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Wow, Abe Goldfarb really sounds like… Abe Goldfarb. For all those characters. And that's a terrible english accent, god drat.
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Jul 24, 2014 12:04
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Hahahaha, yeah, he really does - and that accent is awful  But hey, it's hard to deny that he's got a certain charm.
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Jul 24, 2014 12:29
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Update 18 Yesterday, Rosa and Joey learned that Jim Peebles, the senior producer at the Channel 11 Newsroom, had enjoyed Heather's services back in the day. It's a safe bet that he wrote the note we found in Tanya's apartment claiming to "know about Heather." The question is, how do Heather and Tanya's stories meet up? Let's find out.  Channel 11 Newsroom  Rosa emerges from the elevator, and immediately bears down on Jim with an accusation.  Sorry? I know who Heather is, and what she did for a living. I also know that you... procured her services. There was a note in Tanya's apartment that said "I know about Heather." It was signed "J."Flustered with the sudden intrusion, Jim is unsure how to respond. That could have been anybody. Do you really expect me to believe that now?Finally, Jim's facade cracks.  *sigh* No I don't. Tell me about your involvement with Heather. Looks like we're finally getting somewhere. Working the late shift, sleeping during the day. Who has time for a social life? So yes. I found... other ways... to meet my needs. Heather was one of them. I'm not proud of it, but I make no excuses for it either. You said it was twenty-five years ago. So you stopped seeing her? She quit the business. I didn't know what happened to her, until she walked in that door. Wait... seriously? Heather and Tanya are, what. The same person? Tanya? The name was different. The hair was different. The whole attitude was different... but I knew. Wait a minute. Let me get this straight. Heather and Tanya are the same person?That's a new one, for sure. Jim is surprised at Rosa's question. You didn't know? Isn't that what all this is about? She reinvented herself. Changed her looks. Got a gig as a weather girl. Worked her way up to this newsroom... Worked here for years and never knew who I was. Until I told her. Until you blackmailed her, you mean. I saw an opportunity and I took it. So I wrote her that note. I threatened to expose her past.Jim is getting pretty worked up here. I didn't know what to expect, but I didn't expect her to go home and... for that to happen! They said she fell in the shower because she was drunk. But she was only drunk because of me. So what now?Poor dude sounds depressed and guilty as can be here. I suppose that's probably only fair. Rosa has three choices. She can indicate she's going to tell the police: I'm going to have to tell the police. *sigh* I knew it would happen somehow or another. Do what you must. If she goes down that route, Joey asks her if she intends to follow through once they've left. I don't see the point. Neither do I. It's not like he actually did anything, aside from make a few bad choices. Let's get going.I don't know, Joey, blackmail is generally illegal as far as I'm aware. Rosa can instead say that she's not going to do anything. Nothing. It wasn't your fault. Tanya was smart. She knew that if you exposed her, you'd only expose yourself. You wouldn't have gone through with it. *sigh* Yeah. I had the feeling she'd call my bluff, but I was desperate. When she died that night, it was for... other reasons. Other reasons? Reasons that I can't go into. ... I... I'm not sure I believe you, but thanks.Rosa still seems to believe that Peter and Heather/Tanya's deaths were not an accident, even though we haven't actually seen any evidence of that outside of other members of the Grace Group being targeted. Outside, Joey has something to say. From what I've seen of Tanya, I'm surprised she didn't eat Jim alive after he pulled his stunt. Something got to her before she got the chance. Huh. No doubt about that.I don't know. To me, the simple explanation of Tanya taking a cocktail of alcohol and drugs to deal with the anxiety of having her life of prostitution exposed to the world, and then accidentally dying during the stupor seems a more realistic option. Maybe Rosa and Joey know something I don't know? Finally, Rosa can just tell Jim that it's up to him what happens next. It's completely up to you. I'm not going to do anything. You're not? I got what I came here for.Outside, Joey gives her some stick. Very profound, Red. Very profound. Ever think of getting into fortune cookies? I'm only thinking of getting my coffee refilled. That's my girl. Always planning ahead. Heather Goffstein  Anyway, Rosa and Joey head back to Heather to see if they can get her sorted out. On the way, they try to figure out what happened in this case. She killed off her past so thoroughly that it became its own ghost? I suppose so. I didn't know ghosts could do that. What? You read the rule book? Because I sure haven't. If we've got a split spook on our hands, we've got to put 'em back together.This is all a bit strange.  A schitzo ghost. I guess there's a first time for everything.Actually, we already had a schizophrenic ghost in Convergence when Frank Lyons kept going all Joe Gould on us, but anyway. So Heather and Tanya are the same person. Yet, as far as I can tell, Heather's ghost is from a good twenty years ago. My interpretation is that Heather wanted so fervently to change her profession that she somehow killed off her past self, and assumed a new identity - Tanya Corsey. When Tanya died, the part of her old self that was still trapped inside of her became it's own ghost. That's confusing, but let's try to work with it.  Joey heads in to talk with Heather about it.  What do you mean? You're Tanya Corsey. Or at least, you're gonna be. You're making no sense. I'm me. I'm Heather. Maybe I'm not sure who that is yet, but I know it's me.Of course, that's not going to work, is it? Heather's ghost is from the time before Tanya took over. We're going to need to talk to Tanya to get this sorted out, not Heather. Tanya Corsey  Joey floats back up to the top of George's apartment and over to Tanya. This is probably going to get messy.  We've already covered this, haven't we?Nothing for it but to just dive right in. No. I mean who you really are. You're Heather Goffstein. Or at least, you were. ... I told you. I don't know any Heather. Tanya...Tanya isn't listening, however. She's just getting angrier and angrier.  I think we might actually be getting somewhere here. She doesn't exist anymore. She can't. I'm sorry Tanya, but she does. What do you want? Money? A promotion, like Jim? No. I just want you to come with me. There's someone you need to meet. ...Tanya stares forlornly at Joey.  She obviously thinks we're in the process of blackmailing her or something. Fine. Lead on. But remember this - Peter didn't just teach me how to do pilates. Take me anywhere funny and you'll be looking at a broken nose. I wouldn't dream of it.Joey leads her outside to the balcony. Why are we going out there? Just trust me. Trust you. That's rich. Outside, Tanya casts an accusatory glare at Rosa. Are you in league with this man? Um. Kind of? Two blackmailers instead of one. This is just great.If Rosa was the person to meet Tanya first, she does actually recognise Rosa, but doesn't like her any more than she does here.  As they head out of the apartment building, Tanya remains feisty. Just follow us, okay? Can I at least call my car service? I don't think that's possible. What do you mean? She means that they'd never come in this weather. It's better to walk. Come on.Much like with Kendra earlier in the game, we're railroaded a bit here. If we try to take Tanya to the "wrong" place, she kicks up a shitfit. If we try to go home: Why on earth are you taking me there? You know what? I have no idea. Make up your mind.If we try to go to George's apartment: You want to go BACK, all of a sudden? Um. Not really, no. Make up your mind, already.The police station: You want to blackmail me and you're taking me to a police station? Er... right. Maybe we should go somewhere else. You're not very good at this, are you?Hahaha If we try to take her to Grace school, it's Joey that stops us. I can't take her there yet. We need to make her aware first.Let's get her to Heather's place. That's what we need to do here. Where are we going? It's just up this way. Wait. I KNOW this building.(continued next post...)
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Jul 24, 2014 12:30
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Heather Goffstein  Tanya floats towards her old house in confusion. I used to live here. Back when I was...She stops and glares at Joey. Why did you bring me here? Whatever you brought me here for, get on with it! Funnily enough, right at this time, Rosa receives an email from Jim, who threatens her in an attempt to have her leave him alone. Looks like we can add another restraining order to the list!   Alright, that's enough stalling. Let's do this. There's nobody here I want to see. I assure you. Even still. I just need you to follow me. Then we can forget about this whole thing. *sigh* Fine. Joey floats inside Heather's yard, with Tanya in tow. Hey. Heather? Hey. Who's your friend? ...Tanya floats towards Heather in horror. What is THIS?? She angrily demands an explanation from Heather, who is confused by the question.  Heather Goffstein. Who are you? No. No no no no no.Tanya looks away in misery. This is insane. I'm going insane. Um. Sorry?At Heather's voice, Tanya turns back furiously towards Heather. You shouldn't be here. You shouldn't exist! What's your problem? My problem? My problem is that I hate you. Hate me? You don't even know me!Tanya floats in close to Heather.  You can't get rid of me that easily. No kidding. For twenty years I was free of you. And now you come breezing back! Breezing back? From where?Geez, there are some fairly strong emotions flying around here. Joey's just trying to stay out of it, but has no such luck. First Jim wanted a promotion. And now this idiot here wants... I don't know what!Joey can ask to be left out of it: Hey, leave me out of this.But, at the same time, both Heather and Tanya snap at him: YOU STAY RIGHT THERE!Joey can say he doesn't want anything: I don't want anything. That's bull!Or he can offer to just leave Um. Maybe I should just leave you two to talk. YOU STAY RIGHT THERE! Suddenly noticing that they both just spoke in unison, Tanya and Heather face one another. You be quiet! Hey! Stop that!Joey floats up to them. Look at each other. You're the same person. Give or take twenty years. I don't understand. I... don't think I want to.Looks like their emotions are at a peak. It's time to go in for the kill. Tanya. What happened when you got Jim's note? What note? It's too late to deny it. Nothing happened! I just wanted to forget! Forget what? Forget you! Forget this whole life I left behind!That gets Heather's hackles up.   All this. This life. It's a part of who you were. Who you become. Will I... ever be free of you? Do you really want to be? I'm not a bad person. I'm just... kinda lost. I know I'll find my way eventually. Isn't that the important thing? ... Well? Isn't it? ...Tanya seems to be coming around to Heather's point of view, slowly.  You're really beautiful now.Tanya looks back at Heather.  Finally accepting the ghosts of her past (literally!), Tanya's spirit merges with Heather's. Immediately, the change in the tone of her voice is noticable. You okay? Okay? I haven't felt this good in years! It's like a... an espresso and a colonic all at once! Speaking of which, you can take your blackmail threat and shove it.Hahahaha, she's feeling feisty, all right She continues. And I'm going to tell Jim the same thing. Maybe it will end my career. Or maybe it will give me a book deal. Either way, I'm tired of hiding. Tanya, listen... No. I'm not Tanya anymore. Tanya died. She... ...Suddenly, it dawns on her what she just said. She what? She... I... We... And there it is. Tanya, or Heather, or whoever - both, I guess - are aware. I suppose, since she said herself that "Tanya died", we'll go with Heather from now on. So, Heather is aware. ...took three valium with a vodka chaser... That's all I remember. You're not really a blackmailer, are you? No. I'm not. I'm... I'm dead? I'm sorry.Just like Peter, Heather's recognition of her death is met with almost immediate nausea. I... Ugh. If I'm dead, why do I feel sick to my stomach? This time, Joey is more prepared. What? Just do it!Heather grabs the totem, and is teleported away, presumably back to the circle. That was... interesting. Did it work? Only one way to find out. Michael Cooper  Joey and Rosa quickly hightail it back to Grace school, where Michael is hanging out in his circle along with Peter and Heather.  You're taking it much better than I did. Can't you feel it? Like something is trying to pull you apart? I've been pushed and pulled too often this evening for me to notice.Rosa walks up to Madeline. Madeline. Have you had time to examine them? I think... yes.She seems a bit distracted here. Rosa notices it straight away. Madeline? Yes. Apologies. I believe I have all the information I need. Murderer on the Loose  Madeline moves towards the circle, and it immediately dies away, to Michael's obvious concern.  Madeline? Ugh. I... really don't feel so good. This... can't be right. Michael? What's going on? Madeline?Holy poo poo, what's going on here?!   Madeline glares with malice at Michael, and the spirits of Peter and Heather are horribly torn apart Their terrible duet of anguished screaming fills the air even after their spirits dissipate. Rosa covers her eyes in horror, while Michael looks frantically around him self in unbridled fear. I... Madeline? What just happened?I don't believe this is happening.  Madeline glimmers and shines as what appears to be an influx of energy flows through her. She then turns her attention towards Michael, who shakily whips out his pistol. Joey yells out at her, and she is quick to respond.  You. Mallone. Stay BACK. You as well, Blackwell. I have absorbed enough energy to burn that precious body of yours to a cinder. Why! Why do this? Madeline then raises her fist in the air, and Michael finds himself putting his gun away, before he starts to float off the ground. W-what? It is said that every soul has a predestined fate, or destiny. And the goal of every soul is to find it. But it is also said that the joy comes from the journey, not the destination.Oh Jesus.  Madeline shoves Michael through the air as she continues her sermon, still as proper as ever, but with uninhibited malice in her voice. I never, ever saw this coming. Without the epiphanies that were pushed into your brains as if by magic? Maybe you would have all found your way. Maybe not. But you skipped the journey. Went right to the destination. It made your souls happy, for certain, but it also made them weak. Pliable. Controllable. By someone like me. And now if you'll excuse me, I am still very hungry.Oh God.  Madeline then uses her powers to snap Michael's neck, wrench his ghost from his deposited corpse, and rip it straight in half, once again seeming to take in the influx of energy That's all of them now. That's every member of the Grace Group, destroyed soul and all. loving hell, this has all gone to poo poo. You. This whole time. It was you? Indirectly. I knew these souls existed. I just needed to collect them. I could not collect my host until last, because my existence here was tied to him. As for Fielding and Goffstein... they were sleeping spirits. They needed to be awakened - something only you could do. So. Thank you for that.You have got to be kidding me. I can't believe this.  "Collect"? What do you mean by that? Perhaps that word is not sufficient. Possibly... consume? Ingest? Absorb? I took their energy as part of my own. Joey is obviously incensed about what has happened here, but Madeline has anger of her own to fire back with. Free? You, of all souls, tells me that I'm free? I am dead. For centuries I have been dead. I was a good spirit guide. I did my duty. And yet, did I ever move on? Did I receive any reward? No. I was passed on from host to host. Saving spirit after spirit. It... became tiresome. Oh geez. Looks like she's still pissed at Jocelyn. Until you brought me out. Yeah. Well. We all make mistakes. But I was still not free. To fully free myself, I needed power. Energy. These souls - these poor misguided souls - were the nearest source I could find.Rosa looks on at Michael's lifeless body, horrified. You need to fix this. Fix this? Yes. You can still make this right. Just undo it. Please. Bring them back. I'll bring them through the light and we'll... just pretend this never happened.I'm not sure that's possible, Rosa   I am sorry. I have not come this far to turn back now. Allow me to demonstrate.Oh gently caress. This is not good. This is not good at all.  Madeline drags Rosa off the ground, just as she did with Michael, and erects the circle of protection to keep Joey out. Then she dematerialises and is absorbed into Rosa's body. This is turning into a bigger and bigger disaster by the second The circle dims, and Rosa crumples to the floor. Joey floats over to her in massive concern. Red? You okay? Blackwell Lament  Rosa immediately stands up, but it doesn't sound like Rosa anymore...  I wondered if I would have to relearn how to breathe. Or walk. But it all comes quite naturally. Like putting on a tailored glove.Oh, no. No, no, no. This is terrible, just terrible. Madeline has possessed Rosa. Joey can respond in three ways - he can growl out Madeline's name: Madeline. Hello, Mallone. Seeing you with these eyes is... different. Of course, it might be these spectacles. Cumbersome things. I'll show you cumbersome. How about a punch in the face?He can shake his head in disbelief:  No... Come now, Mallone. Surely this is a positive development? If I managed to achieve this, so could you. All you achieved was making an enemy for life.Or, he can try to deny reality: This... isn't happening. You have spent the last three nights ensuring that it did. Denying it won't solve anything. No. It won't. But since I can't punch you, it's all I got.Whichever way Joey goes, Madeline responds in her now-infuriatingly proper way. Mallone. There is no need for this hostility. No need? You lied to us from day one! I apologize for the ruse. I admit I have not been completely forthcoming. No kidding. Come now, Mallone. Nothing has changed. I won't shirk the duty. I have no choice. Oh, I don't think so, and neither does Joey. Like hell. Sadly, you have no choice.Awfully, she's right. Joey is tied to Madeline now. He really does have to go along with her, though he can refuse to cooperate. I'm going to fix this. I'm afraid it's too late for that. I work with Red. Not you. You can think of me as her, if it will help. He tries to reach Rosa, hoping a part of her still remains behind Madeline's influence. She cannot. If her predecessors could not win against me, then she has no hope. Not with the power I now possess. ... Predecessors? What are you talking about?Wait. No, she doesn't mean what I think she means, does she? This is not the first time I have attempted this. In the void, I could only reach certain minds. The minds of other bestowers. ... Other Bestowers? You means... The other Blackwell women. Yes. But I was too weak. And so were they. I could only control their minds for a few minutes before they... broke. ...Oh, my God. No.  Joey growls this line out with a perfect mixture of fear and utter contempt. I did not expect that would happen. But some good did come of it. I eventually learned the proper approach. And finally, I have succeeded.Joey turns away from Madeline, besides himself with anger, grief and despair. You're insane. I mean it, Madeline. A stark raving lunatic. Do you have any idea what you've done? You dare condemn me, little ghost? Allow a few centuries to pass. Wait until you've been left abandoned in the dark. Adrift. Terrified. Then you can pass judgement. But until then, I must get to the business of living.With that, she starts to leave Grace school.  Joey yells at her to stay, but she just ignores him and walks outside.  Awfully, as Joey screams after her, the bond that now exists between them kicks into effect, and Joey is dragged out the church. Do try and keep up.Without a care for Joey's protests, Madeline happily continues to walk down the street, with Joey dragged behind her. I know I've said it several times already this update - but this whole situation is awful, really just truly awful. Betrayal is afoot in Blackwell Epiphany! Madeline has been using us all along to harvest the souls of the Grace Group, and she's now possessed Rosa. Not to mention that she was apparently responsible for Patricia and Lauren going insane all those years ago. Things are set to get very bad for us now. Join me tomorrow to see where this amazing development leads! Also, since I did just do a video for the Goldfarb scene - this scene deserves a video as well. I strongly recommend you watch it, it's one of the best scenes in the entire series. http://www.polsy.org.uk/play/yt/?vurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DOrF_hiUgWkA  So it seems that Madeline played us for a sucker all along. But how long has she been planning this? Back in Convergence, she told us things that we've since learned don't make sense. Why would she tell us that she was Jocelyn's spirit guide for thirty years? She clearly wasn't. For that matter, why would she claim that Jocelyn had loved it? Was she simply lying all along? Madeline was lying all along...? Well, kind of. This is something of a retcon. Actually, truth be told - Gilbert kind of forgot about the whole "guide for thirty years, Jocelyn loved saving ghosts" thing. It's not clear whether he changed it midway through, or just forgot about his plans when writing Convergence, but he didn't realise there was any discrepency until I pointed it out to him. With that in mind, his subsequent explanation seems as good as any - Madeline was lying all long, presumably to gain Rosa's trust. There's something intrinsically attractive and trustworthy about the idea of a guide who looked after her host for thirty years. It immediately gives a sense of a motherly, caring figure who develops strong relationships with integrity and commitment. On the other hand, two strained months which led to your host banishing you to eternal nothingness doesn't exactly fill you with confidence. Of course, all of this is just filling in the gaps in what has been a very tight story for the most part, but which had a bit of a plot hole here. Gilbert says: "Oops. Honestly, I could come up with a clever explanation, but I will err on the side of honesty and say that was a mistake! Let's just say Madeline was lying to gain their trust, since that is probably close to the truth." I'll forgive Gilbert the one plot hole, because honestly, the Madeline betrayal scene was awesomely done, and it really caught me by surprise. We're now heading into the final few days of Epiphany, and they're going to be doozies. Don't miss tomorrow's update!
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Jul 24, 2014 12:30
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Lauren stabbed the wrong one in the eye with her cigarette 
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Jul 24, 2014 13:01
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Ahhh I've been waiting for this update. The Heather/Tanya split ghost thing was done very well. I have to say I kind of wish they hadn't gone the Madeline was corrupt/evil all along route.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:13
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Sardonik posted:I have to say I kind of wish they hadn't gone the Madeline was corrupt/evil all along route. On the one hand, I agree with you. On the other, that was actually a good reveal... And I'm on the edge of my drat seat for what comes next. C'mon, Rosa, get closure for your family and kick her lily rear end!
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Jul 24, 2014 13:30
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I kind of wish it was an event that occurred in this game (or even the last) that pushed a conflicted Madeline over the edge instead of her always being evil. It just would've fit a bit better narrative wise than her always having been manipulating Rosa. At the same time though I kind of like how it tied into Lauren and Patricia even though it means Rosa could've possibly given up on her duty safely. That bit is an obvious retcon.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:33
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Oh my god, the Tanya/Heather are the same person thing is something I thought of, but I dismissed it as just a weird thought. Jesus, can't believe that. The entire scene is well done though, I actually like it. Edit: Now that I've actually read the entire update, I'm of two minds about the Madeleine betrayal thing. The 'it was me all along' thing is kind of tiresome, at least in regards to Patricia & Lauren. At the same time, in regards to her direct plan here and her motivations, I like that at least. She first did centuries of service without rest and then spent at least 60 years trapped in the void. I can buy anyone going insane from that. She's genuinely tired and feeling like the universe has poo poo on her really hard, so she's doing whatever she can to regain some control. On a lighter note, it does amuse me that in the course of working on those two ghosts, Rosa probably acquired 3 restraining orders. Keldulas fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 13:42
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Keldulas posted:Oh my god, the Tanya/Heather are the same person thing is something I thought of, but I dismissed it as just a weird thought. Jesus, can't believe that. It is a bit of a strange case, isn't it? That's kind of why I went with Peter's case first - the reveal scene for his case is really moving and well done, whereas for Heather and Tanya it's just kind of strange. It is handled well (although Tanya's "will I ever be free of you?" line is a bit of a cringey moment) but the story itself is a bit of a stretch. Still, it's immediately forgotten when the Madeline scene follows it I'll discuss my thoughts on Madeline as the next few updates unfold, but I don't get a "she was evil all along" vibe from her. If anything she strikes me as a character who was desperate (as anyone would be after decades in the void) and tried a few things that just went wrong, completely unexpectedly to her. Finally, she took one step too far with the whole Grace Group thing, but the transition from "just trying anything that might work" to "clearly doing a very evil thing" only happened over a very long period of time. In any event, backstory aside, the way the reveal scene is done is brilliant. I absolutely adore that scene. cmndstab fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 13:53
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Sardonik posted:I have to say I kind of wish they hadn't gone the Madeline was corrupt/evil all along route. Some speculation - I'm guessing at this point that the souls torn in half could actually be saved, if Madeline is defeated (Rosa seems to think this could be the case). If so the Blackwell women could be restored as well.
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Jul 24, 2014 13:54
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 A twist! I'd love to say I saw this coming but this was a complete shock! The only hint I had was that Madeline does kind of look like an evil Queen, Disney style.And thanks for the videos!
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Jul 24, 2014 14:21
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I'm having a fun time just thinking on how this could resolve, and who would get involved. Specifically, I'm thinking on both the gunman and the police. We haven't seen yet why the gunman was hunting down the group or who Benjiro is. At the same time, I'm thinking about the next time Durkin/the police get in touch with Rosa. I doubt Madeline knows how closely Rosa was working with the police, never mind her contacts. I'd probably say that she has no idea who Durkin/Cory are. So she's going to be acting completely differently, maybe not even knowing who they are at all, which may trigger their deeper involvement. The possibilities are interesting to think about.
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Jul 24, 2014 14:25
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One thing that I believe was never adressed in dialogue: did Peter Fielding ever recognise Tanya as Heather? And did she recognise him from the Grace group? Seems strange that she would take fitness instruction from a guy that could potentially expose her past. Plus, if it was simply intended to be a coincidence that they ran into each other without realising it, it seems like a pretty contrived one. Blackwell universe New York seems like a much smaller world than you would expect.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:05
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Kopijeger posted:One thing that I believe was never adressed in dialogue: did Peter Fielding ever recognise Tanya as Heather? And did she recognise him from the Grace group? Seems strange that she would take fitness instruction from a guy that could potentially expose her past. Plus, if it was simply intended to be a coincidence that they ran into each other without realising it, it seems like a pretty contrived one. Blackwell universe New York seems like a much smaller world than you would expect. I think you're right, it's not made clear. My interpretation is that Peter did know, though if he did I wish he would have told us so we could have figured it out quicker. Perhaps keeping her secret had become part of his being by that stage. The reason I think he knows is that, as you say, Tanya wouldn't go to him and risk being exposed if he didn't already know. When we mention Heather to Peter, he says he "hasn't heard that name in a long time", which is a very specific choice of words. When Joey asks about her he says it's been a long time (it has been a year or so since Tanya died) and that he "didn't speak to her much back then" which still makes sense if we're asking about the name she used to be known by. In the end, of course, it's quite ambiguous, and I assume deliberately so. I probably should have asked Gilbert about it! 
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Jul 24, 2014 15:10
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MysticalMachineGun posted:
There's also the fact that her sprite doesn't have that ragged bottom that all the other ghosts have. That part always bothered me, and I wonder if that was done intentionally as some sort of foreshadowing of her "eating" the other ghosts.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:20
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Hahaha, holy poo poo, that was terrifying and totally unexpected. I can kind of sympathize with Madeline since that kind of experience would gently caress up anyone, but on the other hand that's just wrong from start to finish. I like that line about character development the easy way making you weak, because if there's one thing that Rosa has going for her, it's the certainty that she won all of hers the hard way. I honestly have no idea how they'll get out of this one but I hope it involves a restraining order. I kind of want to know if Lauren and Granny would have gone mad like they did if they'd kept on/started saving ghosts. I kind of liked it when inaction was the key to their downfall, and it's kind of bleak if they'd have snapped either way.
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Jul 24, 2014 15:39
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Appreciate the videos. It was good to be able to hear things like that neck snap and Rosa's possessed voice.cmndstab posted:Don't worry - we're almost through the requisite "save a couple of ghosts" part of Epiphany and things are about to click well and truly back into gear. Don't miss tonight's update! Robodog posted:And that's a terrible english accent, god drat.  It's just regional and a little odd. cmndstab posted:
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Jul 24, 2014 16:13
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Madeline and Jocelyn deserved each other. I like the reveal, except for the retcon involving Patricia and Lauren. It just made more sense that their problems came from ignoring their duty.
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Jul 24, 2014 16:33
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I won't be annoyed with the reveal that Madeline caused the insanity if it is revealed that it was only because they were weakened by not ghost hunting that Madeline was able to go after them in this manner, and that Madeline was doomed to failure and would inevitably have driven them insane because they were already weakened from not ghost hunting. That way, Madeline may be the SPECIFIC catalyst, but the root is still the same. And any Bestower who stops ghost hunting becomes vulnerable to any spiritual force that may want to drive them insane, or even who just wants anything but will accidentally drive them insane anyway just from their desire. That works for me. If my interpretation is right, Madeline is only able to posess Rosa successfully in this case because Rosa is a strong ghost hunter, AND because Madeline is supercharged up. If Madeline wasn't supercharged, Rosa's strength would have kept her out. If Rosa wasn't strong, it'd be back to the insane asylum again. It's the combination of Rosa being strong and Madeline being stronger that allows this to work.
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Jul 24, 2014 16:49
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On the other hand, if giving up on Bestowing isn't an automatic ticket to the loony bin, that means Rosa has a way out and a chance at a normal life. Or at least as normal as she can get with all those restraining orders. Good luck explaining that one to a living partner.
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Jul 24, 2014 16:52
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I will discuss a bit about the implications of what we've learned about what caused Lauren and Patricia to go insane, as well as a few inputs from my interview with Gilbert and some speculation as well. In the mean time, though, I kind of like the idea that Madeline was responsible for Lauren and Patricia going insane. Joey's "they just went crazy because they stopped saving ghosts" explanation always seems kind of convenient to me. He's got a sample of two, and in both cases it was several months before they went crazy. He really has no idea that's what caused it. I always got the impression he was just happy to accept and perpetuate the idea because, without Rosa saving ghosts, his existence is pointless. However, there is still more Epiphany to come! Hopefully at least some of your questions will be answers satisfyingly by the end
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Jul 24, 2014 16:58
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WickedHate posted:It just made more sense that their problems came from ignoring their duty. Really? I have to say that never made any sense at all to me. I thought back in the first game that we'd eventually find and confront whatever spirit had driven them insane. I admit, I'd completely forgotten I'd thought that by the time it happened, though.
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Jul 24, 2014 19:01
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Well, Lauren happened to start getting problems not long after she began slacking off. She was with Joey for so long, but it only started happening then. It also gave a feeling that there was a consequence to not doing the job. Not necessarily someone specifically making it happen per the universe with no guidance, but like some little rule set in place ages and ages ago to make sure people wouldn't just ignore it if they felt like it.
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Jul 24, 2014 19:08
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VagueRant posted:Appreciate the videos. It was good to be able to hear things like that neck snap and Rosa's possessed voice. quote:The twist is good, but I'm surprised you bigger fans of the series aren't a little annoyed by this. It kinda cheapens the drama and threat of Rosa getting Ghost Madness from the first game. The idea that instead of being a more human reaction, it only happened because the evil force of villainy was whispering in their ear all along.
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Jul 24, 2014 19:17
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ultrafilter posted:On the other hand, if giving up on Bestowing isn't an automatic ticket to the loony bin, that means Rosa has a way out and a chance at a normal life. Obviously she should get a prison pen pal. Those folks know what it's like.
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Jul 24, 2014 22:29
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I'm kinda torn on the whole Madeline causing the Blackwell madness deal. On the one hand Gilbert kept the cause vague enough in the first game that not ghost-busting was a natural assumption but with room for other explanations, but on the other hand this explanation feels kinda convenient? Or shoe-horned? It just feels a bit too "It was me all along!" I guess. It's probably gonna come up in future Word of God updates, but I kinda wonder how much of this was planned from the beginning and how much he came up with during the course of the series. What with trimming the series to half its planned size I'm honestly not sure if he just missed his chance to put in more clues or if Madeline's motives and the cause of the Blackwell madness were more recent ideas.
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Jul 25, 2014 00:20
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I'm not entirely convinced this whole thing is going to work out well for the Countess. She's got to go inside Rosa to send people along, after all.
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Jul 25, 2014 00:47
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I'm not that mad about the fact that the insanity was caused by Madeline, actually. I never really thought it could be a normal thing. Bestowers like Rosa that accept it quickly are probably not the norm, and it would just be a bad system if a Bestower went crazy unless they saved ghosts constantly. Also, schizophrenia and Disassociate Identity Disorder (DID) are two different illnesses, and it's really offensive (to me, at least) to call DID schitzophrenia. That bothered me a lot back in Convergence, but it wasn't relevant. Now that it is I thought I should bring it up. 
yamiaainferno fucked around with this message at 01:33 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 01:20
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Another thought: if Madeline was responsible for some Bestowers going crazy, was she also responsible for turning the Countess into a murderer?
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Jul 25, 2014 01:31
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yamiaainferno posted:Also, schizophrenia and Disassociate Identity Disorder (DID) are two different illnesses, and it's really offensive (to me, at least) to call DID schitzophrenia. That bothered me a lot back in Convergence, but it wasn't relevant. Now that it is I thought I should bring it up. Apologies for the mistake on my behalf - as for in-game, well, Joey is from the early 1900s. Chances are he hadn't even heard of multiple personality disorder by that stage. From memory, Rosa actually calls it MPD at one point. a cartoon duck posted:It's probably gonna come up in future Word of God updates, but I kinda wonder how much of this was planned from the beginning and how much he came up with during the course of the series. What with trimming the series to half its planned size I'm honestly not sure if he just missed his chance to put in more clues or if Madeline's motives and the cause of the Blackwell madness were more recent ideas. I'll discuss a fair few things in the upcoming Word of God updates, but not that. I didn't check with Gilbert, but my feeling is that it was his intention all along to have Madeline eventually betray Rosa. The fact that he mentioned in one of his commentaries that he intended to have a game solely dedicated to introducing Madeline tells me she was always going to feature in a major way in the ending. My impression is that she is a character who was essentially a good person/ghost, but who was driven over the edge by being abandoned for decades in the void. She uses the "I got bored" excuse, but really, it was being banished that pushed her to madness. After decades, she realised it wasn't ever going to end and, in desperation, tried whatever she could to get out of the void. She had no intention of destroying Patricia and Lauren, she just saw them as a means to an end - escaping. Even after Joey got her out, it would have been obvious to her that she was only ever one grumpy host away from being abandoned again. So she finally snapped and decided that she needed to look after herself, and drat the souls she had been saving. Personally, I find Madeline being (at least partially) responsible for them going insane a far more satisfying explanation than it being wholly because of stopping ghostsaving (or never starting, in Patricia's case). Obviously not saving ghosts has something to do with it - as WickedHate says, Lauren was fine for years. It can't just be coincidence that Madeline only tried to possess her shortly after she stopped. I'll discuss that further tonight. But for now, I much prefer the idea that a particular action occurred to drive them insane, as opposed to "it's been x months since you saved a ghost, game over." cmndstab fucked around with this message at 03:15 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 03:13
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Well...poo poo got very real, real fast. Hopefully we get a scene where Joey and Madeline fight it out like the fighting minigame from Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey, suckerpunches and all
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Jul 25, 2014 04:22
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It's giving myself way too much credit to say I saw this coming, but something about how... pliable? She was acting kind of struck me as off. Nevertheless, this is very well done! I love when the series is about bad people, and not Secret Conspiracies.
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Jul 25, 2014 05:08
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I find myself wondering if Madeline is going to go forward with saving souls... or if she's going to keep eating them. Once you've had five, you can't just stop. She's already crossed so many lines, why balk at the rest of them? Why is the existence of any tarnished lost soul any more precious than the ones she's always devoured? As powerful as she's become, who can say she can't do this? gently caress, I can't think of any monster/villain more frightening/hate-worthy than those who feed upon souls.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:39
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cmndstab posted:Apologies for the mistake on my behalf - as for in-game, well, Joey is from the early 1900s. Chances are he hadn't even heard of multiple personality disorder by that stage. From memory, Rosa actually calls it MPD at one point. Yeah! I actually really liked that Rosa corrected him on that. And no need to apologize, you just didn't know. There's a really big ignorance stigmata around mental illnesses in general, especially very serious ones. So it's important to let people know when they get it wrong, but it's not cool to get in someone's face just because they didn't know something. No need to apologize, cmndstab.
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Jul 25, 2014 08:49
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Drakli posted:I find myself wondering if Madeline is going to go forward with saving souls... or if she's going to keep eating them. It is a bit of a scary thought, and she could've easily gotten corrupted with eating those souls in the first place. At the same time, if we take anything she says at face value, she's already gotten what she wanted. She basically doesn't have a motive to keep consuming souls at the moment. There's also the distinction that she was preying specifically on these weak souls, so that at the very least, doing it to normal souls should be harder. ... you know, this thought just occurred to me while typing this. There's still the thread of the Benjiro person. The Grace group met 20 years ago, while Madeline was trapped. Given the limited scope of what she admitted she could do, I doubt she set it up herself. Because of that, no matter whether this Benjiro had good or ill intentions for these people, I don't think they'd be happy with a third party going around and eating them. Hmm.
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Jul 25, 2014 12:50
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I actually forgot that Benjiro had the group that long ago. Sounds like Madeline took advantage of the situation rather than being the mastermind.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:09
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Drakli posted:I find myself wondering if Madeline is going to go forward with saving souls... or if she's going to keep eating them. Her only stated goal is to move on, and at this point she doesn't have any reason to lie to Joey. Plus she still strikes me as a very dutiful person, it's just that after centuries after of faithfully doing her duty she expected something in return and if it wouldn't be given to her, she's gonna take it herself, drat the consequences. If anything I feel it would cheapen Madeline's character if she decides to shirk or duty or turns or megalomaniac or anything. The thing that makes Madeline works as an antagonist here is that even someone as committed to her duty, without voicing so much as a single complaint, eventually crumbles under her cosmic duty. It also nicely contrasts with Rosalina who embraced her duty where other Bestowers had a choice not to do as we just learned, whereas as a spirit guide Madeline never had much of a choice except to get ignored by the world at large for all eternity if she didn't do her job. It also the raises the question what centuries of duty would do to someone like Joey if even Madeline cannot deal with that poo poo. Turn Madeline into a soul-addicted junkie who shirks her duty and all of that's more or less lost.
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Jul 25, 2014 13:20
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Update 19 LAST TIME Murderer on the Loose  After helping Peter and Heather become aware of their death, Rosa and Joey returned to Grace school, only to watch on in horror as Madeline removed the circle of protection and destroyed their spirits, taking their energy into herself  She then snapped Michael's neck using her apparent telekinetic powers and devoured his soul as well.  With all that spirit energy, Madeline enacted her plan to possess Rosa's body.  Horrifyingly, we learned that Madeline had attemped this twice before - and it was what led to Patricia and Lauren going insane all those years ago. Blackwell Lament  We rejoin Joey, as he finds himself pulled along by Madeline, who has rounded the corner to the front of the Grace Church. Since he's tied to Rosa's body, Joey is forced to follow. I'm getting her back. One way or another.Unfortunately, Joey can't really do anything to her. He briefly considers using his one power... What would that achieve? Make her slightly colder?...but breathing on her is no use. What else can he do?  Yes, Mallone?Well, he can talk, for one. Now what? I will simply... live. I will grow old, and I will die. Like any other soul. And when that happens, perhaps I will move on as intended. It is a slim hope. But after centuries of existence, it is the best I have.So that's her plan. Take a chance on moving on that way. And if not, I guess she's no worse off than before. Other than the guilt of having devoured several souls and then stealing Rosa's entire life, of course, but I don't think she's too bothered about that.  Joey circles around in front of her and casts an accusatory glare at her. I did not. I admit, their minds' rejection of me had unintended... consequences. But there was no malice intended. Well, that's just jake. As long as there was no MALICE.She might be able to claim that was an accident, but what happened to the Grace Group members was no accident.  Maybe you didn't mean to kill Lauren and Patricia. But you did kill George Ostin. As a spirit? I hardly think so. Bull. You're the only one with any motive. I don't know how, but it was you.With nothing to lose from being open with us, Madeline fills Joey in on the real story. Poor Cooper. A weakened soul is SUCH a sad thing. And his mind was SO easily controlled. Oh geez. So Michael was the gunman all along. Controlled by Madeline. And he would do it. With no memory of it. Well, perhaps some residual guilt remained. He HAS gotten quite agitated since it happened. Fortunately, that is no longer relevent.Perhaps that's why he was in such a bad mood? Maybe it had nothing to do with maintaining the circle after all? Joey summons up his courage. I'm gonna fix this. One way or another. You honestly believe that? This might seem strange to you, but yeah. I've always known I was here for a reason. And maybe this is it. To fix what spooks like you screw up. ... Madeline looks curiously at Joey before responding. That is... amusing. Amusing? Yes. You honestly don't know? What's she going on about now? Of course I don't know WHAT? You think you are so special? You think you were... what? Chosen? You were nothing important, Mallone. You were merely the last. The last what? The last spirit we saved. Before I was banished. I could not continue the duty, so it was passed onto you.So that's why Joey became a spirit guide. It was because Jocelyn banished Madeline. Once their link degraded to the stage that it broke completely, whatever powers that govern the Universe just dragged Joey back out and slapped him in the role. It's never fully explained in the games, but my interpretation is that this is the result of two separate events - first of all, Jocelyn banishing Madeline, and secondly, Jocelyn transferring the link. What I think happened is that Jocelyn learned how to transfer the link to Joe Gould. However, her intention was to make it so Madeline would become Gould's guide. Instead, it obviously hosed up, and Gould became Jocelyn's guide instead. In the mean time, Madeline had been banished. The link-transferring process took a long time - probably, it needed the link between Madeline and Jocelyn to perish first. As soon as that happened, Joey came into being, and Jocelyn found herself shackled to Joe Gould. As I described in an earlier Word of God update, what would generally happen in a situation like this would be Joey getting shackled to Jocelyn. I imagine that she would roll her eyes, and realise that banishing her host doesn't free her from the duty, it just gives her a new spirit guide. Probably she wouldn't bother to try it again - or, she'd use it as a threat to keep Joey in line. However, the addition of the link-shifting completely threw everything off-kilter. Joey ended up with a brand new Bestower, one who had never been one before. Madeline remained stuck in the void without a host, and Jocelyn got hosed up bad and became The Countess. All in all, a massive disaster. What the hell do you mean? I was the "last spirit you saved?" Honestly. Did you think you were different from any other lost soul? The confusion. The fear they all felt. That YOU felt. It is no wonder you have forgotten. ... Doesn't matter. That was then. This is now. And right now, I plan on fixing this.Looks like Joey does remember, now that he's been reminded at least. So there was no real heroic reason for Joey becoming a spirit guide. No debt to be paid because of actions in his life. No special reason he was chosen. It was just pure coincidence that Jocelyn banished Madeline right after saving Joey - it could have been any other spirit saved before she pulled the trigger. That's a bit of a slap to the face to Joey's ego.  In frustration, Joey snaps at Madeline. No reason. I am just... enjoying the sensation. It's been a long time since I have felt snow on my face. That's not your face. True, I suppose, but no matter. I am still enjoying it.No, but really, why is Madeline just standing out here in the snow? Surely she has something planned besides just standing around in the cold? Suddenly, it dawns on Joey. You can't go any further, can you? Whatever do you mean? You're stuck. You're tied to Michael. Trying to escape it is like hitting a brick wall. It is a temporary setback. Nothing more.Hahaha, holy poo poo. He's right!  Madeline's spirit is inside Rosa, and she can't go more than thirty feet from Michael's body. I guess eventually their link will break now that he's dead, but for now she's stuck here at Grace Church. Joey finds this all highly amusing, and with nothing else to lose, he starts getting stuck into Madeline Don't be absurd. You know as well as I do. I am bound to his corporeal form for a few days. After that... I will be free.A few days? Joey figures he may as well make the most of that time and gets to mocking. Hah. Some master plan. All this planning. All this death. And you can't even cross the street. Only for a day or two. I can wait. I have infinite patience. Yeah. But does your stomach? You're gonna get hungry. Any problem has a solution. What about going to the bathroom? Red drank a LOT of coffee. ...Hahaha, he's really giving it to her. Good on him  Already sick of being stuck here listening to Joey's taunting, Madeline starts to consider other options. Here's an idea. Take a powder. Just leave us the hell alone. Will you let me THINK!Fat chance of that. Looks like Joey is really getting to her! I can't wait for the cops to show up. A dead priest, and you just around the corner. Bet you never expected to come back to life only to spend it in jail. Will you be quiet! Honestly. Why you haven't driven your host completely mad is beyond me.Hahahaha, I love this scene  Suddenly, Joey hatches a plan. Madeline can't go more than thirty feet from Michael... but there's no reason Rosa's body can't, if he can force her to move away from the church. He winds up his magic tie around his fist, and reaches for Rosa's hand, grabbing it tight. What- what are you doing? You know. Red and I have a bond. We gotta stick together. Where she goes, I go. You might be wearing Red's body, but you ain't her. There's a line in the snow, and you can't cross it. But Rosa Blackwell? She can cross it just fine. You're... you're hurting me! Good. Situation Critical  Giving Rosa a sudden shove, Joey pushes her across the threshold, and Madeline's spirit is violently torn from Rosa's body. She is not pleased.  Do you have ANY IDEA what you just did? I just evicted you, sister.Joey is seriously loving awesome in this scene  No. NO. I will not be trapped in that limbo again. Tough. You made your mess. Now clean it up. ... Madeline seems to consider her options, and then responds coldly. Very well. Just remember. You brought this on yourself. As suddenly as that, Madeline zips away. I guess we won? But no doubt we're going to have to head after her and deal with her once and for all, or else she could be back again any time. Urg... Red? Red! Talk to me. Joey? I... Groggily, Rosa pushes herself up. I... ugh. Careful. I feel...Suddenly, a familiar voice rings out from the street.  You!Oh, shitfuck. Not now.  Dispatch reported a woman ranting to herself in front a church. I had a feeling it would be you. Care to explain the dead body around the corner? Cory... Cory whips out his pistol and advances on Rosa. Now. Explain. No... Miss Blackwell. I've been patient and cooperative so far.Rosa doesn't sound at all right here.  Suddenly, she grabs her head and screams out in pain, then knocks Cory out cold with a headbutt What the hell? What're you DOING? Was it like this for them? For who?Oh, poo poo. I know where this is going  The Universe is flooding into Rosa's head, just like happened to The Countess all those years ago. Just like happened to Patricia, and to Lauren. She falls to her knees in agony. It's like... it's like it's... No! It's too much! In an attempt to stop the pain, Rosa starts to bash her head against the ground, begging for the sweet release of unconsciousness. Jesus. Cut it out!Joey floats up to her in desperation. Not again. Not you. Not now.He turns around frantically, looking for anything that can help. Help! Somebody! Anybody! The scene comes to a close with a cold message from Madeline. This has gone very loving bad.  Rosa wakes up... somewhere in the void, I guess? Gotta... no. NO! She pushes herself up and looks around. First of all, she notices the pain in her head is gone. Then, she notices that Joey is gone too. I... God, I'm tired.In a daze, she walks off to the right. Rosa and Lauren  Oh, my goodness. It's Lauren!  The last time I saw Auntie alive, she was wasting away in a hospital bed. Gray and gaunt. But now? She looks... young. Younger than me, even. ... I've forgotten how much I've missed her.I absolutely adore the music for this scene. Gilbert nominates it as his favourite of the series. There are two ways to approach this scene. Rosa can try to walk past Lauren, but Lauren calls out to her:  Hey. Figured you'd turn up sooner or later. Is that really you? C'mere. I saved you a seat.Or, alternatively, Rosa can just speak to her: Hello? Auntie? Is that you? Oh. Hey. I saved you a seat.Awesomely, Lauren is once against voiced by Dani Marco. It was pure coincidence that Gilbert was able to get her for this game. He does all his voice acting on site in New York, and Dani had moved to the other side of America shortly after completing work on Unbound. However, through Shelly Shenoy's voice acting contacts, he learned that she was going to be visiting New York right around the time he was reaching the final stages of designing Epiphany, and he made sure to bring her in to voice Lauren again. She's absolutely wonderful in the role. It's also great to finally have a proper Lauren portrait, after Unbound didn't have any. Rosa has three choices of how to respond to Lauren. Where are we? Am I dead? Is that really you?But whichever way she chooses, Lauren responds exactly the same. You ask too many questions. You always did. Sit down, kiddo. We've got nothing but time. Rosa sits down, and for the first time, notices the amazing view in front of her.  At this point, Rosa refuses to get up. If we try to make her move, she hesitates. I... Funny. What? I thought I... might get up? Why do you want to do that? I dunno.Looks like this place, whatever it is, saps your will to leave. I guess, given the alternative of reality at the moment, that's not such a bad thing. Auntie? Yeah, kiddo? What happened to me? To us?Rosa finally gets the opportunity she's wished for all her life: to talk with Lauren, and learn more about her. Dunno. Last I remember, my head hurt. Really bad. I tried to make it stop, but it just got worse. I... might have thrown something? ... You did. I was there. Did I scream? Yes.Lauren still sounds as disconnected and lacking in passion as in Unbound, but there is a touch of sensitivity in her voice as she speaks with Rosa. There is also the awkwardness of two adults who are very close to one another, but who don't actually know each other at all. I... I didn't hurt you, did I? I hid in the closet. Ah. Good. Smart. Yeah. Rosa fills Lauren in on what she knows. She didn't succeed, but... we ended up here. Somehow. Oh. That's all you can say? "Oh"? Does it really matter anymore? ... I guess not. Rosa notes that Lauren still looks young. Well, I take care of myself. No. That's not what I mean. When I last saw you, you were over fifty. At least.Lauren is slightly taken aback, or at least, as much as she ever is. So I kept on living, huh? You were alive, if that's what you mean. Hm. Hospital bed. Like mom. Yeah. Well. I guess it was my turn. And now... I guess it's yours.Actually, that's a good point. Lauren isn't appearing here as a ghost, but as a young, living woman, much as she would have been when Madeline possessed her. But we know she's dead. Somehow, in this place, that must be disguised.  Oh yeah? Yeah. ... Thanks.This scene is really quite moving on many levels. It's sweet, but at the same time, Lauren seems so disconnected from Rosa as well. There's an invisible barrier between them. Auntie. You don't seem... yourself. Huh. You don't know me at all, kiddo. In this place... I feel more like myself than anywhere I've ever been.Rosa then asks about why Lauren kept the whole medium deal a secret from her. Why didn't you tell me? Tell you what? About Joey. About my family. All of it. You were five years old. You could barely understand how to tie your shoes. And... I thought we had more time. But hey, you're here now. And we've got all the time in the world. Don't know. Don't much care. The view is nice. And I don't have Joey nagging me.So, wait. Surely Patricia should be here as well, right? She suffered the same fate as both Rosa and Lauren. Auntie? Is my grandmother here? She was. But she faded away. I guess... it will happen to me soon. And you.I guess this is some kind of limbo, or something. But in the meantime, let's enjoy the view. Huh. It sure is a nice, view, isn't it? Yeah. Let's just enjoy it for a while. With nothing left to say, Rosa and Lauren fall quiet, other than the gentle puffs of Lauren's cigarette. I've specifically captured this GIF in a higher quality than usual, because it's so gorgeous. Rosa and Lauren focus on the amazing view, and enjoy each other's silent company. They've got nothing but time. Bit of a shorter update today, but the pacing of the final updates dictates that a bit. Besides, I'm such a sucker for Lauren that this scene is enough for a whole update for me. But don't worry - this story isn't over yet, not by a long shot. See you all tomorrow! So now we know why Patricia and Lauren went crazy. It wasn't because they stopped saving ghosts - it was Madeline trying to possess them. Their minds rejected her, but in the process they were irreparably damaged, and the Universe to come flooding in. Still, is that really the whole story? Lauren was saving ghosts for a decade and nothing happened. Why did Madeline wait so long? Gilbert expands on the explanation: It was the stress of stopping saving ghosts that made Lauren vulnerable to Madeline Raising a young child, dealing with the death of her brother, and having to listen to Joey whine at her each day caused Lauren an enormous amount of stress. And she wasn't exactly the most together person to start with. It's one thing to deal with ghosts you have no emotional connection with each night, but to have to deal with a scared and insular young toddler while a very familiar ghost berates you constantly about avoiding your duty was too much for Lauren. Madeline, meanwhile, knew that she couldn't simply attempt to take over Lauren's mind like she did with Patricia. With Patricia, Madeline tried it as soon as she could, and it just wrecked Patricia's mind. Patricia wanted nothing to do with the spiritual world, and her mind rejected Madeline almost immediately. With Lauren, Madeline decided to wait until she was weak. After all, Madeline didn't care if Lauren was even on the verge of death when she took over - her goal was to move on after Lauren died. However, once Madeline saw in Lauren's dreams that she was under so much stress, she figured it was the perfect moment to strike. Gilbert describes: "A long time ago, I had planned for an extended flashback sequence with Lauren and a baby Rosa. Which showed Lauren being under tremendous pressure before she went insane. Joey naturally leapt to the wrong conclusion that giving up the ghost-saving was what caused it to happen, but it was just Madeline waiting for the most opportune moment. She tried to take Patricia by force and failed. She tried again with Lauren, waiting until she was at her weakest, but still failed. She tried a completely different tact with Rosa and succeeded. For awhile, anyway." So in some sense, giving up saving ghosts is what led to Lauren's downfall, if only indirectly. But it appears that she was going to end up going insane either way - Madeline was going to make sure of that. The only difference was instead of having Madeline try her possession stunt when Lauren was a ripe old age, she instead gave up saving ghosts at the age of 30 or so, a decision which ended up confining her to a hospital bed and a medically-induced coma for the next 25 years. cmndstab fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 14:41
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B-b-but, Joey shoving Rosa should've saved her, not condemned her
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Jul 25, 2014 16:05
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