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Aphrodite posted:I would think once superheroes emerged, Fury adjusted his role. Then why is he keeping these things a secret? If there's a demon making a ruckus, why not just alert Dr. Strange or one of the other heroes who dabble in that area of the Marvel Universe? Not even so they might swing by and kick the poo poo out of said offending demon like they do every loving day, but possibly so that someone might know if he fucks something up. I know Fury is boss awesome, (actually more like boss awesome to the extreme to the max... like half a Wolverine) but his "side project" shield had its fair share of failures under his watch. Because if their point isn't that only Fury can take care of the real threats, which is how I read it, then the guy's real amazing ability is finding poo poo out. So his amazing gently caress up is keeping things super secret. At what point does "aliens are thinking about coming to Earth and pissing in our Cheerios" cause widespread panic when a few months ago, Marvel time, the queen of the skrulls was assassinated on live television? Putting that aside though, as far as keeping things an absolute secret from other superheroes and superhero teams or even shield, I have to ask why? There is absolutely no reason for him to be going behind everyone's backs to protect the Earth from threats from the center of the Earth, the far reaches of the galaxy, and the nethersphere of mumbo-jumbo land all on his lonesome when there are a shitload of heroes who handle each element on their own without his intervention or advice every single day and kick rear end doing so. Why does he have to keep it an absolute secret from the guy tasked to protect spacetime from the supernatural that he might be shooting demons with his super gun? Why can't he ever let Reed Richards know he might be getting information from mole people about something that's good at digging? What exactly will happen if the Avengers find out that there's yet another alien planet full of assholes who think it's no big deal to kill people who speak English? He has a huge pile of threats he allows his super secret spy organization to know about, but he keeps four to five times that amount of other threats a secret for... who the gently caress knows why? It must be a hobby or something because he's in the threat mitigation business but has totally eschewed diplomacy. I don't mean the "please don't hurt us" kind alone, the we will drop one of out Earth destroying bombs (something Earthlings can make without his secret stash of alien tech) if you don't kindly gently caress off. While I have to assume space faring aliens might notice a pattern when every time one of their boys says something along the lines of "gently caress Earth" their heads explode, but most of these examples are evil groups thinking about going after Earth because it's unprotected. It might not be a bad idea to float the idea out there that it actually is protected. He can even keep his abilities to one eye snipe gods to himself if he really wants to. Also, the "noble heroes" bit was me being a smart rear end. The army might be a bunch of heroes, and snipers in the military are a-ok in my book. The thing is, they don't pick their targets all on their own. They don't go to wherever they feel like and dispense high caliber justice all on their own. There is oversight. There are rules. If they shoot a school teacher instead of a bomb maker, there's a chance they might get punished for it. Fury has exactly none of that. He kill whoever he thinks he needs to whenever he thinks it needs to be done. I acknowledge all comics are basically vigilante-ism, but I wouldn't confuse the Punisher with the words noble or hero. The kills Fury has "on camera" all seem mostly justified, but he was also moments away from sniping Spiderman and stopped because "feelings". He didn't decide Peter deserved to live because of what he did or how he did it, he just gave him a chance. Did he have a habit of killing people who randomly got superpowers before that moment? The worst part, to me, is that had he shot Peter Parker that day, he would have gotten away with it without repercussion. He'd still sit his LMD next to Steve Rogers at the BBQ and think how much of an awesome Man on the Wall he is. As I said before, the whole Fury part of this event is loving bullshit and almost insultingly stupid as gently caress. It also fits in quite fine with a lot of Marvel's recent droppings.
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Jul 20, 2014 00:59
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They're colorful books for children dude. Let it go.
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Jul 20, 2014 03:00
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Aphrodite posted:They're colorful books for children dude. Let it go. Yeah, my bad. I shouldn't think about the things I read. Good call. So, just to be clear: is it that books made for children are immune from criticism? Or is it the colorful aspect that pokes holes in my little diatribe? If it were in black and white, would it then be all right if I expected a little logical and moral clarity? Is it wrong to point out moral failures in things made for children? In writing in a thread about colorful and childish things, are you also trying too hard or whatever it is you're accusing me of? Edit: to too. LittlePriest fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Jul 20, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 03:22
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LittlePriest posted:Yeah, my bad. I shouldn't think about the things I read. Good call. No, but if you are getting angry at comics maybe you should stop reading the comics that are making you angry. No one is forcing you to continue to read this series. I hate everything DC is doing with the New 52, and where Spider-Man is currently at, so I just don't loving read them.
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Jul 20, 2014 04:17
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I'm not mad. Really. I mean, who doesn't like bitching about things that suck? I had assumed you guys would just agree honestly. There's not much in the way of a defense for this bullshit. I also find that the thing that bothers me about it all comes closer to the forefront the more I write about it. There's something deeply wrong about it all but I haven't quite put my finger on it yet. I figure a few more pages of saying "this is bullshit", "this is why I think this is bullshit", or simply copying and pasting the word "bullshit" about a thousand times, and I'll find the exact reason it rubs me the wrong way. Then, hopefully I will have learned something about myself. Or not. Whatever. I can understand if it's pissing some of you off. It was just so god damned stupid I had to write about it.
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Jul 20, 2014 05:14
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Aphrodite posted:They're colorful books for children dude. Let it go. Oh cool, I traveled back in time to the 80's.
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Jul 20, 2014 12:55
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If you don't like it, don't read it! If you accidentally read something you did not love unconditionally, try to drink/take sedatives heavily enough to forget you read something you didn't like, or at least for crissake DON'T BE A NEGATIVE NANCY AND GET FEELS AND COMPLAIN ABOUT IT. If you read something you liked and then stopped liking it, probably just kill yourself. I think our best bet is to probably close all threads other than the funny panels thread, the badass panels thread, the touching panels thread, and maybe also a thread where you show off badass swag. Maybe just set up four group tumblrs instead of a forum, to avoid any sticky problems with overthinking or being full of cares or otherwise devoting too much time or effort to such an obviously childish and stupid senseless piece of poo poo topic. COMICS, EVERYBODY. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 14:20 on Jul 20, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 14:17
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LittlePriest posted:I had assumed you guys would just agree honestly.
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Jul 20, 2014 14:33
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I have to overall agree with LP. I'm reading this because I like Aaron so it isn't like I'm hate reading it. But I think it is fairly absurd and I think Aaron is a better writer than this.
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Jul 20, 2014 18:37
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I honestly can't bring myself to nerdrage at Man on the Wall Fury. A ridiculous cosmic murder mystery that essentially deifies Old Man Fury by ramping up his accomplishments to ridiculous levels is a fitting premise for an event that's probably going to be the character's swansong. Honestly, I'm more offended by the Deodato poser porn artwork.
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Jul 20, 2014 19:30
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I'm not nerd raging, it just doesn't feel like a Fury story to me, it feels like a Dirk Anger story. This is really the first thing Aaron has done I haven't loved, I guess Fury is a little too grounded in my mind for Aaron's usual turn it up to elven then yank off the knob style. I always saw Fury dealing with the subtle threats, the spies and politics, stuff that you can't just shoot with a giant gun or throw an angry green nerd at but now he's been doing comic book hero work the whole time and it's just disappointing. SirDan3k fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Jul 20, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 21:36
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SirDan3k posted:I'm not nerd raging, it just doesn't feel like a Fury story to me, it feels like a Dirk Anger story.  Nope! e: Like I do actually get where you're coming from, but Fury has always been a dude who's existed in a comic book universe, fought supervillains, and had a million robot duplicates of himself. He gets cast in a more serious role a lot, but he's never been some sort of super-gritty character. Tulul fucked around with this message at 01:11 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 01:08
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SirDan3k posted:I'm not nerd raging, it just doesn't feel like a Fury story to me, it feels like a Dirk Anger story. You mean other dealing with Hydra and their doomsday weapons?
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Jul 21, 2014 02:59
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Fury's been the in the background spy-master as long as I've been alive with most of his crazier stuff glossed over and Hydra is the Bond-ish world threat I'd expect him to be dealing with.
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Jul 21, 2014 03:52
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notthegoatseguy posted:I have to overall agree with LP. I'm reading this because I like Aaron so it isn't like I'm hate reading it. But I think it is fairly absurd and I think Aaron is a better writer than this. I think the problem is precisely that it isn't absurd enough. I remember looking at those great covers in the original solicits, and reading the first couple of issues. What a set up, especially the shockingly simple and elegant premise of just tossing together such novel team-ups. Dr. Strange and the Punisher roaming around in the nether realms! Gamora sharing a rocketship with Moon Knight! Emma Frost and Scott Lang, for some reason coming up against those lurid, amazing pulp badguys from Marvel Boy! It feels so banal and exhausting to be promised the wild adventures of Rocket Raccoon and Black Panther or whatever, only to find out that that adventure boils down to "standing around listening to Nick Fury blather on about stuff I'd already read in between the lines of Secret Warriors." I look at the high concept of this mini-series, the cast, and Aaron's past work, and I cannot believe I'm as bored by this as I am.
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Jul 21, 2014 04:01
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I feel like until issue six it was kind of fine because at least stuff was still happening but that last issue was just nothing at all. Still hope there's some more goofy ideas in the last two issues, crossovers should be fun. At least no one's gotten graphically ripped in half yet!
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Jul 21, 2014 05:05
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SirDan3k posted:Fury's been the in the background spy-master as long as I've been alive with most of his crazier stuff glossed over and Hydra is the Bond-ish world threat I'd expect him to be dealing with. I wouldn't say this is really too far removed from Fury dealing with say Secret War a number of years back. You can argue that if he was doing all this stuff then why couldn't he just deal with Latvaria rather than recruiting other heroes but even then there's arguments to be made for how he couldn't have overthrown a country on his own. It's all really just a love letter to NICK FURY: ULTIMATE MARVEL SPY before he dies and Bucky takes the spy stuff while nuNick Fury takes the SHIELD agent stuff.
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Jul 21, 2014 11:47
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I love that one of the LMDs was named Matilda.
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Jul 21, 2014 13:23
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I don't understand how people can be upset about this book being too goofy. It's clearly going for over the top pulp goofiness to the max. He shot a loving planet with a gamma bullet. That's  .Just because the visual aesthetic is dark and noir-y, people assume the writing has to be that 100%. God forbid a comic have a little fun. Also, am I the only one really enjoying the Hulk vs. Iron Man comic? I've liked both issues a lot so far and no one's talking about it.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:53
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Unmature posted:I don't understand how people can be upset about this book being too goofy. It's clearly going for over the top pulp goofiness to the max. He shot a loving planet with a gamma bullet. That's Any comic that has Tony getting shown how much of an idiot he truly is I'm going to like. The Hulk turning him into a bloody smear is A-OK with me. Also its so typical that instead of him owning up to it after he finds out that oh poo poo I probably did cause the Hulk to happen because of my alcoholic abuse he's going to try and HIDE IT??? Oh man I'm so hoping for some more justified Hulk Smash, as much since World War Hulk.
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Jul 21, 2014 21:15
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Don't get your hopes up for a good Tony smashing, they pulled out the old Smart Hulk card so Hulk is probably going to lose. A Smart Hulk in the story is like having a half starved Galactus show up the fight's already over except the splash panels.
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Jul 21, 2014 23:40
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So let me get this straight. People are annoyed at the story because a military-trained, overly-competent, grizzled, one-eyed guy has been depicted as way too competent and way too badass that it all falls apart when you look at it critically for more than five seconds? Wow. This really is Identity Crisis for Marvel.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:18
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Gavok posted:So let me get this straight. People are annoyed at the story because a military-trained, overly-competent, grizzled, one-eyed guy has been depicted as way too competent and way too badass that it all falls apart when you look at it critically for more than five seconds? Oh my god.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:32
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I've caught up on this comic and it is absolutely loco. Imagine a casual fan picking up ORIGINAL SIN THE MARVEL ENTERTAINMENT COMIC EVENT OF TYOOL 2014 TPB in the hopes of another Civil War or Secret Invasion and seeing THE ORB. It is a Venture Bros. episode disguised under the awfulawfulawful, joke-missing Mike Deodato artwork, like M. Night Shyamalan working with a Neveldine/Taylor script. Aaron has spun an entire story from that awesome Steranko cover of Fury In Space, exactly like Ellis did with grabbing various Marvel oddities out of context in Nextwave. drat! Disney may have all the merchandise billions, inmates are running the basement level here.
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Jul 26, 2014 22:30
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fatherboxx posted:I've caught up on this comic and it is absolutely loco. Even an event book written by climax-after-climax mediagenic Mark Millar will dedicate the first eight pages of Civil War to the New Warriors -- not even the moderately popular 1990s New Warriors, but the reality-show guys from a short-lived 2000s mini-series. Lots of c-listers show up and sometimes even play major roles in big shiny event comics. The core cast of Original Sin is almost entirely stalwart Marvel Universe characters and past and future movie properties like Hulk, Captain America, Punisher, Wolverine, Iron Man, Black Widow, Winter Solider, Ant-Man, Gamorra, Doctor Strange, Moon Knight, Black Panther, Nick Fury, etc. The Orb is an oddball pet character and I guess you could argue the same for Midas/Exterminatrix, but this feels like a weird oppositional reading that could be equally applied to the outre cult class art comic Infinite Crisis, which transgressed readers in the loving face by featuring UNCLE SAM AS A MOTHERFUCKING SUPERHERO TEAM LEADER and WILD DOG and THREE SUPERMANS FIGHTING EACH OTHER ON TOP OF A PLANET WHO'S A GREEN LANTERN. The story of Original Sin is that someone got murdered and a bunch of marquee star heroes got upset and want to FIND THE TRUTH and then also some c-list villains are getting a revamp while taking the blame for the killing. I mean, there are odd couple teams that let people go LOL PUNISHER AND DOCTOR STRANGE WHAT IN THE WORLD WHAT IN THE WORLD. Is that all it takes to be Venture Bros wacky Crank 2 High Voltage David Lynch on Burroughs-laced acid now? Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 01:14
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Edge & Christian posted:The core cast of Original Sin is almost entirely stalwart Marvel Universe characters and past and future movie properties like Hulk, Captain America, Punisher, Wolverine, Iron Man, Black Widow, Winter Solider, Ant-Man, Gamorra, Doctor Strange, Moon Knight, Black Panther, Your optimism that they might ever make a Moon Knight movie is touching.  Gavok posted:So let me get this straight. People are annoyed at the story because a military-trained, overly-competent, grizzled, one-eyed guy has been depicted as way too competent and way too badass that it all falls apart when you look at it critically for more than five seconds?  ?
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Jul 27, 2014 03:44
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First Bass posted:Your optimism that they might ever make a Moon Knight movie is touching. They keep trying to revamp him and put him in things like Original Sin, so I'm sure someone is looking to bring him into the movie/TV universe.
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Jul 27, 2014 04:08
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Edge & Christian posted:For some reason I thought he was one of the four Netflix series that Marvel is developing, but I got my wires crossed. He's rumored to be in Ant-Man in some way.
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Jul 27, 2014 04:43
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He's also going to be in Patton Oswalt's Star Wars sequel.
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Jul 27, 2014 06:18
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Edge & Christian posted:I'm kind of lost on this interpretation. Well, New Warriors were massacred in the first pages of Civil War as "poo poo gets real" moment and Geoff Johns is yet to find a silly concept that he can't turn into poo poo polished with self-importance. Although the first half of Blackest Night was akin to Original Sin in the sense of throwing toys to the ground without much care, superzombies turning people into salt and eating their friends is loving hilarious. Final Crisis had the pet Morrison themes to excuse the crazy amesome stuff, like god-killing bullets that Aaron has borrowed to use here, Original Sin is written just for the enjoyment from the deliberately outrageous retcons, concept clashes and a chance to write some high-class Morrison fanfic. Aaron's Morrison worship reminded me of this gem:   
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Jul 27, 2014 07:17
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Okay so how is this like Nextwave? Like Venture Bros.? How have these previous crossovers not begun to psychically shield puny normal's minds from THE PSYCHEDELIC NOOTROPIC ZODIAC MINDFUCK that is a character named the Orb?
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Jul 27, 2014 07:22
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The concept behind Nextwave is unearthing of strange and silly in the Marvel history and bringing it in the Marvel comics of today, obsessed with the believability and order. Here we have a comic free of real world analogies (unless you project the Nick Fury retcon odyssey on Garth Ennis' Fury participating in every Cold War adventure), but full of wonderful stuff that has been considered not kosher enough for proper continuity. Of course, the decade of WEF alumni and Morrison fanboys heading Marvel creative dulls the impact, but even Fraction and Hickman, who love to go crazy, blew their chance to have fun when they had their event crossovers. Original Sin reminds me of Venture Bros. because VB loves to resolve the grudges of insecure costumed people in the grouptalk, and most of this comic has been "a dozen of random Marvel characters move and bicker" interspersed with splashes of violence.
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Jul 27, 2014 07:43
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fatherboxx posted:The concept behind Nextwave is unearthing of strange and silly in the Marvel history and bringing it in the Marvel comics of today, obsessed with the believability and order. No, the concept behind Nextwave is "People like comics with punching and swearing and Warren Ellis can only take that kind of poo poo so seriously, so let's just let him be Warren Ellis as long as there is punching and also explosions."
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Jul 27, 2014 08:40
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:No, the concept behind Nextwave is "People like comics with punching and swearing and Warren Ellis can only take that kind of poo poo so seriously, so let's just let him be Warren Ellis as long as there is punching and also explosions." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rk3p9rqLKGA
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Jul 27, 2014 17:20
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fatherboxx posted:Well, New Warriors were massacred in the first pages of Civil War as "poo poo gets real" moment and Geoff Johns is yet to find a silly concept that he can't turn into poo poo polished with self-importance. Although the first half of Blackest Night was akin to Original Sin in the sense of throwing toys to the ground without much care, superzombies turning people into salt and eating their friends is loving hilarious. What are those pics from?
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Jul 27, 2014 17:27
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fatherboxx posted:The concept behind Nextwave is unearthing of strange and silly in the Marvel history and bringing it in the Marvel comics of today, obsessed with the believability and order. quote:Here we have a comic free of real world analogies (unless you project the Nick Fury retcon odyssey on Garth Ennis' Fury participating in every Cold War adventure), but full of wonderful stuff that has been considered not kosher enough for proper continuity. Of course, the decade of WEF alumni and Morrison fanboys heading Marvel creative dulls the impact, but even Fraction and Hickman, who love to go crazy, blew their chance to have fun when they had their event crossovers. quote:Original Sin reminds me of Venture Bros. because VB loves to resolve the grudges of insecure costumed people in the grouptalk, and most of this comic has been "a dozen of random Marvel characters move and bicker" interspersed with splashes of violence. I should say I *really like* Venture Bros. but going back to your original post, I think if you gave this book to your average "I really like the Marvel Cinematic Universe and I read a couple X-Mens as a kid" fan they wouldn't be that confused at all. If you gave this to someone with the premise "If you liked Venture Bros., this is for you!" they would be positively baffled and waiting for the funny part or the twist where Black Panther is a child molester or something. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 18:31 on Jul 27, 2014 |
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Jul 27, 2014 18:28
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I think the only remote similarity between this story and VB is the character of The Orb. I mean, he's a guy with an eyeball for a head who is obsessed with stealing eyeballs. He definitely could've wandered right out of that show. Other than that, yeah I don't see any similarities.
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Jul 27, 2014 20:46
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Disney should buy the Venture Brothers just so they can fold Manic 8-Ball into their cast.
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Jul 27, 2014 20:53
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*huff, puff* Sorry I'm late it's just I was over a few forums away and did somebody kind of tangentially refer to the Slingers?
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Jul 27, 2014 22:14
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Edge & Christian posted:What did it really unearth Fing Fang Foom
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Jul 28, 2014 05:49
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