|
Vagon posted:Tremere are interesting as hell to me. It's odd that the Camerilla would want/accept them despite all of their shady dealings and general secrecy. They seem to effectively be an organization within an organization, which doesn't play to all of the Camerilla's rules and blatantly puts their own rules first. Is there really an explanation as to why the Cam puts up with all of it or let them in/asked them to join in the first place? All of the blood sorcery makes them sound like they would be a better fit for the Sabbat. It's precisely because the Tremere have access to blood magic that they're put up with - the Sabbat have their own versions of it (whether the Fiend's version, or Necromancy, or what have you), as do most of the Independent clans. The Camarilla put up with them because they 1) filled a niche that they didn't have and 2) put a Curse on the entire Assamite clan to keep them in check. Which lasted up until one of the eldest Assamites woke up, went "WTF is this poo poo?", and shattered it. In that time-line, a goodly portion of the Assamite sorcerers have actually gone over to the Tower and are scaring the Tremere shitless, because 1) Assamites HATE Tremere and 2) the Assamites have broken their stranglehold on blood magic in the Tower.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2014 21:44
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:15 |
|
|
Vagon posted:Tremere are interesting as hell to me. It's odd that the Camerilla would want/accept them despite all of their shady dealings and general secrecy. They seem to effectively be an organization within an organization, which doesn't play to all of the Camerilla's rules and blatantly puts their own rules first. Is there really an explanation as to why the Cam puts up with all of it or let them in/asked them to join in the first place? All of the blood sorcery makes them sound like they would be a better fit for the Sabbat. Better to have them inside pissing out than outside pissing in.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2014 22:07
|
|
|
And they sort of majorly pissed off Tzimisce at their creation, after they drained a Methuselah of clan in question. Saulot isn't that relevant, since only 7 remain in modern times - libel campaign and all that within Camarilla. So they probably buddied-up with Camarilla to have meatshields and security in case Fiends ever decided to pay back, in addition to providing that magic niche.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2014 22:33
|
|
|
GuyUpNorth posted:And they sort of majorly pissed off Tzimisce at their creation, after they drained a Methuselah of clan in question. Saulot isn't that relevant, since only 7 remain in modern times - libel campaign and all that within Camarilla. Yeah the fact is that for the Tremere, it's Camarilla or nothing. Out of the deal, the Camarilla get access to the poo poo the Tremere can do and hey, it's not like they were on good terms with the Tzimisce beforehand.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 01:08
|
|
|
citybeatnik posted:Which lasted up until one of the eldest Assamites woke up, went "WTF is this poo poo?", and shattered it. That elder's name is ur-Shulgi, and he's loving hilarious. He wakes up after 1800 years in torpor royally pissed off by the state of the Assamites. His first act is to break the Tremere Curse like it was nothing, his second act was to flat-out murder any and every schismatic Assamite in the world, and his third was to go, "What's with this Islam poo poo?" and force everyone back onto the Path of Blood on pain of death. The result was to change the flavor of the Assamite Clan from a group of Scary Arab Assassin Stereotypes into a tighter group of fanatical diabolist assassins all utterly dedicated to bringing about the return of their clan founder and doing his will.
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 01:45
|
|
|
The "better on the inside" philosophy is pretty much the Camarilla in a nutshell. There is a reason for them to include the insane Malks, the hideous, painfully well-informed Nosferatu and the blodmages Tremere. The same reason they aim to include everyone, whether they want to or not. They can be useful and, more than they could be if they weren't Camarilla, they can be controlled.
Thesaya fucked around with this message at 07:54 on Jul 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2014 07:52
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:That elder's name is ur-Shulgi, and he's loving hilarious. He wakes up after 1800 years in torpor royally pissed off by the state of the Assamites. His first act is to break the Tremere Curse like it was nothing, his second act was to flat-out murder any and every schismatic Assamite in the world, and his third was to go, "What's with this Islam poo poo?" and force everyone back onto the Path of Blood on pain of death. Yeah, it doesn't hurt that ur-Shulgi is about 4000-6000 years old and was a blood mage since probably his mortal days (which makes him about 2-3x as old and experienced as the original Tremere mages). And IIRC he was child or teen when he was embraced, so his description is basically "a darker-than-black small child that has just killed you for looking at him." The Assamites were clustered into three camps. The Sorcerers were the group of them that did blood magic (as opposed to the combat-monkey assassin bit) and they were calling the shots in the clan as an organization until Shulgi awoke. Mostly out of fear of him--but also partly because they didn't want submit to power--they grabbed what grimoires and notes they could and fled West to the Camarilla strongholds, taking with them whatever Assamites that also didn't want to submit to ur-Shulgi and his decidedly "you're either with me or a bloodstain on the wall" outlook on unlife. This group was to replace the Gangrel in the Cam after they largely struck out on their own, though that period didn't last too long before Gehenna. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 17:15 on Jul 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 16, 2014 17:08
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:This group was to replace the Gangrel in the Cam after they largely struck out on their own, though that period didn't last too long before Gehenna. Plus Hassam didn't really like that idea. In at least one major city, he swept through the assembled kindred as a bloody sirocco and killed anyone in favor of recognizing the Assamites as a part of the Camarilla just before the official vote.
|
|
#
?
Jul 17, 2014 00:54
|
|
|
Edit: I was a giant Dick, ignore this post
JackNapier fucked around with this message at 05:15 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 01:57
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:Good Goon Sirs! The thread died while I was on vacation, or so it seems, so, I'll revive it, Goon Sirs! Somebody tell me about the vampire clans that make up The Sabbat please Okay seriously dude. You are the tryhardiest tryhard and it is adorable, but knock off this goon sir poo poo and learn not to post every thirty seconds. It is okay to let a thread lie fallow for a day. Edit: I guess what I am trying to say is, even if you regged specifically for this LP, you need to look at (read: lurk) the rest of the forums too and post less unless you're actually saying something.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 02:35
|
|
|
Remora posted:Edit: I guess what I am trying to say is, even if you regged specifically for this LP, you need to look at (read: lurk) the rest of the forums too and post less unless you're actually saying something. I have been in the other threads, and I guess I am kind of hanging on this thread, but that's mainly because White Wolf interests the gently caress out of me, I don't know of anybody in like a forty mile radius of the little poo poo hole I live in that ever had any of the books, so I'm trying to get as much of the info on it that I can, I'm in love with this thread because honestly, every question I've asked, somebody has answered. If I seem a little try hardy, well, I guess I am, I'm a sucker for information, and I'm getting a poo poo ton of it here on stuff that I always wanted to do, and a lot of info on backstory in the game I was curious on the few times I played it, I've posted in a couple of the other forums, mainly because I had some stuff to contribute, but not much else. JackNapier fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 02:41
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:I have been in the other threads, and I guess I am kind of hanging on this thread, but that's mainly because White Wolf interests the gently caress out of me, I don't know of anybody in like a forty mile radius of the little poo poo hole I live in that ever had any of the books, so I'm trying to get as much of the info on it that I can, I'm in love with this thread because honestly, every question I've asked, somebody has answered. If I seem a little try hardy, well, I guess I am, I'm a sucker for information, and I'm getting a poo poo ton of it here on stuff that I always wanted to do, and a lot of info on backstory in the game I was curious on the few times I played it, I've posted in a couple of the other forums, mainly because I had some stuff to contribute, but not much else. You're in a thread with some borderline  lore masters of WW stuff through either extensive study, knowing the devs, or both. Just simply ask the question and be polite and you'll have sourcebooks worth of infodumping to swim in--no need for tryhard fishing.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 03:29
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:I have been in the other threads, and I guess I am kind of hanging on this thread, but that's mainly because White Wolf interests the gently caress out of me, I don't know of anybody in like a forty mile radius of the little poo poo hole I live in that ever had any of the books, so I'm trying to get as much of the info on it that I can, I'm in love with this thread because honestly, every question I've asked, somebody has answered. If I seem a little try hardy, well, I guess I am, I'm a sucker for information, and I'm getting a poo poo ton of it here on stuff that I always wanted to do, and a lot of info on backstory in the game I was curious on the few times I played it, I've posted in a couple of the other forums, mainly because I had some stuff to contribute, but not much else. If it helps, bud, you can buy a lot of the old stuff here: http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/browse.php?manufacturers_id=1
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 03:36
|
|
|
Yeah it's basically just your tone. Also we generally don't actually say "goon sir". Maybe if somebody's being a jerk in one of the forums where being a jerk is okay and everybody just is a jerk to each other and it's all a good time, we use it ironically. But not seriously. Ask your questions, just... phrase them like a normal person asking a question, y'know?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 03:39
|
|
|
Alright, Um, somebody tell me the mechanics behind a good Malkavian, the more Batshit lore that accompanies it the better
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:Alright, Um, somebody tell me the mechanics behind a good Malkavian, the more Batshit lore that accompanies it the better Malks are all insane as their bloodline curse. Often they were even before the Embrace--which then would either reinforce that illness or inflict further trauma to their minds. Insanity is very poorly handled in pop culture but if you come face-to-face with it, it can be disturbing, tragic, scary, frustrating, or any combination thereof. Some are only "lightly touched" or have a compulsion or other tic that is easily hidden and you'd never know. Others are nearly incoherent and unable to function outside of primal needs (the Beast will see to feeding eventually). There is no "Good" malkavian outside of one who stays within their derangement and character concept. The Madness Network (the mind of Malkov himself spread throughout his childer) can provide some insight/GM help to your chronicle, but its generally a random and capricious thing--and often the help it offers is incomprehensible until well after the fact (if then). Above all else, it's important to understand the limits of the character and their illness: reading the appropriate section in the DSV V wouldn't be a bad idea. A "Good Malk" is probably more tightly defined by a character that is just broken enough that you're able to still play him/her. Full on gibbering maniacs tend to have short shelf lives and don't generally play well with others. Its easier to define a "bad malk"--one who thinks insanity is a slapstick comedy routine, a get-out-of-decorum free card, or one who seeks attention/disruption for its own sake. There are definitely "trickster malk" concepts out there, but there's playing that role and then there's trying to derail the game. The former can be frustrating but fun; the latter is just damned annoying and will not have you asked to come back. There's a reason many groups restrict Malk characters and Tremere except to known mature/trusted players. They both can break the game, but for very different reasons. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Jul 18, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:21
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:The Madness Network (the mind of Malkov himself spread throughout his childer) can provide some insight/GM help to your chronicle, but its generally a random and capricious thing--and often the help it offers is incomprehensible until well after the fact (if then) How does that translate into the Table Top game, like, what would a insight/GM give you from the network, and is it just kind of a jumbled mess of things and information, or is it specific things from the GM?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:31
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:How does that translate into the Table Top game, like, what would a insight/GM give you from the network, and is it just kind of a jumbled mess of things and information, or is it specific things from the GM? GM fiat. You can try to actively query the MMN (generally limited per session/story), but the answers are not guaranteed to be that you seek. The GM is ultimately responsible for the exact content of what you get (if anything) and can tailor that to fit their narrative. It can be names, addresses, pictures, pure intuition, emotions, colors, patterns...anything. Google it's not.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:36
|
|
|
I thought I said this, but I hosed up and didn't, so my bad: If you love learning about this stuff then instead of asking endless questions, try just cannonballing the 245 pages already written on the subject of all things WoD. You're obviously enthusiastic enough about the material. You probably don't have search, but ctrl+F is free (repetitive and more time-consuming, but it's how I used to cope). If after that there are still more questions, sure, go nuts, you've earned it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
OAquinas posted:GM fiat. You can try to actively query the MMN (generally limited per session/story), but the answers are not guaranteed to be that you seek. The GM is ultimately responsible for the exact content of what you get (if anything) and can tailor that to fit their narrative. It can be names, addresses, pictures, pure intuition, emotions, colors, patterns...anything. So it's kind of like Bing? Where you ask for something, and it gives you an interactive map of Peru?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:03
|
|
|
The DSV V thing only really works for "modern" malkavians, which they talk about in the clan book i think. Anatole's derangement was a manic religious ferver that loses a little if you just go "mania and megalomania" i feel. And then you get to the stuff like sanguine animism.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:08
|
|
|
I've heard the term before, what's a "Fish Malk"
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:17
|
|
|
 fish fish fish I'm krazy
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:26
|
|
|
Rockopolis posted:
Alright, makes sense, Is there a sort of, normal derangement the Malkavian's seem to favor or gravitate to? Like Bipolar, or Schizophrenia?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:29
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:I've heard the term before, what's a "Fish Malk" I asked that way back when this was just beginning. Its the World of Darkness equivalent to a "Chaotic Neutral Bard". The "I'm going to be as disruptive and attention whoring as possible under the flimsy pretext of roleplaying" type. Where, exactly, fish comes into it I do not know.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:31
|
|
|
Arcade Rabbit posted:I asked that way back when this was just beginning. Its the World of Darkness equivalent to a "Chaotic Neutral Bard". The "I'm going to be as disruptive and attention whoring as possible under the flimsy pretext of roleplaying" type. Where, exactly, fish comes into it I do not know. The fish part comes from an image that's been posted a few times in the thread as well:  JackNapier posted:Alright, makes sense, Is there a sort of, normal derangement the Malkavian's seem to favor or gravitate to? Like Bipolar, or Schizophrenia? There's no real "typical" Malkavian derangement, unless you mean what players gravitate to. In which case I don't know, to be honest. Fishmalks are probably some sort of schizophrenia or something along the lines of multiple personalities. I think I had a player once who wanted to make a ton of different character sheets for all the different personalities his Malkavian would have had. I rejected that in a flash.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:41
|
|
|
JackNapier posted:Alright, makes sense, Is there a sort of, normal derangement the Malkavian's seem to favor or gravitate to? Like Bipolar, or Schizophrenia? The way that Malk derangements work aren't easily categorized like they are in humans. For one, Malks aren't human. For two, they've got their founder's mind floating around out there somewhere in the ether influencing them in unpredictable ways. That said, agelessness and the supernatural can combine to make for some interesting characters. One that comes to mind is Dr. Netchurch who spent his entire existence trying to fit the vampiric condition into existing scientific theories. The fact that it was patently impossible didn't bother him, he just calmly went about trying to explain how a 180 pound vampire turning himself and everything on his person into an 8 pound flying fox by expending accumulated human blood was totally explicable by modern science. A very interesting, mostly rational character who also happens to be completely bonkers.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 05:55
|
|
|
Zeroisanumber posted:That said, agelessness and the supernatural can combine to make for some interesting characters. One that comes to mind is Dr. Netchurch who spent his entire existence trying to fit the vampiric condition into existing scientific theories. The fact that it was patently impossible didn't bother him, he just calmly went about trying to explain how a 180 pound vampire turning himself and everything on his person into an 8 pound flying fox by expending accumulated human blood was totally explicable by modern science. A very interesting, mostly rational character who also happens to be completely bonkers. Netchurch was able to catalog the "Vitae Efficiency Unit" though. Yes, he broke the 4th wall and discovered Blood Points  There's also a short bit of fluff where he got a human child, raised her to a certain age without ever letting her see or hear any mention of wolves. Then he called in a huge favor to get a Gangrel associate of his to embrace the girl and teach her Protean to the point where she could shift into animal form. Surprisingly, she transformed into a wolf, a creature that, to her, did not exist. Netchurch's particular brand of insanity is OCD, categorizing and cataloging vampire physiology. He's a brilliant mind, and also one of the most lucid Malkavians on the planet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:15
|
|
|
Was it Vicissitude in this thread who was talking about some Malkavian or another who rose to fame as a tactical planner for the Black Hand, because he was so obsessive-compulsive that he thought of everything?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 06:42
|
|
|
Malks are in the Camarilla for a reason - nuts or not, they're drat useful for their insight, and sometimes there's the perfect storm of their madness bolstering instead of inhibiting them. Malkavians have three native Disciplines - Auspex, Dementation, and Obfuscate. Auspex starts at supernaturally acute senses but at higher levels it is basically every TV psychic, reading auras of people and items to pluck insight out of nowhere, and mastery of it allows mind-reading and astral projection. Dementation, while fluffed as purely offensive in the game, does let a Malk pull hard data out of seemingly random patterns at level 3, and improving it increases their ability to tap into the Madness Network. And Obfuscate, of course, lets a Malk turn invisible or change their appearance at will. All this adds up to a suite of information-gathering abilities that would make an AWACS plane green with envy, and means if a given Malkavian is lucid and trusted enough to communicate with the movers and shakers freely, they can easily dethrone the local Nosferatu as masters of information. Though, of course, lucidity and trustworthiness is very rare among Malks.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 08:31
|
|
|
Tehan posted:Malks are in the Camarilla for a reason - nuts or not, they're drat useful for their insight, and sometimes there's the perfect storm of their madness bolstering instead of inhibiting them. That's the Calling. It's an ability that the clan's Elders have once they've really started to master demenation. And since some Malkavian Methuselah can actually see the future, it's an incredibly dangerous tool. It's not well publicized, but the leaders of the Camarilla know the Malks are responsible for stopping about a dozen or so End the Camarilla level threats before they could actually become a problem.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 15:20
|
|
|
Wanderer posted:Was it Vicissitude in this thread who was talking about some Malkavian or another who rose to fame as a tactical planner for the Black Hand, because he was so obsessive-compulsive that he thought of everything? Yes. He wasn't just a tactical planner, he was a shakar, a "remover". Basically he was an assassin who hit high-level targets in other sects and factions. Yes, his plans were often overcomplicated, but he thought of every contingency. He'd write down each one in separate color-coded inks. Annoying as it was, they always went off without a hitch. His body count was rapidly approaching that of experienced Assamite operatives who'd been doing the job for a century longer than he had.
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:03
|
|
|
Stroth posted:That's the Calling. Can you explain how that works? It seems like it would be really drat useful to just be able to direct an entire city or continent of batshit insane vampires to a place. Any big examples of how it's been used?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
Vicissitude posted:Netchurch was able to catalog the "Vitae Efficiency Unit" though. Yes, he broke the 4th wall and discovered Blood Points You know that's actually a really interesting (and goofy) experiment. It's always heartening to see competently written examples of Malkavians when most player examples are Well Not. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
Vicissitude posted:Yes. He wasn't just a tactical planner, he was a shakar, a "remover". Basically he was an assassin who hit high-level targets in other sects and factions. Yes, his plans were often overcomplicated, but he thought of every contingency. He'd write down each one in separate color-coded inks. Annoying as it was, they always went off without a hitch. His body count was rapidly approaching that of experienced Assamite operatives who'd been doing the job for a century longer than he had. ... so Batman?
|
|
#
?
Jul 18, 2014 19:40
|
|
|
double nine posted:... so Batman? Who can ACTUALLY turn invisible and read your mind.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 01:32
|
|
|
Kavingi posted:The fish part comes from an image that's been posted a few times in the thread as well: What might be a more fun way to accomplish this is to get two or three of the players to be Malks and have them agree to switch characters on GM fiat causing the characters to act differently. Sounds like a fun experiment to try out, anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 02:47
|
|
|
Shugojin posted:What might be a more fun way to accomplish this is to get two or three of the players to be Malks and have them agree to switch characters on GM fiat causing the characters to act differently. I'd totally be down with that, actually.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 06:40
|
|
|
Shugojin posted:What might be a more fun way to accomplish this is to get two or three of the players to be Malks and have them agree to switch characters on GM fiat causing the characters to act differently. That makes me think of a goofy little game called Everyone Is John, except probably handled a little more seriously. On the other hand, Malkavians, so probably not that much more serious after all.
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 07:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 21:15 |
|
|
Are we still talking about mages? If so, can anyone tell me about the Nephandi? Are they just generic mage-flavored demon worshipper bad guys, or is there something deeper to them like in the case of the Technocracy?
|
|
#
?
Jul 19, 2014 21:18
|
|