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STAC Goat posted:It runs between the Wednesday and Thursday shows. Ah ok. I skip the Wednesday show a lot so I wasn't catching that.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:01
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Here's my recap of the RHAP live recap: pretty boring.
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Jul 18, 2014 03:59
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blue squares posted:Here's my recap of the RHAP live recap: pretty boring.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:07
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STAC Goat posted:So I guess they're skipping Have Nots this week because it would be unfair to base Have Nots on the tracker if the current Have Nots are likely to be the ones with the least energy. Also, Jocasta was just violently ill and stuck in bed for days.
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Jul 18, 2014 04:48
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Did Amber jump on Caleb for a hug after Devin got evicted? I was told this happened but don't necessarily believe it.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:10
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Yeah, she did.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:21
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So is she just galactively stupid or is she being kind of an rear end in a top hat? Caleb is creepy and dumb but the constant little shots of Amber touching him for no reason and hugging him, etc are not painting a very good picture of her either. If you do not like a a person and they are being really persistent in their advances then you tend to keep your distance and not do anything that could be construed as flirty. Don't really care if she "is just that way with everyone." The guy is obsessed with you and is making you a bit uncomfortable so stop being that way with him. Super simple stuff.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:34
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She likes him fine as a person and has no idea how obsessed he is. All she knows is that he's a fairly sweet guy who has a massive crush on her. In a moment of happiness and relief she hugged a friend. If he takes that as more than it is that's on him because he takes everything the wrong way. But she doesn't know this. She doesn't know that he runs around twisting everything she says into declarations of love. Let's please not blame the victim.
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Jul 18, 2014 05:46
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STAC Goat posted:She likes him fine as a person and has no idea how obsessed he is. All she knows is that he's a fairly sweet guy who has a massive crush on her. In a moment of happiness and relief she hugged a friend. If he takes that as more than it is that's on him because he takes everything the wrong way. But she doesn't know this. She doesn't know that he runs around twisting everything she says into declarations of love. Her DRs led me to believe she has some kind of handle on the fact that he likes her a lot and feels a bit entitled to her reciprocation. Perhaps this is just in how they are edited though. If she doesn't have any idea (because the house and the producers are dicks and not telling her since they sure as poo poo know about his obsession) then sure, she is innocent, but if she really does know that he is a bit in love with her then yes, as an adult, she does bare some personal responsibility for doing things that will ultimately make him think he has a chance and she needs to stop it before the actually crazy person does something stupid.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:05
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She told him she's not into him in that way. She's made it super clear. A hug ain't poo poo. My grandma hugs everyone, even people she isn't boning down on. Like, if a dude can't get over a touch on the arm or a celebratory hug from someone, that's totally his fault. She shouldn't have to jeopardize her game because he's being a creeper.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:11
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LesterGroans posted:She told him she's not into him in that way. She's made it super clear. They also had a shot of her adjusting whatever the hell was on his head when they were playing pool. Among other little touchy feely things over the various episodes. Yes Caleb bares responsibility for his actions. Yes he is being a massive creep. But Amber is locked in a house with him and is also an actual person capable of making decisions and controlling her actions. If you see the dude is being really weird about your "relationship" maybe take a step back and say, "this guy who I am locked in this house with doesn't seem right, I should probably avoid putting myself in situations with him where his crazy brain will get the wrong impression". There is nothing victim blaming about that, especially since Caleb hasn't actually done anything besides be a creep at the moment anyway. Like I said, maybe no one decided to tell her any of the things Caleb has said to them, for which, they are colossal dicks and are, in my opinion, literally putting her in danger for no reason. And that is super dickish considering other things the HGs have said about each other behind their backs. Telling Amber this info would rank pretty low on the list.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:16
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ToastyPotato posted:They also had a shot of her adjusting whatever the hell was on his head when they were playing pool. Among other little touchy feely things over the various episodes. Yes Caleb bares responsibility for his actions. Yes he is being a massive creep. But Amber is locked in a house with him and is also an actual person capable of making decisions and controlling her actions. If you see the dude is being really weird about your "relationship" maybe take a step back and say, "this guy who I am locked in this house with doesn't seem right, I should probably avoid putting myself in situations with him where his crazy brain will get the wrong impression". So, it's Amber's responsibility to change her personality and natural inclination to be a nice person because Caleb is creepy and misunderstands things? You also have to consider that this isn't the real world, where she could just avoid him as much as possible without repercussions, unless he spun out of control and hurt someone. In the BB house, this dude can turn against her and send her home if he gets upset with her. Considering how Caleb has been, if Amber just gave him the cold shoulder and avoided him as much as possible, he'd turn on her hardcore and work to get her out. Amber is in a really awkward and uncomfortable position. If she avoids him, he'll turn on her. If she tries to treat him like a friend, he gets the wrong idea. She can't win.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:46
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violetdragon posted:So, it's Amber's responsibility to change her personality and natural inclination to be a nice person because Caleb is creepy and misunderstands things? If we are talking game, then she should be trying to work to get him out. That is her responsibility as a contestant to get rid of a threat to her game. She hasn't done that at all so far from what I have seen. If we are talking personal safety, she shouldn't be touchy feely with the guy that is being creepy and obsessed with her that she is locked in a house with. So yes, that is her responsibility. He is not her friend. They have known each other for less than a month and he has repeatedly made it clear he wants to be more than friends and she has repeatedly rejected him. I don't think she is mentally ill herself so she should be able to control herself and be able to have conversations with him and be friendly without having to touch him or jump into his arms because she was happy for a second. Boundaries exist. She should exercise her will as an adult to set boundaries that do not cause problems for her in a game where she is trying to win 500K while being locked in a house with strangers. Like I said, this is all moot if it turns out people have purposefully been keeping the things he has been saying behind her back a secret to her.
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Jul 18, 2014 06:57
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She's not seeing the crazy that we see though. She has less of an idea of what his creep levels are, than we do.
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Jul 18, 2014 07:06
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No one has told her how he keeps calling her his queen? Or any of the other things he might have said? He's said it in front of the entire bomb squad at this point, probably even more people than that.
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Jul 18, 2014 07:12
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You also hear time and time again from former houseguests about how stressful living in the BB house can be. The paranoia, the lies, not knowing who you can trust, knowing that people are watching every move you make. There's something to be said for the loneliness that comes from that, and being able to touch someone that you know has no secret agendas against you can be reassuring. Maybe Amber knows she needs to be more consistent in her behavior, but Caleb could be a comfort in times of extra stress. It could also be an ego thing. However, I don't know her, so none of these should be interpreted as my diagnosis of her mindset.
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Jul 18, 2014 07:14
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blue squares posted:You also hear time and time again from former houseguests about how stressful living in the BB house can be. The paranoia, the lies, not knowing who you can trust, knowing that people are watching every move you make. There's something to be said for the loneliness that comes from that, and being able to touch someone that you know has no secret agendas against you can be reassuring. Maybe Amber knows she needs to be more consistent in her behavior, but Caleb could be a comfort in times of extra stress. It could also be an ego thing. However, I don't know her, so none of these should be interpreted as my diagnosis of her mindset. But she likes Cody and he likes her so why wouldn't she just be that way with him and not be that way with Caleb? Caleb is not the only person in the house.
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Jul 18, 2014 07:24
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These people are on live tv for a grand total of 10 minutes a week, is it that difficult to not swear for 10 minutes?
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Jul 18, 2014 07:25
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Orange Sunshine posted:These people are on live tv for a grand total of 10 minutes a week, is it that difficult to not swear for 10 minutes? They curse a lot and I think have kind of gotten used to cursing in this environment, if they didn't also live where they were on live TV, they would probably be able to turn it off easier.
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Jul 18, 2014 07:29
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ToastyPotato posted:But she likes Cody and he likes her so why wouldn't she just be that way with him and not be that way with Caleb? Caleb is not the only person in the house. You mean besides the fact that Caleb stalks them around the house glaring at them and then corners Cody to have bro-talks about how nobody is moving in on his woman afterwards? You think that might maybe quash their friendship a bit? ToastyPotato posted:No one has told her how he keeps calling her his queen? Or any of the other things he might have said? He's said it in front of the entire bomb squad at this point, probably even more people than that. I'm sure she's aware of it, but I think a lot of women respond to guys being creepers by trying to be nice to them, because we're often told it's our fault for leading them on. So if it's our fault, it's wrong to be mean to them for something we did. Plus, the last time Caleb got snitty with her he immediately started trying to have her evicted. Rodent Mortician fucked around with this message at 12:48 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 12:46
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violetdragon posted:So, it's Amber's responsibility to change her personality and natural inclination to be a nice person because Caleb is creepy and misunderstands things?
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Jul 18, 2014 12:54
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watwat posted:Yes No. It's Amber's responsibility to not do things that encourage Caleb. You don't go from reading a Bible on the hammock and basically ignoring the guy RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU and complaining about advances being made that you don't want and then jumping into their arms and wrapping your legs around them. If she truly wanted the creepiness to end, she would end it by flat out telling him it ain't gonna happen. Or she could complain to the producers. Or she could enlist help from the rest of the housemates. But everybody acts afraid of Caleb and no one steps up. But when you have someone that is as unhinged as Caleb obviously is, you don't do A N Y T H I N G to encourage them.
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Jul 18, 2014 13:39
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Can a new BB game be Julie asking evicted houseguests what Donny does in real life every week.
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Jul 18, 2014 15:13
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Rodent Mortician posted:You mean besides the fact that Caleb stalks them around the house glaring at them and then corners Cody to have bro-talks about how nobody is moving in on his woman afterwards? You think that might maybe quash their friendship a bit? All the more the reason for her to not do things to encourage him. Like I said, if she is aware of the stuff he has said, then she is absolutely doing the wrong thing here by being over the top "friendly" with him. And there is a difference between being mean, and being normal. Normal means not jumping into someone's arms and constantly finding a reason to touch them. Touch is a very serious thing for some people. Tide posted:No. Basically this. She seems kind of all over the place at the moment. One minute she is clearly rejecting the hell out of him (and she has definitely told him more than once that she doesn't see him in that way), the next minute she leap into his arms and practically wrap her legs around him? Because that's just a normal "friendship" thing? The guy that is stalking you around the house and acting creepy is that kind of "friend"? She is handling this very poorly right now. So poorly that my mother asked me if I thought Amber was just doing this on purpose because she likes the attention and is a trouble maker (she doesn't watch the feeds.)
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Jul 18, 2014 18:00
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STAC Goat posted:She likes him fine as a person and has no idea how obsessed he is. All she knows is that he's a fairly sweet guy who has a massive crush on her. In a moment of happiness and relief she hugged a friend. If he takes that as more than it is that's on him because he takes everything the wrong way. But she doesn't know this. She doesn't know that he runs around twisting everything she says into declarations of love. Yeah, no. http://i.imgur.com/Wz4FlNt.jpg Edit: to be clear, it takes two to tango. If she doesn't change the paradigm, she's victimizing herself and jeopardizing her game. If Caleb wants to push her out the door due to his unrequited love, it would take the complicity of the majority of the rest of the house. If she can't deduce the unlikeliness of this and use that information to set his rear end straight, its to her discredit. No need to paint her into the victim corner. KillTylerDurden fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 18:47
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sbaldrick posted:Can a new BB game be Julie asking evicted houseguests what Donny does in real life every week. I hope so!
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Jul 18, 2014 19:00
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violetdragon posted:I hope so! Just because it would make them all look so stupid
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Jul 18, 2014 19:33
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ToastyPotato posted:She is handling this very poorly right now. So poorly that my mother asked me if I thought Amber was just doing this on purpose because she likes the attention and is a trouble maker (she doesn't watch the feeds.) I think it bothers her but not enough to make a move to get him out. As long as he's there, he's going to do what he has to do to keep his 'queen' safe (see tossing the POV competition). So, you kind of have to ask the questions: Is Caleb a worse person because he can't see that she isn't in to him and acting like a stalker? Or is Amber worse of a person because she does juuuuuuuuuuust enough to keep him on her trail KNOWING FULL WELL that he's really in to her?
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Jul 18, 2014 20:13
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Amber couldn't get Caleb out of the house if she wanted to. She has no game allies and is only now beginning to build some relationships. The house was dead set on getting Devin out this week. Amber said a few times to people "do you think anyone is going to vote out Caleb?" and everytime it was done they shut the idea down and said no one wants Caleb gone. If she had tried to flip the house against him it would have just made her an easy target. No one in this house gives a poo poo about Amber's "comfort" or "safety." People like Frankie have actively encouraged Caleb's delusions and then when he turned called Amber a "user" and "manipulator." And Amber's closest "friend" Christine has been poisoning the house against her with lies. Friends like Jocasta and Brittany don't trust her because she's lied to them about the Bomb Squad. Amber has no friends. ToastyPotato posted:Like I said, this is all moot if it turns out people have purposefully been keeping the things he has been saying behind her back a secret to her. This is basically your answer. No one has spoken honestly with Amber about Caleb's behavior. They've all been perfectly content to stay quiet either because they don't consider it their business or because they're content to let Caleb and Amber's games go down under the weight of this. Its only in the last couple of days that ANYONE has spoken to Amber about Caleb's feelings and its still being presented as "he's crushing on you" or "he's falling for you" or "he's chasing you." I've never heard the words "obsession" or "infatuation" or "creepy" said to her. I've rarely heard them voiced at all in the house. Only a handful of people seem to have a grasp on how bad Caleb is and they're keeping their mouths shut. And remember, no one in the house has seen what we've seen. No one has seen him spraying her perfume on himself or lying in bed staring at her picture. Each individual houseguest knows how much he talks about Amber to them but they have no idea he does it with everyone. And they don't know how much Caleb warps his conversations with Amber when he retells them to others. When the other houseguests talk about this to each other they say "I feel bad for Amber but I don't know, maybe she's telling him they'll be together after the show." They don't know the whole story and they're drawing logical conclusions that Amber is doing something to encourage this and Caleb isn't as crazy as it seems. Amber knows that a "sweet" guy she's friends with has a big crush on her. She finally started to really push away the last couple of days because he was getting aggressive and pushy about things and was holding that BotB situation over her head to try and guilt her into advancing the relationship. THAT was Amber's first indication that this is more than a crush and its to this point the only indication she seems to have. She purposely avoided him the next two days, which isn't easy to do considering she shares a bedroom with him. I'm not on board with criticizing her for giving him a hug in a moment of happiness as encouraging his delusions. Will it encourage his delusions? Yeah, probably. Does she know enough information to know anything feeds his delusions? Not that we've seen. STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 20:18
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STAC Goat posted:I'm not on board with criticizing her for giving him a hug in a moment of happiness as encouraging his delusions. Will it encourage his delusions? Yeah, probably. Does she know enough information to know anything feeds his delusions? Not that we've seen. And that's probably my biggest problem with all this. She knows he's in to her - whether a crush or full blown want to marry her smelling the pillow she was laying on give her all my blankets in love with her. But when you're telling someone "nope not gonna happen" but then jumping into their arms, wrapping your legs around them and kissing them...it's broadcasting all sorts of mixed up signals for someone you KNOW is in to you. A kiss on the cheek is just that...A kiss on the cheek. But it depends on the perspective of the person getting the kiss. Look at this way... When Donny and Amber won the competition, she's all "COME HERE DONNY SO I CAN GIVE YOU A BIG OL' KISS!!". No big deal. Because Donny's not in to her (ignoring the fact that he's got his own hottie at home drat).
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Jul 18, 2014 20:50
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But she kisses Donny because she assume's he's sane enough not to take it out of context. She assumes the same out of Caleb because she doesn't know how obsessed or unhinged he really is. THAT's the problem. If someone went to Amber and said "he talks about you night and day, he twists your stories, he wears your perfurme and clothes, he fantasizes about meeting your family" then maybe she'd get skeeved out and back off. But to this point her concern hasn't been her safety or well being. She's not worried about that stuff because she has only a small piece of the big picture. She's talked more about being worried about hurting Caleb's feelings or her game falling apart because of all of this. It just makes me very uncomfortable that we seem to be turning this whole thing into "she's asking for it." STAC Goat fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 20:57
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STAC Goat posted:But she kisses Donny because she assume's he's sane enough not to take it out of context. She assumes the same out of Caleb because she doesn't know how obsessed or unhinged he really is. THAT's the problem. If someone went to Amber and said "he talks about you night and day, he twists your stories, he wears your perfurme and clothes, he fantasizes about meeting your family" then maybe she'd get skeeved out and back off. First, NOBODY is saying she is asking for it. Far from it. If that's what you're getting from my posts, I apologize and would really appreciate you pointing it out so I can clarify it. It's certainly not my intention to be making that case. EDIT (again, but leaving what said anyway): OK, I kind of see what you're getting at and I was operating/responding in terms of Calebs creepy obsession and not simply in terms of him having a crush on her. But yeah, she is bringing this on her self by not properly addressing the elephant in the room which is Caleb's feelings for her HOWEVER irrational, creepy, obsessive they may be. What I'm saying is that she's not doing herself any favors by flirting with someone that's obviously very much in to her when she doesn't have the same feelings for them (however excessive they are). For the sake of argument, however obsessed/unhinged Caleb is doesn't matter. Ignore it for a moment. Lets toss that out and only talk about it in her context of "Caleb has the hots for her"; of which she is obviously fully aware of as she has continually rebuffed his advances. By continuing to be flirty and kiss and huggy when SHE wants to, she's sending the signal that they have a chance. Maybe "Lloyd Christmas one in a million chance", but there's a chance. And that one in a million chance fuels the fire. If she were truly worried about hurting his feelings she wouldn't be flirty with him - at all. Tide fucked around with this message at 21:20 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 21:08
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STAC Goat posted:But she kisses Donny because she assume's he's sane enough not to take it out of context. She assumes the same out of Caleb because she doesn't know how obsessed or unhinged he really is. THAT's the problem. If someone went to Amber and said "he talks about you night and day, he twists your stories, he wears your perfurme and clothes, he fantasizes about meeting your family" then maybe she'd get skeeved out and back off. I really appreciate your opinion on this and efforts to outline how "it's amber's fault too" is gross.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:10
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Tide posted:First, NOBODY is saying she is asking for it. Far from it. If that's what you're getting from my posts, I apologize and would really appreciate you pointing it out so I can clarify it. It's certainly not my intention to be making that case. Just to get out of the way I didn't see you say anything specific that made me thing "she's asking for it." It just felt like the overall tone of this discussion. I genuinely don't understand why if we acknowledge that Caleb is obsessed and Amber has rejected him multiple times why we need to further examine how she's the cause of this because she hugged the guy or gave him a kiss on the cheek. I just don't see these things as flirty. Maybe we come from different experiences or cultures or something. I have platonic female friends who give me pecks on the cheek or hugs all the time. That's not flirty to me. "Flirty" is her hand on my thigh or her sitting in my lap or cuddling up with me. Things Amber does with Cody or Hayden but not with Caleb. There really is a clear divide with how she treats Caleb and Donny and how she treats Cody and Hayden. Caleb has noticed it and commented on it. He's said "she won't let me give her a massage or cuddle with her but then she does it with them." She's laid out the signs clearly and there is a very obvious difference in how she treats Caleb to the point where even he has noticed it and commented on it. This whole Cody thing is because Cody gave her a long massage when she's told Caleb no when he's asked to massage her. And that Amber and Cody spent time in the hammock the day after Amber denied Caleb's request for time in the hammock. Caleb sees it and acknowledges it. But he doesn't process it like a normal person. That's where we can't ignore Caleb's obsession because its the problem. Because when Caleb sees this sort of thing he says "Why would she let them touch her but not me? It makes me think she isn't interested in me." But then he darts right past that and goes to "Or you know what? She probably just doesn't do it with me because her feelings to me are special." Amber doesn't know he's doing that poo poo because no one tells her. So she's treating this like a normal situation. She's kept her distance, made her rejections, and is clearly treating Caleb different than Cody. She just doesn't recognize he's nuts and she needs to go further. Caleb is crazy and Amber is too nice for her own good. I don't see why it has to go beyond that.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:23
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There's no cultural divide or anything here. It's all about context of the person receiving the flirt. Obviously, Donny, you, I and any other normal sane person CAN get a smooch and not read anything whatsoever in to it. Not making excuses but Caleb is young (and dumb). His perspective is "I want to marry this girl" so when she shows affection and ESPECIALLY physical affection - regardless of her previous attempts at telling him she's not interested - it's like adding gas to a fire for HIM. I'm not expecting her to be omnipotent and knowing the full extent of Caleb's insane feelings for her, but I do somewhat expect her to know that he DOES have feelings for her and not do things to make them worse when she's made it clear she doesn't reciprocate those feelings. Mostly because that's the right thing to do someone who has feelings for you that you do not. I've been on both sides of that coin - having feelings for someone that doesn't feel the same way. And yeah, you can definitely have a friendship, even a close one, but it's much, MUCH easier when both agree to set boundries. I suppose the tl;dr version is look at it from Caleb's perspective (but don't go all insane about it like him) and how someone that has feelings for another could be encouraged to pursue someone that says one thing "I'm not in to you" but does another (jumps into arms, wraps legs around waist, and kisses you). Anyway. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Tide fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Jul 18, 2014 |
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Jul 18, 2014 21:31
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We've all had unrequited crushes or been crushed on by someone. Yeah, things can get complicated if you don't want to create some distance or stop some behavior. But there's a gap between "hug and kiss on the cheek" and "cuddling under the cover." Amber's drawn that line and Caleb has commented on it. He's just unhealthy enough to come up with bizarre rationalizations for why it just further proves her love for him. But she doesn't know this. No one has told her and she's had no indication that his "crush" is really an "infatuation" or "obsession." THAT's the problem. She's treating Caleb like you and me and Donny because she assumes he can get the point like we all would. No one's opened her eyes to the reality of the situation, and I'm not even sure the people in the house see it themselves. I think we both agree that Amber needs to create MORE distance from her and Caleb. But where we disagree is that she has enough information to know that or that she hasn't created more than enough distance for a sane, rational man to read. And of course there's the added game aspect where every time she's pushed Caleb away personally its resulted in Frankie and Caleb's allies pushing her away in game. The last time she distanced herself from Caleb the entire house stopped talking to her and Caleb was painting a target on her back. When she started distancing herself last week Caleb reacted the same way again and the Bomb Squad again added her to their immediate target list. All because she isn't enabling Caleb's infatuation.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:39
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STAC Goat posted:Amber has no friends. Really?  STAC Goat posted:I'm not on board with criticizing her for giving him a hug in a moment of happiness as encouraging his delusions. Will it encourage his delusions? Yeah, probably. Does she know enough information to know anything feeds his delusions? Not that we've seen. You don't give hugs with your lips. His blowup over the backrub and the lack of an ensuing conversation between the two of them runs contrary to your last assertion.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:43
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The house pushes them together because if you get Ambers vote in your pocket, you automatically have Caleb's vote. Zach or Cody made a great point about that last night to Derrick (I think, I might have the names wrong, but anyway). If you can control Amber, you got Caleb. He's going to do whatever she says. And Amber is obviously easy to control. I suppose the only time that's right to split them up is a) when you lose control of Amber or b) late in the game before she has a chance to build up enough power to run the table and leave Caleb hanging at the end.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:46
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KillTylerDurden posted:Really? AMBER sees Caleb as a sweet friend with a crush on her. The reality is he's an obsessed psycho who discards her loyalty or friendship when he doesn't get what he wants. She doesn't see this. KillTylerDurden posted:His blowup over the backrub and the lack of an ensuing conversation between the two of them runs contrary to your last assertion.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:50
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I think the blow up was his death stare at Amber and Cody as he walked by. I was 99 percent sure that when he told Cody that he wanted to talk to him that once they were outside he was going to throw down his hat, take off his shirt, and come out swinging. Dude has the self esteem of 0 and an ego that can be shattered with a light wind. He's a red alert clinger after the first date. He's the sophomore high school girl that practices writing her name with the last name of the star QB.
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Jul 18, 2014 21:54
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