't only about shaping the story, they also determine to some degree the difficulty of the scenario the next batch of players will face. This is more true than you know. Every mission up for vote is different, but many missions in the same vote share similar themes (for example: the Bounty Hunter mission was this mission, in reverse, with greatly reduced forces). You would've had fun watching a player Warhammer, Phoenix Hawk, Shadow Hawk, and Thunderbolt take on a Stormcrow playing Hide-and-Seek trying to buy time for the rest of his star to power up. The end goal of the players would've been "taking as many unpowered Clan machines as possible." So similar overall tone, but with different pacing and different stakes.
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Jul 16, 2014 03:40
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Endomorphic posted:There's probably a different thread for role-playing responsible and sensibly risk averse military decisions. Or something. This thread is about Giant Stompy Robots That Shoot Lightening And Then Explode. Yeah I'd be honest with you: between "manoeuvre for a turn to get to a better position" or "move to an hex where I can shoot something, even with worse to hit ratio", the second one easily wins out  At least for an inexperienced player with a 2+ years waiting list 
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Jul 16, 2014 08:42
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That Italian Guy posted:Yeah I'd be honest with you: between "manoeuvre for a turn to get to a better position" or "move to an hex where I can shoot something, even with worse to hit ratio", the second one easily wins out Both of those are options only if the opportunity to DFA isn't available. :battletech:
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Jul 16, 2014 15:18
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Endomorphic posted:There's probably a different thread for role-playing responsible and sensibly risk averse military decisions. Or something. This thread is about Giant Stompy Robots That Shoot Lightening And Then Explode. Role-playing proper and sensible risk-averse decisions when you are a Clanner means you are a bad role-player.
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Jul 16, 2014 17:46
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Defiance Industries posted:Role-playing proper and sensible risk-averse decisions when you are a Clanner means you are a bad role-player. So our guiding light when playing as a Clanner should be "Just think of the glory!  "?
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Jul 16, 2014 18:36
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Soup Inspector posted:So our guiding light when playing as a Clanner should be "Just think of the glory! The entire Clan system is designed around the idea that people who take stupid, unnecessary risks but somehow manage to survive without learning not to do that again are the most suited to lead. The Gray Death Legion would be worshiped as gods there.
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Jul 16, 2014 18:47
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It makes their end in the PTNverse all the more amusing. 
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Jul 16, 2014 18:58
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Pooncha posted:It makes their end in the PTNverse all the more amusing. Assuming that wasn't just a clever ruse that will be revealed when ilKhan Grayson disembarks on Terra.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:40
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BMcDonough posted:Assuming that wasn't just a clever ruse that will be revealed when ilKhan Grayson disembarks on Terra. Considering PTN's well-known disdain for the GDL, that's about as likely as me writing love letters to Hanse Davion.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:44
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Defiance Industries posted:Considering PTN's well-known disdain for the GDL, that's about as likely as me writing love letters to Hanse Davion. Hey at least the old fox knew a bit of how the game was played. Also you could hope to lure him into a trap. Like a counter-ambush of the counter-ambush he'd set up after receiving a love letter out of the blue.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:46
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Defiance Industries posted:Considering PTN's well-known disdain for the GDL, that's about as likely as me writing love letters to Hanse Davion. so it makes it more likely that the GDL will show up in the meta-updates as the clan bondsmen with the most servile jobs. "hey...bondsman Steiner requires a suppository for bowel relief....bondsman Grayson, thats your job." quantumfoam fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 21:01
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tuluk posted:so it makes it more likely that the GDL will show up in the meta-updates as the clan bondsmen with the most servile jobs. Nah, they're all dead. Probably.
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Jul 17, 2014 03:07
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PoptartsNinja posted:Probably. Is it possible we can get those nuke happy space Texans to give their last known location a visit? Best to be sure and all.
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Jul 17, 2014 03:32
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Defiance Industries posted:Considering PTN's well-known disdain for the GDL, that's about as likely as me writing love letters to Hanse Davion. I actually never read any of the GDL novels, but what am I missing with them? By the time I got in the game they were pretty much on their way out in the fiction I guess. I seriously can't see them being contenders for the most obnoxious merc company like the Black Thorns or something.
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Jul 17, 2014 04:03
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Holybat posted:I actually never read any of the GDL novels, but what am I missing with them? By the time I got in the game they were pretty much on their way out in the fiction I guess. I seriously can't see them being contenders for the most obnoxious merc company like the Black Thorns or something. They get into terrible situations, usually because they make bad decisions. Then they somehow get out of them, usually thanks to happenstance (for example, being cornered by a MechWarrior who is so afraid of fire that she surrenders her mech to the main character when he points and inferno launcher at her). Then at the end, instead of learning from what they did, they congratulate themselves on getting out of a jam. Their final novel is basically "the GDL's bullshit doesn't work this time" and they all die. They're not as obnoxious as the Black Thorns because they weren't written to be psychotics like the Thorns' leader, but they are very frustrating.
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Jul 17, 2014 04:10
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I dunno man, writing a series of unbearable mary sues who have the galaxy bend around their survival just to pull back the curtains and kill them all in the last book seems like an amazing meta-troll on the part of the author if it was deliberate.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:13
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Defiance Industries posted:They get into terrible situations, usually because they make bad decisions. Then they somehow get out of them, usually thanks to happenstance (for example, being cornered by a MechWarrior who is so afraid of fire that she surrenders her mech to the main character when he points and inferno launcher at her). Then at the end, instead of learning from what they did, they congratulate themselves on getting out of a jam. Their final novel is basically "the GDL's bullshit doesn't work this time" and they all die. I didn't know they'd written up the scenario that killed them. Last GDL book I read was Operation Excalibur, I think, which was...forgettable. I always kind of wanted to know more about the bad time they had vs the Clans, too, between Price of Glory and Blood of Heroes. Ramage died in that one.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:52
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Voyager I posted:I dunno man, writing a series of unbearable mary sues who have the galaxy bend around their survival just to pull back the curtains and kill them all in the last book seems like an amazing meta-troll on the part of the author if it was deliberate. A different author wrote the last book, so it may have been a different sort of meta-troll. Poor Davis McCall, killed by a loving Rakshasa.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:58
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I wonder if there will be any ridiculous cargo cult mechs like that in this thread.
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Jul 17, 2014 06:02
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The Merry Marauder posted:A different author wrote the last book, so it may have been a different sort of meta-troll. I wish they'd have pulled that same thing with Stackpole's characters. Victor is still as smart as he ever was but now his antagonists aren't complete idiots, gets killed in twelve pages.
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Jul 17, 2014 06:48
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Defiance Industries posted:I wish they'd have pulled that same thing with Stackpole's characters. Victor is still as smart as he ever was but now his antagonists aren't complete idiots, gets killed in twelve pages. That would have been amusing, but I think Victor was Stackpole's literal mechwarrior: the battletech RPG character. So Victor was unkillable until Stackpole left FASA.
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Jul 17, 2014 07:03
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At the very least VSD won't be making an appearance in this timeline. (In PTN's voice) Probably.
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Jul 17, 2014 07:33
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The Merry Marauder posted:A different author wrote the last book, so it may have been a different sort of meta-troll. That book absolutely reads like the author was trolling the author of the other GDL books, or that someone at FASA/Catalyst had a vendetta towards the GDL they finally got to express. A rough plot summary: The main character of the other books dies of cancer and his wife suddenly forgets everything she knows about leading a mercenary unit. Then every other character gets killed off one by one in terrible ways, including the above "elite mechwarrior in a Highlander goes out like a chump to some random grunt." Finally, the wife gets her 'Mech shot out from under her and she gets gunned down by infantry. The End. I remember hating that book at first, then ending up loving it just because it's so spiteful. Literally everyone dies, except for the son of the main character... who is on Tharkad right around the time that the Jihad starts. Someone REALLY hated the GDL.
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Jul 17, 2014 08:09
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They also make it extremely clear that the son of the GDL commander didn't survive in the Tharkad Jihad campaign. It says that at two different points, the Royal Guard (which he was in at the start of the jihad) had only one living member, Archon Peter. Then their battle armor company (because they needed to have their own factory that made battle armor) goes bankrupt and gets bought up by Defiance of Furillo.
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Jul 17, 2014 08:13
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Ba Donk a Bonk posted:That book absolutely reads like the author was trolling the author of the other GDL books, or that someone at FASA/Catalyst had a vendetta towards the GDL they finally got to express. Given what has been said about the burning hatred they now have for Mary Sues, maybe it was FASA/Catalyst way to say "no more" 
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Jul 17, 2014 08:37
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But wouldn't their deaths have been more poetic if the husband and wife made the same mistakes they usually did rather than develop cancer and amnesia?
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Jul 17, 2014 10:39
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Ba Donk a Bonk posted:Someone REALLY hated the GDL. And now Catalyst has a "no more mercenaries" stance. Coincidence?
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Jul 17, 2014 15:48
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Defiance Industries posted:They get into terrible situations, usually because they make bad decisions. Then they somehow get out of them, usually thanks to happenstance (for example, being cornered by a MechWarrior who is so afraid of fire that she surrenders her mech to the main character when he points and inferno launcher at her). Then at the end, instead of learning from what they did, they congratulate themselves on getting out of a jam. Their final novel is basically "the GDL's bullshit doesn't work this time" and they all die. And every book ends with them getting a shitload of shiny new mechs for free.
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Jul 17, 2014 15:55
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Readingaccount posted:But wouldn't their deaths have been more poetic if the husband and wife made the same mistakes they usually did rather than develop cancer and amnesia? But Lori DID make the same mistakes they always did: namely failing at the most basic levels of planning and relying on outlandish trick plays to carry the game.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:10
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PoptartsNinja posted:And now Catalyst has a "no more mercenaries" stance. Coincidence? Do you mean catalyst writers no longer have pet units like the GDL or the Black Thorns? Because if so, great because it seems to be the source of a lot of really stupid poo poo in the canon. edit: I've picked up my friend's copy of The Dying Time and man it's hilarious. Like I said before I'm not familiar with any of the GDL stories, but seriously who the gently caress thought it'd be a good idea to garrison the most critical factory complex in Lyran space with a merc unit that apparently was responsible for shooting the Defiance Protection Force's commander out of his first mech and presumably many others in the DPF. Yeah nothing bad will come of having a merc unit that is seen as basically the loving enemy by the current corporate and regular army garrison nosiree Holybat fucked around with this message at 17:59 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 17:53
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Holybat posted:I've picked up my friend's copy of The Dying Time and man it's hilarious. Like I said before I'm not familiar with any of the GDL stories, but seriously who the gently caress thought it'd be a good idea to garrison the most critical factory complex in Lyran space with a merc unit that apparently was responsible for shooting the Defiance Protection Force's commander out of his first mech and presumably many others in the DPF. Yeah nothing bad will come of having a merc unit that is seen as basically the loving enemy by the current corporate and regular army garrison nosiree Must have been the same dudes who worked at Comstar and decided to garrison the single most important world in the Inner Sphere, Terra, with a single merc regiment.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:29
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Carbolic posted:Must have been the same dudes who worked at Comstar and decided to garrison the single most important world in the Inner Sphere, Terra, with a single merc regiment. There's also the ComStar Terran Defense Force, which is two regiments. It probably would have worked if WoB hadn't replaced the mercenary regiment that ComStar hired with impostors AND ComStar wasn't willing to use Terra's defense network for orbital fire support. It's really just one of a whole chain of bad decisions they made. That part is kind of the low point in mainline BT novels making sense. Focht says Terra is only important as a symbol, pulls most of the garrison, decides he doesn't care about the place they get most of their equipment and all of their JumpShips, DropShips and WarShips.
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Jul 18, 2014 02:35
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Defiance Industries posted:There's also the ComStar Terran Defense Force, which is two regiments. It probably would have worked if WoB hadn't replaced the mercenary regiment that ComStar hired with impostors AND ComStar wasn't willing to use Terra's defense network for orbital fire support. It's really just one of a whole chain of bad decisions they made. Whoops you are right, they had the 201st Division and, according to the Comstar sourcebook, elements of the 104th rebuilding on Terra. The two mercenary regiments of Brion's Legion, the original Terran Defence Force from the 20 Year Update, were the guys the Centauri Lancers were supposed to be replacing. I have to admit Comstar pulling 72 divisions out of thin air didn't make any sense either, but ignoring the value of Terra was particularly bad given how it then became a key element in how the WoB fueled the Jihad. Here's a question for old BT fans. In the mid 90s I remember seeing, at my local game store, a product with a name like the Mechwarrior Dossier or something like that. It was basically a white file folder with a House logo on the front (the one I saw was Liao, I believe) and some papers inside. Definitely not a House book, since it wasn't bound and the covers were white. This could be a totally invented memory, since I can't seem to find any record of something like this online. Is this ringing a bell for anyone? Could it have been some sort of unauthorized knockoff? I am willing to admit that my memory could be playing tricks on me, not unlike the phantom "original Comstar" book people seem to think they once saw.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:09
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Not familiar with those, to be honest. But by "original ComStar book" do you mean the one from 1989 that came out right after the end of the Clan Invasion, when Focht took over ComStar? That book is a hilarious bookend to the House books, since so much of it is Focht saying "that assassination that caused this war, or this disaster that sabotaged your R&D program? That was ROM. Fooled you." for 200 pages. Anyway, gotta say that ComStar pulling 72 regiments "out of thin air" was something they laid the groundwork for just like the Jihad, except without any subtlety because the hints were in a Stackpole book. The ComStar book goes over the massive equipment stockpiles ComStar built up over the years, and how they built the Com Guard in secrecy over like a century. The Warrior trilogy also has Dan Allard on Terra sneaking away from the tour group and finding one of ComStar's many giant-rear end stockpiles of Mechs that are way too many to count, and at the end Myndo Waterly babbles on about the entire plan of pretending they are slowly bringing the Com Guard online when actually they're doing the same thing everyone always does when they want to pretend they have a way smaller army than they do: disguise like four or five units as the same regiment and never have them on active duty at the same time so that nobody can get a solid count on how many there are and figure out the discrepancy. It's basically the oldest plan in the book at this point: the Kuritas did it to circumvent Star League laws on army size, WoB did it to confuse everyone's intelligence reports, and Liao did it to get the Republic garrisons to pare down.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:43
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It's even happening in the Dark Age. A third of the Federated Suns military melted into the scenery at Palmyra.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:01
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