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Ilanin posted:I just don't find this to be true at all. My first MP game after the first 25 turns I was taking an hour per turn easily, (two-thirds diplomacy one-third movement); and for the final 20 turns or so at least two and maybe three hours. For this reason I've not really been interested in playing another one, especially given that saxophone made it very clear quite how far removed I am from being even approximately good at the game. I don't know, maybe some decisions become more automatic with practice, but I certainly don't have anything like time to play the game regularly at the amount of effort it takes me. You won saxophone though? I'd also say you were the only other major power besides me after the midgame so I'm not sure why you think this. Sure there were a lot of newer players in the game but you were as well so you definitely did good? You really don't need to spend that long on diplo either, you can get by fine just sending people messages when you need something from them.
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Jul 15, 2014 18:23
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I tend to take about 10-20 minutes a turn in most games but I'm also very good at remembering whatever the hell it was I was doing.
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Jul 15, 2014 19:03
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I Love You! posted:I tend to take about 10-20 minutes a turn in most games but I'm also very good at remembering whatever the hell it was I was doing. I'm not, and it still generally takes that long. Plus, you don't have to take your turn all at once, if life things happen, just get up, do your thing, and your pixel mans will wait for your return. The game is miles better in mp, I would seriously try it out. If you decide you can't continue, you can let another player sub in or go AI (former is better if you're not about to die).
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Jul 16, 2014 11:57
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I Love You! posted:Well, the main issue with Dom over Civ singleplayer is that the "tech tree" in dom4 really has no use against an opponent that is also not teching (which the CPU doesn't know how to do intelligently and probably never could). On top of that since the CPU doesn't do much outside of mass basic troops and attack everywhere, you basically are forced into playing the game in a specific way that supercedes most of the fun stuff you actually might bother doing. Does the AI in Dom at least remember to dispel foreign globals? Or can you do something silly like casting BOT and win unopposed? (I do remember making several AIs completely helpless just by plaing Lemuria with something like a death 10 pretender with death 3 scales. Every province I took was effectively lost forever. AI armies trying to take them back just evaporated in the empty wastelands I created.)
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Jul 16, 2014 12:16
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Libluini posted:Does the AI in Dom at least remember to dispel foreign globals? Or can you do something silly like casting BOT and win unopposed?
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Jul 16, 2014 12:48
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jBrereton posted:To be fair that is an accurate representation of what can happen if everyone doesn't club together and beat the poo poo out of you as Lemuria, since there aren't that many N2+ mages around to make supply gear. It's just an additional tax for attacking the undead, and it forces you to divert some early research to Construction instead of more useful things.
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Jul 16, 2014 15:19
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Libluini posted:Does the AI in Dom at least remember to dispel foreign globals? Or can you do something silly like casting BOT and win unopposed? I don't think so. Undead nations break the game against AI in particular.
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Jul 16, 2014 16:35
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Back To 99 posted:This looks cool, but i can't really commit to multiplayer games. Is this like civ, paradox games or total war where you can play singleplayer against the AI without missing any content or the true experience of the game? I've been playing it single player because I am too flaky/busy to really do an MP game. It's a lot of fun, even if it feels more like a cross between Master of Magic and a Tower Defense game - the AI spawns huge armies of lame units and I get to take them apart using cleverness and (magically buffed conans)/(piles of roman zombies)/(aztec demons)/(swarms of midgets with flaming arrows)/whatever. The AI isn't much better than the original Master of Magic from the 90s, but that's fine for my purposes.
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Jul 16, 2014 18:24
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I'm trying very hard to play Marignon in any era without dying in 10 turns. Expansion is hard. Thanks guys for suggesting mass fire arrows. It worked better than I thought it would. amuayse fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 21:12
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amuayse posted:I'm trying very hard to play Marignon in any era without dying in 10 turns. Expansion is hard. Do you have an awake SC? Do that.
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Jul 16, 2014 21:35
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No, but I had PD and flaming arrows which did the trick. I also learned that the giant wolfmans of the MA don't turn into giant wolfs despite wearing a wolf pelt. They just die.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 21:44 on Jul 16, 2014 |
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Jul 16, 2014 21:38
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On the plus side if you can survive the early game as LA marig you are a super dangerous motherfucker. MA marig, still just as hosed. But hey, you did it!
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Jul 17, 2014 01:11
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Bug Squash posted:One of my commanders was diseased, limping and had lost both eyes before GoH healed him. I'm reluctant to send him back to the fray after walking that off like a champ. I know it's from the last page, but you can get a pretty impressive list of afflictions if you take a really tough sacred unit like a Van or a Niefel Giant and give it a strong Nature bless to keep it from ever dying.  
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Jul 20, 2014 20:01
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Jabarto posted:I know it's from the last page, but you can get a pretty impressive list of afflictions if you take a really tough sacred unit like a Van or a Niefel Giant and give it a strong Nature bless to keep it from ever dying. And despite all of that he can still do what a niefel giant needs to do without a problem. Nuclearmonkee fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Jul 20, 2014 |
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Jul 20, 2014 21:49
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amuayse posted:No, but I had PD and flaming arrows which did the trick. I also learned that the giant wolfmans of the MA don't turn into giant wolfs despite wearing a wolf pelt. They just die. Yeah, flaming arrows are still good against giants--rumors of their nerfing are greatly exaggerated. PS: thanks for killing all my giants.
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Jul 21, 2014 07:02
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Nuclearmonkee posted:And despite all of that he can still do what a niefel giant needs to do without a problem. Die?
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Jul 21, 2014 07:44
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Kitfox88 posted:Die? stand in front of a mage and be cold
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Jul 21, 2014 13:39
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Kitfox88 posted:Die? The opposite of that.
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Jul 21, 2014 14:42
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With Def4 and Prot20 he will be a good meat wall, but with expiration date.
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Jul 21, 2014 14:52
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Turin Turambar posted:With Def4 and Prot20 he will be a good meat wall, but with expiration date. He is a niffle giant so presumably he has a n9 bless on him, there is no reason to not take an n9 bless with niffle giants.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:10
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He's regenerating more hp per turn than many troops ever had in the first place.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:15
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Right, he might have 21hp now, but it's going to tick back up in battle.
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Jul 21, 2014 15:21
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Right, I always forget disease can be regened away to a degree in battle.
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Jul 21, 2014 18:09
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Kitfox88 posted:Right, I always forget disease can be regened away to a degree in battle. Ironically so long as he gets into a fight at least once every few turns to regen his hp back he can live almost indefinitely with disease.
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Jul 21, 2014 19:16
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What are the cheapest spells to force a battle in your province, thinking about it? Send (Lesser) Horror, I guess? Phantasmal Attack? Are those the only two?
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Jul 21, 2014 19:36
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jBrereton posted:What are the cheapest spells to force a battle in your province, thinking about it? Also ghost riders and the new caelum one that sends terrible poo poo like villains and a couple of flying guys.
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Jul 21, 2014 22:21
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Movement question for people who know this stuff way better than me: Let's say my enemy has an army defending province A, and he's moving a 2nd army into it this turn (defensive movement). If I cloud trapeze/teleport an SC into province A, and he wins the ensuing battle, will my opponent's 2nd army still continue their movement order and attack province A? Or will their movement order just get cancelled?
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Jul 22, 2014 18:18
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TheresNoThyme posted:Movement question for people who know this stuff way better than me: Your SC will fight only the army that's already in A, and after that's resolved, your opponent's 2nd army will move to the province and fight your SC in a second battle.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:01
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Flame112 posted:Your SC will fight only the army that's already in A, and after that's resolved, your opponent's 2nd army will move to the province and fight your SC in a second battle. Following on from this: does this hold if the moving army is more than one province away? Also, what happens if an army is defensive moving across three provinces and the SC teleports into the middle province? Also, if there are two Super Combatants, one of which always tells the truth, one of which always lies...
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Jul 22, 2014 19:36
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From the manual: Turn resolution sequence All players’ turn orders are resolved simultaneously when a turn is hosted. During the hosting process, the game resolves orders in the following order: 1. Send messages Messages sent by using the Send Messages button are dispatched. This means that gold, gems, and items are always sent, because everything that could stop this from happening occurs later in the turn. 2. Research Mages perform their research. Even if a mage is assassinated or otherwise killed, he will contribute his research points to his nation that turn. 3. Empowerment Increased magic paths due to Empowerment are conferred here. 4. Recruitment New units and commanders are recruited. This means that recruits will always be available during the turn, as nothing that happens beforehand can stop them. 5. Forge items New items are forged and placed in their nation’s magic item inventory. 6. Preach Priests preach the word of their god, and dominion is adjusted accordingly. 7. Heretic preaching Heretics, insane commanders and commanders with shattered soul preach. 8. Claim thrones Thrones of Ascension are claimed now. 9. Magic rituals All mages cast their rituals in a random order. 10. Magic battles All battles caused by magic are resolved. For example, commanders taken away by Wind Ride or teleporting to an enemy province fight now. 11. Lost in other planes If a unit becomes lost in another plane, it happens now. This includes resolving battles fought in other planes. 12. Site searches Magic site searches are resolved. 13. Prophets Prophets are declared. 14. Call God Priests call their gods who have been banished. 15. Awakening Pretenders awaken (dormant or imprisoned) 16. Blood hunting The hunt for blood slaves takes place. 17. Horrors Units are visited by Horrors now, if such a misfortune should befall them. 18. Assassinations Assassination attempts are resolved. The battles are fought immediately. 19. Raid Units with the Raid order perform that here. 20. Relinquish province Commanders with the Relinquish Province order will relinquish the province to any non-stealthed allied commander already present in the same province. 21. Friendly movement All movement ending in a friendly province takes place now. If you are trying to get to a friendly province before an enemy does, you will do it if you are not stopped by an event that takes place in steps 1 through 11. 22. Other movement All other movement, including Break Siege, takes place. 23. Resolve battles All battle resolution from movement happens here. 24. Castle storming Castles are stormed and battles resolved. 25. Global enchantments Global enchantments take effect on the world. Note that the casting takes place during the Rituals step (9), though. 26. Random events Like it says. This is where those Fortune/Misfortune events happen. 27. Resolve any battles Battles caused by these events happen now. 28. Magic items/monsters Special effects from magic items (or monsters) take place. The items themselves are forged during the Forge step (5), though. If any of these effects result in any battles, they are resolved now. 29. Sneak discovery Stealthy units have been discovered! If so, they fight now for their lives. 30. Change besieger If two allies are besieging the same castle, the one who is besieging is decided now. Larger armies take precedence. 31. Building construction Fortresses, temples, and labs are built (or demolished). 32. Special orders Special order like Reanimate or Summon Allies are performed. Thus, allies summoned during a turn will not be available for that turn’s battles. 33. Pillage The Pillage order increases unrest and kills population. 34. Income All nations collect income for their provinces. Note that this comes after Pillage, meaning that if you pillage a province you conquered, you will gain reduced income from it, or perhaps no income at all. 35. Unrest alterations Changes in unrest from dominion, scales, and patrolling are reflected. 36. Starvation Units without supplies suffer starvation effects. This means that the first turn an army goes without supplies, it will fight its battles without starvation effects, since all battles occur in previous steps. 37. Upkeep / Desertion Unit upkeep is paid for. Note that this is after income is collected for the turn. Desertion happens now as well. 38. Dominion spread All dominion spread (for whatever reason) is conducted now. 39. Dominion effects Special effects of dominion (population death, insanity, spreading heat or cold etc.) are applied. 40. Site effects Magic sites spread disease, unrest, and the like, if they have such an effect. 41. Overpopulation A rare occurrence: if there are over 150,000 units in the world, some of the most numerous ones will be killed to keep the game running smoothly. 42. Aging Units age. 43. Resolve battles Any leftover battles caused by previous events are resolved. 44. Heal / Disease All units regain lost hit points, unless they are diseased, in which case they suffer more damage instead and may incur more afflictions. 45. Insanity Units may go insane, from certain dominion or other effects. 46. Mercenaries Mercenaries are bought or maintained. 47. New random heroes Heroes may appear at a nation's capital gates. 48. Kill lone units Lone units (non-commanders) in enemy provinces are killed. If there are units without commanders inside enemy territory they will be killed here to prevent them from making any pointless attacks. 49. Reclaim provinces If a fort does not own the province it is in and it is not under siege, it will take ownership of the province. This can happen in team games where the province and the fort might have different owners from the same team. This step is resolved in favor of the owner of the fort. 50. Scouting New scouting reports are generated for each player. 51. Elimination Players without any provinces or dominion are eliminated from the game. 52. Victory If a victory condition is fulfilled, the game declares a winner and ends. 53. Update stats Hall of Fame and scoregraphs are updated. 54. Heroic abilities Units gain and improve heroic abilities. 55. Reduce PD Province defense is reduced if the population cannot support the current level. At least 10 population is required for each point of province defense. 56. Aftermath The game validates orders and items, changes shapes if necessary, places killed immortals back on the map, etc. This should answer most questions about what happens when.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:12
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Bug Squash posted:Also, what happens if an army is defensive moving across three provinces and the SC teleports into the middle province? If the army could have taken multiple routes to get to where they were going, I wouldn't be surprised if the game decides that they sometimes end up missing the SC by taking one of the other routes. If there was only one route, the SC should intercept them.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:19
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ChickenWing posted:This should answer most questions about what happens when. I've read the turn order documentation and it was still unclear. "If you are trying to get to a friendly province before an enemy does, you will do it if you are not stopped by an event that takes place in steps 1 through 11." It says that you can be "stopped" which is what confused me Flame112 posted:Your SC will fight only the army that's already in A, and after that's resolved, your opponent's 2nd army will move to the province and fight your SC in a second battle. Not to pile on, but I guess this could be used for a cool trap where your SC takes over A, you move an army onto A (per your explanation, this will count as defensive movement if the SC wins) and then your full army gets to fight the enemy's reinforcements in a defensive battle, probably when he wasn't expecting his army to be split in half. I'll have to give it a test in a hotseat game sometime TheresNoThyme fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Jul 22, 2014 |
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Jul 22, 2014 20:44
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A reminder here that spells which change temperature cause events to happen, and so take place after battles.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:29
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TheresNoThyme posted:I've read the turn order documentation and it was still unclear. "If you are trying to get to a friendly province before an enemy does, you will do it if you are not stopped by an event that takes place in steps 1 through 11." It says that you can be "stopped" which is what confused me If you want to move from A to C and the only way to get there is to go through B then someone can port in and take B find stop your army from moving in regular movement.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:35
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jBrereton posted:A reminder here that spells which change temperature cause events to happen, and so take place after battles. Yeah, this is the single most annoying thing in Dom4. It makes those spells nearly useless.
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Jul 23, 2014 03:50
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e:TheresNoThyme posted:Movement question for people who know this stuff way better than me: If the enemy's movement order is still legal after you own province A, then the 2nd army will move. If it becomes illegal, then it will not move. For example, if the enemy's 2nd army is in an adjacent province, then it's legal to move 1 province to an enemy province, and it will move. If the enemy's army is 2 provinces away and does not have flying or sailing, then it is not legal to move 2 provinces to an enemy province, and it will not move. FnF posted:If the army could have taken multiple routes to get to where they were going, I wouldn't be surprised if the game decides that they sometimes end up missing the SC by taking one of the other routes. If there was only one route, the SC should intercept them. If one of the routes remains open, the army will move to their destination and will never encounter the SC. It's the same logic as retreat routes: if you take 2 out of 3 provinces that someone could retreat to, 100% of their retreating forces will end up in the third province. builds character posted:If you want to move from A to C and the only way to get there is to go through B then someone can port in and take B find stop your army from moving in regular movement. Note that if someone is moving from A to C and going through B as the only way to get there, and you teleport and take B during the magic phase, the army simply does not move. It does not fight the SC in B. Note also that sieging a fort with a teleport won't stop the army from moving out of the fort into another province in the regular phase for some reason, unless that bug was quietly fixed when I wasn't looking. TheDemon fucked around with this message at 04:25 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 04:20
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It's usually not too big of a deal, but is worth noting that a teleporting unit will always go inside of a besieged fort, there's no way to make them attack the sieging armor through magic movement.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:50
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Well, you can teleport on top of enemy forts. You can only teleport inside of friendly ones.
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Jul 23, 2014 04:52
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I believe all magical movement to friendly forts will pop you inside the fort; it's actually more useful this way most of the time since you can use it to teleport in mages\sc's for co-ordinated counterattacks with normal armies but it's only more useful this way if you know it works like this.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:23
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TheDemon posted:Well, you can teleport on top of enemy forts. You can only teleport inside of friendly ones. A drat shame, all things considered. Here's hoping for the next patch
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Jul 23, 2014 08:24
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