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Swagger Dagger posted:The seeker class Captain Walker made seems straight up superior to the ranger if you want an archer type. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qkF-NADPPk0TwhFWdNV_xv77jiqNm4srJRCTSnoCwpI/edit I hope you don't mind me jumping off this, but I am curious why, conceptually, a fighter and a ranger are two separate classes?
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Jul 22, 2014 20:30
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Covok posted:I hope you don't mind me jumping off this, but I am curious why, conceptually, a fighter and a ranger are two separate classes? Genre conventions.
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Jul 22, 2014 20:33
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Re: 13th Age Deep Magic http://www.koboldquarterly.com/kqstore/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=5&products_id=239 I kinda like the idea of being able to add it to any class, but I wonder how they're going to handle our favorite ball of exceptions, the Chaos Mage. Part of the beauty inherent in the class is that their long spell list is mitigated by comparably few options, turn-to-turn, and I'd kinda like to know how it's going to be addressed.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:04
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Covok posted:I hope you don't mind me jumping off this, but I am curious why, conceptually, a fighter and a ranger are two separate classes? As usual, it's all Tolkien's fault. The Ranger class of TTRPGs is an amalgamation of Aragorn and Legolas, while Gimli and Boromir represent the archetypical Fighter.
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Jul 22, 2014 21:12
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Covok posted:I hope you don't mind me jumping off this, but I am curious why, conceptually, a fighter and a ranger are two separate classes? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gRdfX7ut8gw
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Jul 22, 2014 21:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:So, what are the popular houserules people use? Right now I'm considering the aforementioned "druids start with four talent points" and "monks choose either strength or dexterity for both attack and defense." Some games I'm in use what we call the "Humans are less special snowflakes" rule where everyone gets the extra feat. It's not like rolling twice for initiative is really that weak by itself. Another houserule that's used in games I'm in is that when your attributes increase, you get 2 +2's instead of 3 +1's, but you can only ever put two of those increases into one attribute.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:19
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djw175 posted:
I agree with this but think it can be streamlined further, as 2 +1 to the modifier, not to the stat. Much simpler. The entire odd=stat modifier even=gently caress you is a strange legacy division. Just getting rid of original ability scores and substituting them for a range of "+\-" modifiers is simpler anyway, then taking away the nonsense level ups like "I put a point in int so that in five levels I can put another point there to gain a +1" is the cherry on the cake as far as I'm concerned.
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Jul 22, 2014 23:55
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Old Dirty Cumburgs posted:Re: 13th Age Deep Magic Great cover art. (The subject matter, though...  Caster supremacy — exactly what this system needs...)
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Jul 23, 2014 01:03
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Nancy_Noxious posted:Great cover art. Casters are supreme though; anyone that plays anything else is a big loser.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:03
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It's a 3rd party supplement. If you don't like it don't use it. Myself I think it sounds badass and can't wait to play a fighter who can use time spells and poo poo.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:20
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-Fish- posted:It's a 3rd party supplement. If you don't like it don't use it. Myself I think it sounds badass and can't wait to play a fighter who can use time spells and poo poo. My thoughts exactly; I'd love to see a similar melee book in the future. Maybe 600 Flexible Attacks that anyone can use with a talent.
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Jul 23, 2014 02:23
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"Those who do not learn history are doomed to bloat it."
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Jul 23, 2014 03:18
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Rhjamiz posted:As usual, it's all Tolkien's fault. The Ranger class of TTRPGs is an amalgamation of Aragorn and Legolas, while Gimli and Boromir represent the archetypical Fighter. Jackard fucked around with this message at 03:40 on Jul 23, 2014 |
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Jul 23, 2014 03:30
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The Ranger has changed in literally every edition. AD&D ranger was a human fighter (yes, human or half-human only) who learned a smattering of druid and wizard spells, a comparatively massive bonus against giants (which were the most common enemy type, including kobolds, goblins, orcs, trolls, and many others), have a chance to just automatically surprise enemies even when casually strolling up to them, a chance to NOT be surprised in an ambush, gains followers that are explicitly better then any other class, and can use They also could specialize in a weapon, but first had to train usage in daggers, spears/axes (choose one), a bow, and some sort of sword. It had to be good aligned, couldn't work with other rangers (because they're all LONE WOLVES), and couldn't own excessive treasure or keep whatever they couldn't carry or put on their horse. And they were not druids. Rangers didn't like the wilderness, they loved civilization - they just protected civilization in and FROM the wilderness. So, you know, literally Aragorn through the D&D lens. Drizzt incidentally wasn't originally a ranger. Remember, Drizzt was written at the very start of the FR push in AD&D. Drizzt used two weapons because UA - which introduced drow characters - sorta allowed drow to do that where no other race could. 2e made the ranger more generic if also more specialized. Now they chose an enemy type as their chosen enemy rather then just ALL THE GIANTS, they lost the weird double HP at level 1, their unique ambush abilities were folded into a small subset of learned thief skills, lost their mage spells and weird "TOTALLY NOT ARAGORN" ability to use 3e changed a ton. As a part of the push for a generic d20 system, racial limitations were all removed, so rangers are no longer human-ish only. 3e dropped the ranger's ability to wear any armor and focused ENTIRELY on light armor. Because of the changes to HP, the ranger healing spells suddenly became hilariously useless, and because of the emphasis on casting stats, the ranger now needed high wisdom to make much use of their spells. Because 3e couldn't stop masturbating to spellcasters furiously, the previous ranger only animal companion was given to druids, and rangers got a lesser version, a revision that has since been hilariously forgotten because 3e sincerely changed MASSIVE amounts of D&D poo poo and got away with it entirely. Rangers could no longer specialize in spear, two weapon, two handed sword, and/or bow training - they could only go for archery or two weapon fighting. In AD&D ,the ranger was probably the most powerful warrior subclass; in 3e, it was maybe one of the weakest. 4e ranger is sort of a weird AD&D meets 3e thing. Still limited to two weapon fighting or archery, the ranger is now the undisputed master of both. Most of the nature loving druid stuff of 2e and 3e was dropped, and the ranger was refocused conceptually back to AD&D's wilderness scout and martial warrior, without the "NOT ARAGORN" trappings. The animal companion was added in a later book but was really mostly awful so nobody used it.
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Jul 23, 2014 05:11
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I'm starting to put together some Weapon Specialization material to pitch for the 13th Age annual/monthly whatever. Obviously it's not done, but it should give you some idea of where I'm headed. I doubt very specific weapon specs like axe, sword, hammer, etc are all that valid for this system, but a "loadout" might be. Thoughts?
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Jul 23, 2014 17:44
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Got distracted from 13th age and the small projects I was working on, but getting the beastiary in the mail dragged me back. Heres an update to some of the stuff I had worked on before: Form-fillable PDFs for easy-read character abilities. Six and eight ability per sheet included. Index card sized form-fillable PDF for character abilities, and DM monster cards for encounters. (Make sure when printing to set your settings to Index Card size!) Let me know if the link is broke, or if something doesn't work.
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Jul 23, 2014 19:00
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So, I love Captain Walker's Seeker but I also love ancient Greece, so I quickly whipped this up as an alternative to Clever Shooter and Treetop Sniper. Thoughts? Nimble Peltast You can hold a shield with no penalty and your melee basic attacks use Dexterity instead of Strength. Spirit Boon: Knock Off Balance. Use this boon when you make a ranged or melee attack. One target you damaged is vulnerable until the end of your next turn. Adventurer Feat: When an enemy misses you with a natural odd roll, you may pop free from it as a free action. Champion Feat: When an enemy hits or misses you with a natural odd roll, you may pop free from it as a free action. Epic Feat: The target of knock off balance is vulnerable (hard save ends).
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Jul 24, 2014 11:01
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Hard save for vulnerable seems a bit much when you can keep doing it.
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Jul 24, 2014 11:11
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djw175 posted:Hard save for vulnerable seems a bit much when you can keep doing it. I had to look it up, but for the Seeker, spirit boons are consumable, like daily spells. You get 2-4 per full heal-up, depending on level. Speaking of classes, I still haven't finished the Wright, but I did have an idea for a melee tank/debuff combatant that everyone should love to hate: the Duelist. Rather than attacking directly like a Fighter, the Duelist uses Boasts, powerful taunts that can affect multiple enemies each turn. Like the Commander and Occultist, they get more action outside of their turns-- when attacked and missed, they use Riposte abilities, some of which are permanent, known as Scars. Scars can be physical, but they are more likely to be mental-- something that bastard said that you just can't get out of your head. Here's the draft: The Duelist I'd especially appreciate any ideas anyone has for Scars, being permanent debuffs, or ideas for how to order the Scars. I'd like the class to be a step simpler than the Fighter and suitable for beginners, so I don't want them to be chosen like powers and my initial thought is to have them available by level, in that you get all of them of your level or lower automatically, but I'm unsure. I might as well toss in my third class idea, though it's very hazy as of yet! The Oracle is, again, somewhat like the Commander or Occultist in that it sees more play outside its own turn. The Oracle's spells and abilities (prophecies? portents?) activate by correctly guessing rolls (perhaps the narrower the range you guess, the more powerful an ability you can use), and a rare few of their abilities allow them to change outcomes entirely. This idea is from before the Occultist, though, and is made a bit redundant by it, so I'm gonna keep thinking of ways to make it unique before I write much more.
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Jul 24, 2014 16:12
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FishFood posted:So, I love Captain Walker's Seeker but I also love ancient Greece, so I quickly whipped this up as an alternative to Clever Shooter and Treetop Sniper. Thoughts? This is meant to model a style of fighting that involves shield+thrown, yeah? Meant to be paired with Bloodbonded Hunter?
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Jul 24, 2014 17:38
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Captain Walker posted:This is meant to model a style of fighting that involves shield+thrown, yeah? Meant to be paired with Bloodbonded Hunter? Obviously it is the shield that is thrown!
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Jul 24, 2014 18:13
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ProfessorCirno posted:4e ranger is sort of a weird AD&D meets 3e thing. Still limited to two weapon fighting or archery, the ranger is now the undisputed master of both. Most of the nature loving druid stuff of 2e and 3e was dropped, and the ranger was refocused conceptually back to AD&D's wilderness scout and martial warrior, without the "NOT ARAGORN" trappings. The animal companion was added in a later book but was really mostly awful so nobody used it. 
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Jul 24, 2014 18:41
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I did a little more work on The Channeller; I think I might be actually approaching this being done (bar playtesting, if any).
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Jul 24, 2014 18:48
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Mr. Maltose posted:Obviously it is the shield that is thrown! 
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Jul 24, 2014 18:50
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Evil Mastermind posted:I did a little more work on The Channeller; I think I might be actually approaching this being done (bar playtesting, if any). I like this! It's a good option for beginner players who want to use some more magical effects. I would recommend adding another feature or two, though-- maybe something that uses a quick action, since the player's standard actions will probably be busy enough choosing which talents to use. Maybe a way to "channel" recoveries into THP or temporary defenses-- a good, risky maneuver that would be a good last resort for any caster. Maybe to change it up from the Barbarian's talent choice system a bit more, and to fit with the idea of channeling energy already nearby, you could add an outside-of-battle feature that allows the Channeler to swap out one of their talents for another of that tier once per day. It'd be interesting and thematically appropriate if the class shifted around a bit more often than every few levels.
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Jul 24, 2014 20:21
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PlasmaMan posted:I like this! It's a good option for beginner players who want to use some more magical effects. I would recommend adding another feature or two, though-- maybe something that uses a quick action, since the player's standard actions will probably be busy enough choosing which talents to use. Maybe a way to "channel" recoveries into THP or temporary defenses-- a good, risky maneuver that would be a good last resort for any caster. quote:Maybe to change it up from the Barbarian's talent choice system a bit more, and to fit with the idea of channeling energy already nearby, you could add an outside-of-battle feature that allows the Channeler to swap out one of their talents for another of that tier once per day. It'd be interesting and thematically appropriate if the class shifted around a bit more often than every few levels.
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Jul 24, 2014 20:34
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Evil Mastermind posted:I do feel like I could do with another feature maybe, and I like that idea; it kind of reinforces the idea that you're just a conduit for roiling energies. In that case, you could also have a small talent that gives a bonus to background checks made to detect energy (perhaps rolling twice to do so, as with the rogue's trap sense), and encourage players to use it to detect enemy spellcasters and clerics, magic items, arcane traps... It may be too complicated for your idea of the class, but perhaps another feature that provides some bonus when the Channeler is hit with an energy attack.
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Jul 24, 2014 20:40
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PlasmaMan posted:In that case, you could also have a small talent that gives a bonus to background checks made to detect energy (perhaps rolling twice to do so, as with the rogue's trap sense), and encourage players to use it to detect enemy spellcasters and clerics, magic items, arcane traps... quote:It may be too complicated for your idea of the class, but perhaps another feature that provides some bonus when the Channeler is hit with an energy attack. e: Also I've decided just now that the class's attack-boosting magic item will be focusing crystals, which can be mounted on wands, gloves, belts, or goggles. Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 24, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 20:48
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Captain Walker posted:This is meant to model a style of fighting that involves shield+thrown, yeah? Meant to be paired with Bloodbonded Hunter? Yeah, like an ancient Greek peltast or even a Viking/Frankish dude with throwing axes. And Bloodbonded Hunter is the obvious choice, yeah. The shield is obviously boomeranged around like Captain America's shield, but only if you dual wield them. FishFood fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 24, 2014 23:12
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Ryven and I are working on several new melee classes. The amount of cackling can be compared to that which happened when we were working on the Lurker.
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Jul 25, 2014 03:02
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RyvenCedrylle posted:I'm starting to put together some Weapon Specialization material to pitch for the 13th Age annual/monthly whatever. Obviously it's not done, but it should give you some idea of where I'm headed. I doubt very specific weapon specs like axe, sword, hammer, etc are all that valid for this system, but a "loadout" might be. Thoughts? I'd like to see an "improvised weapon" specialty, just because there isn't really any fantasy game that makes it a viable option.
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Jul 25, 2014 11:42
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echopapa posted:I'd like to see an "improvised weapon" specialty, just because there isn't really any fantasy game that makes it a viable option. Interesting. I'll think about that. If you look at the class breakdown, 13th Age is basically doing what Dungeon World does in assigning damage dice by class; 13A just obscures it behind flavor text. Can you come up with an idea or two as to how an improvised weapon specialty would behave mechanically? As in, OK, I'm hitting you with a chair instead of a sword but how does that affect the actions I take in combat? What can I do that the standard sword-and-board fighter can't? Maybe some kind of Fighter variant on Terrain Stunt?
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Jul 25, 2014 13:06
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edit: screw it.
Nancy_Noxious fucked around with this message at 16:07 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 14:31
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That seems like it will cause a lot of questions to the DM like "is there a tablecloth on the table? In that case they are stuck and hampered" which doesn't seem like it will add much to the game. In fact I think it takes agency away from the player as they're then dependent on the gm's descriptions. If it's more open, then the player can decide when it applies and build the world accordingly, rather than the gm doing it. improvised fighter feat might give an 'indoor fighting' thing like terrain stunt, or maybe even increased damage as long as it's framed subdual or non-fatal damage, or even just a trap-sense style reroll for certain checks in certain contexts. I dunno, just spitballing
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Jul 25, 2014 15:16
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Get indoor fighting for monk: become Jackie Chan.
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Jul 25, 2014 15:59
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The Book of Loot and Shadows of Edolan are now up for preorder and shipping is set for early August. Is anyone planning on picking these up? I might get the Loot, just because it's loot.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:02
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General Ironicus posted:The Book of Loot and Shadows of Edolan are now up for preorder and shipping is set for early August. Is anyone planning on picking these up? I might get the Loot, just because it's loot. I'm planning on getting both. Looks like you get the PDF right away, too, which is nice.
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Jul 25, 2014 16:37
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General Ironicus posted:The Book of Loot and Shadows of Edolan are now up for preorder and shipping is set for early August. Is anyone planning on picking these up? I might get the Loot, just because it's loot. Ooh, thanks for the heads up! I just pre-ordered both and downloaded the PDFs. While it's mildly disappointing to see them in B&W, it's not unlike the majority of Pelgrane's line—the run of three sequential full colour books has spoiled me a little. I've only had a very quick skim as it's far too late for my brain to absorb any of their contents, but they do look good.
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Jul 25, 2014 17:08
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Danoss posted:While it's mildly disappointing to see them in B&W, it's not unlike the majority of Pelgrane's line—the run of three sequential full colour books has spoiled me a little. I've only had a very quick skim as it's far too late for my brain to absorb any of their contents, but they do look good. I don't mind B&W myself as long as the page background texture is adjusted to take that into account (which they've done). I have "Make Your Own Luck" and it looks perfectly fine as B&W. e: quote:Unforgivable Puns Evil Mastermind fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jul 25, 2014 |
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Jul 25, 2014 17:22
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RyvenCedrylle posted:Interesting. I'll think about that. If you look at the class breakdown, 13th Age is basically doing what Dungeon World does in assigning damage dice by class; 13A just obscures it behind flavor text. Possibly. Another thought is that, per the rule book, Mental Defense covers how "smart, insightful, and forceful you are." Because an improvised weapon fighter is using unexpected weapons to confuse her opponents, maybe the improvised weapons fighter should get an attack or two that targets Mental Defense. Edit: now that I think about it, 13A has lots of opportunities for players and GMs to improvise, like with the rogue's Swashbuckle or the wizard's Vance's Polysyllabic Verbalizations. An improvised weapon fighter might just get the opportunity to explain to the GM what effect he wants his improvised weapon to have, and let the GM rule on it. Maybe breaking a bottle over an orc's head would stun him. Maybe flinging a caber at the lich would create a temporary positive relationship with the High Druid. echopapa fucked around with this message at 09:43 on Jul 26, 2014 |
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Jul 26, 2014 00:06
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