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Played a couple matches with: Corran Horn + Fire Control System + Push The Limit + R7-T1 Wedge Antilles + Outmaneuver Tarn Mison + R7 Astromech vs. Major Rhymer + Proton Bombs + Adv. Proton Torpedoes (x2) + Cluster Missiles (x2) + Marksmanship Colonel Jendon + Weapons Engineer + Anti-Pursuit Lasers Obsidian Squadron Pilot The first match I wiped my opponent, the second he adjusted strategy and blasted Tarn and Wedge before I could do much with them, but Corran managed to kill all three of my opponent's ships himself (with some thanks to the asteroids and some lucky dice rolls). I think it'd have gone better by dumping Outmaneuver from Wedge and adding a stealth device to Corran... Tarn + R7 is a probably one of the best 25 points you can field in a Rebel squad, I'd say. overdesigned fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 03:55
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Alright guys, help sell me on the TIE Defender because right now I think it kind of blows. The two unique pilots are bad, it's too expensive, has no evade action. On the other hand, the white k-turn is nuts. I don't think the ship is a total wash, but can it be competitive? I have been trying to put it into builds and here is the first one I kind of like: Pilots ------ Rexler Brath (47) TIE Defender (37), Concussion Missiles (4), Ion Cannon (3), Predator (3) Backstabber (16) Mauler Mithel (18) TIE Fighter (17), Veteran Instincts (1) Howlrunner (19) TIE Fighter (18), Veteran Instincts (1) What do you think and what are your TIE Defender builds?
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Jul 21, 2014 04:04
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I am finding that Rexler Brath sucks unless he has Decoy, as he fires waaaaaaaaay too early to trigger his ability otherwise. Vessery might as well be the only named Defender imho. It might be just worth taking a Delta SQ. Defender otherwise.
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Jul 21, 2014 05:32
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I have a number of Defender builds I am thinking up, but I am running into the same problems everyone else is right now. How do I beat a Phantom and how do I beat a Falcon list built to beat a Phantom? To defeat a Phantom, you need multiple arcs to hit their possible endpoints, which requires a larger number of ships, something the Defender with its high point cost does not allow. The other way is by moving after a Phantom and shooting first. To that end I like Brath + VI + Engine Fel + PTL That leaves 28 points to try to find a way to beat HSF/YT+Zs/Double Falcon. I'm thinking a couple of Academies for blocking and a TC for Fel, but I'll need to test it out. Could go for a buzzsaw without the Engine as well, or another named Int. Other than thinking competitively, I was also thinking of ways to use Vessery since his ability is amazing. I've seen a number of people making buzzsaws and fast-shuttles into TL factories, but I think it takes too many points to build an effective list. I want to give this a go during my next casual: Vessery + Outmaneuver Doom Shuttle + Weapon Eng TIE Bomber + Ion or FT Backstabber/Dark Curse
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Jul 21, 2014 11:04
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So tonight is the first night for the progression league I'm joining which I'd mentioned previously, where we are starting off with 50 point squads for the first couple weeks. I'm on the fence between the single YT1300 idea previously discussed (Chewbacca +VI +C3PO +R2D2), or an XB list (something like Tarn +R7 Astro, Blue Squad +Adv Sensors?). Don't know which to do! Suggestions? Any other ideas last minute for fun 50pt builds? Also, the buy-in for the league includes 1 small ship for our chosen faction, but I'm not sure what to pick up between (probably) another Z-95 or E-Wing and would love some suggestions. I've only got 1 of each currently, and the only other ship I'd consider at this point I think would be a 3rd B-Wing, but it seems unnecessary. e: vvv Yeah, especially with Aces coming out, thanks for the reminder. vvv Merauder fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 15:12
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I definitely wouldn't get another B-Wing with Rebel Aces coming out. E-Wing is useful for another Advanced Sensors.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:17
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KO Derf posted:I have a number of Defender builds I am thinking up, but I am running into the same problems everyone else is right now. How do I beat a Phantom and how do I beat a Falcon list built to beat a Phantom? The list that I want to try out as a dual Phantom/YT killer doesn't rely 100% on blocking, but instead adds stress to the mix. Stress does awful things to Phantoms, because while they're stressed they can neither cloak nor decloak. Blocking on top of that makes for some really dead Phantoms. Decimator isn't out yet, but the second it hits shelves, the list I'll be running is: Omicron group pilot (34) Heavy Laser Cannon Rebel Captive Mara Jade Black Squadron Pilot (15) Draw Their Fire Black Squadron Pilot (15) Draw Their Fire Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) Total: 100 points. The only things that any of my guys are going to be moving after are Sigmas with my Blacks, so making the initiative bid is fairly pointless. Rebel Captive and Mara Jade can dispense at least one and up to three or four stress per turn with the right positioning, and if the Phantoms try to come in for a good range 1 shot, the first one doesn't get to cloak even with ACD (stress happens at declaration, free cloak happens after), and the rest don't get to decloak the next turn.
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Jul 21, 2014 18:15
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I believe a stressed Phantom can decloak, since it's an "event" and not an action. But you're correct in the general sense that Phantoms HATE stress--not recloaking after an attack leaves them really exposed.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:00
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Yeah, they can still decloak, take a green maneuver, and recloak after their next shot. You need two stress on them to really screw them up. The Rebel captive will keep a phantom from using ACD, but honestly, I'd just save the llambda for last. It's easy to arc dodge them while fighting everything else. I did just that with a defender and the bombers on Saturday. Killed 4 other ships while staying behind the llambda. It got one shot on the initial pass. The best stress counter to phantoms imo is multiple flechettes or flechettes and tactician/r3a2. Problem is, flechettes are useless against a falcon. Lunatic Pathos fucked around with this message at 19:11 on Jul 21, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 19:08
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Speaking of which, does anyone have any other fun/silly ideas for what to do with a Lambda shuttle? I mean, the obvious ones going by the pilot abilities is to use them as stress sinks or target-lock dispensers However, the former seems a bit limited to ships that either need to move around a lot (thus going out of range) or who can already shed stress fairly, and the latter obviously requires lots of lock-on weapons to see any real use, and that rather limits which ships can be used.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:35
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It can also be fun to make them into a giant blocker. Engine upgrade, navigator, intelligence agent, advanced sensors, and an ion cannon makes for some infuriating potential. Bonus: with an omicron group (so you don't really have to spend on enhanced scopes and can take advanced sensors) all of that is 35 points. Flesh out the rest of the list with a hideous number of Academy Pilots (and maybe Mauler? You'll be at range 1 a lot). Enjoy.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:04
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Corran Horn (40) E-Wing (35), Fire-Control System (2), Predator (3) Garven Dreis (26) Airen Cracken (21) Z-95 Headhunter (19), Swarm Tactics (2) Bandit Squadron Pilot (12) Just trying to use Corran, and in particular his doubling up on shooting. Being EXZZ, it's still got decent damage if the gimmicks don't pay off, and they're mutually usable (so if Corran gets off'd, it doesn't fall entirely to bits, as Garven/Airen/Swarm still has decent synergy) but it's a real struggle to get firepower in, and I'm really searching for how to make it pay off when compared to the basic XXBB usual option for 4-Ship Rebel.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:12
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Corral horn has proven useful in at least 1 major regional as an escort to a meaty falcon. Depending on how kitted out you want him, a 38 point corral with VI and FCS is fine if you downgrade Luke to a gunner. If you want the R2D2 you'll have to go with a Chewie.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:26
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Flechette keeps making me think. Rookies with a Flechette and Munitions Failsafe (or Blue Squads if you prefer B-Wings) might be a solid stress factory for a list.
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Jul 21, 2014 20:48
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Chill la Chill posted:Corral horn has proven useful in at least 1 major regional as an escort to a meaty falcon. Depending on how kitted out you want him, a 38 point corral with VI and FCS is fine if you downgrade Luke to a gunner. If you want the R2D2 you'll have to go with a Chewie. For maximum "gently caress you, attacking twice" potential on Corran, FCS + Marksmanship is hard to beat. Maybe: Han Solo + Marksmanship + Gunner + Chewbacca (crew) + Millennium Falcon (title) Corran Horn + Marksmanship + Fire Control System + R2 Astromech For 100 points. Edit: Played a couple rounds of this at the FLGS this afternoon. It is fun. Might drop the Falcon title and switch R2 to R7. overdesigned fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 21, 2014 21:30
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overdesigned posted:For maximum "gently caress you, attacking twice" potential on Corran, FCS + Marksmanship is hard to beat. I've been using something very similar to this for a while now too. Han with PtL Gunner and Falcon, then Corran Horn with R2-D2, Advanced Sensors and Marksmanship. When it works, it works really well. I'm always hesitant to fly only 2 ships, but as long as I save my double attack for a good moment, and don't hesitate to gently caress off with a Forward 5 to lazily turn around and regain shields away from the fight for a round or two, it works really well. I tend to loose the Falcon a bit more if I do that, but coming into the late game fights with a full strength PS8 E-Wing and all my opponents ships beat up from chasing my Falcon has been really cool. Also coming out of my K-turn with Marksmanship is hard to beat after a head-on merge. And I'd love to put marksman on my Falcon, but that 1 evade every turn from PtL is too hard for me to give up when I don't have C3-PO or Chewie.
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Jul 22, 2014 05:03
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I ended up playing two 50 point games last night, both of which I ran Chewbacca with Veteran Instincts and C3PO & R2D2 crew. It worked incredibly well for what it was supposed to do; namely continually regen a shield every round (meanwhile I had a 100% miss-rate on R2's facedown-to-faceup chance out of probably a dozen or more rolls) and survive a long time, which was awesome. What was less awesome was that the two games I played were against a single Boba Fett (Slave 1 title, Ion Cannon, Marksmanship, something else I'm forgetting), and a near mirror-match of a single Chewbacca (Falcon title, Nien Numb, C3PO, PtL). I lost both games; the Fett game he had 1 hull left when he killed me at range 1, because he got to shoot first even with my VI. The mirror match was one of the most amusing games I've played from a novelty perspective, but beyond that it was a major slog and not very interesting with it basically being a big sluggish joust since we both had the 360* firing option. PtL really did work for him, allowing him to maintain both a target lock and Evade fairly consistently, and the extra evade token plus the guaranteed 1 from 3PO made it a much, much slower battle for me to get damage through. By the end I think he had 6/8 hull left, so I was only about half way there after shields and such. Glad to be playing again though! We have 8 people signed up for this league, only 3 of which are Rebels. Hopefully next week I play someone with some squishy little TIEs and can clean house with the Chewy list. 
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Jul 22, 2014 12:55
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I'd love to try corral and Han together at some point but I don't think my local store's meta is right for it. There are a lot of meatier builds as anti-anti phantoms like double lambda and ties, triple lambda and a baron, double lambda and a phantom, or bounty hunters and a phantom. Just a lot of hit points that make it hard for Han to chew through. I'm still going to use Han tonight (weekly Tuesday tournaments) because I'm still not comfortable with my skills to deal with phantoms with my b's and golds. I think I have better chances with triple Z's right now since they can just pour out more damage every turn.
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Jul 22, 2014 13:45
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Corran absolutely murders Lambdas since he can get behind and stay behind them pretty easily. TIE swarms would be the Han + Corran's biggest problem, I think. To a lesser extent Firesprays, as well.
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Jul 22, 2014 14:48
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I'll give it a try, then. One thing I was always wary of was how easily the z-95s were killed and I wanted to try corral because of that. Get the same firepower and make sure it actually hits before it gets killed. I suppose I can downgrade Han to Chewie and run either VI/FCS/R2D2 or predator and R2D2. However, I've never ran an offensive e-wing before, only Ethan with b/z. Do I treat it like an a-wing?
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Jul 22, 2014 15:59
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Corran. With an N. Please.
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Jul 22, 2014 18:07
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Siivola posted:Marty Stu. With an M. Please. Fixed that for you. So I finally got a friend to play a game with me, ran Baron Fel+PTL, Delta Squadron+Ion Cannon, and two Alpha Squadron pilots. My friend threw together some weirdness with Tycho, Etahn, and two rookies. I smoked Etahn by turn 2 and lost a total of one squint the whole game. He folded after Rookie 2 was his only ship remaining, and that sort of killed his desire to continue. And I was really hoping for an Xwing buddy. 
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Jul 22, 2014 18:18
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SageNytell posted:Fixed that for you. You took the absolute best overall pilot in the game against a brand new player. Honestly, what did you expect?
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Jul 22, 2014 18:52
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SageNytell posted:Fixed that for you. Maybe you should have played a lovely squad vs a decent squad so he actually had time to get into the game. Y'know, before grinding him into the loving dust so hard he'll never touch a dial again. You, as the educated player, knowingly let him pick a disorganized squad vs one of the most OP pilot/upgrades in the game. Bravo. You sound like a oval office. midge fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 19:10
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This was the third game I had played, total. All three games have been, over the span of the last year, with this same guy. I am not at all an educated player, most of my knowledge comes from this thread and I have no practical knowledge of how these ships play. I have bought the ships as they've been released in the hopes of playing. I was not aware this was a dominating build, I just liked the way Fel is described by reputation from the Xwing books. poo poo, I thought Etahn was supposed to be really good. I thought I was screwed taking only one ship with shields. I suppose that was mistaken. Edit: Aren't the game-breaking builds Phantoms and Falcons? I don't see lists of squints being tossed around a lot in the thread. I wish I could get a better feel of the meta for this game, I was not trying to stomp my buddy. 
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Jul 22, 2014 19:42
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Soontir Fel is one of the best ships in the game. He's in nearly every Imperial list now. Etahn Abaht has a neat effect but is probably too many points.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:52
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Han with lots of upgrades lists and Fel with PtL are probably the two best ships in the game. Fel is probably less fun for someone who is inexperienced to play against, because unless you've got a turret, you'll almost never get to actually shoot at him thanks to his mobility. Han just blasts out reliable damage while giving no fucks about positioning, which is strong against elite, low model count lists, but lots less difficult to deal with. Phantoms (really, Whisper and Echo) are definitely very good, but they're extremely costly and fairly fragile. One bad turn of positioning and it's all over. While Fel can die just as easily, he gets Boost and Barrel roll after his normal move, which can often save him, where Phantoms need to mostly predict everything ahead of time. Fel is basically a noob stomping machine, and the only easy counter is catching him with Ion at the right time. Edit: Etahn is solid, with a great effect, but E-Wings are all too expensive for my taste. Rebels can't swarm as well, so his ability just isn't as good (also, it doesn't increase odds of hitting, so dodgy ships tend not to care).
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Jul 22, 2014 19:59
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alg posted:Soontir Fel is one of the best ships in the game. He's in nearly every Imperial list now. Etahn Abaht has a neat effect but is probably too many points. I thought he looked good but not that good, just super mobile. I wanted to try out squints and a defender so I built a list accordingly. We just both took turns grabbing my laptop and using one of the squad builders to throw together a 100 point list. I'm not even sure what he built onto Tycho or Etahn. Lesson learned, I guess. The first time we played back last spring I only had basic TIEs and Vader, and the time after that I ran two A-Wings and two Y-wings. This was my first time taking Interceptors for a ride after buying two solo ships and the Imp Aces. SageNytell fucked around with this message at 20:02 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:00
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SageNytell posted:This was the third game I had played, total. All three games have been, over the span of the last year, with this same guy. Your wording really didn't imply this scenario, I'll kinda take back my final comment. It's not game breaking per se, but Fel with PtL is one of the most difficult and frustrating combinations to deal with. It offers amazing action mobility with a high pilot skill (read : get out of arcs) and gives you a free focus for doing so to use during your attack. Combine that with one of the best dials in the game and you can run rings around a new player. Yes, Fel is a badass in the books and it's reflected here. Check out the X-Wing Rogue Squadron: In the Empire's Service graphic novels for Fel stories. Etahn is support. The ships he had to support sucked and he was an obvious first target priority for you. A more even, 1 on 1 matchup would have been Horn and Fel with some upgrades either side. Everyone is crying right now about Phantoms and Falcons. Not because they are inherently game breaking builds, but one begets the other and it's hosing the competitive meta game into a rock>scissors>paper situation. Leading most players to believe that if they don't run one build or the other they will not stand a chance in high level play. But that's exactly what it is, high level play. Don't worry about them. Play to have fun, which means making sure that both builds you are running have a equal chance on paper. That way you'll both be testing your asteroid placement, ability to read your opponent and maneuvering skills as opposed to it just being a wipe. midge fucked around with this message at 20:13 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:06
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Tycho is pretty much made for PtL so if he didn't have that he would not do well. I was thinking about a-wings again and read up on Jake Farrell and he also has an amazing 'made-for-Ptl' ability. For those who haven't seen it, he gains a free boost OR barrel-roll when he gets a focus, whatever the source. This makes him pretty much equivalent to Soontir, if not better, since if he had, for example, Kyle Katarn giving him focus he could do a focus to boost then receive a focus to barrel-roll (which isn't even an action the a-wing can normally do) then Ptl for a target lock or evade. Crazy. Additionally you could get prototype a-wing pilot to get another elite talent (marksmanship? Predator?). I really can't wait.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:13
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midge posted:Your wording really didn't imply this scenario, I'll kinda take back my final comment. Gotcha. He didn't really let me look at his build or offer advice, so I'm still not entirely sure what the ships were packing besides the pilots. I certainly hope the cost of my learning a lesson wasn't killing his desire to play the game, I had no desire to stomp him and I didn't even feel like things were seriously going wrong until about turn three or four. Since evidently my ability to gauge strength is off, does a tricked-out Vader with Engine Upgrade, Outmaneuver, and Cluster Missiles provide a similarly overpowering ship, or is that more in the realm of defeatable? SageNytell fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:15
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SageNytell posted:Since evidently my ability to gauge strength is off, does a tricked-out Vader with Engine Upgrade, Outmaneuver, and Cluster Missiles provide a similarly overpowering ship, or is that more in the realm of defeatable? You've made Vader into a bit of a points pinata. He's really not that hot, and cluster missiles will probably end up being a waste. Not knowing what you have it's hard to make recommendations. But my advise for players still getting to grips with the game would be a 3 X-Wing rebel build with named pilots vs a Firespray and some royal guard interceptors. Neither side has an overwhelming advantage with attack dice (3x3 per side) and it will come down to play style. All while being pretty fun. Interceptors and Firesprays are fun as poo poo to fly and an elite X-Wing team reeks of theme. midge fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:22
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I'll have to give that a try. As for what I've got - two of all the non-base small ships except the Defender, Z-95 and E-wing because my FLGS only had one each of those. Two base sets plus a TIE and Xwing expansion, one shuttle, one Firespray, one Falcon, and one Imp Aces set. I haven't bought the Rebel Transport though I've been eyeing it, and I don't think I'm going to grab the Blockade Runner. I keep buying sets, hoping to find some folks to play with. Sort of dumb of me, but I like collecting them and none of my friends are really into minis games. I'll have to try out that squad setup out if I can convince my buddy or my sister's boyfriend to play again. SageNytell fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:29
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Just read the French nationals report: http://whelpslayer.wordpress.com/2014/07/20/x-wing-french-national-championships-rundown-and-lists/ Looks like it isn't all doom and gloom with the falcon vs phantom builds after all. I love seeing blue chews and good old dual falcons on there.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:38
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Tekopo posted:Tycho is pretty much made for PtL so if he didn't have that he would not do well. I am reeeeally looking forward to Rebel Aces for him, and for buffing regular A-Wings too. Jake with PtL, Chardaan, Test Pilot, and probably Outmaneuver. He'll be able to Focus - Boost/Barrel - Push into TL or Boost (if he didn't already). TL + Focus + Outmaneuver will help overcome the 2 attack, and he's only 28 points built like that. Greens with PtL and Outmaneuver or Predator with Chardaan seem good as well, only 23 points.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:41
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I'd argue that Tycho is better than Fel, since he has 4 HP (two of which are shields) and he can use PtL even when stressed. Anyway, on that French nationals article: quote:Of note was the prize given to the top 16: giant versions of Boba Fett’s Firespray card that were signed by Jeremy Bulloch, the Actor that portrayed Fett in episode V and VI! This is super cool and  .
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Jul 22, 2014 21:10
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The Gate posted:I am reeeeally looking forward to Rebel Aces for him, and for buffing regular A-Wings too. Jake with PtL, Chardaan, Test Pilot, and probably Outmaneuver. He'll be able to Focus - Boost/Barrel - Push into TL or Boost (if he didn't already). TL + Focus + Outmaneuver will help overcome the 2 attack, and he's only 28 points built like that.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:23
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I'm liking the idea of Rebel Aces.code:Yes I do like to make my Bs as expensive as your average YT-1300, why do you ask? Mostly I'm considering which is better; Marksman on Ten Numb w. 3PO for that Evade guarantee, or just dump marksman, get a mercenary copilot and spend more on Tycho and Jake's elite pilot skills.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:29
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I think 3PO on a b-wing is a waste. The reason it works so well on the falcon is the evade action you take with it. There might be a synergy with Ibtisam but I don't see why Ten would want it.
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Jul 22, 2014 22:05
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A guaranteed 1-evade on every defense roll with a B-wing is hardly a waste, but objectively speaking I'd probably be better off with a merc copilot on that build. And super objectively speaking I should probably be taking Keyan Farlander instead of Ten Numb, then putting Outmaneuver on both A pilots on top of PTL, for something closer to this; code:But then I wouldn't have a silly heavy laser cannon build at all and that won't do. Either way, though, Rebel Aces looks to be pretty exciting.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:37
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