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Ronwayne posted:But yeah, its mostly because bad emotions are stronger than good emotions in that universe. And while people say "oh yeah lots of planets, lots of differences", pretty much every imperial is portrayed as a bullet-making GBS threads hardass or a head-tubed abused drone. And, of course, those who aren't running that factory have the hilariously stupid plan to kill and collect the souls of most of their own race to hopefully create a Death God that can kill the first God. Come winter, the gorillas will just freeze to death.
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Jul 19, 2014 06:37
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The god of virtues is the holy Emperor you twice damned heretics!
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Jul 19, 2014 07:46
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Tell us about the Emperor's 1488 virtues Riso.
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Jul 19, 2014 08:17
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Riso posted:The god of virtues is the holy Emperor you twice damned heretics! The Emperor is the god of Man, nothing says he is a god of virtues. At best, he's a god of hatred, given how the ecclesiarchy views anything that isn't utterly obedient to themselves...
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Jul 19, 2014 08:37
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Unzip and Attack posted:I have a lore question for you guys. The Ruinous Powers exist because they are concentrated negative emotions. Is there any explanation or are there any theories as to why there are no Righteous Powers to mirror the evil ones (mercy, love, justice, etc)? Or is the Emperor supposed to fill that role? The Emperor and most of the Eldar Gods represented manifestations of Order, but they have been mostly killed or captured, thus everything being awful. There used to be Gods of Law and daemon-like things as well but that hasn't been printed in ages http://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/God_of_Law They're neat though because they're no more good or wholesome than Chaos quote:Alluminas is the master of light, an everlasting and unchanging source of pure light, which is said to render unmoving and changeless anything it illuminates. He is probably the least popular of the Gods of Law, as the bulk of the concepts involved in his worship are beyond human comprehension. Also arguably the four remaining C'Tan are Gods of Law. With the Nightbringer being passionless death as opposed to Khorne, Void Dragon being technology and freedom from the physical body and opposed to Nurgle. It gets a bit more of a stretch from there but The Outsider being about madness is the opposite of Tzeentch's scheming and maybe the Deceiver is the opposite of Slaanesh somehow? Maybe trickery is the opposite of satisfaction. Karandras fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Jul 19, 2014 |
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Jul 19, 2014 10:05
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Karandras posted:The Emperor and most of the Eldar Gods represented manifestations of Order, but they have been mostly killed or captured, thus everything being awful. The Law God thing seems kinda half baked in that incarnation, though.
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Jul 19, 2014 18:30
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FireSight posted:The Emperor is the god of Man, nothing says he is a god of virtues. At best, he's a god of hatred, given how the ecclesiarchy views anything that isn't utterly obedient to themselves... You're forgetting the emperor would have been totally opposed to the ecclesiarchy and all religion in general. Don't soil the man - gods reputation by linking him to that damned cult.
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Jul 19, 2014 18:34
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Werix posted:You're forgetting the emperor would have been totally opposed to the ecclesiarchy and all religion in general. The dude who was the Emperor and the entity sitting on the throne aren't really the same thing anymore. Worship of the emperor has essentially made him more than he was. Also, yeah, I miss all the old fluff where Law gods existed and Chaos had more depth.
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Jul 19, 2014 19:08
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Werix posted:You're forgetting the emperor would have been totally opposed to the ecclesiarchy and all religion in general. Primarily because he knew Gods existed. That's my favorite part of Big E's little 'rationalist' side. He wasn't doing it because he didn't believe in Gods, he was doing it because he did, and they were assholes.
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Jul 19, 2014 19:28
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Night10194 posted:Primarily because he knew Gods existed. That's my favorite part of Big E's little 'rationalist' side. He wasn't doing it because he didn't believe in Gods, he was doing it because he did, and they were assholes. The other part of that was if man didn't worship the chaos gods, they'd loose their power. Like 99% of the chaos gods power base is man.
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Jul 19, 2014 21:09
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Werix posted:The other part of that was if man didn't worship the chaos gods, they'd loose their power. Like 99% of the chaos gods power base is man. Except that's bullshit, because man WORSHIPPING them isn't what gives them power - man doing the things that they live off is - so unless man stopped warring, Khorne would keep gaining power from man's wars, etc etc.
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Jul 19, 2014 22:03
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I think it's always fair to remember the Emperor had terrible judgment and pretty much everything he tried to do ended in miserable failure due to his hubris and dickishness.
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Jul 19, 2014 22:06
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thespaceinvader posted:Except that's bullshit, because man WORSHIPPING them isn't what gives them power - man doing the things that they live off is - so unless man stopped warring, Khorne would keep gaining power from man's wars, etc etc. Not necessarily. They eat souls, just like the emperor does. SOULS are the main source of their power, and there seem to be rules on which souls they can claim. Usually the race that spawned them (see Slaanesh) and dedicated worshipers. Slaanesh doesn't get to claim the frat boy who sleeps around a ton and then gets killed in a drunken car crash. Sure, he's totally into sex drugs and partying, but he's not soul-damning level.
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Jul 20, 2014 00:14
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thespaceinvader posted:Except that's bullshit, because man WORSHIPPING them isn't what gives them power - man doing the things that they live off is - so unless man stopped warring, Khorne would keep gaining power from man's wars, etc etc. Those emotions are what gives the Ruinous a powers some of their essence but without occult ritual they have a hard time entering the real world, so partial credit there I guess to the Emperor. I'm sure space marines and the great crusade were excellent for the four, Khorne especially
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Jul 20, 2014 02:13
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One of my players decided to roll a Khorne Berserker. He's pretty new to the system, so I just told him that the most appropriate thing to do would be to spend all his experience buying Hatred talents.
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Jul 20, 2014 16:49
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Relevant to your khornate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kc9f-VVQK3k
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Jul 20, 2014 18:10
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Hey there. I'm planning to run a 40k game (system still undecided, but possibly Only War or Rogue Trader, since they seem to be really polished). How hard is it to teach this (and to learn it, as a GM) to players who are only used to D&D? I'm pretty deep into 40k lore, but they barely know the franchise, but are kinda tempted to try it.
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Jul 22, 2014 03:23
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Azran posted:Hey there. I'm planning to run a 40k game (system still undecided, but possibly Only War or Rogue Trader, since they seem to be really polished). How hard is it to teach this (and to learn it, as a GM) to players who are only used to D&D? I'm pretty deep into 40k lore, but they barely know the franchise, but are kinda tempted to try it. D&D is a million times more complicated than 40k. If they are used to a combat system Only War might be easier since it supports that. Rogue Trader might blow their mind as they are handed 100,000 or so people who work for them off the bat. You as a GM need to be aware that the problems and encounters you present in Rogue Trader cant be solved by the players simply glassing the planet from orbit or deploying a 1000 troopers to do what you need. Only War is a lot easier in terms of GMing since you can just have a superior officer tell the players what they are doing and send them off. Rogue Trader definitely benefits from the players being creative and greedy though so if you have those kinds of people then thats a lot of fun too.
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Jul 22, 2014 03:33
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Azran posted:Hey there. I'm planning to run a 40k game (system still undecided, but possibly Only War or Rogue Trader, since they seem to be really polished). How hard is it to teach this (and to learn it, as a GM) to players who are only used to D&D? I'm pretty deep into 40k lore, but they barely know the franchise, but are kinda tempted to try it. I was also an old D&D/Pathfinder player before learning this system myself and it is an easier system. OW or RT would be good picks. I first played RT with a group that knew NOTHING about 40k and it went good, since because it takes place outside of the Imperium, the players didn't have to know about all the various factions and history and poo poo. Just make it grim-dark star trek.
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Jul 22, 2014 04:13
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Werix posted:Just make it grim-dark star trek. Murderhobo star-trek works well. Because despite being the richest people in hundreds of lightyears, you could always be slightly richer.
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Jul 22, 2014 04:19
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I find making characters to be more and more of a headche lately. How do thw Tau do interstellar communications? X-Boat network? Or some spooky Ethereal stuff? Do they know how the Imperium uses Astropaths, or what do they know about Psykers in general? I know they aren't psyker, uh, -ic, but what do they know about other factions?
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Jul 22, 2014 18:49
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They have other races working for them who have psykers, including humans, so they likely have FTL communications working that way.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:00
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Hand waved. Because it raises far too many questions about even simple things like in-system time lag between ships and planets and things. Then there are things like how does the Imperium send information long distances? As speech? Strings of encoded characters? Binary? None of that seems very efficient if it's being done at human speed. For pictures, do they just describe the mental image they receive? Do astropaths all have to take three years of life drawing before they're allowed to operate as a fax machine?
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Jul 22, 2014 19:12
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It's not very consistent in the lore, but yea, in at least a couple versions Astropaths can't directly send spoken messages, they have to broadcast mental images to each other which the receiver has to interpret into an actual message. There is a complicated system of symbols that they use to put together their messages, and more powerful Astropaths are more skilled at transmitting/receiving complexities and therefore can manage more detail and information in a transmission. If the Imperium wants to send a bunch of detailed information, they literally write it all down and put it on a ship (or possibly encode it in something so that a dataslate can access it, but seriously lots of places literally write it down). Astropaths aren't capable of transmitting the volume of information in your tithe audit or grain production summary, they are used for sending short, important communications that are critical or someone with power/money really wants to happen.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:36
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Tau are described as extensively using dedicated messenger ships in both their original Codex and in Battlefleet Gothic.
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Jul 22, 2014 19:38
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Seems like they can jury-rig a solution, but that the tech is bulky and slovenly: http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau_Fleet#.U863pPmSx1E
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Jul 22, 2014 20:13
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Ashcans posted:If the Imperium wants to send a bunch of detailed information, they literally write it all down and put it on a ship (or possibly encode it in something so that a dataslate can access it, but seriously lots of places literally write it down). Astropaths aren't capable of transmitting the volume of information in your tithe audit or grain production summary, they are used for sending short, important communications that are critical or someone with power/money really wants to happen. That's basically how I assume it all works, that there are whole chartarist dynasties dedicated solely to bringing hard copies of information like reports, wanted person bulletins, etc across the Imperium.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:21
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I like the techpriest solution of servitorizing a bunch of astropaths and rigging them to broadcast to each other constantly to make sure their link is established. Then when a message is needed to be transmitted they spam binary signals instead of their normal broadcast and every astropath they normally transmit it to records it. This burns through psykers at an extremely fast rate so only important people tend to get this setup. Essentially the Mechanicum can use astropaths as modems.
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Jul 23, 2014 00:48
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That seems more like conspicuous consumption than anything useful  You're burning through a bunch of astropaths to do...the same thing as regular astropaths, but with edit That's not to say conspicuous consumption isn't a totally valid explanation.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:19
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Rockopolis posted:That seems more like conspicuous consumption than anything useful While yea it burns through resources your also getting constant streams of data being transferred (relatively) instantly over massively huge distances which is virtually impossible any other way.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:57
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Also, there is the possibility (not explained properly) that the method may actually bypass the need for Astropath-mindfuck-symbol-to-gothic translation, meaning the Mechanicum approach reduces message corruption.
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Jul 23, 2014 12:48
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I guess I have a hard time seeing it working, what with the nature of the Warp and Psyker powers and burnout and all.  On the other hand, it does make me think of a funny comparison to IP Over Avian Carriers Anyway, I'm busy working up a Salamanders Apothecary, starting at Rank 2, for a game of Deathwatch. Any advice? I'm guessing that the usual combat recommendation is to grab a Thunder Hammer with the upgrade that lets it set things on fire? Is there a way I can use a jump pack before Rank 3 (I think that's when Pilot is available)? I totally like the idea of a Para-Apothecary zipping around the battlefield ("Health from above!"), and it'll be great for getting into hammer/flamer range. Plus as a Salamander I can totally be swooping around, yelling and burning dudes.
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Jul 23, 2014 18:35
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I don't think it works at all; if you could choose to broadcast a binary string, why couldn't you just broadcast a text string (and therefore a normal message) instead? If a bunch of stripped-down servitors can do that, why wouldn't actual Astropaths (who have far more skill) be able to transmit in the same way? This is to say nothing of how questionable it is to servitor-ize Astropaths in the first place - Astropaths aren't just random psykers you dig up, they are powerful psykers who are carefully selected and trained by the Telepathica and survive the soul-binding. You can't just scoop up a bunch and turn them into servitors without probably committing several different brands of heresy right off the bat. As a DM I would probably not allow servitor-psykers in the first place, because it seems like mulching someone's brains to turn them into a servitor would screw up their knowledge and ability to control the warp to begin with.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:09
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Forgive my lack of lore knowledge (yet again) but is an Astropath absolutely required for warp travel? I suppose what I mean is, does literally every warp-capable ship in the Imperium have an astropath aboard?
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Jul 23, 2014 19:36
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Unzip and Attack posted:Forgive my lack of lore knowledge (yet again) but is an Astropath absolutely required for warp travel? I suppose what I mean is, does literally every warp-capable ship in the Imperium have an astropath aboard? No, there are ways to travel in very short jumps by computer, it's just it takes forever compared to a Navigator equipped ship. Similarly, most vessels do not have Astropaths, only vessels that might need to make priority reports like scout ships, Inquisitorial vessels, or Rogue Traders, who even if they don't need one will buy one because why not? I have all the money.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:40
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IIRC you only need an astropath to do interstellar communications. If you are exploring unknown regions AKA Rogue Trader then you need a Navigator to help you find your way.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:41
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Unzip and Attack posted:Forgive my lack of lore knowledge (yet again) but is an Astropath absolutely required for warp travel? I suppose what I mean is, does literally every warp-capable ship in the Imperium have an astropath aboard? Astropaths are psykers who can send mighty telepathic messages through the Warp, but they aren't strictly necessary for Warp travel (though I can't think of a ship that wouldn't have at least one, most have an entire Astropathic Choir). Navigators, mutants dating back to the Dark Age of Technology, are absolutely necessary for any Warp travel, because they are the only ones capable of sensing the chaos of the Warp because of their third eye. Navigators aren't technically psykers, though.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:42
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Astropaths only send messages - the psykers that are used for Warp travel are Navigators, who are basically a particular kind of (probably created) mutant. And no, you can actually make warp jumps without a Navigator, but it makes it a lot more difficult to do. Basically, a Navigator can see the warp and can plot and pilot a course through it, allowing them to make long trips and adjust their heading on the fly. Without a Navigator, you have to use a cogitator to calculate your warp jump and then hope for the best. This basically limits you to stable/known warp routes. Without a Navigator you also have to break up the trip into lots of short hops so that you can land, check where you are, program a new jump, and hop along - if you try making a longer jump, any errors or changes in the warp will almost certainly throw you far off course. This means that there may be small ships running very short or safe routes that do not have Navigators, but they would be something like Chartists running the same little stretch between two neighboring systems (or similar) Almost any full-size ship that wants to be able to pick a path will have a Navigator on board. There are some rules for jumping without a Navigator in Rogue Trader (not sure if its a supplement) but its not something you want to do a lot.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:43
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Thanks for the info. I was confusing astropaths and navigators. I assume navigators are extremely rare and therefore an insanely expensive and/or unavailable commodity?
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Jul 23, 2014 20:24
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Got a fluff question for my gaming group's Rogue Trader session this week: is there any detail about the Promethean Cult of Nocturne and how it relates to the Ecclesiarchy? One of the PCs in the gaming group is from Nocturne, a veteran of an Imperial Guard auxiliary unit to the Salamanders, and she's going to be involved in a religious ceremony involving both traditional Ecclesiarchal beliefs and the Promethean Cult, and I'm looking around for any existing information on the Promethean Cult before I start making stuff up.
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Jul 23, 2014 20:44
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