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I'm pretty sure I do remember the Word Bearers being fairly dark complexioned. But maybe I'm misremembering and it was only Cyrene?
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Jul 16, 2014 14:23
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Angry Lobster posted:In the Scars book it's said that for some awkward reason the majority of recruits from Terra sent to the White Scars were drawn from asian populations, then the author takes the chance to make fun of them. How does he make fun of them? The Scars use jet bikes in pretty much everything they do, so is there an Asians are bad at driving joke in there?
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Jul 16, 2014 15:09
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DirtyRobot posted:I'm pretty sure I do remember the Word Bearers being fairly dark complexioned. But maybe I'm misremembering and it was only Cyrene? I'm currently re-reading The First Heretic, and while Cyrene is confirmed to be dark-skinned, nothing is explicitly stated about the Word Bearers' skin tones. That said, they come from a desert planet with a relatively primitive civilization littered with the ruins of an advanced civilization that the natives now consciously avoid. Colchis is noted to be a profoundly introverted, even backwards-looking world united by religion that actively avoids contributing to the Great Crusade.
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Jul 16, 2014 15:13
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DirtyRobot posted:I'm pretty sure I do remember the Word Bearers being fairly dark complexioned. But maybe I'm misremembering and it was only Cyrene? Cyrene is definitely what we would call Muddle Eastern, ADB talked about in on his blog. I'd have to check on the Word Bearers as a whole though, I always thought they were like Nordic levels of pale. Her city was on a different planet from Colchis
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Jul 16, 2014 15:15
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vigorous sodomy posted:How does he make fun of them? The Scars use jet bikes in pretty much everything they do, so is there an Asians are bad at driving joke in there? No, the Terran recruit complains about how the point of Unification was that the old ideas of race and region were to be washed away in the new future, but here they are sorting the recruits into race specific legions and how idiotic it is. It plays into the larger plot where the terrans feel isolated from the rest of the legion and think the Imperium is failing to live to its ideals and want to throw in with Horus
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Jul 16, 2014 15:19
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Fried Chicken posted:I'd have to check, but were Word Bearer's ever said to be "swarthy"? I know Cyerene is what would be Middle Eastern, but I'm pretty sure the Word Bearers are some pale rear end whiteboys. It is how they are shown on all the painted models (Lorgar, Erebus, Kor Phareon) and its the only way their gold tattoos would show up. I always thought the legions during the Heresy were a mix of races with even races like the Salamanders not being purely back due to the marines who originated from Terra. The Word Bearers always struck me as Middle Eastern though since they were highly religious fanatics from a desert world.
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Jul 16, 2014 15:47
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Kegslayer posted:I always thought the legions during the Heresy were a mix of races with even races like the Salamanders not being purely back due to the marines who originated from Terra. The Word Bearers always struck me as Middle Eastern though since they were highly religious fanatics from a desert world. I kind of like them better as True Detective-style 'billies. Edit: their names are really fun to drawl, too
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Jul 16, 2014 16:04
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I always got the impression that the change in Salamander fluff to them being coal black skinned devils with hearts of gold was a nod to, and some kind of repenting, for their lovely sterotyping previously.
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Jul 16, 2014 16:05
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Sulecrist posted:I kind of like them better as True Detective-style 'billies. Yep, ok, this is how they are in my mind now. That fits too well to be anything otherwise
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Jul 16, 2014 17:02
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Fried Chicken posted:Yep, ok, this is how they are in my mind now. That fits too well to be anything otherwise They are the Bearers of the Word. That word: 'MURRICA.
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Jul 16, 2014 19:27
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Be honest with me, gentle goons: will I miss anything if I skip book 2 in the Gaunt series (Ghost Maker, I think its called?)? I didn't mind the first book at all, but the second seems too short story-ish for my tastes. I heard that the third book and up are amazing, so I'm excited to get into the good stuff!
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Jul 16, 2014 20:02
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Hot Dog Day #82 posted:Be honest with me, gentle goons: will I miss anything if I skip book 2 in the Gaunt series (Ghost Maker, I think its called?)? I didn't mind the first book at all, but the second seems too short story-ish for my tastes. I heard that the third book and up are amazing, so I'm excited to get into the good stuff! Skip it. It's got some fun stories, but you can read them later.
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Jul 16, 2014 20:21
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^^Pretty much that, get to the good stuff then come back and enjoy the short stories
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Jul 16, 2014 20:44
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Goddamn is vengeful spirit a chore to read. McNeil should consider not writing so many characters into his books. Especial if they aren't really that developed. I'm up to the point where the siege of Lupercalia is under way and i cant help but not care at all about all of it. I did like some parts with Loken tough so its not all bad. I think I'm gonna drop it and come back to it later.
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Jul 16, 2014 23:43
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I've just about run out of Dan Abnett and ADB stuff. I haven't read any 40k stuff by anyone but them in 5+ years (except Fulgrim for some reason). Can anyone recommend excellent Black Library books by other authors? (I've already read Shadow Point, Execution Hour, Fire Warrior, Lord of the Night, the Shira Calpurnia books, the Inquisition War trilogy, that first HH trilogy, and a couple of the Cain books.)
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Jul 17, 2014 02:00
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If you've only read the first HH trilogy, look into the ADB/DA trilogy of The First Heretic, Know No Fear, and Betrayer. Abnett's other HH books, Legion and Prospero Burns, are generally agreed to be good (personally, I find Legion tedious and dull). Unremembered Empire, while by Abnett, is tasked with wrapping up a lot of plot threads, many of which aren't very interesting, and can be safely avoided. Storm of Iron is another good one, the first and best Graham McNeil book - his other books range from average to bad for most readers.
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Jul 17, 2014 02:38
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Sorry, let me clarify. I've read almost everything by ADB and Dan Abnett for both 40k and HH (there are one or two things left but they're either short stories or sold out on Amazon). I thought Storm of Iron was okay but I haven't been impressed by anything else of McNeil's I've read. I recall some people in here recommending Chris Wraight. I haven't read anything by him, is he okay? EDIT: I actually liked Legion and Unremembered Empire although I wasn't blown away by either one. I'd heard a lot of negative stuff about the latter before reading it so I think my expectations were just really low. EDIT AGAIN: Actually, someone recommended Priests of Mars (by McNeil I think). I wanted to get a second opinion since I've had a rocky time with ol' Graham. Anyone have any good things to say about it? Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 03:03 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 02:58
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Lexicanum lists The Emperor as a perpetual. If he's a perpetual then is it ever explained why he didn't just regenerate his wounds after his battle with Horus on the Vengeful Spirit at the Siege of Terra?
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Jul 17, 2014 03:09
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AndyElusive posted:Lexicanum lists The Emperor as a perpetual. If he's a perpetual then is it ever explained why he didn't just regenerate his wounds after his battle with Horus on the Vengeful Spirit at the Siege of Terra? we are 5 years out (in universe time) from that happening, so no
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Jul 17, 2014 03:11
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Sulecrist posted:EDIT AGAIN: Actually, someone recommended Priests of Mars (by McNeil I think). I wanted to get a second opinion since I've had a rocky time with ol' Graham. Anyone have any good things to say about it? Since I reccomended it, I'll go ahead and say there are HUGE differences in quality between the two. McNiell, ironically, does his most human characters when he works with the half-robot people.
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Jul 17, 2014 05:04
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Has Games Workshop/The Black Library ever given a timetable on when we might actually see the Siege of Terra and the Horus v. Emperor showdown? I haven't kept up with these things in a while (other than Abnett books), but I've got a dopey brother who insists on collecting every Horus Heresy novel, regardless of authorship or anticipated quality, and he's been wondering how much longer he'll be spending money on it. PupsOfWar fucked around with this message at 07:16 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 05:35
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I could easily see BL spending years and dozens more novels before we even approach the siege of terra. Your friend is gonna be buying a lot of books.
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Jul 17, 2014 09:35
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AndyElusive posted:Lexicanum lists The Emperor as a perpetual. If he's a perpetual then is it ever explained why he didn't just regenerate his wounds after his battle with Horus on the Vengeful Spirit at the Siege of Terra? Doesn't perpetual just mean that they come back from the dead, rather than actively regenerating wounds? The thing with the Emperor and the Golden Throne is that they could just unplug it and let him die, and ok, maybe he'd be reborn. Or maybe he'd just die and never come back, and the Imperium would collapse into flames. Or maybe he'd come back, look at the mess that had been made of his grand project and purge everyone.
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Jul 17, 2014 11:01
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PupsOfWar posted:I haven't kept up with these things in a while (other than Abnett books), but I've got a dopey brother who insists on collecting every Horus Heresy novel, regardless of authorship or anticipated quality, and he's been wondering how much longer he'll be spending money on it. I was this guy up until Nemesis. Does your brother actually enjoy all the books, or is he reading them and saying "Well that was a load of poo poo....when is the next one out?"
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Jul 17, 2014 11:04
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Sulecrist posted:I've just about run out of Dan Abnett and ADB stuff. I haven't read any 40k stuff by anyone but them in 5+ years (except Fulgrim for some reason). Can anyone recommend excellent Black Library books by other authors? Yes, Priests of Mars is a good book, as is the recommended Storm of Iron. The Cain books are alright, if you don't mind some humor injected into your grimdark. The only problem with the series is that it can get repetitive - "I'm a coward!" (Does something heroic.) "Jurgen smells bad!" Lord of the Night is a good non-ADB Night Lords book. I thought it started a bit slow, but it ended with me wanting a sequel. Fifteen Hours is a decent book if you want to learn about the clusterfuck and bureaucracy of the Imperium and the Guard. The old Space Wolf books by Bill King are alright - kind of pulpy and outdated, but entertaining and light. Battle of the Fang has been recommended in this thread, though I haven't gotten around to it yet (Space Wolves are not my favorite chapter.) Atlas Infernal is a pretty good Inquisitor novel. Rob Sanders seems to be well liked here. Legion of the Damned (also Rob Sanders) is well liked here as well, though I found it to be really slow and lacking in LotD until the last third of the book. Personally, it would have been better suited as a short story. Dead Men Walking is a decent DKoK story about a Necron incursion. The problem with DKoK is that they are faceless and characterless, so most of the story revolves around the periphery of the DKoK. Still an ok book. If you can get your hands on them, the Imperial Armour and Horus Heresy sourcebooks from Forge World are excellent just for the fluff alone. Bear in mind that they are terribly expensive though, and I can't truthfully say that the material justifies the cost (though the HH books come real close.) The problem is that, outside of ADB and Abnett, there are no excellent BL books. The rest range, for the most part, from "good" to "absolutely terrible." berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 13:56 on Jul 17, 2014 |
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Jul 17, 2014 13:53
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Kharn_The_Betrayer posted:Goddamn is vengeful spirit a chore to read. McNeil should consider not writing Fixed that for you. Also, re: non-ADB/Abnett recommendations, I enjoyed Fire Caste by Peter Fehervari -- definitely a first novel but pretty decent regardless. The Iron Hands book by Chris Wraight was ok, though it's pretty much bolte rporn and I'm not a huge fan of his other books.
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Jul 17, 2014 14:13
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Laughing Zealot posted:Skip it. Oh! Well that is good, I'd stalled out on Gaunt early on in Ghost Maker because I wanted something more like First & Only. If it's skippable then I'll go right to Necropolis, which is supposed to be one of the best ones, yes?
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Jul 17, 2014 14:16
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Sulecrist posted:I've just about run out of Dan Abnett and ADB stuff. I haven't read any 40k stuff by anyone but them in 5+ years (except Fulgrim for some reason). Can anyone recommend excellent Black Library books by other authors? In addition to bezerkmonkey's list, which contained a lot of what I was going to recommend (especially the Rob Sanders books), I also think the two Macharian Crusade books - Angel of Fire and Fist of Demetrius - are fun reads. Also, although it doesn't get much love here , I really liked the Dark Eldar trilogy by Andy Chambers and it's probably the best WH40k writing yet done from an alien perspective. Two other suggestions: the original Space Marine novel by Ian Watson is great just for showing how different and crazy the setting used to be, and the new Yarrick book by David Annandale (which isn't quite as good as the Cain series, but it's close.)
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Jul 17, 2014 16:06
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Wax Dynasty posted:...the new Yarrick book by David Annandale (which isn't quite as good as the Cain series, but it's close.)
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Jul 17, 2014 16:11
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berzerkmonkey posted:I forgot this one - good call. I didn't recommend the Macharius books because I haven't read them, and the only thing I've heard about them is "pretty generic, with Macharius' name tossed in for no particular reason." The series is on my radar though. I need to start reading before bed again - my "to read" list is getting way too long... I have read all the Macharius books (there's three). In my opinion they are pretty bad and a real waste of a potentially cool concept. The prose quality is bearable but pretty much everythign else is bland and disappointing. I have also read the recent Dark Eldar POV, Eldar POV, and Ork POV books. They are all bad, especially the Ork one, and I understand why GW had their 'no alien povs' rule for a long time - authors are forced to (or choose to out of laziness) compromise and just make them like people with accents and vague fantasy cultures instead of truly alien beings with alien motivations and psyches.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:17
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Yeah, I started reading the free excerpt from that Ork book that Guy Haley wrote and it's absolutely awful. quote:From a dozen brawling orkish domains, the Red Waaagh! gathered: a billion orks pulled in the wake of the rust-ships of Warlord Grukk. It's just so awkwardly written, I couldn't get past page 3. it's kind of surprising since I've heard Baneblade (his first novel I think) was pretty good.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:32
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Wax Dynasty posted:Yarrick book by David Annandale (which isn't quite as good as the Cain series, but it's close.) Wait, is this actually good? I've only read Death of Antagonis by him and it was hot garbage. Probably the worst 40k book I've read. I haven't bothered checking out anything else.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:34
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SRM posted:Yeah, I started reading the free excerpt from that Ork book that Guy Haley wrote and it's absolutely awful. Safety Factor posted:Wait, is this actually good? I've only read Death of Antagonis by him and it was hot garbage. Probably the worst 40k book I've read. I haven't bothered checking out anything else.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:40
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Safety Factor posted:Wait, is this actually good? I've only read Death of Antagonis by him and it was hot garbage. Probably the worst 40k book I've read. I haven't bothered checking out anything else. It was alright, in my opinion. Not amazing but readable, though obviously the Yarrick bit is tacked on and it's more just 'generic junior commissar'. And ha, I've read that ork book and it only gets worse.
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Jul 17, 2014 16:41
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SRM posted:Yeah, I started reading the free excerpt from that Ork book that Guy Haley wrote and it's absolutely awful. I enjoy this passage because he's so clearly trying to emulate both Abnett and Dembski-Bowden, but failing miserably. "Look, guys, I've got all these hyphens! That's good, right? Abnett uses lots of hyphens,"
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Jul 17, 2014 17:16
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Helicon One posted:Doesn't perpetual just mean that they come back from the dead, rather than actively regenerating wounds? The thing with the Emperor and the Golden Throne is that they could just unplug it and let him die, and ok, maybe he'd be reborn. the thing is magnus punched through the emperors webway and the only thing keeping a new eye of terror from forming on terra is the emperors psychic power keeping the gates sealed. So you can unplug him, and he can be reborn, but than you've got every daemon and chaos marine in the immaterium bustin through the gates slaughtering everyone on terra, and decapitating the imperium. unless hes reborn like, right there, and sits his rear end immedatily back onto the golden throne, everyones kind of out of luck. Plus, how does the reincarnation process work? If he goes back into the warp and than has to reinhabit a body, I think the chaos gods would attempt to get involved in some dickery and prevent/delay that as well
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Jul 17, 2014 17:36
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AndyElusive posted:Lexicanum lists The Emperor as a perpetual. If he's a perpetual then is it ever explained why he didn't just regenerate his wounds after his battle with Horus on the Vengeful Spirit at the Siege of Terra? Something about how the instant the emperor lets himself die, the moment he stops consciously being the astronomicon and conscientiously fighting chaos, then all of the warp will flood through the emps Magnus-ruined webway project and consume terra in moments.
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Jul 17, 2014 17:38
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Helicon One posted:Doesn't perpetual just mean that they come back from the dead, rather than actively regenerating wounds? The thing with the Emperor and the Golden Throne is that they could just unplug it and let him die, and ok, maybe he'd be reborn. Yeah, that's the grimness of the Emperor's situation - he can't be allowed to die or mankind will fall. Not to mention all the factions who have it in their interest to keep him on the throne and the status quo. From earlier in the thread Dog_Meat posted:That's one of the many problems.
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Jul 17, 2014 19:43
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The whole Perpetuals thing is such a weird literary dead-end. It sort of worries me that ADB is buying into it in Betrayer. Maybe he drank from Kyme's coffee cup at BL central
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Jul 17, 2014 20:14
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Sephyr posted:The whole Perpetuals thing is such a weird literary dead-end. It sort of worries me that ADB is buying into it in Betrayer. Maybe he drank from Kyme's coffee cup at BL central Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Abnett first wrote about the Perpetuals. Also, I don't get the hate - what about the idea of the Perpetuals breaks the 40K universe, which contains genetically enhanced super soldiers with the minds of prepubescent boys, violent giant fungus monsters, space elves, and daemons?
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Jul 17, 2014 20:22
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